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Apogee Duet, professional two-channel firewire audio interface for the Mac Audio Interfaces
Old 10th September 2007
  #121
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I like the idea of the cables, bet it wouldn't be as portable otherwise... That is a big deal to me, I even think the Mbox is to big at times.
Old 10th September 2007
  #122
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darkbass's Avatar
 

Talking Duet with Pro Tools LE 7.3

Can you please advise on how DUET interfaces with PRO TOOLS LE 7.3 + MBOX Pro?

thanx

RR
Old 10th September 2007
  #123
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fredrik@mi7's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by darkbass View Post
Can you please advise on how DUET interfaces with PRO TOOLS LE 7.3 + MBOX Pro?
Well, it doesn't.
Old 10th September 2007
  #124
Gear Maniac
 

By Max: "Finally the Duet breakout cable is covered under Apogee's warranty. As long as you refrain from using it as a cat o' nine tails to punish your fellow musicians for missing their cue, forgetting the lyrics, or putting yellow mustard on your pastrami sandwich, We dont forsee any problems."


What if I LIKE yellow mustard on pastrami?

Now mayonnaise on hamburgers....that's disgusting.



I think this is a great portable device. Of course, most of us wish it had balanced line in/out, a/c power, s/pdif, AES and word clock...and aren't those mostly the specs for the Rosetta 200 or the Ensemble?
Old 10th September 2007
  #125
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Max,

How soon until the first shipments will be arriving to dealers?
Old 10th September 2007
  #126
Here for the gear
 

I'm tipping the retailers will tack a huge markup on these here in Australia! (Like they usually do....) I might be better getting one sent over straight from the states, that way I'll only pay postage and exchange rate.
(After I wait to see if anyone has bugs and issues of course...lol)
Old 11th September 2007
  #127
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jslevin's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fredrik View Post
Digidesign are the ones that are excluding them selves by not suporting core audio like evryone else IMO.
True, but Digidesign does support AES/EBU, S/PDIF and ADAT optical. CoreAudio is just another standard.

It is safe to say that Digidesign is not concerned with supporting other audio interfaces, and Apogee is not concerned with Pro Tools users buying this product.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazzpunk View Post
It's a smart and aggressive play to cut into the MBox market and lure potential customers over to Logic.
Perhaps. Or perhaps they're just saving a boatload in hardware costs by eliminating any stand-alone capability. No need for digital i/o on the unit or the breakout cable, no need for resolution or clock switches or indicators -- these and many other features are controlled strictly in software, which means you don't have to deal with user control in hardware. Just look at all the knobs and lights they didn't have to include. Remember, this thing (probably) sounds terrific and is less than 500 bucks!

I don't know that Duet competes in the same market as Mbox at all. Mbox is not an option for those who expect top sonic quality (in a single device), and Duet is not an option for those who want (effortless) compatibility with pro studios.

It will be nice if Apogee can replace their Mini line with a stand-alone box that incorporates the Duet/Ensemble preamp and converter technology. This would serve not only Digidesign customers, but also non-computer-based applications. And even for CoreAudio users, if you have multiple converters in the system, it's still simpler/better to use a single interface/driver than to use aggregated interface. I'd pay an extra $100 for the option to strap this thing onto a ULN-2, or Mbox, or Digi001/2/3, or Firebox ... it would still be a great deal at that price.

JSL
Old 11th September 2007
  #128
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jslevin's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Max View Post
There are some real advantages to the breakout cable. First, using a breakout allowed us to create an ergonomic interface that looks really great on your desktop. If the connectors were build in, Duet would not have this cool form factor. Once you hold a Duet and cable in hand and see how cool it is that you can literally fit it in your front pockets, you immediately get it.
Not to dog on your product or its design, Max, but the idea that this is good ergonomics is pretty silly. Duet only looks sleek and cool when it's in your hand. Once it's hooked up, it's still a bunch of cables sticking out, it's just through a breakout cable.

So the upshot is that the cool/sleek element is really just for the magazine ads, because unlike, say, an iMac, it isn't going to be particularly cool or sleek or ergonomic on anybody's desk. (For comparisons, consider the almost absurdly huge and boxy Mbox series on the one hand -- I've had apartments smaller than the Mbox 2 Pro -- or the Presonus Firestudio remote system on the other. On the whole, the Duet isn't doing too badly.)

This doesn't reflect badly on the quality of the product, at least not to me, it's just kind of amusing.

Totally agree on the stress relief part. As for the warranty coverage, that's only a comfort to me if Apogee is promising an aggressive advance-replacement policy on the breakout cable. Otherwise, as the earlier question suggested, first problem you have with any connector, your whole system is kaput. I will add that in the past, my experience with Apogee support has always been very good to excellent.

JSL
Old 11th September 2007
  #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jslevin View Post
True, but Digidesign does support AES/EBU, S/PDIF and ADAT optical. CoreAudio is just another standard.
Agreed. But my guess is that the objective was to bring high quality conversion at a low price by leaving out the options you mentioned. Core audio is what is used on the mac except by Digi after all.
Old 11th September 2007
  #130
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thermos's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by jslevin View Post
Not to dog on your product or its design, Max, but the idea that this is good ergonomics is pretty silly. Duet only looks sleek and cool when it's in your hand. Once it's hooked up, it's still a bunch of cables sticking out, it's just through a breakout cable.


JSL

Man, totally have to disagree. The thing is SMALL, and thin. That means it fits basically anywhere. For traveling, the size is such a great thing. A breakout cable doesn't add much bulk to the traveling size, and I believe the tradeoff of how it looks on your desk is more than worth it. Not to mention, how much it brings the price down. I think it looks awesome.
Old 11th September 2007
  #131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thermos View Post
Man, totally have to disagree. The thing is SMALL, and thin. That means it fits basically anywhere. For traveling, the size is such a great thing. A breakout cable doesn't add much bulk to the traveling size, and I believe the tradeoff of how it looks on your desk is more than worth it. Not to mention, how much it brings the price down. I think it looks awesome.
+1

The breakout cable is a big selling point for me.
Old 11th September 2007
  #132
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Jazzpunk's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jslevin View Post
I don't know that Duet competes in the same market as Mbox at all. Mbox is not an option for those who expect top sonic quality (in a single device), and Duet is not an option for those who want (effortless) compatibility with pro studios.
JSL
I think the Duet may be an option for those on a budget hoping to have the ability to record files that would even be worth transferring to a 'pro studio'. The Mbox most certainly is not.

Obviously the duet is the next addition in what will presumeably be an expanding line born of the Apogee/Apple partnership. I'm sure the exclusion of Digi compatibility is a deliberate move on the part of Apple.

Digi knows what's coming which is why they have mentioned a new version of LE that will bypass the hardware 'dongle' all together.
Old 11th September 2007
  #133
Gear Addict
 
smoore98's Avatar
 

I ordered mine from Mercenary today. Adam was very helpful and even called Apogee for me to get a couple of questions answered. I also ordered the carry bag that goes with it. Will report how it compares to the RME Fireface quality when I get it.

It is supposed to ship to me the last week in this month.

Scott
Old 11th September 2007
  #134
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i also like the breakout cable - no issues....

max is 'kind of' ignoring my soft limit question... so as the speculative one in the group

what if....

logic 8 lets you run plugs in line before it is tracked - just a guess - imagine the possibilities - pending the speed of your computer etc....

what do you think?

plausible?

-mike
Old 11th September 2007
  #135
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jacko's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ToddS View Post
Yes, Max from Apogee said as much earlier in the thread.

Duet.... all I can say is wow. First Ensemble, then Symphony, Symhony Mobile, now this? If Logic 8 ever comes out, its over.

APOGEE WINS!
I have been recording bands (mainly rock bands) for 10 years. 9 years in Logic and last year in Pro Tools. And I realize that there is no possibility of Logic being a replacement for Pro Tools. I wish it was...
Old 11th September 2007
  #136
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Quote:
It's so scary good we just hope they don't build 8 and 16 channel units of it while we still have Rosetta-800's and AD-16x's and DA-16x's in stock!!!
Isn't that essentially what the Ensemble is?

Quote:
Not only can't you use this as a stand-alone AD/DA, you can't even decouple the preamps from the converter (or interface) from what I can tell. Big F-U to Digidesign customers.
Why does that have to be considered an "F-U" to anyone? This is a relatively inexpensive box designed to do one thing. Adding digital I/O or any of the other things people want would raise the price. That's fine as some people would be willing to pay extra for those features, but the $500 price point is somewhat "magical" and to have a unit of this quality at that price point is great. The fact that it doesn't have digital I/O doesnt' meant that Apogee is saying "F-U" to anyone...it just means that this isn't a standalone converter.

Quote:
Digidesign are the ones that are excluding them selves by not suporting core audio like evryone else IMO.
What exactly are they excluding themselves from? They're primarily a hardware company, so by not supporting core audio they are excluding everyone but themselves, which is what they want to do. Offerign Core Audio support for Pro Tools would certainly cut into their sales.

Quote:
what if....

logic 8 lets you run plugs in line before it is tracked
Assuming you mean you could actually record the audio outpu of those plugins...why would you want to do that?
Old 11th September 2007
  #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazzpunk View Post

Digi knows what's coming which is why they have mentioned a new version of LE that will bypass the hardware 'dongle' all together.
Can you point me to this information please.
Old 11th September 2007
  #138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duardo View Post
What exactly are they excluding themselves from?
They are excluding them selves from this perticular product being used with their app.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Duardo View Post
Offerign Core Audio support for Pro Tools would certainly cut into their sales.
So will this thing.
Old 11th September 2007
  #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Gruv View Post

what if....

logic 8 lets you run plugs in line before it is tracked - just a guess - imagine the possibilities - pending the speed of your computer etc....

what do you think?

plausible?

-mike
You mean recording plugin effects to disk? You can already do that. Just make an input object in the environment and insert the plugs you want on that input object channel. Last, set the output of the input object to the audio track you wish to record to.
Old 11th September 2007
  #140
pro
Gear Addict
 
pro's Avatar
 

Unbalanced + Bus power sounds noisy ?

MBP already have Digital I/O, used with the Duet under an aggregate set-up gives you good I/O options. However, I need to know what are the technical trade offs of using core-audio under aggregate setups? added latency? less stable? added noise?


Duet is designed to be used in the wild? Single-ended interfaces have added noise and distortion introduced directly into the signal path. I have often had problems with, RFI EMI Ground-Loop with FW Devices on portables.


I gotta wonder???
Old 11th September 2007
  #141
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Jazzpunk's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rev. Robb View Post
Can you point me to this information please.
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/new-p...-products.html
Old 11th September 2007
  #142
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tengu's Avatar
Say I am using seperate converters for monitoring, configured in an aggregate device with the Duet. Are the outputs from the Duet capable of running a stereo buss into a hardware compressor?

Will the output level be strong enough for this application?
Old 11th September 2007
  #143
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dlmorley's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by jslevin View Post
True, but Digidesign does support AES/EBU, S/PDIF and ADAT optical. CoreAudio is just another standard.

JSL
They don't for $500
Old 11th September 2007
  #144
my setup with Duet is figured out as follows:

Cubase multi outs (Daw output) go to Dangerous 2busLT.

Dangerous 2busLT L-R mains go to Duet XLR inputs.

Duet goes back to computer via FW.

I monitor through Duet outputs.

in this case there's no need for digital I/O, since I go back to the box.

The only question is if Duet's quality is worth as it seems.
Old 11th September 2007
  #145
Gear Addict
 
eskay's Avatar
 

Thumbs down Aggregated....I don't know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pro View Post
MBP already have Digital I/O, used with the Duet under an aggregate set-up gives you good I/O options. However, I need to know what are the technical trade offs of using core-audio under aggregate setups? added latency? less stable? added noise?


Duet is designed to be used in the wild? Single-ended interfaces have added noise and distortion introduced directly into the signal path. I have often had problems with, RFI EMI Ground-Loop with FW Devices on portables.


I gotta wonder???
Again I think they really missed the boat by not having the phones output be seperate from the main output. Max from Apogee says use the headphone out from your mac with the Duet using aggregated devices, but the phone output is not strong enough in a loud club environment to be heard. I'm talking about people using this in a live venue environment. Also using aggregated devices with G4 laptops has been pretty worthless. Some manufactures don't play well together and the latency is ****!!!!
Also I don't want the headphone output to use the same D/A as the main out. Yes I do want a good heaphone out, but I wouldn't mix on my headphones either. I'm sure 90% of the people wont. So for 100 or 200 dollars give us a "Live" version where we can have 4 outs.

Old 11th September 2007
  #146
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dlmorley's Avatar
then get an inline heaphone amplifer to boost the mac output.
What you want is understandable, but there are many solutions to your wishes. I would say before they fitted a second DA chip, they would fit Digital I/O anyway and that would suit many more people. But then it wouldn't cost what it does....
Old 11th September 2007
  #147
Gear Addict
 
eskay's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dlmorley View Post
then get an inline heaphone amplifer to boost the mac output.
What you want is understandable, but there are many solutions to your wishes. I would say before they fitted a second DA chip, they would fit Digital I/O anyway and that would suit many more people. But then it wouldn't cost what it does....
Ok, so list me the solutions.....
I don't want add an inline headphone amplifier, as this adds more things to get, not making it an ideal solution. I want an all in one solution. Adding a cheaper d/a output for heaphones is not something far fetched. Besides this is strongly needed for people doing voice overs or overdubs without needing an external console. If this is the ultimate road warrior as apogee is saying than a seperate headphone out is needed, not just for a live situation, but most importantly from a recording perspective. I travel a whole lot and to be able to record in the hotels will be amazing with this quality. A headphone out would make it that I don't need anything else when creating a cue out for the vocalist.
As to your solutions, have you used aggregated devices successfully? If you have, please specify exactly which interfaces with what software, cause for me it hasn't worked under real world situations.
Old 11th September 2007
  #148
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kmshroom's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dlmorley View Post
They don't for $500
Yes they do. The Mbox2 has digital...
Old 11th September 2007
  #149
Lives for gear
 

@ eskey just get a passive headphone attenuator.
Old 11th September 2007
  #150
Gear Maniac
 
kmshroom's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by H-Rezz View Post
The choice would be Mbox/P.Tools or Apogee/Logic , wonder what people would choose ?
Those two are so different in price that there's no way you could possibly compare them in one sentence.

MBox2+ProTools = $495

Duet+LogicPro = $1,495

I don't know anyone who buys Logic Express, but even that costs almost double what the Digi option does;

Duet+LogicExpress = $795
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