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Apogee Duet, professional two-channel firewire audio interface for the Mac Audio Interfaces
Old 7th March 2008
  #751
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Dysanfel's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by kincept View Post
im sitting on the fence with this, do you think the preamps would be equal to or better than an RNP< GRACE 101 or true p SOLO?
The preamps do sound great, but a high end stand-alone preamp will probably always be better than a preamp in a $450 sound card. But, the awesome part about the Duet is that you can +4 dBu XLR Line input any preamp into it.

The converters are where this unit really shines, I think.
Old 8th March 2008
  #752
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kincept View Post
im sitting on the fence with this, do you think the preamps would be equal to or better than an RNP< GRACE 101 or true p SOLO?
Certainly, on the Ensemble I prefer the built-in pres by a wide margin to any of the above.

Andy
Old 9th March 2008
  #753
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by 66d35 View Post
Certainly, on the Ensemble I prefer the built-in pres by a wide margin to any of the above.

Andy
I have used the Grace 101 with the Duet, and I like the pres in the Duet better than the Grace 101 for open mic recording, but if you compress on with outboard gear or EQ who knows what you will like?
Old 9th March 2008
  #754
Gear Nut
 

I have an Ensemble and a couple of Grace 101s (original model without added gain).

To my ears the Grace 101s sound a little more laid back. the Apogee pre's are also very clear/transparent, but with a little more (hard to find the adjective) "omph" or urgency to the sound (could just be a function of the gain). I am not an audio engineer, but to my ears these Apogee preamps are the best I've heard in an all-in-one interface.

I'd say I like them both about the same--which is a lot.

Regards,

Bill
Old 9th March 2008
  #755
Gear Addict
 

Can two Duets be used together in a Logic Pro 8 system?

I don't have enough outputs--can two Duets be used together in a Logic Pro 8 system?

What Im thinking of is Duet No 1 monitoring and Duet No 2 for two Audio Outs and Recording two channels at once

I have a Korg MS-20and wish to process mono tracks with the Analog filters (One mono track at a time and re-record the processed sound) (Im assuming the headphone jack on the Duet always mirrors the line out otherwise I could get away with using the headphone jack as a audio out)

My system is imac 24" , Lacie D2 External firewire and 1 x Apogee Duet
DAW is Logic Pro 8

thanks in advance
Dave
Old 9th March 2008
  #756
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kingswood6 View Post
I have an Ensemble and a couple of Grace 101s (original model without added gain).

To my ears the Grace 101s sound a little more laid back. the Apogee pre's are also very clear/transparent, but with a little more (hard to find the adjective) "omph" or urgency to the sound (could just be a function of the gain). I am not an audio engineer, but to my ears these Apogee preamps are the best I've heard in an all-in-one interface.

I'd say I like them both about the same--which is a lot.

Regards,

Bill
I agree with the description of the Grace v. Duet pre comparison...The grace does sound a bit distant, but still a very good sound, when I compress the track going in, it adds that "umph" or whatever it is that makes it more like the apogee pre.

I still prefer the apogee, one less step.
Old 9th March 2008
  #757
A quick question. Can anyone tell me how to bypass the duets pre's in the maestro software console using the XLR inputs. I assume its using the -6 db XLR inputs?
Old 9th March 2008
  #758
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by littledoodler View Post
A quick question. Can anyone tell me how to bypass the duets pre's in the maestro software console using the XLR inputs. I assume its using the -6 db XLR inputs?
read post #760 ^^^ above thumbsup
Old 9th March 2008
  #759
Quote:
Originally Posted by chk027 View Post
read post #760 ^^^ above thumbsup
true thanks!
Old 13th March 2008
  #760
Here for the gear
 

Hello. Anyone know a good store or site that won't sell me a B-stock?

Oh does the Duet have enough gain to make a dynamic (SM57) good for vocals?

Thanks.
Old 13th March 2008
  #761
Here for the gear
 

Question on speaker connection:
Q1. Seen in specification, there are two 1/4" speaker output, any one know they are two stereo or mono 1/4" ports ? Or to say they support two pairs of speakers or only one pair?

Q2. Could it support a pair of non-powered speakers? I have a pair of B&W LM-1, wanna connect them with duet directly.
Old 13th March 2008
  #762
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Vocalvoodoo's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by smudged View Post
Hello. Anyone know a good store or site that won't sell me a B-stock?

Oh does the Duet have enough gain to make a dynamic (SM57) good for vocals?

Thanks.
The Duet pre's have 75dB of gain, so you'll be good to go with dynamics and ribbons. I've used both an SM57 and Cascade Fathead ribbon through the Duet, and there was more than enough gain.
Old 13th March 2008
  #763
Here for the gear
 

Thanks for the answer. Anyone knows where I could buy or order a Duet that's not B-stock? I live in Palm Desert, CA if that helps. Thanks.
Old 13th March 2008
  #764
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesperhu View Post
Question on speaker connection:
Q1. Seen in specification, there are two 1/4" speaker output, any one know they are two stereo or mono 1/4" ports ? Or to say they support two pairs of speakers or only one pair?

Q2. Could it support a pair of non-powered speakers? I have a pair of B&W LM-1, wanna connect them with duet directly.
A1. They are stereo outs, so only one set of monitors
A2. They only work with powered monitors
Old 13th March 2008
  #765
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David Robinson's Avatar
 

hi guys,
been using duet for 6 months!
my rosetta gathers dust.
my unit is rock solid and is on 24/7.
must be "A" stock.
my chain, atm, is Duet out to QSC3800series power amp (circa.:1987) to Tannoy 3838 DC's in Lancaster Boxes.
all cables are either monster or van den hul.
happy.
DR9.
Old 13th March 2008
  #766
Here for the gear
 

Thanks for reply,
To clarify A1, are you saying they are two mono 1/4" port, one for R Chl, one L for Chl?


Quote:
Originally Posted by blayz2002 View Post
A1. They are stereo outs, so only one set of monitors
A2. They only work with powered monitors
Old 13th March 2008
  #767
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesperhu View Post
Thanks for reply,
To clarify A1, are you saying they are two mono 1/4" port, one for R Chl, one L for Chl?
I think there is a missunderstanding here...

Just because the plug and jack are TRS (tip, ring, sleeve) doesn't mean it caries a STEREO signal.

I think the Duet has two TRS outs, one for the left, one for the righ. If it's TRS it's balanced signal. But I'm not sure the Duet have them...
Old 13th March 2008
  #768
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The outputs on the Duet are two 1/4 inch TRS female. Although they are TRS, this is does not mean they are balanced - they are not. They are unbalanced (the R and S are physically connected together inside the Duet). One is for right out, the other for left out. (That the breakout cable carries TRS means that it could be used with a (currently non-existent) unit that provides a balanced output. It is not impossible that at some earlier stage the Duet was going to have balanced outputs and the connector was specified in a way that supported this, and later the design went to unbalanced.)

These outputs are fed from the same DAC as the headphone, and as such are under the same output level control.

If you want, there nothing stopping you from making up your own 15 pin D connector to connect the Duet in any way you want. I have made one up with a couple of RCA plugs, and have the bits for a few other ideas. The breakout cable supplied is a bit bulky, so custom breakouts can make a lot of sense.
Old 13th March 2008
  #769
Here for the gear
 

Ya, great idea, any instruction to show how to connect the RCA?
Only find this on apogee website:
PIN
FUNCTION
1
MIC1 +
2
MIC2 +
3
Hi-Z1 tip
4
Hi-Z2 tip
5
Line out 1 tip
6
MIC1 -
7
MIC2 -
8
Hi-Z1 GND
9
Hi-Z2 GND
10
GND
11
MIC1 GND
12
MIC2 GND
13
no pin
14
GND
15
Line out 2 tip

Quote:
Originally Posted by Francis Vaughan View Post
The outputs on the Duet are two 1/4 inch TRS female. Although they are TRS, this is does not mean they are balanced - they are not. They are unbalanced (the R and S are physically connected together inside the Duet). One is for right out, the other for left out. (That the breakout cable carries TRS means that it could be used with a (currently non-existent) unit that provides a balanced output. It is not impossible that at some earlier stage the Duet was going to have balanced outputs and the connector was specified in a way that supported this, and later the design went to unbalanced.)

These outputs are fed from the same DAC as the headphone, and as such are under the same output level control.

If you want, there nothing stopping you from making up your own 15 pin D connector to connect the Duet in any way you want. I have made one up with a couple of RCA plugs, and have the bits for a few other ideas. The breakout cable supplied is a bit bulky, so custom breakouts can make a lot of sense.
Old 13th March 2008
  #770
Gear Nut
 

"Q2. Could it support a pair of non-powered speakers? I have a pair of B&W LM-1, wanna connect them with duet directly."

it can't support them directly, but like David Robinson and myself, you can run the outputs to a power amp and to your speakers from there. i have 2 sets of monitors and a headphone mix coming off the power amp and there is a 3-way switch to quickly select which monitoring system is active. which in a round about way, answers Q1 also!
Old 13th March 2008
  #771
Anyone actually getting Maestro to remember settings when it's switch off and on? I keep saving sessions but it doesn't load up the last saved (opened) session and just opens with "Untiled". I have the "Launch Maestro automatically" ticked on the Prefs.

Also funnily if I select to open recent the last saved session is not in that list!
Old 15th March 2008
  #772
Gear Maniac
 

hmm im not sure what to think, all these great reviews I got home plugged it in and played a song through itunes. and was liek erre? ee what? huh, nothing special, clear but not punchy.

recorded some guitar, and it was good but not all that,

haven't hit vocals yet but thats what i bought it for, i hope its better than the motu ultralight? I think the ultralight is gonna be more punchy, I'll C.

I think its awesome and portable

but,

I wonder if all these reviews were alittle off the mark, is it really better than or equal to a grace 101? p solo or RNP? thats why i bought it.
Old 15th March 2008
  #773
Gear Maniac
 

how would you add a compressor to this? hardware?
Old 15th March 2008
  #774
Quote:
Originally Posted by kincept View Post
hmm im not sure what to think, all these great reviews I got home plugged it in and played a song through itunes. and was liek erre? ee what? huh, nothing special, clear but not punchy.

recorded some guitar, and it was good but not all that,

haven't hit vocals yet but thats what i bought it for, i hope its better than the motu ultralight? I think the ultralight is gonna be more punchy, I'll C.

I think its awesome and portable

but,

I wonder if all these reviews were alittle off the mark, is it really better than or equal to a grace 101? p solo or RNP? thats why i bought it.
Hmmm...I think I'm may in agreement. I just got mine this week and previously was using a EMU 1820m (on my PC set up) with Blue Sky Media Desk monitors... and yes there is definitely less punch on the DAC than the EMU! (I'm kinda in shock) I been dreaming about Apogee hardware for sometime now. I've had to turn up my Sub just to get the same feel, and I have 7 bass traps in the room. Could this be because the Duet is giving me more acurate representation of the low end? I know apogee's are known for tight low end ...but hey am I missing something?

Haven't really experimented with the Pre's yet (will test these against GT Brick as that's was I using with the EMU). The ADC so far sounds pretty good TME's, but that will be revealed once I put a whole mix together.
Old 15th March 2008
  #775
Quote:
Originally Posted by kincept View Post
how would you add a compressor to this? hardware?
Only way is you add in th chain of your instrument (so before the Duet). If you want to use it as an insert in your Daw then I can't see how you could as you would need another 2 i/o or that.
Old 15th March 2008
  #776
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Jimbo's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by kincept View Post
I think its awesome and portable but,

I wonder if all these reviews were alittle off the mark, is it really better than or equal to a grace 101? p solo or RNP? thats why i bought it.
Let's compare:
- Grace 101: 1 channel preamp - cost $550
- RNP: 2 channel preamp - cost $475
- Duet: 2 channel preamp, A/D, DA, headphone amp, Firewire, software - cost $500

I've never used any of these products, but I think it's pretty unrealistic to expect the Duet to cover so many bases at its asking price, AND have preamps that compare to dedicated units such as the Grace.

Enjoy the portability and price! thumbsup
Old 15th March 2008
  #777
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Quote:
nothing special, clear but not punchy.
Here lies a problem in perception of need. I would really hope that it didn't sound punchy. Punchy is a colour, and whilst many would find it desirable, it is not something I would be wanting to hear in a general purpose device like the Duet. That is something I would be expecting to add, if and when I want it. Clear on the other hand I do want.

If you want a pre that provides punchy colour you will need to go a different route - for which the Duet could still be the best value AD etc. But you seem to be looking for a particular sound from the pres, and the Duet is going to disappoint if this is the expectation.

Actually, what you describe is a common reaction to a very accurate interface. The total lack of colour is often initially off putting. People wonder what the fuss is about. It takes a while to realise that it is subtle, and that there are depths in the sound previously unheard, but that there is a lack of character.
Old 15th March 2008
  #778
Quote:
Originally Posted by Francis Vaughan View Post
Here lies a problem in perception of need. I would really hope that it didn't sound punchy. Punchy is a colour, and whilst many would find it desirable, it is not something I would be wanting to hear in a general purpose device like the Duet. That is something I would be expecting to add, if and when I want it. Clear on the other hand I do want.

If you want a pre that provides punchy colour you will need to go a different route - for which the Duet could still be the best value AD etc. But you seem to be looking for a particular sound from the pres, and the Duet is going to disappoint if this is the expectation.

Actually, what you describe is a common reaction to a very accurate interface. The total lack of colour is often initially off putting. People wonder what the fuss is about. It takes a while to realise that it is subtle, and that there are depths in the sound previously unheard, but that there is a lack of character.
I think you have interpretated this incorrectly. The lack of punch comment is with the DA not the Pre's or the AD.

I do agree with everyone having a different perception o punch, but when I agreed with kincept of the DA lacking punch I am not talking about color. To me color is the difference between say the RNP and a Neve Pre for example. Punch to me is more to do with dynamics I guess (difficult to describe, but more what you feel than hear).
Old 15th March 2008
  #779
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Yup, on re-reading you are correct.

I did address the headphone sound in another thread. The general comments on accurate versus colour stand however. (Although I agree on your semantics of colour - I'm looking for a similar word that conveys dynamic colouring and not finding one.)

It does seem very early to be judging the Duet however.
Old 15th March 2008
  #780
Gear Maniac
 

im glad someone agrees with me.

Im talking about turning on my music (IE mostly spoken word RAP) and feeling like it is fizzling, it is not as strong , good, great sounding as THE MOTU ULTRALIGHT> im not talking about a grace true rnp !!!!!! I think the sounds from regular ITUNES should be better or equal to the motu?

I haven't tested the pres except for the guitar, which Im only so so satisfied with.

I think this is like buying that cheap model MERCEDES the little one with no power and no regular trunk. its like welll I BOUGHT A mercedes it uses the same aluminum and engine components as the new 500 SL.

shure it turns,

But the BOTTOM LINE IS the Same priced GT MUSTANG smokes that cheap mercedes for most people.

maybe you could hear some great nuance at 192 kHZ playing classical music in a sound treated room, but for most home users they might require some more muscle.


we will see when I record with a mic.
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