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Apogee Duet, professional two-channel firewire audio interface for the Mac Audio Interfaces
Old 5th May 2008
  #841
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macgee's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by kincept View Post
what are the best monitors to use with the duet? I was thinking of the mackie mr5 but the unbalanced is in a RCA form.
when i used my DUET with my studio setup i used them with Genelec 8040 which have balanced inputs. i have a monitor controller though so i only need to plug the DUET into that which in turn fed my Genelec

if i were you i would not buy the best speakers for the interface but rather buy the best speakers for your studio and that you can afford

i've never tried the Mackie's

RCA is unbalanced anyways and will work perfect with the DUET however i would opt for speakers that have balanced connections that also support unbalanced using TS cables

good luck
Old 5th May 2008
  #842
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macleodgrant View Post
when i used my DUET with my studio setup i used them with Genelec 8040 which have balanced inputs. i have a monitor controller though so i only need to plug the DUET into that which in turn fed my Genelec

if i were you i would not buy the best speakers for the interface but rather buy the best speakers for your studio and that you can afford

i've never tried the Mackie's

RCA is unbalanced anyways and will work perfect with the DUET however i would opt for speakers that have balanced connections that also support unbalanced using TS cables

good luck
Thanks for answering my posts you have been a great help!

So do the RCA inputs make the sound worse? vs TRS
Old 5th May 2008
  #843
Gear Maniac
 

IF I added in a cheap mixer (mackie makes one for 100 bucks) would that change the sound of the DUET? through speakers through monitors?
Old 6th May 2008
  #844
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jslevin's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by kincept View Post
what are the best monitors to use with the duet? I was thinking of the mackie mr5 but the unbalanced is in a RCA form.
Very good advice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kincept View Post
IF I added in a cheap mixer (mackie makes one for 100 bucks) would that change the sound of the DUET? through speakers through monitors?
Anything in the signal path is going to change the sound, and if it's something inexpensive, it won't be for the better. How do you intend to connect and use the mixer in the setup?

JSL
Old 6th May 2008
  #845
Gear Maniac
 

lets just forget about the mixer,
I just want monitors, nothing over 300 bucks.
I was looking at the mackies but noticed they dont except unbalanced trs like the duet has.
Some advised not to use RCA unbalanced inputs on the monitors ? I guess because its not a good connection to use from the duet?

then I wondered is it better to find a monitor that accepts unbalanced trs? instead of via rca?
Old 6th May 2008
  #846
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staudio's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kincept View Post
lets just forget about the mixer,
I just want monitors, nothing over 300 bucks.
I was looking at the mackies but noticed they dont except unbalanced trs like the duet has.
Some advised not to use RCA unbalanced inputs on the monitors ? I guess because its not a good connection to use from the duet?

then I wondered is it better to find a monitor that accepts unbalanced trs? instead of via rca?
Many monitors with balanced inputs will accept an unbalanced signal if connected using the proper cables, the specifics of the wiring of the cables can vary depending on the speakers, you should contact the manufacturer for those details.

Unbalanced is perfectly good for any use, as long as the length of the cables is kept as short as possible. I don't use any unbalanced cable that is longer than 10 feet. I usually try to keep them shorter than 6 feet if possible. The Duet is a very capable unit.
Old 6th May 2008
  #847
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macgee's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by kincept View Post
lets just forget about the mixer,
I just want monitors, nothing over 300 bucks.
I was looking at the mackies but noticed they dont except unbalanced trs like the duet has.
Some advised not to use RCA unbalanced inputs on the monitors ? I guess because its not a good connection to use from the duet?

then I wondered is it better to find a monitor that accepts unbalanced trs? instead of via rca?
no worries, we hope that you can get this sorted

RCA will work fine but it's just not a good connector. i don't really think you would notice the difference though

ideally, especially for software controlled interfaces you should have some sort of monitor controller between the interface and the speakers to protect your speakers. you should then mute output to the speakers until the computer has started up properly since you will get clicks and pops when sample rate is changing or when the drivers kick in on boot up. it would change the sound a little but not by much that you would have to worry about

it is possible to connect from unbalanced TS to XLR unbalanced if you modify the cable and most importantly if the XLR connection on the monitors support it
Old 7th May 2008
  #848
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by macleodgrant View Post
no worries, we hope that you can get this sorted

RCA will work fine but it's just not a good connector. i don't really think you would notice the difference though

ideally, especially for software controlled interfaces you should have some sort of monitor controller between the interface and the speakers to protect your speakers. you should then mute output to the speakers until the computer has started up properly since you will get clicks and pops when sample rate is changing or when the drivers kick in on boot up. it would change the sound a little but not by much that you would have to worry about

it is possible to connect from unbalanced TS to XLR unbalanced if you modify the cable and most importantly if the XLR connection on the monitors support it

Do i really need a monitor controller< what is the difference between monitor controller and a mixer?
Old 7th May 2008
  #849
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macgee's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by kincept View Post
Do i really need a monitor controller< what is the difference between monitor controller and a mixer?
well it's the same thing in a way - i think there's more electronics in a full blown mixer that can and generally does affect the sound (and this is desirable in cases) whereas the monitor controller is geared towards giving you specific monitoring functions without affecting your sound - that's why passive monitor controllers are the best

fwiw i used to use the mackie 1402VLZ Pro for monitoring before i got the big know however i reckon i'm going to upgrade now again
Old 9th May 2008
  #850
Quote:
Originally Posted by kincept View Post
Do i really need a monitor controller< what is the difference between monitor controller and a mixer?
According to the Apogee guy that has posted on GS regularly the monitor controller on the duet is a digitally controlled analogue volume control, so i.e. you don't loose bit depth by not having it at 0.

So it's pointless putting a further monitor controller in the chain.
Old 9th May 2008
  #851
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macgee's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by blayz2002 View Post
According to the Apogee guy that has posted on GS regularly the monitor controller on the duet is a digitally controlled analogue volume control, so i.e. you don't loose bit depth by not having it at 0.

So it's pointless putting a further monitor controller in the chain.
you can essentially avoid a mixer if you're in the habit of turning on your monitors last once everything else is up and running and initialised. my speakers are set at a specific volume with a controller between them and my interface. the controller has a hardware mute button which can protect them from bursts and interface initialisation and sample rate settings changes, etc

even then you can still get burts and random sounds so it's good to have hardware control for immediate adjustment if necessary - that mute button has come in might handy at times. when you start up the computer, you're relying on the settings to be remembered at what you had them on the DUET

anyways,just a suggestion which i'm sure many would agree with
Old 10th May 2008
  #852
Quote:
Originally Posted by macleodgrant View Post
you can essentially avoid a mixer if you're in the habit of turning on your monitors last once everything else is up and running and initialised. my speakers are set at a specific volume with a controller between them and my interface. the controller has a hardware mute button which can protect them from bursts and interface initialisation and sample rate settings changes, etc

even then you can still get burts and random sounds so it's good to have hardware control for immediate adjustment if necessary - that mute button has come in might handy at times. when you start up the computer, you're relying on the settings to be remembered at what you had them on the DUET

anyways,just a suggestion which i'm sure many would agree with
I used to use a SM Pro passive controller, but don't use it anymore now with the Duet. I tend to turn my monitors on first, and never have any issues with pops and stuff, but I also have a tendency to keep the level turned down (in between monitoring) so I know most f the time when I turn on the mac there's not going to be a problem, as the duet holds the last level you left it at.
Old 10th May 2008
  #853
Gear Addict
 

Can two Apogee Duets be used in Logic

Im asking this question every couple of months--so here we go again!!!
has anybody tried two Apogee Duets together in Logic
I do not want the form factor of the ensemble --I want to use two Duets

I have an Apogee Duet and love the sound--its sounds better to my
ears than the Digidesign 96i I once owned.
I need one more output to process mono tracks through my Korg-MS-20
and EH Memory Man Vintage and Space Echo 201
Is it possible to use 2 x Apogee Duets in Logic


thanks again
David
Old 10th May 2008
  #854
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blayz2002 View Post
According to the Apogee guy that has posted on GS regularly the monitor controller on the duet is a digitally controlled analogue volume control, so i.e. you don't loose bit depth by not having it at 0.

So it's pointless putting a further monitor controller in the chain.
I assume you mean Max. However I doubt he said that. The input levels in the Duet are analogue gain controls, but the output level is digital. It occurs inside the ADC/DAC chip.

This does however mirror some of other other discussions raging about GS at the moment. So long as the noise floor of the whole system is greater than the LSB of the DAC (something that is hard to avoid with a 24 bit device - even it if it only good for 21 bits) then you still don't lose any resolution, because the resolution is noise limited and not bit depth limited.
Old 12th May 2008
  #855
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by d2ba View Post
Im asking this question every couple of months--so here we go again!!!
has anybody tried two Apogee Duets together in Logic
I do not want the form factor of the ensemble --I want to use two Duets

I have an Apogee Duet and love the sound--its sounds better to my
ears than the Digidesign 96i I once owned.
I need one more output to process mono tracks through my Korg-MS-20
and EH Memory Man Vintage and Space Echo 201
Is it possible to use 2 x Apogee Duets in Logic


thanks again
David
yes, you can create a aggregate device in audio/midi setup (in your utilities folder). And then once in logic pick the aggregate device as you're input/output.
Old 12th May 2008
  #856
Gear Addict
 

Im getting emails from the Logic Users group saying
"
Apogee that they have disabled the ability to do this with two or more Duets.
You can only do this with one duet and one other device which is not a duet"


Bet you no one in the world has even tried with two duets
Old 12th May 2008
  #857
Quote:
Originally Posted by d2ba View Post
Im getting emails from the Logic Users group saying
"
Apogee that they have disabled the ability to do this with two or more Duets.
You can only do this with one duet and one other device which is not a duet"


Bet you no one in the world has even tried with two duets

Confirmation here: Apogee Duet, professional two-channel firewire audio interface for the Mac
Old 14th May 2008
  #858
Gear Maniac
 

Does anyone hear have these problems, :
When I am monitoring through software the mic sound through my headphones
sounds tiny, But records fine, I shut off software monitoring and it sounds fine.
Its just hearing it through my headphones that the problem is.

Also one of my LED lights does not light up all the way does that matter?
Old 14th May 2008
  #859
TCW
Gear Maniac
 
TCW's Avatar
 

Quick Duet question...

Can you record though one 1/4" input and one XLR input at the same time, or is it "either/or"? For example, a keyboard (mono) and a mic (XLR)

Thanks!
Old 14th May 2008
  #860
Gear Nut
 

yes, you can;
Old 14th May 2008
  #861
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Vocalvoodoo's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TCW View Post
Quick Duet question...

Can you record though one 1/4" input and one XLR input at the same time, or is it "either/or"? For example, a keyboard (mono) and a mic (XLR)

Thanks!
You can, but not both on the same channel at the same time. For example, you'd have to you use the 1/4" on channel one and the XLR on channel 2 to record both at the same time.
Old 14th May 2008
  #862
Quote:
Originally Posted by kincept View Post
Does anyone hear have these problems, :
When I am monitoring through software the mic sound through my headphones
sounds tiny, But records fine, I shut off software monitoring and it sounds fine.
Its just hearing it through my headphones that the problem is.
This sounds like you are monitoring via software and direct (Maestro) at the same time...you need to kil one or the other.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kincept View Post
Also one of my LED lights does not light up all the way does that matter?
If this is on incoming and outdoing signals then does sound like a hardware issue...what about the signal in Maestro?
Old 14th May 2008
  #863
Gear Maniac
 

its on the output, I am not software monitoring, and maestro monitoring. I have maestro software set to none and logic set to software monitoring and it gives that sound on the headphones.

the LED light the left side 4th one never lights up fully.
Old 14th May 2008
  #864
Gear Maniac
 

O the maestro signal is fine.
Old 15th May 2008
  #865
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jslevin's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Francis Vaughan View Post
I assume you mean Max. However I doubt he said that. The input levels in the Duet are analogue gain controls, but the output level is digital. It occurs inside the ADC/DAC chip.
I don't know how that can be the case. The monitor and headphone outputs always share the same signal, because there's only one DAC pair, yet they can be running at different levels. How is that possible, unless both stereo attenuators are post-DAC, which would make them analog controls?

I believe the Duet provides essentially an analog attenuator for monitor control.

JSL
Old 15th May 2008
  #866
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jslevin View Post
I don't know how that can be the case. The monitor and headphone outputs always share the same signal, because there's only one DAC pair, yet they can be running at different levels. How is that possible, unless both stereo attenuators are post-DAC, which would make them analog controls?

I believe the Duet provides essentially an analog attenuator for monitor control.

JSL
The two outputs can't be run at different levels. Lots of people have been moaning about just this issue. Sure the absolute levels are different, but the difference is fixed, simply due to the different gain of the output driver and headphone driver amps.

To quote from the Apogee Duet FAQ: Apogee Electronics: Products: Duet
Quote:
Q: Can I set the headphone and line outputs to different levels?
A: The headphone and line outputs are always controlled simultaneously. To set the balance between headphones and speakers connected to the line outputs, set the speaker’s amplifier accordingly. It is possible to mute the headphones and line outputs independently.
There is nothing between the DAC and the output. It goes CS 4272 (DAC), LM833 (I/V converter) LM833 (output op-amp) . Both outputs add a few of bipolar transistors on the end of the op-amps to give them additional drive, and a mute, but that is it. The CS 4272 internally provides a digital domain 20 bit attenuator before the DAC for output volume control. That is all there is.

Input level control is done inside the PGA2500 mic amp chips, and occurs before the ADC. (In addition there are 10dB relay switched pads that extends the input gain range.)
Old 15th May 2008
  #867
Quote:
Originally Posted by Francis Vaughan View Post
I assume you mean Max. However I doubt he said that. The input levels in the Duet are analogue gain controls, but the output level is digital. It occurs inside the ADC/DAC chip.

This does however mirror some of other other discussions raging about GS at the moment. So long as the noise floor of the whole system is greater than the LSB of the DAC (something that is hard to avoid with a 24 bit device - even it if it only good for 21 bits) then you still don't lose any resolution, because the resolution is noise limited and not bit depth limited.
I PM'd Max to clear this up..as I am sure what I read, but just cannot find the post right now.
Old 16th May 2008
  #868
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jslevin's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Francis Vaughan View Post
The two outputs can't be run at different levels. Lots of people have been moaning about just this issue.
Wow. That does kind of blow. I mean, it's workable, I guess, and I guess it's part of the impressive price-point they hit, but ... it can't feel right to have it that way.

JSL
Old 16th May 2008
  #869
Gear Maniac
 

best way to run cables to my monitors? I have MR5 monitors, and I noticed some fuzz when no sound was playing, so I tried the unbalanced TS to RCA. I noticed a loss of sound loudness and hard hittin base vs the TS to TS running through the balanced input.

MR5 only has rca unbalanced in, but it sounded better with TS to TS in the balanced in?
what is best, GC said just buy balanced cables it makes no difference? HUH?

clear this up.

So less power with the RCA, lower output, vs LOUDER a bit more hum with unbalanced TS to TS balanced input!

I would turn it to 3 notches with the TS TO TS, and it was lound RCA I can go half way up and the base isn't as prominant.
Old 16th May 2008
  #870
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jslevin View Post
Wow. That does kind of blow. I mean, it's workable, I guess, and I guess it's part of the impressive price-point they hit, but ... it can't feel right to have it that way.
To do this they would have had to add two two channel level controllers - one for the line level one for the headphone outputs - since the internal to DAC control happens before the DAC it can only affect both together. So that would have been two additional packages with attendant support components, with the additional power draw and space. Could have been done, there is probably enough space if they start to use the underside of the PCB a bit more. But eventually any design has to call "enough". There is more than enough remaining control capability in the controller chip however.
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