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Logic 8 is out ... what now Digi ? Audio Interfaces
Old 26th September 2007
  #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gravityminor View Post
hate digi if you want... but they are only concerned with 2 industries (on the whole) music and film. apple does not give a sh*t about you or your industry.
Don't kid yourself, Digi doesn't care about you either. They care about the same thing any public corporation cares about; making a profit. If they cared about users why haven't they implemented ADC and unlimited track count in PTLE? People have been requesting that for years now. And why do they lock you into their hardware on both HD and LE systems?

They walk the same line Apple does between giving people what they want and making as much profit as possible. Every corporation does.
Old 27th September 2007
  #122
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by scking View Post
Don't kid yourself, Digi doesn't care about you either. They care about the same thing any public corporation cares about; making a profit. If they cared about users why haven't they implemented ADC and unlimited track count in PTLE? People have been requesting that for years now. And why do they lock you into their hardware on both HD and LE systems?

They walk the same line Apple does between giving people what they want and making as much profit as possible. Every corporation does.
I didn't think he was saying that Digi cared about you, but rather that Digi cares about your industry, because their business is to a large extent dependent on that industry (digital audio).
Whereas Apple cares about hardware in a much broader sense, and seems to be focused more and more on consumer electronics. They would certainly never wait 3 years between refreshes of the iphone, like they did between Logic 7 and Logic 8.
On the other hand, the fact that audio software is so clearly not Apple's main business means that they can basically give away their audio software, and subsidize it with all of the hardware they sell, which means that those of us who are already tied into the mac world can get some pretty decent and very cheap audio software, Logic 8.
But to get back to that "industry" that Digi cares about; the sad reality seems to be that it's kind of falling apart. Which is not to say that there's not great stuff happening, people making records, people making money, but just to say that the old model is changing fast. I find it exciting, and interesting. I'm sure there are some software developers out there who feel the same way. It'll be interesting to see where the future leads us, with or without Digi.
Old 27th September 2007
  #123
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T_R_S's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by scking View Post
why haven't they implemented ADC and unlimited track count in PTLE?.
ADC and higher track counts are features not availbale in Digidesign's entry level LE systems. Even HD does not have unlimited track counts. They have someting much better - guaranteed track counts.
If you want those features you have 2 choices buy HD or go with something different.
All things in life are not perfect.

Quote:
Originally Posted by scking View Post
And why do they lock you into their hardware on both HD and LE systems?
Digidesign is a hardware company just like Apple if you want OSX you need an Apple Computer if you want Protools you need to buy Digidesign hardware.
Why? Stability - less problems with hardware and driver conflicts, cheaper to program,
both companies can spend valuable resources on building new features instead of bug fixes for hardware conflicts.


Quote:
Originally Posted by scking View Post
They walk the same line Apple does between giving people what they want and making as much profit as possible. Every corporation does.
Right ... we have a free market based ecomomy, like anything if you you don't like Ford then buy a different car.
Old 27th September 2007
  #124
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gravityminor's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by scking View Post
Don't kid yourself, Digi doesn't care about you either. They care about the same thing any public corporation cares about; making a profit. If they cared about users why haven't they implemented ADC and unlimited track count in PTLE? People have been requesting that for years now. And why do they lock you into their hardware on both HD and LE systems?

They walk the same line Apple does between giving people what they want and making as much profit as possible. Every corporation does.
Thanks Polly. My sentiments exactly. I think, with the release of The Ocho, all of the talk has gotten to me.

The two companies have corporate agendas, of course.

Unlike Apple, Digi's not trying to market to everyone between the ages of 6-85 that have eyes, ears, and a nose. The closest they've come to those mass marketing ideas was to release the digi 001, and all subsequent le systems, aimed at everyone with a Strat Pack and a Hosa cable. Oh wait, I guess they are.

All kidding aside, we need the competition. We need need companies that need us. Apple does NOT need us.
Old 27th September 2007
  #125
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nativeaudio's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by T_R_S View Post

Digidesign is a hardware company just like Apple if you want OSX you need an Apple Computer if you want Protools you need to buy Digidesign hardware.
There are a few differences. One can't really blame Apple for making products that need an Apple computer, because that's what they're doing in the computer market: making computers and software that works with their computers. Apple is making Logic, and Logic can be used with interfaces from MoTu, Metric Halo, Digidesign, Apogee ad a bunch of other manufacturers. They are putting effort into being compatible with Pro Tools users.

Digidesign, on the other hand, are making both a TDM and a native version of Pro Tools, and while the TDM-version of Pro Tools only works with their TDM hardware - for obvious reasons, PTLE is more or less the only Mac DAW that only works with their own hardware. Steinberg and MoTu support CoreAudio, Emagic supported CoreAudio before Apple acquired Emagic, but Digidesign decided not to open up the native version of PT for use with other than their own hardware.

This isn't because the native version of PT is performing so well that they need some level of exclusiveness to ensure that they can stay ahead of the competition by focusing on their own hardware only. On the contrary, Digidesign's exclusivity in the native market is associated with less than ideal drivers and a software with limitations other native DAWs don't have. It looks like an attempt to push more Digidesign hardware.

They don't avoid support for the AudioUnit format because they can't, but because they won't. Maybe this will change some day - if they want to recruit potential users from other DAWs - users who already have spent cash on buying AU plugins and non-Digidesign hardware - they may have to open up.

And who knows, maybe Apple one day will release Logic for Windows now when Apple basically is an Intel-based company - or OSX for non-Apple intel computers. One reason they haven't done that already may be that they want to sell their own computers, another one may be that it's easier to produce and develop software when focusing on their own platform only. The same is of course true for Digidesign, but it would require a lot less effort on Digidesign's hand to add general support for CoreAudio-compatible interfaces (read: almost all but Digidesign's interfaces) than it would for Apple to produce a Windows version of Logic.
Old 27th September 2007
  #126
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by T_R_S View Post
Right ... we have a free market based ecomomy, like anything if you you don't like Ford then buy a different car.
Unless in Australia of course where the attitude is, "If you don't buy our locally manufactured POS cars we will heavily tax every imported car to make them so ridiculously expensive that you really have no choice!!"

What is free about that?
Old 27th September 2007
  #127
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Volodia's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by nativeaudio View Post
They don't avoid support for the AudioUnit format because they can't, but because they won't. Maybe this will change some day - if they want to recruit potential users from other DAWs - users who already have spent cash on buying AU plugins and non-Digidesign hardware - they may have to open up.
.
Does Steinberg suppor AU . Does Logic support RTAS . They all have their own system

why do you blame only Digi ? Most Native Plugins don't charge you for another native

version (RTAS , VST , AU) so people who bought the plugins can use them on every

platform .
Old 27th September 2007
  #128
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noiseflaw's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fredrik View Post
Tech support is covered by apple care AFAIK.

Edit:Apple - Support - AppleCare Professional Audio Support
Yes but how much is it?...

I remember when it was included for free, but then in those days the app and add on instruments cost mucho dollarzo!

Hey ho.
Old 28th September 2007
  #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drayon View Post
Unless in Australia of course where the attitude is, "If you don't buy our locally manufactured POS cars we will heavily tax every imported car to make them so ridiculously expensive that you really have no choice!!"

What is free about that?
It used to be like that but when I last checked the Tax on a imported car in Australia is 5% in a couple of years there will be on none.
Old 28th September 2007
  #130
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T_R_S's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drayon View Post
Unless in Australia of course where the attitude is, "If you don't buy our locally manufactured POS cars we will heavily tax every imported car to make them so ridiculously expensive that you really have no choice!!"

What is free about that?
Well in Canada they sort of do they same thing they put heavy import duites on foriegn cars then Ford GM and Chrysler jack up the prices to match the expensive imported cars.
In Europe what costs $25K the same car here is over $35k. (I am comparing coverted Can $$$)
Old 28th September 2007
  #131
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Rufuss Sewell's Avatar
Can the people of Australia and Canada vote for representatives who will lower import taxes? If so then that's about as free as it gets. As a Libertarian who once ran for California senate I find that most people today are quite offended by the concept of lowering taxes. I personally believe that the IRS should be abolished blah blah blah... but that is a very unpopular idea.

So as far as I can tell, the people of Australia have spoken and a majority of them want imported cars to have huge tax piled on to the price tag. Go figure.
Old 28th September 2007
  #132
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composer's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by scking View Post
Don't kid yourself, Digi doesn't care about you either. They care about the same thing any public corporation cares about; making a profit. If they cared about users why haven't they implemented ADC and unlimited track count in PTLE? People have been requesting that for years now. And why do they lock you into their hardware on both HD and LE systems?

They walk the same line Apple does between giving people what they want and making as much profit as possible. Every corporation does.
Isn't that the truth and they then force you to buy digi translator and DV kit to do any serious tv work - film is out unless its not surround.

New CPU's coming, 32 cores - DIGI knows full well that a LE system could be native and offer many tracks, surround, dv toolkit (all have timecode now except LE)....

The only positive thing I have heard about digi is that STRIKE is supposed to be very realistic and inspiring. Having used BFD, EZ, Addictive, Groove Agent, I wonder how true that is.....I did see MAUDIO LE posted online and could get a cheapo box to see, but why bother throwing $300 out the door if its not that good.

I think its a matter of time, I really do, as I know a lot of pro's that do work with LE at home off of laptops or older G5's and are really frustrated. They always seem to talk about Nuendo as the replacement though, not logic, at least not yet.
Old 1st October 2007
  #133
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Jake 2.0's Avatar
I kinda like the interface and the look of logic 7 a bit more so far but ive only messed with L8 for an hour so only time will tell. For a second it reminded of DP, pro tools kills.you cant "beat" pun intended beat detective
Old 4th October 2007
  #134
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I've been a PTLE user for over 5 years. I started with PT Free, and learned PT in film school.

All I can say is that I love Logic 8, and I'm remixing all my songs in it. I had tried Logic a few years ago, and couldn't get in to it because of the interface. The new interface is brilliant. I love the channel strip presets as starting off points. This is the first time I can say I'm totally happy with how my mixes are turning out. Combine Logic 8 with the new Reason 4 which integrates seamlessly, and I've been in music heaven for the last week.

Even not having some of my PT plugins doesn't bother me at all, since there's so many bundled plugins and great presets. Apple seriously raised the bar.

To me it feels like the crippled PTLE exists only to pressure you into buying a more expensive PT rig. On the other hand, Logic to me feels like it exists to make killer mixes, and help you achieve that quickly, without getting caught up in the technical aspects.

If my experience is indicative of other PTLE users who switch to Logic, than Digi should be worried.

O.T. Can anybody recommend me a good mic for smooth female vocals? Something in 300-500$ range that isn't harsh sounding.
Old 11th October 2007
  #135
Here for the gear
 

sorry to go a litle out of topic, but....

am I the only one that thinks that Logic sounds better than PT-LE? I don't have L8 yet, but as a owner of both L7 and PTLE7 (002R) I think Logic simply sounds better. Better engine or whatever but I just hear it way different, more headroom and detailed.

This week I just got a project that I'm mixing that was recorded with an HD system @ 96khz, and just to compare and decide we threw all the tracks into PTLE and L7 and did a pretty much exact rough mix (no plugs) and man L7 just shimmers compared to PT!! (imo). That plus the fact that I can plug my MacBook running the Logic Node to have more DSP available for mixing made the choice instant: we're mixing in L7.

By the way I was running both PT and L7 out of the exact same 002r running at 24bit 96k.

Not to bash PT, I hate tracking in L7, but in PT is a breeze... in L7 it takes forever to do all the waveform calculations, hope they fixed that in L8. As well as audio editing was terrible in L7. But I love the way Logic sounds, plus you get SpaceDesigner plus all the VI's plus surround plus ...

whatever, both are great at what they do and I think both will still be in my studio in a couple of years to come, a 003r (1200)+apogee rosetta 800(2700)+L8 (500)=$4.400 and you get a great sounding system that runs PT+L8 and that is way more versatile than an HD system. To me it sounds like a way better deal than cashing 10.000 for the HD1+96io

both will share the 'industry standards' title soon. L8 will do to studios what FinalCut did to editing houses a couple of years ago. sort of the avid vs finalcut thing once again, and same companies.

any way, i better stop now.

enjoy L8 guys!
Old 11th October 2007
  #136
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macgee's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by pichu View Post
both will share the 'industry standards' title soon. L8 will do to studios what FinalCut did to editing houses a couple of years ago. sort of the avid vs finalcut thing once again, and same companies.

any way, i better stop now.

enjoy L8 guys!
i don't think logic deserves the title of 'industry standard for logic', they've got a lot of work to do on logic 8 and still loads of bugs from version 6. i'm so peed off with logic at the moment, here's my current frustration
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/logic...nightmare.html

i've been using logic since version 6 and know it very well but pro tools still takes the cake with regards to editing!

as long as these logic issues remain, pro tools has and deserves the title of INDUSTRY STANDARD
Old 11th October 2007
  #137
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Rufuss Sewell's Avatar
I have to agree that the elastic audio in PT 7.4 destroys Logic in the drum editing department. It what I was really hoping would be in Logic 8. But that's ok, because I have PT 7.3 and WILL be upgrading.
Old 13th October 2007
  #138
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T_R_S's Avatar
Yes I have to agree on the Digi raising the bar with Elastic Audio for drum editing.
It 'kinda' like beat detective for dummies as it makes editing drums a lot faster and easier. No more fade files, no more sessions with 30,000 edits stike
Old 13th October 2007
  #139
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Having watched that 18 min demo, there is nothing in there that is not exactly copied from live. AFAIK it´s all done thru time streching as opposed to cutting an moving. Time strech always has a sound, cut and move doesn´t.
Old 13th October 2007
  #140
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gio.vanni's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by T_R_S View Post
Why? Stability - less problems with hardware and driver conflicts, cheaper to program, both companies can spend valuable resources on building new features instead of bug fixes for hardware conflicts.
Then why are the converters such **** in their LE products if your still paying top dollar? $2grand for ****ty converters and a control surface aren't exactly bargain prices.
Old 13th October 2007
  #141
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbaby987 View Post
i've heard that digi will probably come out with a stronger core and accel card. this would be the best route to me.. especially since i just picked up my hd system this spring...
so we have to pay thousand of euros to upgrade... it's crazy. Mac Pro 8 core or even multi-8 core systems "noded" with Logic are cheaper and with more processing power. and remember that the best way to do music is to record real instruments with real outboards (we work like this) so to much power is useless. better converters are the way, IMHO
Old 13th October 2007
  #142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SUPADUPA View Post
I'm waiting three months ....

if PT HD Lite does'nt come out ...

with unlimited tracks , ADC , and a kick ass audio interface ...

I'm buying into an Apple / Apogee system ....

as I think many of us here may well do ...

Come on Digi ... prove me wrong ....
i'm going to do it in these days, selling al PTHD system with Mac and a lot of stuff...

this is evolution
Old 16th October 2007
  #143
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T_R_S's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by gio.vanni View Post
Then why are the converters such **** in their LE products if your still paying top dollar? $2grand for ****ty converters and a control surface aren't exactly bargain prices.
You don't have to use stock convertors, 2K??? too much?
My Studer A80 cost almost $100k when it was new,
a Sony Dash 48 tracks were over $250K in the 80's.
Now they're worth almost nothing.
Old 16th October 2007
  #144
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gio.vanni's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by T_R_S View Post
You don't have to use stock convertors, 2K??? too much?
My Studer A80 cost almost $100k when it was new,
a Sony Dash 48 tracks were over $250K in the 80's.
Now they're worth almost nothing.
But for $2000 I can buy an Apogee Ensemble that will smash the 002 in it's face, beat it's brother up and steal it's girl all in one shot.
Old 16th October 2007
  #145
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intolerance's Avatar
 

A word of caution.

Before jumping the gun and pulling the trigger on Logic8, use it for a few days first! If you're working mainly in audio, be prepared to start pulling your hair out. Sure, It looks nice, the partnership with apogee's attractive, nice aesthetics, and some great plug-ins, BUT, when it comes down to ACTUAL WORK, I personally find L8 horrifically buggy and cumbersome, and plain sluggish down to the smallest details that should have been worked out 5 versions ago. Just a word of caution before buying this new shinny application wrapped in sexy Apple packaging. I'm personally HAPPILY back to Nuendo, and my productivity has exponentially improved. "If it ant' broke". User error? Naw, and I don't miss the pinwheel either!

Please, do your self a favor and ACTUALLY USE THE PROGRAM before betting the farm.
Old 16th October 2007
  #146
JPZ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by intolerance View Post
Before jumping the gun and pulling the trigger on Logic8, use it for a few days first! If you're working mainly in audio, be prepared to start pulling your hair out. Sure, It looks nice, the partnership with apogee's attractive, nice aesthetics, and some great plug-ins, BUT, when it comes down to ACTUAL WORK, I personally find L8 horrifically buggy and cumbersome, and plain sluggish down to the smallest details that should have been worked out 5 versions ago. Just a word of caution before buying this new shinny application wrapped in sexy Apple packaging. I'm personally HAPPILY back to Nuendo, and my productivity has exponentially improved. "If it ant' broke". User error? Naw, and I don't miss the pinwheel either!

Please, do your self a favor and ACTUALLY USE THE PROGRAM before betting the farm.
True to some extent but at $499 that's a mighty small farm to bet
Old 17th October 2007
  #147
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intolerance's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JPZ View Post
True to some extent but at $499 that's a mighty small farm to bet
Oh you know what I mean. Point taken, but it's still $499, and that's still a lot of money to a lot of people. And lets also include the value of ones time.
Old 17th October 2007
  #148
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barryjohns's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by intolerance View Post
Before jumping the gun and pulling the trigger on Logic8, use it for a few days first! If you're working mainly in audio, be prepared to start pulling your hair out. Sure, It looks nice, the partnership with apogee's attractive, nice aesthetics, and some great plug-ins, BUT, when it comes down to ACTUAL WORK, I personally find L8 horrifically buggy and cumbersome, and plain sluggish down to the smallest details that should have been worked out 5 versions ago. Just a word of caution before buying this new shinny application wrapped in sexy Apple packaging. I'm personally HAPPILY back to Nuendo, and my productivity has exponentially improved. "If it ant' broke". User error? Naw, and I don't miss the pinwheel either!

Please, do your self a favor and ACTUALLY USE THE PROGRAM before betting the farm.
I think you take the plunge regardless. The complete package is nothing short of amazing. Time will work out the issues.

Now, that being said. I would not put my eggs in this basket on a pro level. No way. Go to Apple's Logic 8 forum as well as Sonikmater for Logic 8 and you will read about a TON of issues with Logic 8.

I have Protools HD, so not a single thought of me making any kind of switch. However, I dig Logic 8 and have no pressure of any kind when I'm in it. Just bought an Apogee Duet today, actually, gets here in 6 days, just so I can track a few things that I may get started using the Virtual Synths in Logic that will eventually find its way over to Protools HD.

If this is for your personal use at your home, get up right now and go buy it, simple as that. What you get for 500.00 is nothing short of amazing. Logic 8 will dominate the home project studio, very, very smart on Apple’s part. They will sell a lot of Mac’s this way.
Old 17th October 2007
  #149
JPZ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barryjohns View Post
Now, that being said. I would not put my eggs in this basket on a pro level. No way.
Odd, I use it on a pro level everyday and nobody is complaining.
Old 17th October 2007
  #150
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by barryjohns View Post
I think you take the plunge regardless. The complete package is nothing short of amazing. Time will work out the issues.

Now, that being said. I would not put my eggs in this basket on a pro level. No way. Go to Apple's Logic 8 forum as well as Sonikmater for Logic 8 and you will read about a TON of issues with Logic 8.

I have Protools HD, so not a single thought of me making any kind of switch. However, I dig Logic 8 and have no pressure of any kind when I'm in it. Just bought an Apogee Duet today, actually, gets here in 6 days, just so I can track a few things that I may get started using the Virtual Synths in Logic that will eventually find its way over to Protools HD.

If this is for your personal use at your home, get up right now and go buy it, simple as that. What you get for 500.00 is nothing short of amazing. Logic 8 will dominate the home project studio, very, very smart on Apple’s part. They will sell a lot of Mac’s this way.
I own pro tools HD too. so do you think that switching to a mac pro 8 core with a rack fullfilled by Apogees AD-16X and DA-16X plus a Prism ADA-8, a new side console by SSL and a bunch of GMLs, Millennia, TubeTech, APIs outboards means to NOT be in a pro level?

I think that the pro level is set by converters, outboards, mic, producer's knowledge. not the DAW. The old PT DAW. this is evolution
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