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Apogee Duet, professional two-channel firewire audio interface for the Mac Audio Interfaces
Old 22nd October 2007
  #481
Quote:
Originally Posted by peterhecht View Post
I use a Metric Halo ULN2... Is the Duet better or equal? Thanx
I'm also curious about this.... have anyone compared?
Old 22nd October 2007
  #482
Can anyone tell me, when using the Duet as a general purpose device for OS X system sound... like via iTunes, QT, Safari, etc... how does the Duet interface with system volume?

Does it defeat system volume and make control manual via the knob?

Are system volume and volume adjustments via the knob one and the same, controllable via both knob and keyboard?

Are both volumes enabled and cascaded in the internal OS X volume / source mix?
Old 22nd October 2007
  #483
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macgee's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsvisser View Post
Can anyone tell me, when using the Duet as a general purpose device for OS X system sound... like via iTunes, QT, Safari, etc... how does the Duet interface with system volume?

Does it defeat system volume and make control manual via the knob?

Are system volume and volume adjustments via the knob one and the same, controllable via both knob and keyboard?

Are both volumes enabled and cascaded in the internal OS X volume / source mix?
it's bigger than i anticipated, substantially actually!!! i really thought you could just slip it in your pocket but that's not the case unless you have mighty big pockets ;-)

when using the volume knob, the standard translucent volume control appears on screen but i didn't try using the keyboard buttons...i will at home! i didn't notice the volume indicator by the 'time - top right' change. i guess i prefer that it doesn't so you could essentially use them independently which is a necessity if you're tracking, using it combined with the duet as an aggregate device and feeding an independent headphone mix to your singer!!! maybe there's an option somewhere

several people were asking about the line-ins and how you use them.
in the maestro software you choose from a drop down list whether you want the XLR ins to be 'Mic Preamp', 'XLR Line-in', etc

it's a nice little (hmm, big) unit, feels quality, is sexy and is definitely crystal clear. i'm going to put it up against my motu 828MKII when i get home - now that will be the deal maker!
Old 22nd October 2007
  #484
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsound View Post
I spoke to someone at Apogee about being able to use an external pre instead of the built in pres. He said that the Duet can do this but I'm wondering how? If there's only a Line-in and not an insert, won't this run it through the stock pres?
Line input bypasses the preamp.
Old 22nd October 2007
  #485
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I tried to directly compare my Mini-Me and Duet using an aggregate device (the mini-me via my Konnekt 24D's spdif in) and a Y-cable. But the sound recorded from my Duet is distorted in this configuration (no problem when only the Duet is used).

I'm gonna hook up the Konnekt+mini me to my windows machine and try to directly compare them again.

So far I'm very impressed with the recorded sound, smart integration with Logic, and direct monitoring using Maestro software.

Still I can tell you now that the Duet's pre is very quiet. Much quieter than Mini Me's pre. I set the gain of both preamps to +65db and measured the noise floor. The Duet was about 9db quieter than the Mini-me. I also compared it with the Konnekt's pre (@+62db gain), and the Duet is about 6db quieter.

Very nice!
Old 22nd October 2007
  #486
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by peterhecht View Post
I use a Metric Halo ULN2... Is the Duet better or equal? Thanx
I was also interested in this specific comparison. I was ready to pull the trigger on the ULN-2, and Atlas Pro, which is giving a good deal, wanted 1,050 shipped, I said 1,000 shipped, they told me Kiss my Ass.....instead of kissing my own ass I decided to go to the internet and shop and found a promo for the Duet, and said....I'm not going to Kiss my own ass, I will read up on this thing....

This, plus logic 8, and the Axiom controller all for 1050......ok

So really I don't care how they stack up, but if the ULN-2 was clearly better sound quality , I would regret my choice, but price is important to me.

If anyone knows I would still love to hear the conparison.
Old 22nd October 2007
  #487
I doubt the ULN-2 sounds "better" than the Duet
Old 22nd October 2007
  #488
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i can confirm that the DA in the duet is better than the DA on motu 828MKII - a bit more cuddly and with better definition

what seriously sucks is the unbalanced output on the duet, it makes it a lot harder to integrate into my system since everything else is balanced. it picked up a ground so now i need to look at that.

also, the motu didn't like the duet on the same firewire bus on mac pro though it didn't mind being plugged in the serial port on the 828 mkII
Old 22nd October 2007
  #489
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SoundEng1's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by macleodgrant View Post
i can confirm that the DA in the duet is better than the DA on motu 828MKII - a bit more cuddly and with better definition

what seriously sucks is the unbalanced output on the duet, it makes it a lot harder to integrate into my system since everything else is balanced. it picked up a ground so now i need to look at that.

also, the motu didn't like the duet on the same firewire bus on mac pro though it didn't mind being plugged in the serial port on the 828 mkII

Is there an option so one could get Balanced outputs?
Old 23rd October 2007
  #490
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peterhecht View Post
I use a Metric Halo ULN2... Is the Duet better or equal?
I can't speak to the sound quality, though I would expect them to be very close.

However, the ULN-2 is a much more full-featured product. It has a full compliment of two-channel digital i/o, including word clock, S/PDIF and AES/EBU. This allows you to use it as a stand-alone preamp and/or AD and/or DA -- or to take four channels in and out (both analog and digital) at a time. It has fully balanced analog i/o including insert points for both analog inputs. It also has a presets (ten I think) which allow you to switch between complete i/o and routing setups even with no computer attached.

JSL
Old 23rd October 2007
  #491
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jslevin View Post
I can't speak to the sound quality, though I would expect them to be very close.

However, the ULN-2 is a much more full-featured product. It has a full compliment of two-channel digital i/o, including word clock, S/PDIF and AES/EBU. This allows you to use it as a stand-alone preamp and/or AD and/or DA -- or to take four channels in and out (both analog and digital) at a time. It has fully balanced analog i/o including insert points for both analog inputs. It also has a presets (ten I think) which allow you to switch between complete i/o and routing setups even with no computer attached.

JSL
I use "only" the Pre's and A/D D/A on ULN2... If that equal to duet's sound quality - I will sell my ULN2 - Duet is more mobile...
Old 23rd October 2007
  #492
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gideon352 View Post
hey...does anyone know the input impedance of the mic / line inputs of the duet?
i can't find the it in the manual online. thanks.
I can't find this info either and am also interested in it, since the pres are nice, quiet and have lots of gain and probably good for ribbons...

Let's hope Max will chime in to answer this question.
Old 23rd October 2007
  #493
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YUGA View Post
I can't find this info either and am also interested in it, since the pres are nice, quiet and have lots of gain and probably good for ribbons...

Let's hope Max will chime in to answer this question.
Impedance is 5k Ohm, a perfect match for any type of mic, including ribbons.
Old 23rd October 2007
  #494
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gideon352 View Post
thanks max! how about the instrument inputs? do you know off hand?
Instrument impedance is 1M Ohm.
Old 23rd October 2007
  #495
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I Just got the Duet this weekend what a change !!! i have had the saffire the konnekt and the mbox 2 and 1, it blows all them away. the only one that was good was the konnekt but the duet is much better. I saw the duet at AES and they were very helpful explaining hot to create a aggregate device (they spent 20min with me until we got right). I'm black and i find that at these shows people do not spend alot of time with you like you cant afford the equipment but they did, cool

P.S. kudos to rode and ssl for being helpful at aes too
Old 24th October 2007
  #496
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ticctacc View Post
I Just got the Duet this weekend what a change !!! i have had the saffire the konnekt and the mbox 2 and 1, it blows all them away. the only one that was good was the konnekt but the duet is much better. I saw the duet at AES and they were very helpful explaining hot to create a aggregate device (they spent 20min with me until we got right). I'm black and i find that at these shows people do not spend alot of time with you like you cant afford the equipment but they did, cool

P.S. kudos to rode and ssl for being helpful at aes too
Thanks for the post, Im glad to hear this thing is holding up to the hype. maybe you could post how to set up the agg device....that would be great too.

I hope my Duet ships this week but who knows>>?????

Apogee and Apple getting it done for the home studio, at a great price. Keep the great affordable products coming..
Old 24th October 2007
  #497
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Hey Max,

I just purchased a Duet for mobile and on-the-fly type of stuff when not using my Ensemble. I have a few questions though:

1) After registering my Duet on the website, my customer login page displays all the products I've registered and their respective software/drivers. I noticed that the page says that Ensemble is not ready to go with OS 10.5 Leopard which is only a few days away from release. Are Duet's drivers compatible with OS 10.5? When will Ensemble work with Leopard?

2) When can we expect to be able to aggregate an Ensemble and Duet together?

Thanks!
Old 24th October 2007
  #498
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peterhecht View Post
I use "only" the Pre's and A/D D/A on ULN2... If that equal to duet's sound quality - I will sell my ULN2 - Duet is more mobile...
Perhaps confusing the issue here ...

If you mean you use the ULN-2 as a stand-alone preamp and AD/DA, then the Duet can't replace those functions. It's preamps and ADC output only to Firewire, and its DAC accepts input only from Firewire.

If you mean you use the ULN-2 as a Firewire interface with mic inputs and analog line outputs, then the Duet could replace it. You'd be missing the inserts and the outputs wouldn't be balanced, but other than that it should functionally be the same.

The portability difference seems pretty marginal, especially considering the durability advantage of not using a breakout cable.

JSL
Old 24th October 2007
  #499
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ticctacc's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by chk027 View Post
Thanks for the post, Im glad to hear this thing is holding up to the hype. maybe you could post how to set up the agg device....that would be great too.

I hope my Duet ships this week but who knows>>?????

Apogee and Apple getting it done for the home studio, at a great price. Keep the great affordable products coming..
to set up the agg device you open the audio MIDI Setup then you click audio /open aggregate editor. In the editor click the + button to create a aggregate device then in the structure section of the editor choose the audio devices you want to add. When you open logic it will give you the choice to use the aggregate device in you audio section. I Hope i helped i'm not good at typing directions so forgive me
Old 24th October 2007
  #500
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jslevin View Post
The portability difference seems pretty marginal, especially considering the durability advantage of not using a breakout cable.
Yeah but a breakout cable could also be an advantage if you only need the headphone out when just editing audio or composing with VIs. For me, the portability difference is definitely HUGE. The duet is much smaller and lighter. The Metric Halo cannot be bus-powered by newer MBPs (including mine).

Also the Duet + a long firewire cable + Apple Remote + Logic 8 is really handy for a musician who has to play and record him/herself.
Old 24th October 2007
  #501
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FFTT View Post
Well I was really still hoping for a QUARTET
Ditto
Old 24th October 2007
  #502
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schmacko View Post
2) When can we expect to be able to aggregate an Ensemble and Duet together?
… yes, I was a bit disappointed that at the moment it is not possible to aggregate the Duet with another firewire device, only the built in audio in the mac. I think the promotional material mislead me here, but perhaps I wasn't reading it carefully enough. Hopefully this will change soon with a software update.

Still a great unit, and no regrets about acquiring it.

Rob
Old 24th October 2007
  #503
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David Robinson's Avatar
 

hi guys,
been using apogee for 15yrs now.
i own a rosetta200 and now the duet, as well.
kudos, thumbs and toes up, +1, etc, for this fine company.
not much is good about the USA nowadays, but apogee are bucking that trend with this little box.
my ros200 is very jealous, btw.
it's the best of the bunch, right now.
*****************************
i can see a "quartet" on the horizon:
balanced +4dbu outs.
s/p dif i/o.
mains adapter.
two h/ps with own pres.
etc.

DR9.
Old 24th October 2007
  #504
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macgee's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nutkin View Post
… yes, I was a bit disappointed that at the moment it is not possible to aggregate the Duet with another firewire device, only the built in audio in the mac. I think the promotional material mislead me here, but perhaps I wasn't reading it carefully enough. Hopefully this will change soon with a software update.

Still a great unit, and no regrets about acquiring it.

Rob
i was able to aggregate my Motu 828MKII with the Duet. it took me a while but i eventually plugged the duet into the serial port on the 828MKII which worked.
plugging the duet into the firewire port on the mac like the 828MKII was caused the motu to quiver (wobbly sound) though duet stayed stable but the serial port on motu worked a treat! i didn't actually know it wasn't supposed to work!
Old 24th October 2007
  #505
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Robinson View Post
my ros200 is very jealous, btw.
it's the best of the bunch, right now.
*****************************
DR9.
Really? Are you saying you prefer the sound of your Duet over your Rosetta? or the Rosetta is still the best? Thanks for the info BTW too!
Old 24th October 2007
  #506
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macleodgrant View Post
i was able to aggregate my Motu 828MKII with the Duet. it took me a while but i eventually plugged the duet into the serial port on the 828MKII which worked.
plugging the duet into the firewire port on the mac like the 828MKII was caused the motu to quiver (wobbly sound) though duet stayed stable but the serial port on motu worked a treat! i didn't actually know it wasn't supposed to work!
I could aggregate my Duet with my Konnekt too. Playback was OK but the sound recorded using the duet was distorted.
Old 24th October 2007
  #507
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i did a shootout on the DA between the motu & apogee in the same logic session, 2 different tracks with same audio going to separate outs

i know max said there's no benefit sonically of having balanced outs but in my system where everything is balanced, i got a ground loop that i had to track down. i went balanced so i didn't have to worry about stuff like that. i know the power usage would be higher but could this not be an option that could be turned on or off as required to limit power usage when balanced isn't required?

interestingly, the ground loop didn't affect the headphone outs

one more question, would muting the main outs lessen the power usage when not required and just using the headphone outs?
Old 24th October 2007
  #508
Gear Nut
 

I think Max had said earlier the reason for unbalanced outs was to avoid having an output transformer to keep the cost and size down to where they are. As for dealing with the unbalanced outputs, would using an external DI type device to change the unbalanced to a balanced signal work for your situation?
Old 24th October 2007
  #509
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeronimo View Post
I doubt the ULN-2 sounds "better" than the Duet
I'm just wondering why you say that.
Have you heard them both?
Old 24th October 2007
  #510
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jslevin View Post
I can't speak to the sound quality, though I would expect them to be very close.

However, the ULN-2 is a much more full-featured product. It has a full compliment of two-channel digital i/o, including word clock, S/PDIF and AES/EBU. This allows you to use it as a stand-alone preamp and/or AD and/or DA -- or to take four channels in and out (both analog and digital) at a time. It has fully balanced analog i/o including insert points for both analog inputs. It also has a presets (ten I think) which allow you to switch between complete i/o and routing setups even with no computer attached.

JSL
there appear to be a raft of upgrades for the MIO range on the way including adat optical for the ULN-2.
http://metricusers.com/vforum/commen...&page=1#Item_4
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