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LOGIC 8 HERE IT IS!!!!
Old 13th September 2007
  #451
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octatonic's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiomichael View Post
What's PDC?

Powerful Deutsch Console?
Please Don't Compare?
Program Dithering Computations?
Plugin Delay Compensation.
Old 13th September 2007
  #452
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audiomichael's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by octatonic View Post
Plugin Delay Compensation.
DUH!!! I'm a tool.
Old 13th September 2007
  #453
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octatonic's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiomichael View Post
DUH!!! I'm a tool.
Is it time for a game of Pointer, Pencil, Scissors?
Old 13th September 2007
  #454
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audiomichael's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by octatonic View Post
Care to cite your source for this?
I'll ask and see if it's cool, and get back to ya'll.
Old 13th September 2007
  #455
Gear Maniac
 

I just hope they've sorted out the existing 10,000 bugs which I'm still dealing with on a day to day basis. To me that's currently worth the price alone. Although to be fair a good deal of those also belong to plug-in developers (this should me interesting).

I will cry if I see random CPU spikes or hear screwed offline bouncing (and we're talking on an 8-core Symphony system).

PS. For those thinking of converting its worth checking the Logic Pro Forums to get an idea of what's happened to date..
Old 13th September 2007
  #456
really the most important thing about L8 is that this means Logic is not being discontinued! Apple had been dark for so long on this, i was starting to worry about that.
Old 13th September 2007
  #457
Mindreader
 
BevvyB's Avatar
 

Logic Studio sells for just £319 (UK) / €479 (Ireland)
Old 13th September 2007
  #458
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audiomichael View Post
I'll ask and see if it's cool, and get back to ya'll.
Sorry, friend said he'd rather me not post a quote from the email, but I can tell you the info came from the Apple's Pro Audio Product Development department in Germany.

BS or not, don't take for granted that the audio engine has been changed...yet.
It'd be nice if Apple made an official comment on this.

I'm guessing that there'll be another update in 2-3 months after Leopard has come out. I'd guess that it'll be Intel Mac Pro only, and take full advantage of 8 core processors, and new bus structures.
Old 13th September 2007
  #459
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiomichael View Post
Sorry, friend said he'd rather me not post a quote from the email, but I can tell you the info came from the Apple's Pro Audio Product Development department in Germany.

BS or not, don't take for granted that the audio engine has been changed...yet.
It'd be nice if Apple made an official comment on this.

I'm guessing that there'll be another update in 2-3 months after Leopard has come out. I'd guess that it'll be Intel Mac Pro only, and take full advantage of 8 core processors, and new bus structures.
I think someone heard a difference... maybe we need to hear clips
Old 13th September 2007
  #460
Airwindows
 
chrisj's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsilbers View Post
tough world really , you need a dongle or something a little more than a serial. (u can bypass in code the dongle but ita a hassle)

if someone asks me to invest in software aplication that only has serial to protect it but its a break though product, ill say no like this (snap fingers)
It's a good thing I'm not asking you to invest in any software of mine. I'm more inclined to ask you 'is there anything I can develop for you that you need?'

Are you SERIOUSLY suggesting that you won't buy a program/plugin that you get to back up and copy and move from one machine to another without hassle?

Or just that you won't invest in a COMPANY that doesn't hassle and distrust its own users?

:D

-chris
Old 13th September 2007
  #461
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C_F_H_13's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jamwerks View Post
It would be very interesting IMO to do a little test on Logic 8 and a new 8 core MacPro, to see how it measures up in terms of power compared to a PT HD system.

For example:

24/96
60 (or 80) audio tracks streamed from internal drives
Sony EQ and Dynamics on each track
3 Sony verbs on busses
etc.

I have the feeling that an 8 core corresponds to about a HD6 or 7.............
Not yet.....but when 10.5 comes out and OSX goes full 64-bit...that's when you'll see HUGE processing hjumps.....OSX right now limits system resources severely per application...
Old 14th September 2007
  #462
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Tibbon's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by BevvyB View Post
Logic Studio sells for just £319 (UK) / €479 (Ireland)
Sounds kinda lame to pay $646 USD equivalent for a $500 piece of software in the UK and $664 for the same in Irelant + VAT. Sounds like you're getting screwed actually.
Old 14th September 2007
  #463
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeronimo View Post
I think someone heard a difference... maybe we need to hear clips
was it love, or was it the idea of being in love?
Old 14th September 2007
  #464
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nu-tra View Post
I got a mackie C4 and never got it to work. any tips?
weird; mine was pretty much plug 'n play.

my layout is xt-lc-c4-xt-xt, giving 16 faders on each side of the center section.

when i first plugged it in and ran logic, in the control surface setup page the c4 showed up as another xt. this caused all manner of problems with the other devices. it was also in the same "line" as the others which brought different problems.

when i pulled my head out and figured out that i could and needed to identify it as a c4 rather than an xt, it was sweet and worked fine; however, because it was set up on the same line as the others, it would ape them, and status changes on the lc caused it to follow them and vice versa. for instance, on track view, it was giving me tracks 17+, between the two banks of 16 faders, treating the c4's knobs as volume pots for the tracks. this was dumb.

so i put it on its own line, separate from the xt's and lc, and i am now able to control it separately from the other devices. i have it set up so that when i select a track on the logic control or xt's, the c4 gives channel strip view for the selected track, allowing me to adjust EQ, flip thru the inserts and edit them, etc. the c4 follows the lc/xt track selection but no longer changes its status to that of the lc/xt - that remains independent.

this is pretty much the coolest thing i've experienced in awhile (so i'm a dullard), but i was a waaaay early adopter of the logic control and have been waiting for this kind of surface implementation for a long time. although for me part of the wait was being too cheap to pay full retail for the c4, that's neither here nor there.

c4, like the logic control, should just jump off automatically if it's identified correctly in the set up window.
Old 14th September 2007
  #465
Mindreader
 
BevvyB's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tibbon View Post
Sounds kinda lame to pay $646 USD equivalent for a $500 piece of software in the UK and $664 for the same in Irelant + VAT. Sounds like you're getting screwed actually.
yeah, but the old price was 700 quid!
Old 14th September 2007
  #466
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octatonic's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tibbon View Post
Sounds kinda lame to pay $646 USD equivalent for a $500 piece of software in the UK and $664 for the same in Irelant + VAT. Sounds like you're getting screwed actually.
You have to remember that the UK price is inc tax, the US price is ex tax.
Taxes are higher in the (UK 17.5% vs 8.5ish )(but then you have things like social services to compensate :-) ).
Old 14th September 2007
  #467
Thanks Vixa

Quote:
Originally Posted by vixapphire View Post
weird; mine was pretty much plug 'n play.

my layout is xt-lc-c4-xt-xt, giving 16 faders on each side of the center section.

when i first plugged it in and ran logic, in the control surface setup page the c4 showed up as another xt. this caused all manner of problems with the other devices. it was also in the same "line" as the others which brought different problems.

when i pulled my head out and figured out that i could and needed to identify it as a c4 rather than an xt, it was sweet and worked fine; however, because it was set up on the same line as the others, it would ape them, and status changes on the lc caused it to follow them and vice versa. for instance, on track view, it was giving me tracks 17+, between the two banks of 16 faders, treating the c4's knobs as volume pots for the tracks. this was dumb.

so i put it on its own line, separate from the xt's and lc, and i am now able to control it separately from the other devices. i have it set up so that when i select a track on the logic control or xt's, the c4 gives channel strip view for the selected track, allowing me to adjust EQ, flip thru the inserts and edit them, etc. the c4 follows the lc/xt track selection but no longer changes its status to that of the lc/xt - that remains independent.

this is pretty much the coolest thing i've experienced in awhile (so i'm a dullard), but i was a waaaay early adopter of the logic control and have been waiting for this kind of surface implementation for a long time. although for me part of the wait was being too cheap to pay full retail for the c4, that's neither here nor there.

c4, like the logic control, should just jump off automatically if it's identified correctly in the set up window.
Old 14th September 2007
  #468
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clonewar's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by gsilbers View Post
if someone asks me to invest in software aplication that only has serial to protect it but its a break though product, ill say no like this (snap fingers)

apple in the other hand using just a serial can entice PC users to buy macs for it.

i really dont care if its a serial or not. still its about the artist making the music.
if everyone has it, oh well, levels more the playing field.

i just seems stupid for a company like apple to not use simple challenge and response type of security. Abletons is great and non complicated. native instruments its kinda of a pain sometimes but not bad.
obvious thier biggest revenue is from hardware.
Amazing. So there's a big group out there that won't support software that uses dongles (check the Sonar forums)......and now we know that there are people that won't support software if they dont use a dongle??

I really pity music product software developers, there's no possible way they can win.
Old 14th September 2007
  #469
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clonewar View Post
I really pity music product software developers, there's no possible way they can win.
No, I suspect Apple will win on this one. Instead.... pity the fool who thinks Apple is stupid for taking the handcuffs off paying customers. I PITY THE FOOL!!! (where's that Mr. T emoticon?!)
Old 14th September 2007
  #470
Gear Addict
 
Orren's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by PBenz View Post
Has anyone seen anything related to whether or not Logic 8 will take advantage of all 8 cores in those Mac Pro boxes?
It will.

Orren
Old 14th September 2007
  #471
Gear Addict
 
Orren's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tyro View Post
I found this in the logic pro 8 technical specs:

"Internal audio resolution: 32-bit floating point; 64-bit precision where required".

Don't really know what to make of that, "where required" seems like a strange expression to me... might it be that the summing buss is 64-bit? or that the whole app is 64-bit under leopard?
It is a bit awkward wording. What I assume it means is that everywhere that Logic would benefit from 64-bits, it does. Where it would cause problems—for example, the Audio Unit format cannot currently deliver 64-bits of audio from a plug-in to a host, so there's no room for 64-bit precision there; moreover, if it could, then all your plug-ins would need to be rewritten—Logic retains 32-bit floating point precision.

What that means to me is that Logic 8 has a best of all words hybrid audio engine.

Orren
Old 14th September 2007
  #472
Gear Addict
 
Orren's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by raydo View Post
[B][SIZE="3"]They also say it will work with a G4 1.25
Keep in mind that "minimum system requirements" tends to mean "the application will run...kinda...sorta...I hope you didn't actually want to use it much..."

I've never run Logic 8 on a G4, but those machines have been discontinued for years, and are orders of magnitude slower than machines being sold now. You might just get performance you consider acceptable, but I honestly wouldn't expect it.

Orren
Old 14th September 2007
  #473
Gear Addict
 
Orren's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rufuss Sewell View Post
I just loaded up a pretty complicated mix and bounced it in both L7 and L8. I'm pleased to say that it sounds noticeably better. I'm not the audiophile type so I wasn't expecting to hear much of a difference. But the L8 bounce is definitely smoother in the high end and the snare pops more. Overall much more ambience and depth
That makes complete sense to me.

One of the best kept secrets of Logic 8 is it's new floating point normalize feature on bounce (you can disable it if you want, but there's really no reason to). It's absolutely amazing! It is a feature that basically maps each floating point value to its optimum fixed point value. Basically, it maintains the total integrity of your audio's dynamic range while optimizing the bounce. There's a full explanation in Apple's tech note:
Logic Pro/Express 8: Discussion of the Normalize feature in the Bounce dialog

Honestly, I bet if Cubase or Sonor or another application offered this, it would be renamed "Precision Bit Mapped Bounce™©®" or something and hailed as the greatest new feature known to man. I'm actually quite surprised not a bigger deal has been made of this. As far as I'm concerned, it's a one-checkbox "Optimize Bounce" button.

Orren
Old 14th September 2007
  #474
Gear Addict
 
Orren's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by audiomichael View Post
The question was posed to one of the Logic product managers:

1. Did you guys change/improve the audio engine
sonically?


The answer was no.

Has anyone heard otherwise?
Keep in mind, that could be a question with numerous "right" answers.

For example, the new floating point normalize feature in the bounce dialog is definitely new, and a vast improvement over previous bounces (and bounces from any other app, honestly). But that doesn't mean that the part of the engine that renders EXS samples has improved.

And the summing bus of the mixer might technically be designed as a "plug-in" to the audio engine, the way that in Pro Tools, there were different mixer plug-ins—I don't know. In this case, again, it's very possible that the summing mixer could integrate brand new 64-bit code that sounds better, while the "audio engine" underlying it has not be altered. Again—I'm not a coder, I can't be sure.

In other words, I find it perfectly plausible that one product manager will feel that there have been no changes to the base audio engine, while at the same time features that affect/plug in to the audio engine will be improved and result in sonic improvement. But again, this is just my opinion.

Orren
Old 14th September 2007
  #475
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mixerguy's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orren View Post
That makes complete sense to me.

One of the best kept secrets of Logic 8 is it's new floating point normalize feature on bounce (you can disable it if you want, but there's really no reason to). It's absolutely amazing! It is a feature that basically maps each floating point value to its optimum fixed point value. Basically, it maintains the total integrity of your audio's dynamic range while optimizing the bounce. There's a full explanation in Apple's tech note:
Logic Pro/Express 8: Discussion of the Normalize feature in the Bounce dialog

Honestly, I bet if Cubase or Sonor or another application offered this, it would be renamed "Precision Bit Mapped Bounce™©®" or something and hailed as the greatest new feature known to man. I'm actually quite surprised not a bigger deal has been made of this. As far as I'm concerned, it's a one-checkbox "Optimize Bounce" button.

Orren
if the mix is going to be mastered - it is best to leave about 6 db of headroom - NOT at 0

FYI
Old 14th September 2007
  #476
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Tibbon's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by mixerguy View Post
if the mix is going to be mastered - it is best to leave about 6 db of headroom - NOT at 0

FYI
I'd say it's a better idea to just never normalize a mix. Ever.
Old 14th September 2007
  #477
Gear Nut
 

And also as an example, if you're bouncing keyboard stacks to a single stereo track or whatever you really don't want them normalised at 0bd - if you do that to all your indivudual tracks in a mix you're in big trouble summing all that lack of headroom into the mix buss...
Old 14th September 2007
  #478
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tonecontroller View Post
And also as an example, if you're bouncing keyboard stacks to a single stereo track or whatever you really don't want them normalised at 0bd - if you do that to all your indivudual tracks in a mix you're in big trouble summing all that lack of headroom into the mix buss...
+1 !!!!
Old 14th September 2007
  #479
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tibbon View Post
I'd say it's a better idea to just never normalize a mix. Ever.
Agreed.

However in this case at least it takes places in 32 bit floating point NOT fixed point, which is one of the critiques of regular normalizing in terms of distortion/quantizing.

But still, headroom is lost and that's not very smart. I'd really like Apple to remove this feature.. I can see a whole lot of trouble on the horizon...
Old 14th September 2007
  #480
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gussyg2007's Avatar
upgrade

hey just got my copy of logic 8 do i still get to keep 7 or do i lose it in the upgrade ????? anybody out there know ???
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