The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 Search This Thread  Search This Forum  Search Reviews  Search Gear Database  Search Gear for sale  Search Gearslutz Go Advanced
overclocking, who does it?
Old 10th September 2007
  #1
Gear Maniac
 

overclocking, who does it?

So who here overclocks their machine? I would love to find out....I'm doing it as i type and i'm pretty happy with the results!
Old 11th September 2007
  #2
Lives for gear
 

HI,
if done correctly there are no issues with it.
done incorrectly can be a nightmare!

it used to be more common that it is now.

Scott
ADK
Old 11th September 2007
  #3
Gear Maniac
 

So far its been good and i've been doing it for awhile. I don't have too much knowledge on it, just what i've looked for on the internet. My BIOS doesn't let me do it manually, so I downloaded a free software and after some trial and error, it's working great. Basically I moved the clock up until my computer shut down, then brought it down from there. I do have to check my cpu temp though......
Old 11th September 2007
  #4
Lives for gear
 
Tibbon's Avatar
There is absolutely no reason to overclock in a studio environment.

Overclocking requires greater cooling, which generally requires more fans. More fans make more noise. That extra 3% you're getting out of your computer isn't worth it for the 3dB of additional noise you're getting in your studio. I'd far rather UNDERclock a computer and be able to fun with no fans. Seriously.

But the main problem is stability. You don't want to risk damaging your computer, nor do you want to risk a single crash during a session. Time is money. Computers crashing is unprofessional- moreso when it's from something stupid you did like overclocking your computer.

Why not just buy a faster computer to begin with? It's a studio. Take a double declining balance depreciation on it, and it will disappear into lower taxes quickly.

Overclocking for kids playing video games is fine. Stability doesn't matter. In a professional studio, such things have no place.
Old 11th September 2007
  #5
Lives for gear
 
rectifier's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tibbon View Post

Overclocking for kids playing video games is fine.
Any need?



signed,

a big kid
Old 11th September 2007
  #6
Gear Addict
 

@Tibbon: Agree button pushed

I never used overclocking.
I do not have plans to do so.
Reasons: See Tibbon's post in this thread.
Old 11th September 2007
  #7
theother
Guest
I did a couple of years back and have to say it isn't worth the trouble. It interfered with the PCI bus clocking and my audio cards started making trouble etc.

I only run factory settings now and everything is much more stable.

Machines are fast enough now. If I want something faster I go and buy a fast CPU right from the start.

I do a lot of Freezes with Cubase4 these days to keep the CPU & RAM low enough.
Old 11th September 2007
  #8
Lives for gear
 

Some CPUs will overclock 25-50% without additional voltage or cooling. Right now I'm running an Athlon 64 X2 3800+ at 2.5 GHz using less than stock voltage - that equates to an X2 5000+, or a free 25% increase in CPU power, which provides the ability to run more plugins and use lower latencies. The low end Core2 machines will often hit well over 3 GHz for even higher percentage overclocks. Any decent motherboard should lock the busses so that nothing runs out of specification.

The bottom line is that if you do your research and know what you are doing, are thorough, and make sure your system is stable, then there is no significant downside to overclocking.
Old 11th September 2007
  #9
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tibbon View Post
There is absolutely no reason to overclock in a studio environment.

Overclocking requires greater cooling, which generally requires more fans. More fans make more noise. That extra 3% you're getting out of your computer isn't worth it for the 3dB of additional noise you're getting in your studio. I'd far rather UNDERclock a computer and be able to fun with no fans. Seriously.

But the main problem is stability. You don't want to risk damaging your computer, nor do you want to risk a single crash during a session. Time is money. Computers crashing is unprofessional- moreso when it's from something stupid you did like overclocking your computer.

Why not just buy a faster computer to begin with? It's a studio. Take a double declining balance depreciation on it, and it will disappear into lower taxes quickly.

Overclocking for kids playing video games is fine. Stability doesn't matter. In a professional studio, such things have no place.

AHHH bull crap pal. this is such nonsense and typical of one who does not know what they are talking about.

1) all silicon that is made by AMD or Intel is on ONE DIE LINE.
in other words a celeron, an E6320 and a QX6850 and a Xeon ALL come from the same waffer.

the manufacturer strives (and succeeds 99.9%) to make the best silicon yelids.
so on monday they come to work and say hey we need to make E6320's we are getting low.
they then use the same waffer the 3.0G 1333FSB is made from to make the 1.86G.

they then lock the multiplier down.
overclocking is simply manipulating in the bios to acheive what the manufacturer did run the 1.86 at what is was designed to run at 3.0G 1333 FSB.

again if done correctly where nothing is out of spec, all you are doing is turning a 1.86 1066fsb in to a 3.0 1333 FSB.

there is NO added heat from this aside from the heat found in a 3.0G 1333.
with the right (and QUIET) heatsink there are no issues.

again if done correctly with nothing out of spec there are NO stability issues as again you are only turning a 1.86 in to a 3.0G

and saving a good amount of money.

i have had a E series chip up to 3.6G @ 1666FSB 100% stable with 4 UADs and a PCI RME card in there running for 48 hours looping audio.

FYI Intel is about to release 1666FSB processors this quarter. (xeon first)

i can always tell whats coming down the pike from them based on OC ability

Scott
ADK
Old 11th September 2007
  #10
Gear Guru
 
Animus's Avatar
 

I concur with Scott. No problem if you know what you are doing. I got a Q6600 clocked to 3 ghz and it's perfectly stable, using a 1:1 ratio. That's a sum 2.4 ghz increase amongst the 4 cores.
Old 11th September 2007
  #11
I recently bought a Q6600, and am interested i over clocking it..can any of you guys who know what you're doing point me to a a good source for the best way to go about it. I have searched the web, but there's so much info out there it's hard to know what's good and bad.

Here's my pc specs:

Core 2 Quad 2.4 GHZ PC / 1GB PC8000 DDR2 Ram / ASUS P5BE Plus Motherboard / Nvidia 128MB Graphics / Arctic Cooling FREEZER 7 CPU fan / FSP QUIET 400W PSU / 160GB HD / 120GB Firewire HD / 80 GB USB HD / Win XP Home SP2 (with latest updates) / EMU 1820m / M Audio Midisport 2x4 / UAD PCI 1 x2.
Old 11th September 2007
  #12
Lives for gear
 
AlexLakis's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by blayz2002 View Post
I recently bought a Q6600, and am interested i over clocking it..
One simple question: Why?

That's like buying a bazooka to kill your Thanksgiving turkey in the pen in the back yard, then asking what kind of scope you can put on it.
Old 12th September 2007
  #13
Gear Maniac
 
justyntime's Avatar
 

Maybe he hates turkeys!! lol

The better question is why not? If you can do it without any real adverse effect then do it!

I have a Athlon FX 4000+ dual 2.1 bumped to 2.6 without any issue. No added cooling, temps are well within range of spec and its stable as can be.
Old 12th September 2007
  #14
Lives for gear
 
slaves666's Avatar
I think its overkill at this point to OC. Can you honestly say a Q6600 isn't enough power for you?
Old 12th September 2007
  #15
Lives for gear
 
Tibbon's Avatar
If there is seriously zero liability in doing it 'correctly' why aren't all of the OEMs (Dell, Apple, Lennovo) selling overclocked systems out of the box in order to have faster/cheaper system than their competitors.

I am sure that you will find on a larger scale, that this is not a best practice for computing. I'm not sure that I would find many CTOs that would be happy about the idea of overclocking say... a large datacenter of computers, just because 'the silicon came from the same die'. Otherwise, every supercomputer farm would simply be running with cheaper, and cooler chips, and overclocking them.

Maybe for you, in your running environment you have ran into relatively few problems. However, there are surely problems and liabilities to be found in doing this otherwise- like I said the OEMs would be making more money on this, and increasing their stock prices accordingly. It's like a get-rich quick scheme, there's always a problem. Always, otherwise everyone else would be doing it too.

Again, I stand by my idea that this is not a best computer practice, and I do not advise anyone doing it in their commercial studio. Uptime, less errors, and greater reliability is worth far more than you save in buying cheaper computers/processors or having slightly more processing power. Processing power is rarely the bottleneck in studios these days imho.
Old 12th September 2007
  #16
Quote:
Originally Posted by slaves666 View Post
I think its overkill at this point to OC. Can you honestly say a Q6600 isn't enough power for you?
Hey power is addictive!....

No reason is I'm still using Logic 5.5.1 on PC..co's can't afford to swithc Mac right now, and Logic wont run on more than 1ghz of ram. So I got the most powerful CPU I could afford and the fastest ram, and 2 UAD 1's.

But I'd like to try and max out the power on the PC
Old 12th September 2007
  #17
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tibbon View Post
If there is seriously zero liability in doing it 'correctly' why aren't all of the OEMs (Dell, Apple, Lennovo) selling overclocked systems out of the box in order to have faster/cheaper system than their competitors.

I am sure that you will find on a larger scale, that this is not a best practice for computing. I'm not sure that I would find many CTOs that would be happy about the idea of overclocking say... a large datacenter of computers, just because 'the silicon came from the same die'. Otherwise, every supercomputer farm would simply be running with cheaper, and cooler chips, and overclocking them.

Maybe for you, in your running environment you have ran into relatively few problems. However, there are surely problems and liabilities to be found in doing this otherwise- like I said the OEMs would be making more money on this, and increasing their stock prices accordingly. It's like a get-rich quick scheme, there's always a problem. Always, otherwise everyone else would be doing it too.

Again, I stand by my idea that this is not a best computer practice, and I do not advise anyone doing it in their commercial studio. Uptime, less errors, and greater reliability is worth far more than you save in buying cheaper computers/processors or having slightly more processing power. Processing power is rarely the bottleneck in studios these days imho.
Umm Dell DOES sell Overclocked systems

Dell XPS Gaming Desktops

mind you they only started doing this in the last yr or so.
yrs ago (when i sold ALOT of OCed systems for audio and other uses) it was much more difficult to do than it is today.

for yrs (been awhile now) i was amazed when a return customer would call me up needing an upgrade only to find they were atill running an OCed system from 3-4 yrs prior.
does anyone remember the 300A celeron to 450Mhz?
this is the very processor that started OCing becoming popular back in sheesh when was it 98/99?
i can tell you i sold litterally thousands of overclocked combos (board chip and ram) as well as several hundred systems back then.

hey i dug up an old arcticle from Prorec.com (there is actually several of these roll your own articles over the yrs)
Articles - RYO2K Specification

surprised its still there

where he links to me For where to get OCed chips for PRO AUDIO.

Advanced Design of Kentucky! (we are now ADK)

oddly enough after many yrs of not doing overclocking i am now doing it again!

Scott
ADK
Old 12th September 2007
  #18
Gear Maniac
 
justyntime's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tibbon View Post
If there is seriously zero liability in doing it 'correctly' why aren't all of the OEMs (Dell, Apple, Lennovo) selling overclocked systems out of the box in order to have faster/cheaper system than their competitors.
Money is why. If you can buy a 2ghz system for say $800 or get the same system from dell or levono overclocked to 2.4ghz then why would anybody buy the 2.4ghz system for $1500.

If you buy an AMD 3600+ and an AMD 4400+ what exactly do you think is different between the two chips other than out of the box clock speed?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tibbon View Post
I am sure that you will find on a larger scale, that this is not a best practice for computing. I'm not sure that I would find many CTOs that would be happy about the idea of overclocking say... a large datacenter of computers, just because 'the silicon came from the same die'. Otherwise, every supercomputer farm would simply be running with cheaper, and cooler chips, and overclocking them.
A data center wouldnt overclock because of course its a void of warranty and datacenters have service agreements with places like IBM and EMC to come fix and/or replace stuff for them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tibbon View Post
Again, I stand by my idea that this is not a best computer practice, and I do not advise anyone doing it in their commercial studio. Uptime, less errors, and greater reliability is worth far more than you save in buying cheaper computers/processors or having slightly more processing power. Processing power is rarely the bottleneck in studios these days imho.
There are little tricks to make a product work better for thousands of things that for whatever reason the manufacturer doesn't do, why is this any different. If you don't really care about clock speeds thats cool but for some of us computers are like souping up cars and we want the most bang for our buck and want to tweak out systems to run to their top performance level (just like tweaking your OS to be better fit to run a DAW) and can do it with just a few keystrokes then hey why not.

Personally I have an OC'd DAW and my uptime is basically 24/7 with no hanging or otherwise odd behavior. I say go for it and if you encounter problems tone it down a bit or stop completely but why not give it a try.

I probably wouldnt do it in a commercial studio either (on my main system at least) because Id be more worried about warranty and extended service plan void.

To each his own.
Old 12th September 2007
  #19
Gear Nut
 
overclock's Avatar
 

overclocking a machine that records, edits and mixes multitrack audio?
i wouldn't dare.

overclocking a machine that is used as an instrument?
good fun.
Old 12th September 2007
  #20
Lives for gear
 
Tibbon's Avatar
But why is Dell only overclocking for their gaming market?
If it was such a stable thing, and the could reliabily offer more bang for the buck, they would do it for all of their markets. Again, for gamers it doesn't matter if a system crashes. Failure in a huge cluster, or lets say in an army or hospital computer is unacceptable.
I'm aware of how to overclock, and I must admit I've tried it when I had PCs. Now that I have Macs, I've said screw it. There are some chips out there that are 'suited' for overclocking, but I still think it's just a general waste of time and effort.
Home studios might be in different situations, but for a commercial place you want to put your time and efforts towards what is important- engineering and getting clients.
Old 13th September 2007
  #21
Lives for gear
 

Consider the performance benefits of overclocking a 2 GHz Core2 CPU up to 3 GHz. This degree of increase in clock is not at all uncommon with select "low-end" processors. In fact it is quite common to see the same terminal performance level from members of a given CPU family. Thus, if you know what you are doing, you can get a rather large increase in completely stable processing power for negligible cost by overclocking a "low-end" CPU.
Old 13th September 2007
  #22
Lives for gear
 
azwun25's Avatar
 

i looked into it because my mobo (Abit AI7, although outdated now) has advanced overclocking features. The power gain was not worth the heat issues since i have a "Prescott" P4 3.2ghz that you can broil a steak on! heh
Old 13th September 2007
  #23
Lives for gear
 
Tibbon's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by 12Bass View Post
Consider the performance benefits of overclocking a 2 GHz Core2 CPU up to 3 GHz. This degree of increase in clock is not at all uncommon with select "low-end" processors. In fact it is quite common to see the same terminal performance level from members of a given CPU family. Thus, if you know what you are doing, you can get a rather large increase in completely stable processing power for negligible cost by overclocking a "low-end" CPU.
Again, I don't really think that there is a "you know what you're going" process without some risk involved in potential downtime, processing errors or unreliability. If I had a computer farm that was calculating a DNA Genome or something important, or calculating trajectories of asteroids... I'm sure I'd have plenty of IT guys on staff that "know what they are doing" better than any audio engineer does about computers. I don't think it would be wise, in order to cut costs, to purchase cheaper chips, and overclock them.

I stand by that errors, crashing and downtime aren't acceptable. There is no such thing as a free lunch, and this is an example of trying to get a free lunch. Understand that it's like taking heroin and saying, "Oh I know what I'm doing". Just stupid in my book.
Old 13th September 2007
  #24
Gear Guru
 
Animus's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by slaves666 View Post
I think its overkill at this point to OC. Can you honestly say a Q6600 isn't enough power for you?
Maybe some people use their machines differently than you and require more juice. Are you just audio? Try throwing in a bunch of vstis. I have this main q6600 machine and 2 other fxteleport machines running additional vsti's. This allows me to to compose and mix "live". No bouncing.
Old 13th September 2007
  #25
Lives for gear
 
Tibbon's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Animus View Post
Maybe some people use their machines differently than you and require more juice. Are you just audio? Try throwing in a bunch of vstis. I have this main q6600 machine and 2 other fxteleport machines running additional vsti's. This allows me to to compose and mix "live". No bouncing.
Funny, I have pretty large electronic music compositions here and my Macbook Pro kicks out everything I need, and no less.

At the studio I freelance we have a single G5 1.8 with a Protools HD|3 system, which has enough processing power for pretty much any rock/pop mix we've came across. If you're using decent outboard, who needs a ton of compressor plugins? Either patch it in, or track it right the first time.

I could perhaps see someone doing a good many softsynths for composition using it, but I know a lot of composers, and even they get by most of the time with far far far less.
Old 13th September 2007
  #26
Gear Guru
 
Animus's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tibbon View Post
If there is seriously zero liability in doing it 'correctly' why aren't all of the OEMs (Dell, Apple, Lennovo) selling overclocked systems out of the box in order to have faster/cheaper system than their competitors.

I am sure that you will find on a larger scale, that this is not a best practice for computing. I'm not sure that I would find many CTOs that would be happy about the idea of overclocking say... a large datacenter of computers, just because 'the silicon came from the same die'. Otherwise, every supercomputer farm would simply be running with cheaper, and cooler chips, and overclocking them.

Maybe for you, in your running environment you have ran into relatively few problems. However, there are surely problems and liabilities to be found in doing this otherwise- like I said the OEMs would be making more money on this, and increasing their stock prices accordingly. It's like a get-rich quick scheme, there's always a problem. Always, otherwise everyone else would be doing it too.

Again, I stand by my idea that this is not a best computer practice, and I do not advise anyone doing it in their commercial studio. Uptime, less errors, and greater reliability is worth far more than you save in buying cheaper computers/processors or having slightly more processing power. Processing power is rarely the bottleneck in studios these days imho.
Don't be silly. ;-) There is nothing wrong with overclocking within reasonable limits of the processor. From what I understand, thats basically what the cpu manufacturers do in "tiers" of cpus (please refer to jschild's point about locking the multipliers down), and especially in the end of the line of a processor technology and it's limitations. For example, from what I gathered Apple and IBM were basically overclocking the end of the line g5 processors to get more life out of them, which is probably why they had to get crazy with all the liquid cooling. So if you are still using a G5 most likely it has already been overclocked, so you might want to quickly decommission that out of your "commercial" studio. ;-)
Old 13th September 2007
  #27
Gear Guru
 
Animus's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tibbon View Post
Funny, I have pretty large electronic music compositions here and my Macbook Pro kicks out everything I need, and no less.

At the studio I freelance we have a single G5 1.8 with a Protools HD|3 system, which has enough processing power for pretty much any rock/pop mix we've came across. If you're using decent outboard, who needs a ton of compressor plugins? Either patch it in, or track it right the first time.

I could perhaps see someone doing a good many softsynths for composition using it, but I know a lot of composers, and even they get by most of the time with far far far less.
lol, Most of the composers I have seen are using big render farms of multiple computers for orchestral templates and whatnot. And you just kind made it a moot point, as you are using a HD3 Protools system which is dsp so naturally you wouldn't need a lot of native power. ;-)

I think the point is that people don't work the same as you or your friends and have different needs. Maybe they should just stop all computer technological development right now since we [or you] have all we [you] need right now. Was that Bill Gates that once famously said we would never need more than 500k of ram? lol
Old 13th September 2007
  #28
Lives for gear
 
Tibbon's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Animus View Post
lol, Most of the composers I have seen are using big render farms of multiple computers for orchestral templates and whatnot. And you just kind made it a moot point, as you are using a HD3 Protools system which is dsp so naturally you wouldn't need a lot of native power. ;-)

I think the point is that people don't work the same as you or your friends and have different needs. Maybe they should just stop all computer technological development right now since we [or you] have all we [you] need right now. Was that Bill Gates that once famously said we would never need more than 500k of ram? lol
500K? (he actually said 640K)... my C64 is getting by just fine with 64K of RAM thank you, AND making music at that!
Old 13th September 2007
  #29
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tibbon View Post
Again, I don't really think that there is a "you know what you're going" process without some risk involved in potential downtime, processing errors or unreliability.
One reason why many of us overclock is because it gives us more powerful tools to work with (computers are tools, remember...). In some cases up to 50% more processing power can be gained by making some simple motherboard adjustments. Why not make the most efficient use of the tools at your disposal? Sensible overclocking allows this, with no significant downside....

Overclocking seems to be less prevalent in the Mac world where users seem to prefer a pre-configured, locked-down system. I would suspect that most Mac Pros are not overclockable, except by heroic measures. That's all well and good if you are looking for a computer which operates like a reliable, dedicated appliance. In the PC world, however, there seems to be a lot more flexibility in terms of hardware choice. This gives the common PC user far more overclocking options.

While there are risks during the initial overclocking phase where you test the limits of your system. I always ensure complete reliability before running any important applications. This is done by running programs like Memtest86 and Prime95 over long periods to ensure complete stability under full load. As a result of careful testing methodology, I have found absolutely no reliability problems in properly overclocked systems.

Unless you can provide empirical data to support your claims, I will have to conclude that your suppositions about the reliability of overclocked systems are unfounded.
Old 13th September 2007
  #30
Lives for gear
 
Tibbon's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by 12Bass View Post
Unless you can provide empirical data to support your claims, I will have to conclude that your suppositions about the reliability of overclocked systems are unfounded.
You make good points, but I feel that the fact that mission critical environments never ever ever overclock systems, even though it could give them a considerable performance boost, and that in no professional computing book or journal is it considered a best practice for professional environments, and that Dell/Apple/IBM either do not overclock out of the factory (or only for 'gaming' systems) has got to tell you something.

To second guess the entire professional computing industry is a pretty far jump.

If a car company could increase the performance of their car over their competitors for a zero dollar cost, with zero risk involved, then they would likely do it. If there is a loss of fuel efficiency, safety, maintence issues, etc... then they might not do it.

I'm willing to admit that it works for some people, and some people have more time to screw with this stuff than I do. Years ago I had the time, but no more. I just need a tool that works. Your needs may vary.
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Similar Threads
Thread
Thread Starter / Forum
Replies
bmsander / Music Computers
8

Forum Jump
Forum Jump