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Apogee Duet, professional two-channel firewire audio interface for the Mac Audio Interfaces
Old 12th September 2007
  #181
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Midi Solution For Duet?

What is a great way to get midi happening with Duet/Logic?

I have an 002 Rack (that I may get rid of) and I've always had midi be part of that interface.

Thank you
Old 13th September 2007
  #182
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hangman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kmshroom View Post
Those two are so different in price that there's no way you could possibly compare them in one sentence.

MBox2+ProTools = $495

Duet+LogicPro = $1,495

I don't know anyone who buys Logic Express, but even that costs almost double what the Digi option does;

Duet+LogicExpress = $795

you're gonna have to adjust those prices now. duet plus logic pro is actually $1000 and logic express (more like LE) is $695 I would gladly pay the extra for Apogee converters and the added functionality of logic.
Old 13th September 2007
  #183
Gear Nut
 

Is there any word yet on how the clocking is on the duet? I know the converters and preamps are the same as the ensemble but does that mean the clocking and analog circuitry is as well? To sum it up, is the duet sonically identical to two channels of the apogee ensemble?
Old 13th September 2007
  #184
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Jazzpunk's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by hangman View Post
you're gonna have to adjust those prices now. duet plus logic pro is actually $1000 and logic express (more like LE) is $695 I would gladly pay the extra for Apogee converters and the added functionality of logic.
Yeah, you really have to add on the price of one of the production tool kits for LE as well as the cost of additional plug ins (to match what you get with Logic) if we're going to do a price/value comparison. Without those things, PTLE doesn't even come close to offering what Logic does straight out of the box.
Old 13th September 2007
  #185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Fudge View Post
Is there any word yet on how the clocking is on the duet? I know the converters and preamps are the same as the ensemble but does that mean the clocking and analog circuitry is as well? To sum it up, is the duet sonically identical to two channels of the apogee ensemble?
Yeah I wish that Max dude would answer some more of the questions posted. Another question was, does the DUET also includes premium Apogee technologies such as “SoftLimit”, “UV22HR”, and “Intelliclock”?

Max?
Old 13th September 2007
  #186
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jslevin's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by chk027 View Post
Yeah I wish that Max dude would answer some more of the questions posted. Another question was, does the DUET also includes premium Apogee technologies such as “SoftLimit”, “UV22HR”, and “Intelliclock”?
I'll tell you what, I'll see if I can't pinch-hit for Max with some deductive reasoning ...

SoftLimit is an analog-stage soft-knee limiter intended to help users avoid digital clipping that may arise from transients or, more commonly, from stupidity. With digital headroom of 144 db, you'd think people would just turn their levels down, but old habits die hard.

Anyway, Duet may have SoftLimit but appears not to. It's not in any of the promotional materials, nor does any SoftLimit on/off switch appear to be on the Duet hardware or in the Maestro control panel for Duet.

Don't worry, though, you're not missing much. It does what it's supposed to, but it doesn't sound that great. And more to the point, there's no sonic advantage to using it, because you'd get better sonic quality as an end result by using a 10 db pad instead.

UV22HR is hardware-based dithering. It converts 24-bit digital audio to 20-bit or 16-bit digital signals. There is no reason for it to be on the Duet, which has no digital input with which to input a 24-bit signal, and no digital output with which to output the dithered 20-bit or 16-bit signal.

20-bit dithering used to be used for digital recording, either into 20-bit DAW interfaces (like the original Digidesign ADAT Bridge) or 20-bit ADATs. It's still used for DVD-Audio sometimes but not for much else. 16-bit dithering is used all the time, of course, for mastering CD's from 24-bit mixes, but most DAW users make use of software-based dithering, which is built into some multitrack and mastering programs and also some limiter plug-ins, like Sonnox Limiter or Waves L2 or L3. It is safe to say that most folks who own an Apogee product with UV22HR are not actually using it, because dithering in hardware is simply far less convenient than in software.

Intelliclock is really just clocking and re-clocking with minimized jitter. Duet has no word clock input nor any digital audio input from which to derive a clock. Still, it must have a clock for its converters, and it also must be able to sync to an external clock via Firewire. So we'll call this one a "maybe."

Just my opinion, but these technologies are not anything worth worrying about as far as the Duet is concerned. None of them would affect my buying decision, pro or con.

JSL
Old 13th September 2007
  #187
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jslevin View Post
I'll tell you what, I'll see if I can't pinch-hit for Max with some deductive reasoning ...

SoftLimit is an analog-stage soft-knee limiter intended to help users avoid digital clipping that may arise from transients or, more commonly, from stupidity. With digital headroom of 144 db, you'd think people would just turn their levels down, but old habits die hard.

Anyway, Duet may have SoftLimit but appears not to. It's not in any of the promotional materials, nor does any SoftLimit on/off switch appear to be on the Duet hardware or in the Maestro control panel for Duet.

Don't worry, though, you're not missing much. It does what it's supposed to, but it doesn't sound that great. And more to the point, there's no sonic advantage to using it, because you'd get better sonic quality as an end result by using a 10 db pad instead.

UV22HR is hardware-based dithering. It converts 24-bit digital audio to 20-bit or 16-bit digital signals. There is no reason for it to be on the Duet, which has no digital input with which to input a 24-bit signal, and no digital output with which to output the dithered 20-bit or 16-bit signal.

20-bit dithering used to be used for digital recording, either into 20-bit ADAT systems or 20-bit ADATs. It's still used for DVD-Audio sometimes but not for much else. 16-bit dithering is used all the time, of course, for mastering CD's from 24-bit mixes, but most DAW users make use of software-based dithering, which is built into some multitrack and mastering programs and also some limiter plug-ins, like Sony Dynamics or Waves L2 or L3. It is safe to say that most folks who own an Apogee product with UV22HR are not actually using it, because dithering in hardware is simply far less convenient than in software.

Intelliclock is really just clocking and re-clocking with minimized jitter. Duet has no word clock input nor any digital audio input from which to derive a clock. Still, it must have a clock for its converters, and it also must be able to sync to an external clock via Firewire. So we'll call this one a "maybe."

Just my opinion, but these technologies are not anything worth worrying about as far as the Duet is concerned. None of them would affect my buying decision, pro or con.

JSL
Thank You for your time, and the straight shot answers, you obviously know your stuff.

Good to see a philly boy round here, I'm just outside the city.

I think I'm all in for the Duet too

Thanks again...
Old 13th September 2007
  #188
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Beastie's Avatar
 

great BUT...

no midi?

shame
Old 13th September 2007
  #189
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smoore98's Avatar
 

Most MIDI is done through USB. I have not have to use a MIDI input on my Fireface since I bought it.

Scott
Old 13th September 2007
  #190
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Silver Sonya's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beastie View Post
no midi?

shame
MIDI is so 1987.
USB takes care of that these days. I haven't used a real MIDI cable in ages.

- c
Old 13th September 2007
  #191
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line level signal

Have I understod this correctly? The duet dosen't accept line level signals i.e from an external micpre? Am I forced to use the onboard pre's?
Old 13th September 2007
  #192
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DrDeltaM's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mattec View Post
Have I understod this correctly? The duet dosen't accept line level signals i.e from an external micpre? Am I forced to use the onboard pre's?
You understood wrong, you can use the line inputs, or switch the XLR inputs to line level instead of mic pre.
Old 13th September 2007
  #193
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDeltaM View Post
You understood wrong, you can use the line inputs, or switch the XLR inputs to line level instead of mic pre.
cool, thanks.
Old 14th September 2007
  #194
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jslevin View Post
I'll tell you what, I'll see if I can't pinch-hit for Max with some deductive reasoning ...

Intelliclock is really just clocking and re-clocking with minimized jitter. Duet has no word clock input nor any digital audio input from which to derive a clock. Still, it must have a clock for its converters, and it also must be able to sync to an external clock via Firewire. So we'll call this one a "maybe."

Just my opinion, but these technologies are not anything worth worrying about as far as the Duet is concerned. None of them would affect my buying decision, pro or con.

JSL
Thanks Jslevin, I think you're probabbly right, not that important in the long term and I'm sure you can reclock it with Audio Midi Setup if need be.
Old 15th September 2007
  #195
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MixShmix View Post
I believe the breakout cable was necessary as making room for two XLR and four 1/4" connectors would have made the device quite a bit larger and uglier. I've heard from a reliable source that there will be a much heftier and longer multicore breakout cable available. It will terminate with a connector "brick", similar to a small AC plug strip that can lay on the floor or be screwed under, or on the side of a desk.
I'm all over this- if apogee doesn't make this, this is a shoo in for a third party manufacturer.
Old 15th September 2007
  #196
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDeltaM View Post
You understood wrong, you can use the line inputs, or switch the XLR inputs to line level instead of mic pre.
Don't see that anywhere in apogees lit about the duet. What's your source for this?
Old 15th September 2007
  #197
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jslevin View Post
I'll tell you what, I'll see if I can't pinch-hit for Max with some deductive reasoning ...

JSL
I just read an article in my hometown newspaper of a band "The Last Call". They said you did some work on a release at Turtle Studio. I said, damn that sounds familiar....... Old City, Philly.

They gave you some props.......

thought I would share that..........
Old 15th September 2007
  #198
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jordanh's Avatar
 

perhaps my ensemble will have a little brother soon...
Old 16th September 2007
  #199
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numrologst's Avatar
some people are crazy. The duet is a cool product.

Everyone has to get out of the Mbox...McStudio mindframe.

No one is ever going to come out with a $500 product that does everything. No one is ever going to come out with a $500 product make a professional studio function.

The Duet wasn't made to do that. The mbox and digi le products were designed to give those who don't know any better, the idea that you can have a pro studio that fits in your back pack. Come on guys! I don't mean to be harsh, but no one is going to run a professional studio on 2io or 8io and it's pretty damn hard to do so with 16io.

I am not the type of guy that buys into pro audio marketing. But I have to be honest when I saw the duet, I was pretty psyched.

It's not a do-all product, they don't mean for it to be something you can run a studio off of.

It's meant to be a product do give you better than decent recording capabilities...anywhere
Old 16th September 2007
  #200
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most of the questions on this thread can be answered on the apple site under logic studio by clicking on the duet link. it covers everything from the combined headphone out to the use of unbalanced outs and powering from the firewire bus.
What i'm curious about is who is writing and updating the drivers? it seems like it might be apple ? does anyone know yet ? thanks.
Old 17th September 2007
  #201
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jslevin's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by numrologst View Post
The Duet wasn't made to do that. The mbox and digi le products were designed to give those who don't know any better, the idea that you can have a pro studio that fits in your back pack. Come on guys!
I don't know where you get the idea that Digidesign is more guilty of that than others. Pro Tools LE purports to be a portable version of the industry-standard studio software, and it delivers on that. It's all the other native systems that purport to be a total replacement, not Pro Tools LE.

JSL
Old 17th September 2007
  #202
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Right now I use XLR to TRS cables to rung the balanced 1/4 inch outs from my interface to the XLR ins on my A7s. Could I just plug those same cables into the line outs on this and have it work?

Also, the cables I use for the monitors aare very well shielded, but I sometimmes pick up bursts of static when people use cellphones in the vicinity from some of the unbalanced cables in my setup. Would there be a potential for the breakout cable to pick up static from cellphones?

If the answers to these questions are yes and no, respectively, I will probably get one just to improve the quality of my monitoring chain.
Old 17th September 2007
  #203
ok, but in the end...how does Duet sound?
has anyone tried it yet?
Old 17th September 2007
  #204
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blaugruen7's Avatar
it should sound like the ensemble, same technology after what apogee is saying...
Old 17th September 2007
  #205
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DrKoss's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by sigmatibet View Post
ok, but in the end...how does Duet sound?
has anyone tried it yet?
I have both the ensemble and duet here and they sound very very similar - they both sound great. Looking forward to taking the duet for a test drive with Logic Studio this week - will let you know what i discover.
Old 17th September 2007
  #206
this is good news to my ears, and my wallet, too!
Old 17th September 2007
  #207
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BryanGamet's Avatar
 

how did you get the duet so quickly?
every retailer, even the ones selling the duet and even calling apogee direct have stated that it wont ship til the last week of september
Old 17th September 2007
  #208
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DrKoss's Avatar
 

Beta tester!
Old 17th September 2007
  #209
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrKoss View Post
Beta tester!
God bless you!
Old 17th September 2007
  #210
Hey Max,

A couple of weeks ago when you were hinting at a DC powered version of the Ensemble... was it some sly way of referencing this new product, the Duet, or is Apogee still planning on that?

Can you use two Duets together in aggregate mode?

Can you give me a good reason or upsell me on an Ensemble instead of using 2 Duets if my only requirement is 4 mic inputs? I'd gladly pay more for better quality, but if the Duet is up to snuff, is there a compelling reason to besides the routing flexibility?
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