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LOGIC 8 HERE IT IS!!!!
Old 16th September 2007
  #571
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Sure but you get my point I guess. Tony asked for a native system that was able to do 24 i/o´s at 96khz, it was a reply to that.
Old 16th September 2007
  #572
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best post of the thread!

Quote:
Originally Posted by flexoffset View Post
Just for grins, I though't I'd finally take the effort to max out Logic on my computer.

42 Space Designers :D
3 Reaktor 5 Massives
1 Reaktor 5 Kaleidon
some audio loops,
ES2

Activity monitor was showing 200% CPU usage.
Strangely, core 6 & 7 never lit up on the Logic "System Performance" window. Core 8 was nearly max'd out.
Not a single glitch the whole time --- smooth as glass -- but it all sounded like crap. :D

(44.1KHz, stereo, 256sample buffer)
8-Core MacPro | OS X 10.4.10 | Logic 8

Old 16th September 2007
  #573
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fredrik View Post
Sure but you get my point I guess. Tony asked for a native system that was able to do 24 i/o´s at 96khz, it was a reply to that.
Oh, I missed that. PTHD would still probably have lower latency than Logic 8 with software monitoring on, but the differences would be within the range that doesn't really matter, like 0.5 milliseconds or so as long as the 32 buffer was used. Most people who work in PTHD are happy with the circa 2.4 ms latency they have, and working in 96kHz, the latency would be lower as long as you can stick to the 32 buffer. The problem is that as soon as you change your buffer setting in a Symphony setup, the latency will gradually increase from the very good 1.6 ms to latencies that will be audible (if software monitoring is used). My guess would be that you'd get a real latency of circa 7-8 ms when using the 128 buffer and circa 5 ms when using the 64 buffer (both at 44.1), and 3-4 ms (128 buffer) and just above 2 ms (64 buffer) when working in 96 kHz. WHile 2-3 or even 4 ms may not be a real problem for most people, 7-8 ms is definitely audible.

The dilemma is that when you're working in 96kHz, your Mac is reaching the point where the processors are struggling twice as fast, because there's twice as much data to process.

This means that you need to increase the buffer settings earlier than when you work in 44.1. That's where the option to monitor directly (in Logic) comes handy in. That way of working may only suit those who don't use inserts on tracks that are being recorded, but it's a simple way to save a few thousand dollars for the rest of us!
Old 16th September 2007
  #574
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony Shepperd View Post
7.1 finally introduced some pan law options, letting you choose between 0dB, -3dB, and -3dB Compensated. You'll the option under File -> Song Settings -> Audio.

The -3dB and -3dB Compensated algorithms actually reduce the level of a signal when it's in the centre (or increases the level when it's fully panned), so the centre doesn't appear louder.

These two settings are effectively the same apart from a 3dB volume adjustment:
-3dB setting: Left 0dB, Centre -3dB, Right 0dB
-3dB compensated setting: Left +3dB, Centre 0dB, Right +3dB

-3dB: Reduces a signal by 3dB when panned to the centre
-3dB comp: Increases the level of a signal by 3dB when panned fully to the left or right.
Hey Tony,
It's obvious from your post that you never used the Direction Mixer or Spread Plug Ins.

While the Direction Mixer is going to throw someone from a traditional 'grab the pan knob and twist' background, it allows you to go far beyond the pan 'laws' you are describing above.

Spread basically allows you to do frequency based stereo imaging-so cool!

I'm quite comfortable on PTHD by the way and benefit from being able to work in multiple DAW's. While stereo imaging is approached differently in Logic, it is by no means limited to the method you described above.

Cheers!
Old 16th September 2007
  #575
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YUGA View Post
Bounced the above test project using LP 8 and 7.
Do you hear any difference?
A is Logic Pro 7
B is Logic Pro 8

I'm surprised everyone seems to prefer A...
I thought B sounded better but maybe that's because I knew which is which LOL.
Old 16th September 2007
  #576
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazzpunk View Post
While stereo imaging is approached differently in Logic, it is by no means limited to the method you described above.
I agree, you can make Logic sound as wide as you like. It's all about who operates it and what tricks you have up your sleeve.

FWIW, extreme panning in PT isn't that 'wide' either, you'll also have to do more if you want to be 'as wide as commercial records'.

I think it's more a matter of preference. Tony obviously prefers PT HD, and there's nothing wrong with that. Just like I prefer mixing in Logic. Why? Cuz i'm feeling more comfortable there and can get the result I want faster. But I'm sure I could deliver a good mix with PT HD as well, it just might cost me more time.
Old 16th September 2007
  #577
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nativeaudio View Post
This means that you need to increase the buffer settings earlier than when you work in 44.1. That's where the option to monitor directly (in Logic) comes handy in. That way of working may only suit those who don't use inserts on tracks that are being recorded, but it's a simple way to save a few thousand dollars for the rest of us!
Indeed, but it would be interesting to see the possibilities with a 8core mac and a 32 sample buffer. There might be a 16 core option not to far from now as well getting the 8cores down in price. The future looks bright for native IMO.

Personally I think something like the xsum looks sweet since it will give true zero latency
as a result of an insert (between the DA and xsum) and also has a secondary buss apart from the main out that could be used to reprint the inserts.
Old 16th September 2007
  #578
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony Shepperd View Post
.......... (snip)....

6. The tech support is a huge issue. I know people who have switched because of the tech support.
Composers who have tight deadlines and can't get the help they need, when they need it.
When you can't get someone on the phone and money is on the line, it changes your perspective about a company.

I don't mean to put Logic down it is a professional app, but past the composing stage, mixing is not quite as elegant as Pro Tools.
IMO there are fewer items for Digi to get right to be the best all round DAW than Logic.
Clearly YMMV.
yeah - the support issue is indeed HUGE!!! I totally agree

and - yes - in terms of editing and mixing, Logic 7 is light years behind the power, elegance and many options that ProTools provides for us power users....

Yes - they may have fixed many things in Logic 8, and that is great.... but it remains to be seen how much closer Logic 8 is to ProTools....

as one example:
region grouping? nope

i dont need region grouping, but when I do... man, it is a lifesaver!

in terms of editing: you name me one professional Hollywood feature film music editor who uses Logic.......

Old 16th September 2007
  #579
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamwerks View Post
Logic should be 64 bits with the next OS if I'm not mistaken. That said I'm not sure how much better that wiil really be over 48 fixed.
There is so much FUD about the "64-bit myth" it would be funny if it wasn't so damn frustrating. It is mind boggling how intelligent people who generally do a fair amount of research buy into this "a 64-bit application is better...because it's more bits..."

Please trust me that you do not want Logic to be a 100% 64-bit application:
a) by having to fill 64-bit memory addresses for the GUI instead of 32-bit, the GUI would run at half-speed.

b) by having to fill 64-bit memory addresses for each audio track, it would cut your track count in half.

c) every single one of your third party plug-ins would need to be rewritten to pass 64-bits to the host application. This means, in practical terms, the same insanity as accompanied the transition to universal binary plug-ins...which in some cases, still isn't finished!

On the other hand, there are two places in which you do want 64-bit math to be used:
1) You want the sampler (EXS24mkII) to be able to access 64-bit memory addresses, so you can access over 4GB RAM for large sample libraries.

2) You want the audio engine to use 64-bit precision math where it would be sonically beneficial.

Guess what?
1) The audio engine of the EXSmkII can access the 64-bit memory address space. This means that in Logic 8, you can access more than 4GB of RAM if your computer is loaded with 8GB or more RAM. Moreover, I have been told that 3rd parties who choose to compile their AU sample players with separate audio engines that can access the 64-bit memory address space can do the same thing. In other words, it would be possible for Native Instruments to compile an AU of Kontakt that could also access more than 4GB of RAM inside Logic 8. Now, nobody has done this yet, and I'm sure it's a very complicated rewrite. But it can be done. And it can be done.

2) The audio engine of Logic 8 does use 64-bit precision where it would be sonically beneficial.

This is why the Apple website says in the tech specs that Logic 8 is "64-bit where appropriate." Logic is a hybrid 32-bit app with 64-bit audio engine "components" that give the program the best of both worlds.

When you put aside the marketing hype, that's all the 64-bit that counts, and will improve your music and music making.

Orren
Old 16th September 2007
  #580
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Firefox View Post
in terms of editing: you name me one professional Hollywood feature film music editor who uses Logic.......
A better question; In terms of composing, how many professional Hollywood feature film composers do you know that use Pro Tools?

(By the way, guys who've made union as music editors are the luckiest bastards around. I can't believe the rates you can get for such a cake job but hey, that's Hollywood!)
Old 16th September 2007
  #581
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Tony Shepperd's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazzpunk View Post
Hey Tony,
It's obvious from your post that you never used the Direction Mixer or Spread Plug Ins.

While the Direction Mixer is going to throw someone from a traditional 'grab the pan knob and twist' background, it allows you to go far beyond the pan 'laws' you are describing above.

Spread basically allows you to do frequency based stereo imaging-so cool!

I'm quite comfortable on PTHD by the way and benefit from being able to work in multiple DAW's. While stereo imaging is approached differently in Logic, it is by no means limited to the method you described above.

Cheers!
That's not my description.
That was pulled directly off a Logic Quick Tips website.
http://logicquicktips.blogspot.com/2...ws-of-pan.html
Old 16th September 2007
  #582
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony Shepperd View Post
That's not my description.
That was pulled directly off a Logic Quick Tips website.
Logic QuickTips: The Laws of the Pan
Well you can change it so whats the big deal?

Just make it your autoload
Old 16th September 2007
  #583
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Jazzpunk's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fredrik View Post
Well you can change it so whats the big deal?
You actually need to use the Direction Mixer plug to get around what Tony is describing. Doesn't bother me but I can see why it would not appeal to others.
Old 16th September 2007
  #584
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazzpunk View Post
You actually need to use the Direction Mixer plug to get around what Tony is describing. Doesn't bother me but I can see why it would not appeal to others.
What was described in the link can be changed in logic, the link is describing how. Or am I missing something?
Old 16th September 2007
  #585
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I didn't know that about Fergie's song...very cool.
ALSO...MuteMath's album was mixed completely in Logic. That album is incredibly cool sounding and vibey.
Old 16th September 2007
  #586
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Jazzpunk's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony Shepperd View Post
But there are so many things on the plus side of Pro Tools for professionals. If you are a weekend warrior, playing around with Logic is cool for $500.
I remember when the 'weekend warrior' tag was aimed at those embracing Pro Tools while tape was still king!

Paradigm shifts are always interesting.
Old 16th September 2007
  #587
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony Shepperd View Post
Native, you completely had no comment about the first one.
Check this website out from Logic Quick Tips.
Logic QuickTips: The Laws of the Pan
[I]If you haven't explicitly set a Pan Law in Logic, then I *strongly* urge you to try this one out.

A pan law is the algorithm a DAW uses to pan an audio signal between the left and right outputs.

By default, Logic uses a 0dB pan law. If you've been using Logic prior to 7.1, you will have been using a 0dB pan law in all your mixes, as it's the only pan law Logic had.

With a 0dB pan law, Logic does not change the signal level when you pan a signal, which means that when a signal is dead centre, it is actually louder than when it is at the extreme left or right.
Hey Tony, is that how PT works with the pan law? Just curious. I wonder how DP does it.
Old 16th September 2007
  #588
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The pan laws is more about what you are used to, you will adjust the levels of your faders accordingly.
Old 16th September 2007
  #589
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazzpunk View Post
I remember when the 'weekend warrior' tag was aimed at those embracing Pro Tools while tape was still king!

Paradigm shifts are always interesting.
Talk about paradigm shifts: I remember living in Detroit while Ted Nugent's song and album titled "Weekend Warriors" was actually considered cool by a substantial number of people!
Old 16th September 2007
  #590
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DrDeltaM's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fredrik View Post
The pan laws is more about what you are used to, you will adjust the levels of your faders accordingly.
Correct, no matter what panlaw you use, full right or full left is ONLY left or ONLY right playing. Sure, in some panlaws it doesn't add 3dB to the signal gradually when panning towards the 'one channel only' extreme L or R panning. But you compensate as mix engineer with the fader.

In short: panlaw does NOT make things wider or smaller, it's just about a small volume difference with which you can do what you want in any case.
Old 16th September 2007
  #591
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony Shepperd View Post
I think for me to switch back to Logic would require a lot more than the items on your list.
The control service is not really an issue for me.

For me to even think about switching I would need:
1. Full Automatic Delay Compensation throughout the entire systems (aux, I/O...)

2. A multi-channel interface with absolutely NO hint of latency for tracking at least 24 tracks at a time while have a completed mix with all of my plugins running.

3. Plugins from the same variety of manufacturers that I have now. Not just plugins from Logic/Apple.

4. A better sounding engine than the 32 bit floating point.

5. Fix their pan laws so the left right perspective didn't feel like the sonic walls are closing in on my mix.

6. And this is really important...
good old fashioned tech support like Logic Audio used to have. You have a problem, you can get a knowledgeable person on the phone within minutes.

Those are at least my basics for even thinking about switching.
I haven't even gotten into the logistics of the GUI.

Except for the comping feature (which I really like) all the other "new" features of Logic 8 (Simplified Setup, Effortless multitake recording, New audio editing tools, Surround mixing and processing) have been in Pro Tools for at least the past 2 years. Somethings like playlist go back even further than that.

And yes Pro Tools is more expensive, NO QUESTION.
Do I wish it were a lower cost, YES!

But there are so many things on the plus side of Pro Tools for professionals.
If you are a weekend warrior, playing around with Logic is cool for $500.

But getting tech support on the phone to work out a problem in the middle of a tracking session, when you have 10 musicians and tens of thousand of dollars on the line... That's priceless!

gotta say tony pthd yer great and all that ,but it is totally useless when your trying to compose its like trying to paint your hallway through a letter box, pt is a mix thing and thats it .most of us composers can't stand it, when your working to a dead line (and i always am)you don't have time to flit between apps its compose, mix, bounce and off down the net it goes. lp8 is a great app that whole "a mix sounds better in pt " i don't buy into, its all about how you approach a mix! 3rd party plugs are really cool now i can bang out a tune in 45 mins mixed done! when you've gotta do 50 tracks 4 mtv usa composing and mixing at speed is not a reality in pt .The average punter who is watching tv isn't sitting there going "hmm i wonder if he mixed that tune in pt or lp8 ? " i've got mac-apogee ensemble-logic 8
it wont be long before native really does catch up with the pt boys think all that expensive stuff will lose its value !!! ps apogee converters ROCK
Old 16th September 2007
  #592
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gussyg2007 View Post
it wont be long before native really does catch up with the pt boys think all that expensive stuff will lose its value !!! ps apogee converters ROCK
Like I said, paradigm's shifting. That's just the nature of technology. Anyone been shopping for a Studer lately?!
Old 16th September 2007
  #593
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Ok, I'll take a bite too, just for clarification:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony Shepperd View Post
I think for me to switch back to Logic would require a lot more than the items on your list.
The control service is not really an issue for me.

For me to even think about switching I would need:
1. Full Automatic Delay Compensation throughout the entire systems (aux, I/O...)
Is there. Only difference with ProTools, is that in PTHD you have to manually shift tracks one sample to get best latency compensation on outboard loops, while on Logic you insert a Latency Fixer plugin.

Kinda the same imo.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony Shepperd View Post
2. A multi-channel interface with absolutely NO hint of latency for tracking at least 24 tracks at a time while have a completed mix with all of my plugins running.
Like said, Apogee offers this, and it's actually REALITY on current age Mac Pro's, it's not just marketing.

Also, don't forget, in PTHD, many plugins have latency as well, so your DSP mix might not be as fast as you think it is. In native world there are also many plugins that have no latency, while some others have.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony Shepperd View Post
3. Plugins from the same variety of manufacturers that I have now. Not just plugins from Logic/Apple.
Variety in AU plugins is HUGE. Ok, not all TDM/RTAS plugins have an AU version, but this also works the other way around. many cool AU plugins don't have a ProTools version.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony Shepperd View Post
4. A better sounding engine than the 32 bit floating point.
There's nothing wrong with 32bit floating point summing by itself, it's all about implementation. Appereantly most people report Logic 8 sounds better then Logic 7. But you know what? I've always been happy with Logic 7 summing, never felt I came short compared to PT HD. I've even felt the other way around often...
They are prolly different, sure, but it's again about habit and how you work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony Shepperd View Post
5. Fix their pan laws so the left right perspective didn't feel like the sonic walls are closing in on my mix.
Like said higher, panlaw can be chosen, but in any case, panlaw has NO influence in how wide you can make a mix. A mix engineer makes it wide or not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony Shepperd View Post
6. And this is really important...
good old fashioned tech support like Logic Audio used to have. You have a problem, you can get a knowledgeable person on the phone within minutes.
It's there, you get Apple Pro Audio Care and you can call 'm any time.

I wonder why anybody would need it tho? I never had the need. Neither for PT nor for Logic. If there's an issue, it's something you fix yourself in 5 minutes instead of having a 10minute phonecall with somebody who isn't behind the computer in question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony Shepperd View Post
Those are at least my basics for even thinking about switching.
I haven't even gotten into the logistics of the GUI.
That's fine, taste can be different. I prefer Logic look over ProTools. I guess this is also a matter of habit more then anything else.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony Shepperd View Post
Except for the comping feature (which I really like) all the other "new" features of Logic 8 (Simplified Setup, Effortless multitake recording, New audio editing tools, Surround mixing and processing) have been in Pro Tools for at least the past 2 years. Somethings like playlist go back even further than that.
Let's not get into such discussions.. Different programs have different features and accents. There are dozens of things PT does better then Logic, just like there are dozens of things Logic does better then PT.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony Shepperd View Post
And yes Pro Tools is more expensive, NO QUESTION.
Do I wish it were a lower cost, YES!

But there are so many things on the plus side of Pro Tools for professionals.
If you are a weekend warrior, playing around with Logic is cool for $500.
Sorry, but calling Logic for weekend warriors is a lame statement.

I believe world class records were made in the days there even weren't computers! Can YOU imagine that?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony Shepperd View Post
But getting tech support on the phone to work out a problem in the middle of a tracking session, when you have 10 musicians and tens of thousand of dollars on the line... That's priceless!
Like said, you can also with Logic.

It's obvious you love ProTools and don't like Logic, and that's fine, it's a free market, be happy to use what you like.

There is no reason however to bash Logic as unprofessional based on untrue statements. It might not work for you, but it might help another guy sell a million records.

DAW's are just tools, lets not forget that
Old 16th September 2007
  #594
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazzpunk View Post
I remember when the 'weekend warrior' tag was aimed at those embracing Pro Tools while tape was still king!

Paradigm shifts are always interesting.
Paradigm shifts ARE interesting.
I can remember when SSL's were beginning to make their mark and people thought they sounded like crap.
I can remember when CD's came in and people thought they absolutely sounded like crap.
I can remember when ADAT's came on the scene and people thought it was the end of the world.
I can remember when MITB was a thing of horror for so many people...
Oh wait, that was yesterday.

Paradigm's do shift and suddenly. And when they shift you have to either go with the flow or get left behind in it's wake.

4 years ago this January I invested $12,000 in my Pro Tools HD rig.
I've had 2 computers in that time. Both used, costing roughly $2,000.

I have friends who have native systems and they get a new Mac every 2 years because of the power boost needed.
I am still rocking on a used G5 PCIx, Dual 2.5 and don't see that changing for another year or two.
When I look at what I would need to run a native Mac, just the cost of the computer alone makes me wonder if there is a "true savings" in going native.

However, if Pro Tools went away tomorrow I would still be able to work.
If Logic 8 is the Paradigm shift, then bring it on.
However, I don't think it's the "Pro Tools HD killer" everyone said it was going to be.

As I stated before, it might be the LE killer, but there are far too many advantages FOR ME in HD to make a switch right now.

I will probably get my copy of Logic 8 after AES and check it out.
But completely change the way I am working... not today.

If Logic works for you all, COOL! Super COOL!
IMO, Digidesign is the only one who can mess this up.
Apple/Logic have revealed L8, there are many things Digidesign should and will do to come back with an answer to Logic 8.
IF and WHEN they do, it will be up to them. The ball is certainly in Digi's court.
Gotta get back to mixing!
Old 16th September 2007
  #595
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony Shepperd View Post
4 years ago this January I invested $12,000 in my Pro Tools HD rig.
I've had 2 computers in that time. Both used, costing roughly $2,000.

I have friends who have native systems and they get a new Mac every 2 years because of the power boost needed.
I am still rocking on a used G5 PCIx, Dual 2.5 and don't see that changing for another year or two.
When I look at what I would need to run a native Mac, just the cost of the computer alone makes me wonder if there is a "true savings" in going native.
Gives a bit of a false image, it's different for everybody.

I bought my PowerMac 4 years ago. It's a first generation dual 2Ghz G5.

I never maxed out it's CPU yet. I use it for mixing mainly, usually running more then 100 plugins per mix.

I have no plans to buy a new computer either, it still works great, and still is fast enough.

So I'm not upgrading computers more then you.

Of course, audio I/O costs money, but again, for native systems there are more and cheaper options. And don't come with the argument of quality, a Digidesign 192 interface does not sound better then an SSL AlphaLink for example, but the SSL has 3 times the I/O for similar money.

Then there's software, Logic (or another native DAW) costs money. Used to be 1k, now it's merely 499 for the full. Actually, Logic Express would be fine too.
But if you want extra plugins? Native plugins only cost half what TDM plugins cost. A very big saving lies there IMO.

Not saying that native is better or worse then ProTools HD, but it sure is cheaper, no question.
Old 16th September 2007
  #596
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YUGA View Post
A is Logic Pro 7
B is Logic Pro 8

I'm surprised everyone seems to prefer A...
I thought B sounded better but maybe that's because I knew which is which LOL.
Yuga,

Ae you sure nothing else is different about these files than L7/L8? Apart from the fact that they sound quite different (and yes, the L7 one sounded better to me also) , i did a null test on them (in L8 ) The drums completely disappear ( confirming that they're in sync with each other) but there is an absolute s--tload of other material that doesn't phase-cancel - almost a drum-free remix! i wonder if your pan laws could have got set different, or if there could be another explanation... is sample-accurate automation set differently, or PDC ??
Old 16th September 2007
  #597
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDeltaM View Post
Variety in AU plugins is HUGE. Ok, not all TDM/RTAS plugins have an AU version, but this also works the other way around. many cool AU plugins don't have a ProTools version.
Actually I'm not sure how many developers are out there making unique AU-only plugins other than me, but I can think of another example right off the top of my head- Michael Norris's Soundmagic Spectral effects suite.
http://www.michaelnorris.info/soundmagicspectral/

And I think most of my more original plugs are like $60 (which is already not a lot) but Michael's spectral plugs are FREE.

I do have original free stuff too no other reverb is like FreeverbCJ, and Pressure is pretty unique when you crank it way up, and the cab modeling stuff has unique elements and I'm not sure if anybody else does an EQ the way I did ChannelEQ. And I keep updating Channel and not trying to charge for it- that one's really made people happy. But I have to salute Michael Norris for making his whole spectral suite free. And it's all Audio Unit

Looking around a little more, I turned up AUNetSend and AUNetReceive, which apparently means you can stick a plugin on your mix buss or an aux that streams the audio live over a network or the Internet, so someone in another country could collaborate with you live on a mix. I believe this also means you could send an aux to another country, have it processed there, and sent back to the aux return. There are occasional situations where this would make lots of sense, like using particular chambers or reverb tanks IRL. The latency would be really terrible though, so I don't THINK it's quite where you can jam with people over the net... yet

Obviously you could do SOME types of music, like Tangerine Dream-type or really abstract, by having a bunch of musicians AUNetSending their tracks in to you live, where you mix them on the fly and send the mix buss back. I would like to see the day when the internet is fast enough that you could do a rock or funk jam this way without terrible latency. You'd pick up your guitar, plug in, see where you're going to work today, give them your AUNetSend, set AUNetReceive to their monitor mix, and go- possibly keeping Skype open for verbal instructions.

All this is already here- if you're able to use AU, for instance by switching to Logic 8 :D (on the other hand, I don't think the Internet is as good as that yet)
Old 16th September 2007
  #598
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Smile Logic 8 -- and PT...

Hi Tony,

I'm chiming in a bit late in this discussion --

In many, many ways Logic has been and will continue to be a Pro Tools killer. And the same is true in reverse. The core problem with all these discussions is that in the end, it revolves solely around personal taste as DAW's will always sport certain features and functionality that the next app doesn't so direct comparisions, as they always have been, continue to be a waste of time.

I consider myself a power Logic user and I also own a Pro Tools LE system. For my needs Pro Tools is a joke -- not to mention that I hate it's GUI and it's functionality. Now, this can be argued into the ground, but considering that I can get my work done on time and with quality that is more than satisfactory to myself and my clients, then there isn't -- and never will be -- an argument for Pro Tools in my studio. As far as percieved sound quality goes, Logic and PT certainly are different. But PT being better? I think not. Better for some applications? Perhaps. Sonically wider? Individual perception and preference. It comes down to who is behind the wheel. And as far as DSP and latency goes, well that gap is very quickly closing, along with the variety of native plug-ins constantly expanding. On that note, most of us Logic users don't change computers every two years. Since 2000, I've only owned two Macs.

I'm not suggesting that Logic is going to replace PT or put Digi out of business. Far from it. I don't think it matters. Logic is what it is and has a huge professional (read: not weekend warrior) user base that continues to help refine and mature the application. Not to make it more like PT -- this is not something I personally want to see happen. But to bring features that Logic users -- not PT users trying to make Logic into PT (pointless, just use PT) -- need to streamline their workflow. Paradigm shifts do happen every few years, and PT was in the past undoubtedly an important one. However the next shift, the beginning of which we may be witnessing right now, will be in the native world as the combinations of native hardware and software compete with -- and begin to outperform their expensive Digi brethren. Im sure you'll agree that it'll only be a matter of a few more years before Digi themselves abandons DSP card based systems.

As a working professional composer (not a weekend warrior), I believe Logic 8 to be a fantastic next step for this great app.

My two cents...

Best,

Kaveh Cohen

www.kavehcohen.com
Old 16th September 2007
  #599
Lives for gear
 
gussyg2007's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaveh Cohen View Post
Hi Tony,

Im sure you'll agree that it'll only be a matter of a few more years before Digi themselves abandons DSP card based systems.




www.kavehcohen.com
yep computers will become so powerful in the future that we can only dream of what they will be capable of ! 1000 tracks in real time off a lap top the size of your phone !!
Old 16th September 2007
  #600
Lives for gear
 
Tony Shepperd's Avatar
Hey KC, ya I believe that is one possible future, but the present is a different reality.
Unfortunately I don't have a crystal ball.

You say no Pro Tools in your studio and yet you have Pro Tools LE.
I have been in your studio many times. GREAT ROOM!
But it is built as composers room, not geared for heavy duty tracking.

There are many professionals such as yourself who absolutely kill on Logic.
Once again, it's the wizard, not the wand.

Look, I don't own stock in Digi and you and I have have certainly had conversations about the "weekend warriors" who buy a $500 piece of software and suddenly feel they have a lexicon of audio knowledge because of what the software can do. In fact, that phrase was one I heard many years ago from the guys at GC.
But do you honestly believe that Logic 8 is the HD killer?
If that is the case, I would imagine then there will be a ton of HD systems on the market in the next week or so.

As for the sonics, you and I have sat in on listening test before that various friends of ours have managed to easily pick out Pro Tools mix over Logic.
There is a difference.
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