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Apogee Duet, professional two-channel firewire audio interface for the Mac Audio Interfaces
Old 8th April 2008
  #811
GCL
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Max View Post
It's never just about a chip, the circuitry around the chip is more important to determining sound quality.



There is no "Duet driver". Apogee has never made a FireWire driver for Mac. All Apogee FireWire products use Apple's Core Audio FireWire driver.
I've always understood that point. Apogee has long advertised this in print ads for the Duet and Ensemble. Whether Apogee or Apple, your products do not work completely as advertised, and we're getting very little communication about it. This the real issue here and why everyone is so upset and venting on this forum about it. You guys work with Apple very closely. Cutting to the chase, we as users are basically looking for good communication rather that pat answers that keep us at an arm's length from any knowledge that can helps us with our business. We rely on what you print in your advertisements when you say the device is core audio compliant. We've had no reason to imagine all the problems we would all encounter with these products. And it's the length of time we've had to put up with these issues that is also a contributing factor. It's been going on for almost 6 months now.

Most of us are working professionals, and we'd really appreciate being clued in on what's happening. Case in point, I applaud Digidesign's Dave Lebolt's recent communication to its customers. That's all what we want too. We love Apogee products, we want to work with them. This a good thing, but we need better customer support and communication.

I think VSL, East-West and Digidesign, are all companies that understand that a new business model for customer communication is emerging. Apple (and therefore Apogee) is unfortunately going in the opposite direction.
Old 8th April 2008
  #812
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GCL View Post
I've always understood that point. Apogee has long advertised this in print ads for the Duet and Ensemble. Whether Apogee or Apple, your products do not work completely as advertised, and we're getting very little communication about it. This the real issue here and why everyone is so upset and venting on this forum about it. You guys work with Apple very closely. Cutting to the chase, we as users are basically looking for good communication rather that pat answers that keep us at an arm's length from any knowledge that can helps us with our business. We rely on what you print in your advertisements when you say the device is core audio compliant. We've had no reason to imagine all the problems we would all encounter with these products. And it's the length of time we've had to put up with these issues that is also a contributing factor. It's been going on for almost 6 months now.

Most of us are working professionals. Case in point, I applaud Digidesign's Dave Lebolt's recent communication to its customers. That's all what we want too.

I think VSL, East-West and Digidesign, are all companies that understand that a new business model for customer communication is emerging. Apple (and therefore Apogee) is unfortunately going in the opposite direction.
GCL,

I understand your frustration. Good communication with our customers is one of Apogee's core philosophies. In this instance, we communicated early on when we confirmed the problem, we explained what we thought were contributing factors, and what we were doing to help resolve it. Since this problem is not Apogee-specific, we cannot tell you what we don't know, that is, when there will be a fix. All we can do is let you know we are doing everything in our power to help and encourage a solution.
Old 8th April 2008
  #813
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by GCL View Post
I've always understood that point. Apogee has long advertised this in print ads for the Duet and Ensemble. Whether Apogee or Apple, your products do not work completely as advertised, and we're getting very little communication about it. This the real issue here and why everyone is so upset and venting on this forum about it. You guys work with Apple very closely. Cutting to the chase, we as users are basically looking for good communication rather that pat answers that keep us at an arm's length from any knowledge that can helps us with our business. We rely on what you print in your advertisements when you say the device is core audio compliant. We've had no reason to imagine all the problems we would all encounter with these products. And it's the length of time we've had to put up with these issues that is also a contributing factor. It's been going on for almost 6 months now.

Most of us are working professionals, and we'd really appreciate being clued in on what's happening. Case in point, I applaud Digidesign's Dave Lebolt's recent communication to its customers. That's all what we want too. We love Apogee products, we want to work with them. This a good thing, but we need better customer support and communication.

I think VSL, East-West and Digidesign, are all companies that understand that a new business model for customer communication is emerging. Apple (and therefore Apogee) is unfortunately going in the opposite direction.


I have had the DUET for a month and have had absolutely NO PROBLEM with it what soever, (except for not loving the sound of the pres) It is the most rock solid inerface ive owned, which have included, firebox, 24d, ultralight, and fasttrack.

its integration with logic and garageband are nothing to write home about. Its like click a button and see a few of the command options, maestro on a separate screen offers more options.
Old 8th April 2008
  #814
GCL
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kincept View Post
I have had the DUET for a month and have had absolutely NO PROBLEM with it what soever, (except for not loving the sound of the pres) It is the most rock solid inerface ive owned, which have included, firebox, 24d, ultralight, and fasttrack.

its integration with logic and garageband are nothing to write home about. Its like click a button and see a few of the command options, maestro on a separate screen offers more options.
That's great. I'm happy for you that you have no issues with it (no sarcasm implied). As you can see, there are plenty of us who do not share your good luck.
Old 8th April 2008
  #815
GCL
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Max View Post
GCL,

I understand your frustration. Good communication with our customers is one of Apogee's core philosophies. In this instance, we communicated early on when we confirmed the problem, we explained what we thought were contributing factors, and what we were doing to help resolve it. Since this problem is not Apogee-specific, we cannot tell you what we don't know, that is, when there will be a fix. All we can do is let you know we are doing everything in our power to help and encourage a solution.
Thank you for that. Should we expect the fix for this to be in a future Mac OSX release, such as 10.5.3? (i.e, not a separate update from Apogee's site as the Oct. '07 Duet driver software)
Old 8th April 2008
  #816
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vocalvoodoo View Post
I've actually found it to be quite an amazing $500 box. Super clean, quite, great A/D D/A and very usable pres. I think you'd be hard pressed to find similar quality in the price range.

Then again, this is only my opinion.

Also, Kincept, are you sure you don't have a bad unit? I've read a lot of your posts regarding the Duet. Maybe you got a bad one.
the unit is definitely not bad, I just dont think the logic controls are anything to write home about.

The pres? i think it depends on your music style, I will say that for strings or instruments
it deos excel, but on vocals unless your singing a clean clear mariah carey type vocal performance I think it will leave you a little flat.
Old 8th April 2008
  #817
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GCL View Post
Thank you for that. Should we expect the fix for this to be in a future Mac OSX release, such as 10.5.3? (i.e, not a separate update from Apogee's site as the Oct. '07 Duet driver software)
I cannot comment on that. All I can tell you is we are pushing for an expeditious fix.
Old 8th April 2008
  #818
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macgee's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Max View Post
The download is for Maestro and the Pop Up display. The driver already exists in your OS and is used buy more devices than just Apogee products.

It could be driver related, although we haven't encountered this in testing. Have you contacted tech support?
i haven't contacted support since i have assumed the issue is driver related and that an update must be forth coming since i still can't even seem to get the DUET to control my transport in Logic and neither have others so i've been waiting for an update

currently i'm still using my MOTU 828MKII interface since the DUET doesn't have balanced outs. when i do use the DUET in the system then i get a lot of interference noise and it's more hassle than it's worth at the moment to resolve since i'm in the middle of a very complex project so i mainly use the DUET on the road and with my laptop... other than the bursts which are very loud when they happen, the quality is great on playback. i haven't tested for tracking since my setup, monitoring and headphone mix system is complex and reliant on many channels

another thing, about aggregate devices, is this meant to work with the DUET?
i've had the DUET plugged serially into the MOTU 828MKII and was able to create an aggregate device and the clocks seemed stable. does OS X handle the clocking of aggregate devices or are devices supposed to be connected in such a way as one is the master and the other the slave??? i know the DUET doesn't have this capability but i'm confused since i was able to do this and never got any clocking issues??
any ideas about that Max?

thanks for your time! i will log an issue with support once i test the system again
Old 9th April 2008
  #819
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by macleodgrant View Post
i haven't contacted support since i have assumed the issue is driver related and that an update must be forth coming since i still can't even seem to get the DUET to control my transport in Logic and neither have others so i've been waiting for an update
I cannot stress strongly enough to contact support first. We have an amazing tech support team dedicated to serve your needs. So many times we see issues go up on Gearslutz as Apogee problems only to discover thats not the case at all. Give us the opportunity to try and solve your problems before you take them to the rest of the world. (ok, off my soapbox)

Quote:
currently i'm still using my MOTU 828MKII interface since the DUET doesn't have balanced outs. when i do use the DUET in the system then i get a lot of interference noise and it's more hassle than it's worth at the moment to resolve since i'm in the middle of a very complex project so i mainly use the DUET on the road and with my laptop... other than the bursts which are very loud when they happen, the quality is great on playback. i haven't tested for tracking since my setup, monitoring and headphone mix system is complex and reliant on many channels
Hard to say over the internet. Call tech support and we'll walk you through all of it.

Quote:
another thing, about aggregate devices, is this meant to work with the DUET?
i've had the DUET plugged serially into the MOTU 828MKII and was able to create an aggregate device and the clocks seemed stable. does OS X handle the clocking of aggregate devices or are devices supposed to be connected in such a way as one is the master and the other the slave??? i know the DUET doesn't have this capability but i'm confused since i was able to do this and never got any clocking issues??
any ideas about that Max?
Yes, this does work with the MOTU because your 828MKII allows you to clock to Duet, by choosing Apple's Core Audio driver as a clock source.
Old 9th April 2008
  #820
Gear Maniac
 
Virtuoso's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Max View Post
Give us the opportunity to try and solve your problems before you take them to the rest of the world. (ok, off my soapbox)
Test your products properly before you release them onto the market with false claims of compatibility. (ok, off my soapbox)
Old 9th April 2008
  #821
Lives for gear
 

My Duet experience has been flawless also.

I hope these issues get sorted out asap though.
Old 9th April 2008
  #822
GCL
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DISCERN View Post
All I can say is... suck a fart if your duet isn't working properly.
Hell... I've even been using it as an aggregated device with my macbook's internal soundcard for live sets.
You probably (obviously) don't have 16 GB of RAM in your MacBook. It's a known issue for users with large amounts of RAM.
Old 9th April 2008
  #823
GCL
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DISCERN View Post
Are you sure? The duet may in fact be working perfectly in all shapes and forms. It could be constructed and coded perfectly to spec with apple's core audio drivers. The real issue may lie with apples core audio drivers and the way they address 16gb of ram in your apple computer...


now then, that would be like me yelling at a mic manufacturer for selling me a mic that doesn't work as advertised... yet the real problem being the f%&ked up mic cable that I connected it to.
Yikes! I'm outta here.
Old 9th April 2008
  #824
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macgee's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Max View Post
I cannot stress strongly enough to contact support first. We have an amazing tech support team dedicated to serve your needs. So many times we see issues go up on Gearslutz as Apogee problems only to discover thats not the case at all. Give us the opportunity to try and solve your problems before you take them to the rest of the world. (ok, off my soapbox)
fair enough, i can't argue with that thumbsup


Quote:
Originally Posted by Max View Post
Hard to say over the internet. Call tech support and we'll walk you through all of it.
i may just do that

Quote:
Originally Posted by Max View Post
Yes, this does work with the MOTU because your 828MKII allows you to clock to Duet, by choosing Apple's Core Audio driver as a clock source.
i mentioned this in a forum the other day and one guy laughed about it saying that he thought i was joking since the devices have to be connected together physically (either adat, spdif, wordclock) to actually share the same clock
Old 9th April 2008
  #825
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
i mentioned this in a forum the other day and one guy laughed about it saying that he thought i was joking since the devices have to be connected together physically (either adat, spdif, wordclock) to actually share the same clock
In which case he needs a lesson in how Firewire works. Any device on the Firewire bus is allowed to assert that it is the cycle master. Other devices on the bus are allowed to derive their local sample clocks from the Firewire bus cycle. Easy. (Well easy in principle, the usual caveats about deriving a good quality local clock from an external source still apply.) This is one of the many reasons you don't see USB based converters in anything bar the low end stuff.
Old 17th April 2008
  #826
Gear Nut
 

I posted my "Duet Problems" and Audio clips here:

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/so-mu...ogee-duet.html

can anyone tell me what's going on?
this clicks/glitches are driving me nu ts..
Old 18th April 2008
  #827
Here for the gear
 

Cool

i dont understand this big thing about the duet, for almost the same price you get more inputs, more outputs, inserts channels and the ability to use an external clock and the best mic pre ive heard in this price range, i'm takling about the Mackie 400F. the duet is cool if you need the ultimate in portability, but its not all that.
Old 18th April 2008
  #828
Here for the gear
 

originally posted by DISCERN;

Quote:
IMO, the Duet sinks the 400F faster than the titanic when it comes to sonic quality. Thats the big thing... the only thing that matters really.
have you heard them side by side, i'm pretty sure if you did you couldn't tell the difference, the clock on the 400F is great plus i have the flexibility, of integrating my external compressor into the chain on the inserts. the mackie is just a better unit IMO. just cause it has apogee's name, doesn't mean its the best, especially at this price range.
Old 19th April 2008
  #829
Lives for gear
 
crufty's Avatar
Monitors / phones make a difference here too. Hook up crappy monitors into your duet you may not hear the difference because the monitors themselves color the sound.

I have had zero issues with my duet. The clarity is unreal. It doesn't add ANYTHING. What I put in is what GOES in. This is what matters to me. So if I have a crappy buzz ridden signal, in it goes. If I have a crappy cable on an unbalanced line with horrible gain, in it goes.

Likewise, if the signal chain is setup right then it's ALL BUTTAH.

oh, except for the digital quality of ITB
Old 23rd April 2008
  #830
Gear Addict
 

Connecting SL-1200 turntable to Duet Mic Preamps

Hi Im wondering if this will work
Connecting SL-1200 to Duet Mic Preamps with no turnable preamp?
I have RCA-XLR adapters and dont want to use a turnable preamp


thanks David
Old 23rd April 2008
  #831
Lives for gear
 
inthere's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DISCERN View Post
Of course I listened to both, I spent considerable time with each. Like I mentioned already, the 400F was a boat anchor in comparison.
I've tested loads of sound cards in that price range, and I haven't heard anything yet that doesn't sound like a boat anchor in comparison to the Duet. If anyone can find something with better quality, please tell me.
Old 23rd April 2008
  #832
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d2ba View Post
Hi Im wondering if this will work
Connecting SL-1200 to Duet Mic Preamps with no turnable preamp?
I have RCA-XLR adapters and dont want to use a turnable preamp
You will need 2 things. Get the load impedance right for the cartridge you are using. This is as simple as adding a parallel resistor across each input. Your cartridge should list its desired impedance. Without this the tonal balance will likely be off. A typical moving magnet cartridge needs 47 kOhms, if you use a moving coil it can vary a lot. The Duet has enough gain for almost any cartridge.

You will need to apply reverse RIAA compensation to the recorded input signal. There are tools that can do this in the digital domain. I would expect there are plug ins that can do it too. But without, the result will be unusable.

You will probably want to go in through the unbalanced inputs into the Duet and set the input to Instrument. Cartridges vary in their wiring and grounding, but the typical turntable output is unbalanced.
Old 2nd May 2008
  #833
Gear Maniac
 

just wondering if you guys with problems have newer intel macs? or g4, 5 s?
Old 3rd May 2008
  #834
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jslevin's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by d2ba View Post
Hi Im wondering if this will work
Connecting SL-1200 to Duet Mic Preamps with no turnable preamp?
I have RCA-XLR adapters and dont want to use a turnable preamp
Just my opinion, but I think this is a bad idea. I've done this five different ways, and I've never been all that happy with applying the RIAA curve after the AD conversion. It's a pretty extreme curve when you get right down to it, and most EQ plug-ins are not well set up to specify it.

I put a fair amount of time to get it right using Metric-Halo ChannelStrip, with Metric-Halo's help, but while we did get it right, it still seemed like a better idea to get the EQ correction done before hitting the converters. Eventually I just got a turntable with a built in phono preamp, so now I go turntable -> internal preamp -> line balancer -> line-level converter inputs.

I don't know what your RCA-XLR adapters are, but if they don't handle line balancing then they're not everything you really need. Maybe you don't want to use a phono preamp because they're generally RCA-to-RCA, so you'd still have to run the signal into a line balancer and/or cable adapter after that?

Ultimately, this is what you really need if you want to use a turntable with RCA outputs and no built-in preamp. This does your format conversion, line balancing and RIAA EQ all in one box, very high quality, and you get XLR mic-level outputs ready to go straight into the Duet. (You also get the standard line-level unbalanced RCA outputs if that's what you want to use.)

Few phono preamps will give you balanced mic-level output, which is what makes this pretty cool. If that doesn't sound good to you, then maybe you can explain why specifically you're trying to avoid a phono preamp.

JSL
Old 3rd May 2008
  #835
Gear Addict
 

Is it possible to use two Duets on same computer

Hi have an imac 24" and need more audio outputs---if i buy a second duet will this work

My DAW is Logic Pro 8

thanks David
Old 3rd May 2008
  #836
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Francis Vaughan View Post
You will need 2 things. Get the load impedance right for the cartridge you are using. This is as simple as adding a parallel resistor across each input. Your cartridge should list its desired impedance. Without this the tonal balance will likely be off. A typical moving magnet cartridge needs 47 kOhms, if you use a moving coil it can vary a lot. The Duet has enough gain for almost any cartridge.

You will need to apply reverse RIAA compensation to the recorded input signal. There are tools that can do this in the digital domain. I would expect there are plug ins that can do it too. But without, the result will be unusable.

You will probably want to go in through the unbalanced inputs into the Duet and set the input to Instrument. Cartridges vary in their wiring and grounding, but the typical turntable output is unbalanced.
thanks I was purely trying to save desktop space

Dave
Old 3rd May 2008
  #837
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halfguard's Avatar
 

does anyone know if the duet is working well with the imacs with the agere chipset?
Old 3rd May 2008
  #838
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thermos's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by halfguard View Post
does anyone know if the duet is working well with the imacs with the agere chipset?
I remember reading on here somewhere that all the Apogee units are compatible with the Agere chipset.
Old 3rd May 2008
  #839
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
I've never been all that happy with applying the RIAA curve after the AD conversion. It's a pretty extreme curve when you get right down to it, and most EQ plug-ins are not well set up to specify it.
I could well believe this. The RIAA equalisation requires 40dB end to end - which is huge. I would never want to try to specify the curve with a general purpose EQ system- as you say they are just not set up to do this well. It needs to be done in a dedicated built for purpose EQ. Otherwise I could easily see the final result being less than stellar.

If you think about it, just the high frequency component of the requirement is losing you 3.3 bits worth of headroom. The low bass is 6.6 bits below the highest top end. Unless the equalisation is done very carefully, with a lot of care taken over precision, it won't be good.

One company that sells specialised software for digital vinyl recording, Diamond Cut Productions Homepage sells a "flat preamp" that specifically does not do the RIAA equalisation before the ADC. But again, their software is designed for purpose. Many enthusiasts will want the ability to tweak the curves anyway - pre RIAA adoption there was much variation between record companies - so collectors of old recording need to have custom EQ available.
Old 5th May 2008
  #840
Gear Maniac
 

what are the best monitors to use with the duet? I was thinking of the mackie mr5 but the unbalanced is in a RCA form.
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