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negative delay and "external effects" in cubase/nuendo Audio Interfaces
Old 10th September 2007
  #1
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negative delay and "external effects" in cubase/nuendo

"negative delay": some of you might have heard of this some not. it's this phenomenon when audio that is sent thru a piece of hardware is recorded EARLIER on a new track than the original source signal. for all nonbelievers, yes this is possible! it happens with interfaces/drivers like RME or digi 002r. there is tons to write about this but now and here i'm not interested in technical details but in another question:

which audio interfaces show the normal positive delay behaviour AND are proven to work perfectly with the external effects feature from cubase/nuendo? if possible only personal reports and succes stories and no smart-ass-behaviour and guesswork please heh

istvan
Old 11th September 2007
  #2
Lives for gear
ok, maybe this is too complicated
let's phrase it differenly: who is working with cubase/nuendo external effects sucessfully? what audio interfaces are you using? does pinging work perfectly?

cheers
istvan
Old 11th September 2007
  #3
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jerdude's Avatar
 

i've been doing it here since the release of N3. works perfectly on my new machine and perfectly on my old Athlon XP 2800 machine.

i am using the RME hdsp 9652... which is very common among Nuendo users. in and out through apogee converters.

works like a charm.

strangely... i find that i am mixing more and more all ITB. but that's another thread.

i've never heard or heard of what you are describing.

in fact... i'd say you are snipe hunting.
Old 11th September 2007
  #4
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
i am using the RME hdsp 9652... which is very common among Nuendo users. in and out through apogee converters.

works like a charm.
Glad to hear this because I ordered this card recently because of the problem futur2 is having. I was running a Firestudio and among a million other problems I was having, I was getting improper "ping" times through this thing which totally kills the joy of "external effects as plugins". Of course the tech on the Presonus forum totally denied that it could be the driver, I can guarantee that it is the problem...Sorry i can't give you a sucess story ftur2, but I can tell you what not to get
Old 11th September 2007
  #5
Gear Addict
 

I did have the problem few times (N3 here). So I bounce it and snap it manually.
Old 11th September 2007
  #6
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richardswag's Avatar
 

MOTU 828mkII with SX3.11 here on a dual G5 - works perfectly even with very timing sensitive issues such as using an external comp for parallel compression.
Old 12th September 2007
  #7
Lives for gear
thanks guys and don't stop!
good to know that presonus doesn't work and interesting that the rme card works, i know for sure that the rme fireface doen't work.
Old 12th September 2007
  #8
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i once had an motu 828ii, hope i don't have to get one again heh

Quote:
Originally Posted by richardswag View Post
MOTU 828mkII with SX3.11 here on a dual G5 - works perfectly even with very timing sensitive issues such as using an external comp for parallel compression.
Old 12th September 2007
  #9
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richardswag's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by futur2 View Post
i once had an motu 828ii, hope i don't have to get one again heh
Well I'm sure you won't HAVE to...

I know it's not exactly *slutty* but what didn't you like about it? I think it's good value for money
Old 13th September 2007
  #10
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I used MOTU HD192 for years and it worked great. Make sure you ping the ping when the fx unit is bypassed, thats a very important yet overlooked variable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by futur2 View Post
ok, maybe this is too complicated
let's phrase it differenly: who is working with cubase/nuendo external effects sucessfully? what audio interfaces are you using? does pinging work perfectly?

cheers
istvan
Old 13th September 2007
  #11
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by CorkyTart View Post
I used MOTU HD192 for years and it worked great. Make sure you ping the ping when the fx unit is bypassed, thats a very important yet overlooked variable.
What if the unit has no bypass? A lot of em dont....
Old 14th September 2007
  #12
Lives for gear
no it's ok, JUST the converters and pres are not really the best heh
i'm actually running a digi 002r together with an apogee rosetta 800 and i don't use the 002s converters at all. if i'd finally switch to cubase/nuendo i want to use more of my nice hardware and i'd like some kind of interface where i would have no bad feeelings using the converters in addition to the rosetta converters...

so any other combinations that work??

Quote:
Originally Posted by richardswag View Post
Well I'm sure you won't HAVE to...

I know it's not exactly *slutty* but what didn't you like about it? I think it's good value for money
Old 16th September 2007
  #13
Lives for gear
ok, so no one else in whole gearslutz working with cubase/nuendo external fx??
Old 16th September 2007
  #14
Here for the gear
 

I am, had no problems, UAd101 soundcard.
Old 16th September 2007
  #15
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slaves666's Avatar
I do it with a Fireface in Nuendo3. I had issues with my Distressor not using the TRS to XLR, but with those cables works fine, dunno why. My 2 LA4's with TRS - XLR work great.
Old 17th September 2007
  #16
Lives for gear
oho! really!?!? i've read dozen times of the negative delay thing that prevents cubase/nuendo to work well with the fireface in relation to external fx.

just two example thread:

http://forum.cubase.net/phpbb2/viewt...fd7a099525e695

RME Fireface 800/400 not pinging external effects

Quote:
Originally Posted by slaves666 View Post
I do it with a Fireface in Nuendo3. I had issues with my Distressor not using the TRS to XLR, but with those cables works fine, dunno why. My 2 LA4's with TRS - XLR work great.
Old 17th September 2007
  #17
theother
Guest
External inserts and the ping auto-delay compensation work perfect with my RME MADI card, MADI to ADAT converters and Apogee AD/DA-16Xs.

Both with N3 and C4.

It's like a dream come true!

I hate everything about firewire. Had nothing but trouble with it. I wouldn't trust it a second!
Old 18th September 2007
  #18
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i'm afraid you could be very right

Quote:
Originally Posted by theother View Post
External inserts and the ping auto-delay compensation work perfect with my RME MADI card, MADI to ADAT converters and Apogee AD/DA-16Xs.

Both with N3 and C4.

It's like a dream come true!

I hate everything about firewire. Had nothing but trouble with it. I wouldn't trust it a second!
Old 26th November 2007
  #19
Lives for gear
i thought maybe different guys read the computer and the so much gear, so little time forum. i have a similar thread over there, but i thought i bring this one to life again...

if anyone's interested in the other thread:
integration of external hardware
Old 27th November 2007
  #20
Led
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Led's Avatar
[quote=futur2;1489241if possible only personal reports and succes stories and no smart-ass-behaviour and guesswork please heh
istvan[/quote]

So you're telling everyone here RME has this problem, yet you've never seen it happen and only read about it on forums, occuring on systems whos specs you don't know? heh

FWIW I use FF800's for external hardware everyday and have no problem at all. You need to ping the gear, but I've never had any negative delays.
Cheers
Old 21st April 2011
  #21
Gear Head
 

any soution???

Just reviving this in hope of someone knowing a fix/workaround for this problem. I'm on Cubase6, Win7, FF800. Been trying to ping the spdif (connected to an MPX1) and analog (compressors).

Anyone?
Old 21st April 2011
  #22
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atma's Avatar
at least in cubase 5, in Device Setup>VST audio system there's a box you can tick that says "adjust for record latency". you can set it +/- how ever many samples your input bus is off.
Old 21st April 2011
  #23
Gear Head
 

ok. thanks for the tip. But will this help when "pinging" the external hardware for latency compensation?
Old 21st April 2011
  #24
Gear Maniac
 

Out of curiosity, what is this "ping" you speak of. I'm just now in the process of connecting my computer interface but not done yet. I would like to use external effects...so I'm just curious.
Thanks
Old 21st April 2011
  #25
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by fitZ View Post
Out of curiosity, what is this "ping" you speak of. I'm just now in the process of connecting my computer interface but not done yet. I would like to use external effects...so I'm just curious.
Thanks
In the VST Connections-External FX, you set up in/out connections to external hardware and should be able to "ping" this "patch" so that Cubase/Nuendo can calculate the latency and compensate automatically. Unfortunately the RME drivers make this difficult.......

Hope that helps
Old 21st April 2011
  #26
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steveschizoid's Avatar
All this works easily and perfectly with a Lynx AES16e/Aurora 16.
Old 22nd April 2011
  #27
NL5
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NL5's Avatar
 

Works 100% flawlessly here since SX3. Various cards - mostly RME.

Curious to what effects you are pinging that are giving you that problem?
Old 22nd April 2011
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mnemosound View Post
Just reviving this in hope of someone knowing a fix/workaround for this problem. I'm on Cubase6, Win7, FF800. Been trying to ping the spdif (connected to an MPX1) and analog (compressors).

Anyone?
So.... What happens when you try to ping your MPX1? Nothing? What happens when you send audio to it? No sound or do you get sound that is out of sync? You have it set up so audio is routed out thru your S/PDIF to your MPX1 and then back into Cubase via S/PDIF, right?
Old 22nd April 2011
  #29
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by sparqee View Post
So.... What happens when you try to ping your MPX1? Nothing? What happens when you send audio to it? No sound or do you get sound that is out of sync? You have it set up so audio is routed out thru your S/PDIF to your MPX1 and then back into Cubase via S/PDIF, right?
Oh, both spdif and analog works, so to speak. The problem is that Cubase/Nuendo has this function to measure the latency through the hardware and back, in order to automatically compensate. However, it reports back zero latency, and that is of course not correct. It is a known issue with RME Fireface and is much discussed (see links in post#16 in this thread). I just wondered if anyone had come up with a solution yet.
Old 22nd April 2011
  #30
Lives for gear
 

That's a bummer. I suppose you could always send a recording of a snare hit out and back then use the Delay slider in the External Effects control pop up to manually adjust the compensation. View the result in the wave editor and tweak until until the phase of the waves match. Do this for your usual buffer setting and log the delay values for future reference.
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