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Apogee Duet, professional two-channel firewire audio interface for the Mac Audio Interfaces
Old 16th March 2008
  #781
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thermos's Avatar
I responded in the other thread too, but I thought I'd add. I know what you mean, and honestly I might even say that the sound of the D/A on my Lynx Aurora is less punchy than the D/A on the Duet. However, its more accurate and translates to the outside world better. So If I want punch, I have to mix for it. Thats what good D/A should do. It shouldn't give you instant gratification, it should tell you what you need to do to make it sound good.

FWIW, I think the D/A is the best I've owned, other than the Lynx Aurora (which is definitely better). That includes 4 Motu interfaces (828, 828m2, 896, 2408 mk3) and the Fireface. To me the Duet D/A (and A/D for that matter) is superior to all of those.
Old 16th March 2008
  #782
Quote:
Originally Posted by thermos View Post
I responded in the other thread too, but I thought I'd add. I know what you mean, and honestly I might even say that the sound of the D/A on my Lynx Aurora is less punchy than the D/A on the Duet. However, its more accurate and translates to the outside world better. So If I want punch, I have to mix for it. Thats what good D/A should do. It shouldn't give you instant gratification, it should tell you what you need to do to make it sound good.

FWIW, I think the D/A is the best I've owned, other than the Lynx Aurora (which is definitely better). That includes 4 Motu interfaces (828, 828m2, 896, 2408 mk3) and the Fireface. To me the Duet D/A (and A/D for that matter) is superior to all of those.
Ok this is what I\m trying to get at...If it's a case of the DA being effectively more flat (is that the right term?). Then ok I am fine with that, as you say if I have to work harder to bring liveliness out of my mixes so be it, I am striving for the best (on a budget) which is why I bought this and previously had the 1820m. But I want to be sure of that, because if that is the case then it may also have exposed a hole in my monitors or room (somewhere around 80 - 240 hz) and like I said I have treatment in my room.

Also to be fair when I play back some iTunes it does sound good (immediately pleasing)..so does that mean there are so many poor mixes out there!

Ps,,,I stated a thread on this as I want to explore this more:
DA on the Apogee Duet could my EMU 1820m be better?
Old 16th March 2008
  #783
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emrr's Avatar
okay, I read the first 5 pages and the last 10.

My big question:

Will the Duet allow 88.2kHz use of the newest Macbook Pro, which only includes 44.1K, 48K, and 96K with built-in audio?

I'm trying to have a portable edit station, headphones only, and have tons of 88.2K material to work on. I actually love the breakout cables because I would almost NEVER need them, and they can stay home and out of the way.

Clearly what I really need is a firewire or USB DA/headphone amp, in the smallest possible footprint, that will allow me to work at 88.2kHz with the MBP. Clearly I don't need anything else for 44.1K, 48K, or 96K sessions.

Any ideas about this or any other products that will do the job for me?

My little question:

Any real-world comparisons of laptop battery life with and without the Duet? I don't see it's current drain impact mentioned anywhere.

If this thing works for this job, it sounds like I could ea$e the pain and use it as an aggregate device with my MOTU 2408 PCI system as well. I see reports of successful mixed firewire and firewire/built-in audio use in a few places here, along with some failures.
Old 16th March 2008
  #784
Gear Nut
 

Yes 88.2 is an option in audio/midi setup with the duet.
Old 16th March 2008
  #785
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emrr's Avatar
Thanks. I'd sure love to have something much cheaper with a similar footprint, but I'm not spotting anything yet. Lots of cheap devices on the market that seem to do the 44.1/48/96 thing, and skip 88.2(?).
Old 18th March 2008
  #786
Gear Maniac
 

got my mic today, initially dissapointed compared to the ultralight,
in my headphones it doesn't sound accurate kind of muffly while recording but not during playback, adjusted the levels but cant get it.

I read on apogee website to shut off monitoring in garageband while recoding, but I get no sound, he said I might have both monitoring on in maestro and daw giving a phasey sound? this sounds right?

I dont see anywhere to shut off monitoring in maestro?
Old 18th March 2008
  #787
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macgee's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by kincept View Post
got my mic today, initially dissapointed compared to the ultralight,
in my headphones it doesn't sound accurate kind of muffly while recording but not during playback, adjusted the levels but cant get it.

I read on apogee website to shut off monitoring in garageband while recoding, but I get no sound, he said I might have both monitoring on in maestro and daw giving a phasey sound? this sounds right?

I dont see anywhere to shut off monitoring in maestro?
you have 2 choices here - i don't have the duet here with me but the principles apply to any interface

you can either monitor the input directly from the DUET (not going through garageband) or you can monitor through garageband. you should never monitor through both at the same time as you will get artifacts like phasing is like a slap back delay

just go through the options in Maestro and look for those types of things
Old 19th March 2008
  #788
Gear Maniac
 

I dont know I just cant get it set right, Im just recording in reaper and playing around with garageband I will get logic next month.

THe sound in the headphones seems to be lesser than what im actually recording, it seems to be overly bassey at times , then I turn down the mic record level then it sits to low, then I turn it up and it sits to high.

I dontknow if I cant convey what im experiencing in your terms, but it just sounds bad .
Old 19th March 2008
  #789
Gear Maniac
 

I figured out to turn on hardware L R button , I did get a better sound doing it that way and it sounded a better through my earphones. vs monitoring thorugh my DAW.

I am still getting a slightl bassey tone on some of my vocals does that mean i need to turn down the gain on the recording? when i do that It doesn't cut through the mix and give me the presence I want.

I m recording with everything at 0 DB master and all others, and mic check so I dont go into the red.
Old 4th April 2008
  #790
Here for the gear
 

And we move on.

BridgeCo and others are constantly reinventing their chipsets .mac (lin)or PC..or Dos.. toshiba or Intel moreso AMD .KIS ...2 channels with not pro audio specs is not worth any $s in 2009 ,but neither is creative whatevers.
16 channels I/O FW(not usb) boxed in any manufacturers box @192k is the standard with pro audio preamp specs naturally.This count will improve with FW 800 and get smaller .
Look at the firefly 808 and the new mk3 motu,and several others .Some of the network companies are discovering the innovative pro audio chipsets and incorporating ,check Belkin.Daw software is in revolt with o,share products. check Reaper and the ease of interface with ASIO devices and native driver support for Mac and Linux and the speed and affordability of XP.
Times move on look for products and companies and solutions that move with the times .My Pic Phonic,Motu,Maudio,Asus,AMD,Belkin,Seagate,BridgeCo,Via,Cirruslogic,Presonus
Hope the duet thingy <img>was worth the wait.
Cheers Hintertech
Old 4th April 2008
  #791
Quote:
Originally Posted by hintertech View Post
BridgeCo and others are constantly reinventing their chipsets .mac (lin)or PC..or Dos.. toshiba or Intel moreso AMD .KIS ...2 channels with not pro audio specs is not worth any $s in 2009 ,but neither is creative whatevers.
16 channels I/O FW(not usb) boxed in any manufacturers box @192k is the standard with pro audio preamp specs naturally.This count will improve with FW 800 and get smaller .
Look at the firefly 808 and the new mk3 motu,and several others .Some of the network companies are discovering the innovative pro audio chipsets and incorporating ,check Belkin.Daw software is in revolt with o,share products. check Reaper and the ease of interface with ASIO devices and native driver support for Mac and Linux and the speed and affordability of XP.
Times move on look for products and companies and solutions that move with the times .My Pic Phonic,Motu,Maudio,Asus,AMD,Belkin,Seagate,BridgeCo,Via,Cirruslogic,Presonus
Hope the duet thingy <img>was worth the wait.
Cheers Hintertech
what?
Old 4th April 2008
  #792
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barryjohns's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by hintertech View Post
BridgeCo and others are constantly reinventing their chipsets .mac (lin)or PC..or Dos.. toshiba or Intel moreso AMD .KIS ...2 channels with not pro audio specs is not worth any $s in 2009 ,but neither is creative whatevers.
16 channels I/O FW(not usb) boxed in any manufacturers box @192k is the standard with pro audio preamp specs naturally.This count will improve with FW 800 and get smaller .
Look at the firefly 808 and the new mk3 motu,and several others .Some of the network companies are discovering the innovative pro audio chipsets and incorporating ,check Belkin.Daw software is in revolt with o,share products. check Reaper and the ease of interface with ASIO devices and native driver support for Mac and Linux and the speed and affordability of XP.
Times move on look for products and companies and solutions that move with the times .My Pic Phonic,Motu,Maudio,Asus,AMD,Belkin,Seagate,BridgeCo,Via,Cirruslogic,Presonus
Hope the duet thingy <img>was worth the wait.
Cheers Hintertech
I am curious if the quality of the sound is of any concern to you in your analogy>
Old 4th April 2008
  #793
Quote:
Originally Posted by barryjohns View Post
I am curious if the quality of the sound is of any concern to you in your analogy>
yeah... like if staying on top of technology mean something...
where is the Fairchild.........
Old 4th April 2008
  #794
Gear Addict
 
Al Rogers's Avatar
 

Kincept,

I've been researching the Duet mic pres. All sources agree they don't suck. To quote one source, "Apogee is using a chip, but it is a very good chip."

That said, a quality outboard mic pre will give you more from your mics. I don't know if the Grace 101 would be a significant upgrade. I'm curious to hear from someone who has done an A/B comparison using a Grace 101.

After shopping mic pres I decided on a Demeter HXM-1 HX. I'm told that since it uses transformers and tubes it will be a definite upgrade over the built in Duet mic pres. Transformers have some advantages.

Demeter is backordered about 2 weeks so it will be a little while before I can do a comparison. When I receive my unit, I'll post my impressions.

-Al
Old 4th April 2008
  #795
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Vocalvoodoo's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Rogers View Post
I'm curious to hear from someone who has done an A/B comparison using a Grace 101.
-Al
Earlier in this thread, I think someone did A/B the Duet pres with the Grace 101, and seemed to like the Grace a tad better. Not positive though.
Old 4th April 2008
  #796
GCL
Lives for gear
 

I hate the issues with the Apogee Duet driver, but the mic preamps in it are fabulous, and I've owned quite a few high-end preamps in the past. Just record a nice nylon string guitar with a KM184 and you'll see. D/A is great too. I'm very happy with these aspects of the unit.
Old 4th April 2008
  #797
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Vocalvoodoo's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by GCL View Post
I hate the issues with the Apogee Duet driver, but the mic preamps in it are fabulous, and I've owned quite a few high-end preamps in the past. Just record a nice nylon string guitar with a KM184 and you'll see. D/A is great too. I'm very happy with these aspects of the unit.
What kind of driver problems are you having? I ask because just recently I'm getting weirdness with my Duet. Things have been fine since I bought it when it first came out. But now I will be trucking along fine while mixing, then out of nowhere, everything gets all garbled, similar to when you have sync problems with an external converter.
Old 4th April 2008
  #798
GCL
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vocalvoodoo View Post
What kind of driver problems are you having? I ask because just recently I'm getting weirdness with my Duet. Things have been fine since I bought it when it first came out. But now I will be trucking along fine while mixing, then out of nowhere, everything gets all garbled, similar to when you have sync problems with an external converter.
Check the thread about all the Duet kernal panics, in this same forum topic.
Old 4th April 2008
  #799
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Vocalvoodoo's Avatar
 

Thanks...
Old 6th April 2008
  #800
Gear Nut
 

I would appreciate some answers to the following:

1. Have you ever experienced any sort of interference from the computer? Any clicks, intermittent noises or distortion?

2. Is there something as good as the Duet (sound-wise) that could run on external AC power?

Thank you.

EDIT: I may have found a way to power the Apogee Duet externally, but I am reluctant to try it out, fearing that I may fry my laptop. Here is the idea: Apogee Duet --> 6-to-4 pin firewire adaptor --> firewire repeater (externally powered) --> Macbook

This is based on the fact that a 4-pin firewire connection is not powered.

Any comments?
Old 7th April 2008
  #801
Gear Maniac
 

duet is not that great,
i would just get another firewire inerface and buy an external preamp.

The controls in logic and garageband are lame, its not that hard to click on a minimized screen or in spaces to adjust your settings.
Old 8th April 2008
  #802
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Rogers View Post
Kincept,

I've been researching the Duet mic pres. All sources agree they don't suck. To quote one source, "Apogee is using a chip, but it is a very good chip."
It's never just about a chip, the circuitry around the chip is more important to determining sound quality.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GCL View Post
I hate the issues with the Apogee Duet driver, but the mic preamps in it are fabulous, and I've owned quite a few high-end preamps in the past. Just record a nice nylon string guitar with a KM184 and you'll see. D/A is great too. I'm very happy with these aspects of the unit.
There is no "Duet driver". Apogee has never made a FireWire driver for Mac. All Apogee FireWire products use Apple's Core Audio FireWire driver.
Old 8th April 2008
  #803
ocp
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ocp's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vocalvoodoo View Post
What kind of driver problems are you having? I ask because just recently I'm getting weirdness with my Duet. Things have been fine since I bought it when it first came out. But now I will be trucking along fine while mixing, then out of nowhere, everything gets all garbled, similar to when you have sync problems with an external converter.
Have you done the latest Airport update?
I did and now my audio apps are glitchy.
Old 8th April 2008
  #804
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Vocalvoodoo's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kincept View Post
duet is not that great,
i would just get another firewire inerface and buy an external preamp.

The controls in logic and garageband are lame, its not that hard to click on a minimized screen or in spaces to adjust your settings.
I've actually found it to be quite an amazing $500 box. Super clean, quite, great A/D D/A and very usable pres. I think you'd be hard pressed to find similar quality in the price range.

Then again, this is only my opinion.

Also, Kincept, are you sure you don't have a bad unit? I've read a lot of your posts regarding the Duet. Maybe you got a bad one.
Old 8th April 2008
  #805
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Vocalvoodoo's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ocp View Post
Have you done the latest Airport update?
I did and now my audio apps are glitchy.
You know, I did actually. Now I'm trying to remember if the problems started after the update. I think it may have been around the same time. (I just can't remember when I installed that update)

Thanks for the heads up.
Old 8th April 2008
  #806
ocp
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ocp's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vocalvoodoo View Post
You know, I did actually. Now I'm trying to remember if the problems started after the update. I think it may have been around the same time. (I just can't remember when I installed that update)

Thanks for the heads up.
Well, if so, check out this thread: https://www.gearslutz.com/board/music...need-help.html

I posted a link to a fix there.
All my apps are now working fine (except Ableton Live).
Old 8th April 2008
  #807
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Vocalvoodoo's Avatar
 

Thanks, ocp. Much appreciated!
Old 8th April 2008
  #808
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macgee's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Max View Post
It's never just about a chip, the circuitry around the chip is more important to determining sound quality.

There is no "Duet driver". Apogee has never made a FireWire driver for Mac. All Apogee FireWire products use Apple's Core Audio FireWire driver.
so are you saying that the updates on the website for the DUET are for the Maestro software only?

there are some issues with the DUET in logic like random bursts when pressing play and sometimes when stopping which indicates a core audio driver issue. i don't get these issues when using my MOTU 828MKII
Old 8th April 2008
  #809
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by macleodgrant View Post
so are you saying that the updates on the website for the DUET are for the Maestro software only?
The download is for Maestro and the Pop Up display. The driver already exists in your OS and is used buy more devices than just Apogee products.

Quote:
there are some issues with the DUET in logic like random bursts when pressing play and sometimes when stopping which indicates a core audio driver issue. i don't get these issues when using my MOTU 828MKII
It could be driver related, although we haven't encountered this in testing. Have you contacted tech support?
Old 8th April 2008
  #810
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inthere's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kincept View Post
im glad someone agrees with me.

Im talking about turning on my music (IE mostly spoken word RAP) and feeling like it is fizzling, it is not as strong , good, great sounding as THE MOTU ULTRALIGHT> im not talking about a grace true rnp !!!!!! I think the sounds from regular ITUNES should be better or equal to the motu?

I haven't tested the pres except for the guitar, which Im only so so satisfied with.

I think this is like buying that cheap model MERCEDES the little one with no power and no regular trunk. its like welll I BOUGHT A mercedes it uses the same aluminum and engine components as the new 500 SL.

shure it turns,

But the BOTTOM LINE IS the Same priced GT MUSTANG smokes that cheap mercedes for most people.

maybe you could hear some great nuance at 192 kHZ playing classical music in a sound treated room, but for most home users they might require some more muscle.


we will see when I record with a mic.
Sweetest sounding audio interface I've ever had for itunes and DVD playback was the M-Audio firewire 1814. Movies sounded magical coming through it. Mixes sounded awesome. When I played it through another source however, everything sucked and there was no separation. Motu 896 followed and separation was much better when I played the mix through other sources, I'm talking about the exact same mix in Logic. DVD movie and itunes playback sucked in comparison to the M-Audio though. After that I used the Motu Traveler and things were about the same. The the Konnect 24 D, again, about the same but with much more "punch". Konnect 24D was great on itunes playback, but kinda sucked on movie playback, but that may be personal preference because I felt it put a bit of a harsher edge to movies than what I want.
After that was the Saffire LE and while it lacked the punch of the 24D the separation was awesome. Cut to today and my Apogee Duet...........................

Separation is..................................heavenly. Pre's? Absolutely ****s all over everything else I've owned in terms of clarity. I have a friend that has a Duet and he wasn't impressed with the pre's. Turns out he was sending his vocals thru a cheap compressor. I told him to go directly into the Duet and he lost his mind when he heard the result. When I play mixes out on the weekends (I'm a DJ) if sounds like Swedien has mixed my stuff-Everything in the club sounds exactly as it did at home and on every other source.
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