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LOGIC 8 HERE IT IS!!!!
Old 13th September 2007
  #361
Airwindows
 
chrisj's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tibbon View Post
I'm not endorsing piracy, and neither is Apple, but I think Apple has a model of how to not fight against it, to make it work for them. I don't think Apple has (or does often) send out nasty lawsuit letters to people that have downloaded or shared their products- unlikes Waves, the RIAA/MPAA, Microsoft, etc..

Keep in mind, Jobs and Woz were both hackers and pranksters. They know what can be circumvented. Don't tell me for a second that Jobs looks at a program and doesn't think, "couldn't people just share the serial number?". He knows, but this works for Apple.

I for one am putting in my order to get it ASAP. I am glad that now I don't have to worry about this expensive little dongle getting lost.
I am surprised though pleased Apple is doing this, but it's interesting because I'm doing exactly the same thing, only more so. Here's the deal:

In computer software, nothing is uncrackable, and your only real defense is GOOD WILL.

I put out plugins, and they are stripped down to the raw basics of what's needed to run. The copy protection is 'access control', meaning that you buy a plugin and then you're immediately given a download link from Kagi. That link will only be live for a finite time and finite download attempts (if this isn't enough, bug me or Kagi and we'll fix you up). The actual plugin is... the plugin. Period. You put it in the components folder and it just works. It doesn't even ask you for a serial number. It just works and never mistrusts YOU or disrespects you. It assumes you are completely honorable and doesn't spend a nanosecond worrying about how to check if you really paid...

For that reason, you can BACK IT UP so if you have a computer crash, hardware failure, you're not hosed. You can move it to new computers, you can run it on all your nodes in Logic 8 with my blessing but you didn't need my permission to try it, you only had to copy it over.

Where's the glee in breaking the trust of a software thing that trusts YOU?

I expect people who have copied versions of my for-pay plugs- there might be some out there by now, or there might not- to either discard them, or go to the Kagi store and buy them properly. That said, I care more about improving the experience for users who HAVE been honorable, than about hurting the user experience in order to punish anyone who HASN'T been honorable. I expect people to politely ask anyone hosting warez plugins of mine to stop doing that- MY time is better spent trying to develop new plugins. I don't attack my users.

Is it so unthinkable that Apple, with their hardware business and their desire for mindshare, are seeing things in the same way? Maybe it's not a matter of 'cynically approving of piracy' as much as it's just a really hardcore committment to NOT ATTACK YOUR USERS.

Shouldn't this be applauded? I can tell you from my own perspective that it's a bold, bold move. I keep having to explain my strategy to people who are like, dude, people are going to rip you off- but there is no other way to actually have people take sides and enthusiastically support you, you have to come at it from a perspective of how much you can give people while still having anything left in your store.

It looks like Apple can afford to give quite a lot to people in hopes they will love Apple for it.

I will love them as long as they didn't break all my AU plugins and force me to update everything :D
Old 13th September 2007
  #362
Lives for gear
 

Well said
Old 13th September 2007
  #363
Gear Addict
 
cletus's Avatar
 

*@(&^@%_ I Just bought Logic pro used a few months ago at a price I thought was good $600 usd. Oh well gonna be a minute before I can upgrade. I'm just starting to get aquainted with 7.2.
Old 13th September 2007
  #364
Gear Maniac
Looks more like Tracktion 4, than Logic 8.
Old 13th September 2007
  #365
Lives for gear
 
peeder's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Agno View Post
Anyone want to explain how us multiple computers users continue forward with no exs-key?
I know that Aperture uses the "network serialization" approach to copy protection...you can only run one instance of a serial number on a network at a time, so you'll need multiple serial numbers for multiple simultaneous machines. I would imagine they just dropped in the same code they use for Aperture into Logic.

I find this a reasonably acceptable approach to copy protection...you can firewall off the serial check if you wish to quite easily, but you might lose network functionality for the application when doing so.
Old 13th September 2007
  #366
Lives for gear
 
gsilbers's Avatar
 

IMO is more of a grey area... in terms of level of piracy.


the highest level of piracy is from an application just having a serial. so anyone can upload the P2P pipeline , anyone can download it and use it.

then there is those keygenrator things or bypassing the challenge response which weeds out a LOT of kids and poeple and enthusiasts.

and then there is those software engineers type of guys who can crack anything.
and put out those cracks in P2P that dont work/brake/ or too complicated.

and of course bypassing/changing the installer (mostly in PC)

as for people just being nice and buying instead of piracy , well thats just naive.
kids nowadays dont care. most people dont care and in developing nations is virtually non-existent. plain and simple.
its like an omish guy in the streets of brazil. not only would he be mugged/kidnapped/get a beating but the police wont care/bribe him and niether the us embassy will care.
tough world really , you need a dongle or something a little more than a serial. (u can bypass in code the dongle but ita a hassle)

if someone asks me to invest in software aplication that only has serial to protect it but its a break though product, ill say no like this (snap fingers)

apple in the other hand using just a serial can entice PC users to buy macs for it.

i really dont care if its a serial or not. still its about the artist making the music.
if everyone has it, oh well, levels more the playing field.

i just seems stupid for a company like apple to not use simple challenge and response type of security. Abletons is great and non complicated. native instruments its kinda of a pain sometimes but not bad.
obvious thier biggest revenue is from hardware.
Old 13th September 2007
  #367
Lives for gear
 
gsilbers's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bugs View Post
Looks more like Tracktion 4, than Logic 8.
in some pics even look like garbageband
Old 13th September 2007
  #368
Gear Guru
 
Animus's Avatar
 

Apple is selling Logic cheaper and ditching the copy protection because they don't push software, they push hardware. Plain and simple. They attract by relatively cheap and full featured software so you buy their proprietary above premium priced hardware to run it on. More people using pirated copies still means more people buying computers and igadgets.
Old 13th September 2007
  #369
Lives for gear
 
illynoise's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tibbon View Post
Did the Apple stores have it already? Same day air? How'd you get it so fast?
They did here in Denver. Though they were going fast. Guitar Center still had the $999 versions of Logic 7, they reckoned that they would go down to 200 dollars, which I think is a good backup copy to purchase! Even Better than getting 299 for Logic Express users.
If indeed that happens.
Old 13th September 2007
  #370
Lives for gear
 
j-uk's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by gsilbers View Post
IMO is more of a grey area... in terms of level of piracy.


the highest level of piracy is from an application just having a serial. so anyone can upload the P2P pipeline , anyone can download it and use it.

then there is those keygenrator things or bypassing the challenge response which weeds out a LOT of kids and poeple and enthusiasts.

and then there is those software engineers type of guys who can crack anything.
and put out those cracks in P2P that dont work/brake/ or too complicated.

and of course bypassing/changing the installer (mostly in PC)

as for people just being nice and buying instead of piracy , well thats just naive.
kids nowadays dont care. most people dont care and in developing nations is virtually non-existent. plain and simple.
its like an omish guy in the streets of brazil. not only would he be mugged/kidnapped/get a beating but the police wont care/bribe him and niether the us embassy will care.
tough world really , you need a dongle or something a little more than a serial. (u can bypass in code the dongle but ita a hassle)

if someone asks me to invest in software aplication that only has serial to protect it but its a break though product, ill say no like this (snap fingers)

apple in the other hand using just a serial can entice PC users to buy macs for it.

i really dont care if its a serial or not. still its about the artist making the music.
if everyone has it, oh well, levels more the playing field.

i just seems stupid for a company like apple to not use simple challenge and response type of security. Abletons is great and non complicated. native instruments its kinda of a pain sometimes but not bad.
obvious thier biggest revenue is from hardware.
I have to confess I don't really understand the link in between software copy protection and the development of third world country. The amish guy being beaten in Brazil is also somewhat bewildering but strangely poetic at the same time dfegaddfegaddfegad

Looking at how Apple is fairing on the market it seems a lot of investor are not sharing your concerns and frankly why would they? Apple sells hardware and you can't run Logic on a PC. The non dongle approach also seems to be in line with Apple's recent stand on DMR free music.
And although I can sadly share your somewhat bleak view on the current state of the world. I think from a business point of view they're absolutely right in thinking that if the price is right most people can't be arsed with p2p and will just buy it.
One thing that always seems to be neglected in discussions surrounding piracy is that a pirated piece of software does not equate one less copy to sell. This does not make the offender less of a Blackbeard but it makes quite a difference in how you calculate potential loss from piracy.
Old 13th September 2007
  #371
Lives for gear
 
j-uk's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by doktahyde View Post
AxuaLLy it WasnT thaT muCh aT aLL MORON paPER mADE Man. ThE wHo0le poiNt if U didNt geT it is Why host a LogiC 7 101 CoURSE WHEn THe ClaSS IS goINg 2 b INvAlID 2 wEEx LATeR? ISs THaT cLEAr 2 u PAPeR MaDE pLASTikk mannnn!!!

aIGht maan, fOO shOO!!!!!!
Old 13th September 2007
  #372
Lives for gear
 
nikki-k's Avatar
 

Grabbed mine from Pioneer Place Apple store in Portland, Or.
Full install is huge (~40G?). Box is wicked sturdy, and HEAVY with all the stuff in it.

Installed, finally about to run it...
Old 13th September 2007
  #373
Lives for gear
 
Rufuss Sewell's Avatar
I just loaded up a pretty complicated mix and bounced it in both L7 and L8. I'm pleased to say that it sounds noticeably better. I'm not the audiophile type so I wasn't expecting to hear much of a difference. But the L8 bounce is definitely smoother in the high end and the snare pops more. Overall much more ambience and depth.

I'm listening on Adam s2.5a's through Rosetta 800 converters clocked with Big Ben.
Old 13th September 2007
  #374
Lives for gear
 
Rufuss Sewell's Avatar
Oh, and it didn't crash!

But it did reset ALL of my icons to default... even in L7!!! ergggg.
Old 13th September 2007
  #375
Lives for gear
 
Eigenwert's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Lee View Post
To all those people who are crying about it not being 64bit and thus no more than 4Gb RAM in use... It can't be 64bit before Apple releases Leopard. I don't get how people can own computers and not try to understand how they work.
There was one (!) single post on only one of all those GS threads crying about this (and till yesterday night I read all of the comments )

Old 13th September 2007
  #376
Lives for gear
 
Rufuss Sewell's Avatar
The junction tool is awesome!!!
Old 13th September 2007
  #377
Lives for gear
 
mixerguy's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rufuss Sewell View Post
I just loaded up a pretty complicated mix and bounced it in both L7 and L8. I'm pleased to say that it sounds noticeably better. I'm not the audiophile type so I wasn't expecting to hear much of a difference. But the L8 bounce is definitely smoother in the high end and the snare pops more. Overall much more ambience and depth.

I'm listening on Adam s2.5a's through Rosetta 800 converters clocked with Big Ben.

oh i'm gonna ask the obvious - can you post some clips?

:-)
Old 13th September 2007
  #378
Lives for gear
 
Rob G's Avatar
 

Cool

Serious question #1?

Does Logic Pro 8's nativedelay compensation work in conjunction with Pro Tools|HD's automatic delay compensation simultaneously from DTDM to TDM.

Serious question #2?

Can third party AU plugin's be used on Logic Pro 8 nodes as well as those on the primary computer?

Serious question #3?

Where/when do we get access to Pro Tools 7.4(majorly important to PTHD owners like myself)?

Rob G..

P.S.: Excuse me if this has been fully addressed somewhere else in this thread(did'nt feel like reading thru all 13 pages).
Old 13th September 2007
  #379
Lives for gear
 
Rufuss Sewell's Avatar
Arg... junction tool doesn't seem to work on more than one track at a time... I was really hoping to use it on drum tracks.

The song I'm doing is an unfinished mix so I don't want to put it out there. But I did have both bounces open in Quicktime and I shuffled them around with my eyes mostly closed so I couldn't tell which was which... effectively a blind test. And I picked L8 every time. It's a pretty obvious difference.
Old 13th September 2007
  #380
Lives for gear
 
noiseflaw's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rufuss Sewell View Post
I just loaded up a pretty complicated mix and bounced it in both L7 and L8. I'm pleased to say that it sounds noticeably better. I'm not the audiophile type so I wasn't expecting to hear much of a difference. But the L8 bounce is definitely smoother in the high end and the snare pops more. Overall much more ambience and depth.
I have so far heard good things about the audio engine in Logic studio 8 and its improved sound....

I need to get a copy - jeez it's not on sale here yet.
Old 13th September 2007
  #381
Lives for gear
 
Eigenwert's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Lee
I don't get how people can own computers and not try to understand how they work.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JesseJ View Post
It is really quite easy. You see.. half of all humankind is below average.

- Jesse -
So what - do you clamour for an exam in pointer operation & binary arithmetics before people are allowed to use computers? This qualifies for that "dumbest thing you´ve ever read on gearslutz"-thread

I doubt if JayLee would pass this exam anyway since he can´t distinguish between calculation accuracy & address space tutt
Old 13th September 2007
  #382
Gear Maniac
Hm something that Im not sure about:

If you upgrade from LP7, what parts of the whole Logic Studio package will be included? I guess just LP8 and some sound libary, right?

Just out of curiosity
Old 13th September 2007
  #383
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rufuss Sewell View Post
Arg... junction tool doesn't seem to work on more than one track at a time... I was really hoping to use it on drum tracks.

The song I'm doing is an unfinished mix so I don't want to put it out there. But I did have both bounces open in Quicktime and I shuffled them around with my eyes mostly closed so I couldn't tell which was which... effectively a blind test. And I picked L8 every time. It's a pretty obvious difference.
Perhaps just post a portion of it? I'm really interested...
Old 13th September 2007
  #384
Lives for gear
 
headwerkn's Avatar
hehe, beat me to it. iLife is a great example. you get several excellent digital media applications for less than one equivalent app elsewhere. no way Apple is making money on iLife, but that's not why it exists - it sweetens the Mac experience, adds value to the platform and thus makes people buy Macs, which is where they make their dough.

iPods are the same deal... iTunes and the iTunes Store make the iPod a nicer and more useful product, so more people will buy them.

i didn't mind the dongle though i was good at forgetting to take it on live recordings (GarageBand has saved me a lot). the fact you can still install it on a couple of machines without Apple getting ancy about software activation and stuff like that is great. clearly Apple are more interested in getting more people using Logic - through the price drop and dare I say newfound pirateability - because eventually those users will equal hardware sales. consider also that more Logic users like going to use well spec'd Mac Pros than iMacs and Mac minis.

it's for the same reason that Apple wouldn't want Logic to be a 'ProTools Killa'... assuming at least half of all ProTools rigs are run on Macs (probably more) Apple are probably making more money out of ProTools than they will ever out of Logic.

i do feel for software companies having to come up against this kind of advantage though. if i ever wanted to start writing plugins i'd be thinking 'let's create a hardware DSP platform that connects via Firewire' ;-)
Old 13th September 2007
  #385
Lives for gear
 
Rufuss Sewell's Avatar
I'm sure by tomorrow there will be plenty of A/B tests. To be honest I don't know how to do it. I don't have anywhere to post files.

On another amazing note... so far...

EFFECTS AREN'T CASHING!!!! Meaning when I start the song after stopping in the middle, it's totally silent!!!! No continuing reverb tail!!! That's the best news so far. No clicks or pops at the beginning either!
Old 13th September 2007
  #386
Lives for gear
 
Eigenwert's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rufuss Sewell View Post
I don't have anywhere to post files.
Use mediafire!
Old 13th September 2007
  #387
Lives for gear
 
Agno's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rufuss Sewell View Post
I'm sure by tomorrow there will be plenty of A/B tests. To be honest I don't know how to do it. I don't have anywhere to post files.

On another amazing note... so far...

EFFECTS AREN'T CASHING!!!! Meaning when I start the song after stopping in the middle, it's totally silent!!!! No continuing reverb tail!!! That's the best news so far. No clicks or pops at the beginning either!
Does logic have an offline "audiosuite" type of process feature like ProTools and Soundtrack pro?
Old 13th September 2007
  #388
Lives for gear
 
jacko's Avatar
Goog test (as a comparison with Pro Tools) would be creating 20 tracks, putting some plugins on them, then deleting 10 tracks and then creating another 20. In Pro Tools it would result with 30 tracks, where 10 would have had plugins. In Logic 7 those plugins would stay on the channel strips.

Another question:
Is what you see what you hear? I hate in Logic that it hides some regions underneath another regions and this creates huge mess and confusion in the arrangement.
Old 13th September 2007
  #389
Lives for gear
 
Rufuss Sewell's Avatar
At first I was thinking there were some great tools for quantizing multi track drums. But it seems I was mistaken. the junction tool doesn't time stretch... it just moves the start and end points. It also only seems to work on one track at a time, even when tracks are grouped. In fact group edit doesn't seem to work at all. The snap to transient thing doesn't seem to let you make cuts at the transients. It just pushed the right side of the selection to a transient. I don't see what the point of that is. If I want to slice drums, I need to go quickly from one transient to the next and make cuts. Then I want to easily grab the cut and move it to the grid... stretching the region before and compressing the region after. Seems simple to me. I'll keep digging though.

Also no "Tie Regions by time stretching???"

They have to know people want to have an easier time quantizing drums.
Old 13th September 2007
  #390
Lives for gear
 
jacko's Avatar
I am just hoping a good reply from Digidesign...
LE with plugin delay compensation and more I/O.
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