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Apogee Duet, professional two-channel firewire audio interface for the Mac Audio Interfaces
Old 9th October 2007
  #331
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jslevin's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveE9C6 View Post
First... congrats to Apogee on what appears to be a very nice product. I'm not a Mac user though and don't see myself ever buying one. I remain puzzled at the lack of Win XP drivers. My understanding of the market is that at this price point, the Windows market is huge. Is Apogee simply not interested in the windows market? I mean the Apple/Windows wars are so.... yesterday.
No. It's tiny -- the market of Windows users who would pay $500 for a two-channel interface. And the cost of developing drivers for and supporting those users is enormous.

JSL
Old 9th October 2007
  #332
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stag's Avatar
 

Talking miracle worker?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveE9C6 View Post
First... congrats to Apogee on what appears to be a very nice product. I'm not a Mac user though and don't see myself ever buying one. I remain puzzled at the lack of Win XP drivers. My understanding of the market is that at this price point, the Windows market is huge. Is Apogee simply not interested in the windows market? I mean the Apple/Windows wars are so.... yesterday.

I don´t know if that´s a war.
I asked the same very question when tha Ensemble was out, about three times, i was ignored. No problem, I´m sure that it´s just another audio interface not a miracle worker.
Old 9th October 2007
  #333
Gear Addict
 

What the F is taking these things so long? Did the apogee building catch on fire or something? Are they being made in Myanmar?

Good pres, Good clock, good converters, good drivers?, $495, plus logic, another $500.
Old 9th October 2007
  #334
Gear Head
 
sounden's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by chk027 View Post
What the F is taking these things so long? Did the apogee building catch on fire or something? Are they being made in Myanmar?
My is on its way with UPS

Hopefully here on thursday.

//S
Old 9th October 2007
  #335
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by sounden View Post
My is on its way with UPS

Hopefully here on thursday.

//S
Please tell us from where? You`re the second person who says that... Vincent told us that Playback-Europe (France) has them in stock, but that was a mistake. Now they corrected the date on their website. I would appreciate if you could tell us when you hold the Duet in your hands... Thanks!
Old 9th October 2007
  #336
Gear Maniac
Quote:
No. It's tiny -- the market of Windows users who would pay $500 for a two-channel interface. And the cost of developing drivers for and supporting those users is enormous.

JSL
I don't agree with this at all.

*First, the most popular and most widely used DAW on the planet is Sonar. While there are a few folks running this on Intell/Macs, most are using PC's running XP.

* The MSRP is $495. So these will start turning up street priced ~ $350 or so. That is essentially entry level pricing and certainly less than products from Mackie, Presonus, and TC.

*While many of the "Slutz" posters may be in pro studios or use Macs, the vast majority of "prosumer home recording" is done with a PC on windows.




Gearslutz is a board which tends to cater to a slightly higher end Mac-centric market. There are very popular websites/forums which have a very large audience of primarily home recording/songwriters studios, etc. For example, Cakewalk forum, Homerecording.com, Harmony Central, etc... While many of these folks are new to recording or hobbyist in nature, I get the sense that they are always looking for quality products at nice price points. Personally, I think this product is priced at a point that virtually anyone could afford. However, if they also have to buy a Mac to use it, it becomes a deal breaker.
Old 9th October 2007
  #337
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveE9C6 View Post
Gearslutz is a board which tends to cater to a slightly higher end Mac-centric market.

It is also a board where some talk out of their arse because they have nothing better to do.
Old 9th October 2007
  #338
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordnielson View Post
It is also a board where some some talk out of their arse because they have nothing better to do.


... ah yes, your point is well illustrated.
Old 9th October 2007
  #339
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kevinc's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by lordnielson View Post
It is also a board where some talk out of their arse because they have nothing better to do.


Well said !

Very true.


Old 9th October 2007
  #340
16942
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kevinc View Post
Nice ! thumbsup
As a guy originally form Winthrop, "Go Red Sox!"
Old 9th October 2007
  #341
Gear Maniac
BTW...
Since my post was apparently interpreted as a reiteration of the Mac-vs-PC debate, it is not. Nor is it a commentary on anyone here in regards to their personal choice of DAW software. It is simply a reflection of market share in the sub-high end arena. I don't personally care which platform you use. You should use whatever works for your individual needs.

This product is not priced targeting high end users. This price point will appeal to many entry level hobbyist enthusiasts... especially, those who read and try to educate themselves prior to a purchase.

I think that Apogee would sell thousands of these if they bundled them with say Sonar Studio, Cubase LE, Tracktion, Reaper, etc..

Not that it will happen... Apogee does make nice tools for Windows users as well, just not at this price point.
Old 9th October 2007
  #342
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jslevin's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveE9C6 View Post
I think that Apogee would sell thousands of these if they bundled them with say Sonar Studio, Cubase LE, Tracktion, Reaper, etc..
And the entire history of Windows products says you're wrong. There are a wide variety of products with a similar functions set available for $100 to $200. Just to name a few, Presonus Inspire, Alesis IO-2, Lexicon Alpha and Lambda, M-Audio Fast Track. Sweetwater has more than 20 different ones. Against that field, a $500 product is unlikely to attract "entry level hobbyists" in any significant numbers.

A. There are hundreds of thousands of home studio users running Sonar.

B. There are a few thousand people who would be willing to pay $500 rather than $150 for the same feature set with much higher quality.

But the overlap between Groups A and B is not that big. People who end up using Sonar almost never pay $500 when they could do okay just with something that only costs $150. If they did things like that, they'd probably have a Mac. I'm not saying the those decisions are right or wrong, just that that's the spending pattern of those consumers, it's affinity. You're not gonna sell a lot of fine wine standing outside a White Castle.

I'm not saying you can't dredge up a few dozen total Mac-haters who dropped a little coin on an RME interface, but that's about it. In the Sonar world, a Fireface would be considered high-end. For a Mac consumer, that would be mid-range.

But I'm sure you know this market better than me, and Metric-Halo, and Apogee.

JSL
Old 9th October 2007
  #343
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Realtugs's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jslevin View Post
But I'm sure you know this market better than me, and Metric-Halo, and Apogee.
Ouch...!
Old 9th October 2007
  #344
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveE9C6 View Post
First... congrats to Apogee on what appears to be a very nice product. I'm not a Mac user though and don't see myself ever buying one. I remain puzzled at the lack of Win XP drivers. My understanding of the market is that at this price point, the Windows market is huge. Is Apogee simply not interested in the windows market? I mean the Apple/Windows wars are so.... yesterday.
It seems to be an absolutely fantastic, breakthrough product (in terms of audio quality, ease of use). It hits the street at an unheard of price for the level of quality promised, and the street price is 495: Apogee Duet | Sweetwater.com

Remember that Apogee is still a somewhat smaller boutique company. Therefore they probably run on fairly slim profit margins especially at this price point), and the huge cost and headaches of development and support on Windows is absolutely not worth it.

Also, this product was developed apparently in very close connection with Apple, which may have involved contractual exclusivity for the Mac platform. In order to guarantee the highest possible level of integration and support, it makes total sense to marry the product to the Mac platform only.

Anyhow, the choice of platform is irrelevant for serious audio. Engineers and musicians will use whatever platform drives the software and hardware they wish to use to achieve their goals. Why pander a product to every market and then sacrifice quality/reliability as a result?

There is absolutely no good reason for the Duet to ever be compatible with the Windows platform.

Even if Apogee were not under strict contractual obligations to provide the Duet purely for the Mac platform, there would be no good reason to ever make it compatible with the Windows platform. There are plenty of perfectly fine interfaces that work with Sonar on the PC or whatever, and it is an over saturated market as it is.

Ultra-Slim profit margins, contractual obligations, total integration on the platform, high-level customer support - these points are all relevant to the Mac only focus of the product. No one product can be all things to all people and to all platforms - why not focus on one platform and make it really, really good?

This seems to be something, special, unique, a no-compromise product which will further distinguish the Mac platform. It is also further proof that your (new) Mac is your dongle (à la Logic Studio, iLife, etc.).

Quality products like this help make the case for buying a Mac when you are computer shopping: ease of use, total integration, reasonable price for high quality...it sells Macs! This is totally in line with Apple's brilliant marketing strategy: make great cheap (or free) software available to everyone (iTunes, Logic Studio, iLife) to drive hardware sales (Macs, iPods, Apogee products, etc.).
Old 10th October 2007
  #345
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Vocalvoodoo's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JGuitar02 View Post

Quality products like this help make the case for buying a Mac when you are computer shopping: ease of use, total integration, reasonable price for high quality...it sells Macs!
Great point, and I'm living proof. I'm buying a Mac, first, just so I can use the Duet which I've pre-ordered (I'm a VO and radio production guy so I don't need lots of I/O), and second so I can use Logic 8. I've never owned a Mac but I'm quite excited to finally get it, Logic and the Duet. I feel this will be quite a step up from my PC, MBox2 and PT LE. And at a very reasonable price to boot. The complete integration is also another huge selling point for me.
Old 10th October 2007
  #346
Gear Head
 
sounden's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Egopanic View Post
Please tell us from where? You`re the second person who says that... Vincent told us that Playback-Europe (France) has them in stock, but that was a mistake. Now they corrected the date on their website. I would appreciate if you could tell us when you hold the Duet in your hands... Thanks!

Yes I ordered it from Playback-Europe, How can it be a mistake?
I actually called them and confirmed that my order and that they
had it in stock.

Corrected the date? maby they are out of stock atm?

Haha what did they send me if thats the case?

Anyway I will pick-up the package tomorrow evening and report back
to you.

//S
Old 10th October 2007
  #347
Gear Head
 

To successfully launch a mass market product you need mass marketing which costs a lot. The tie in with Apple will give Apogee the sort of marketing push for the Duet that they could only dream of otherwise. Without the Apple hook up would they even be entering such a congested market place? Or be able to develop and produce the Duet to the standard they have?

The payback is that it's Mac only. Apogee are no doubt happy with that too. In the same way that a fashion brand does not want everybody to be able to afford its clothes, a high end audio manufacturer for perfectly sound business reasons may want to protect its niche. Apogee can have its cake and eat it with this new product range - develop mass products whilst keeping its image of exclusivity.

Also, it cuts both ways. There's plenty of low end mass market audio products that are Windows only for the opposite reasons (FL, Acid Pro, etc).

Like most of you I just want a simple but affordable high end sound card that delivers top notch sound. If I'm willing to switch DAW to get that surely a PC user will consider doing the same by buying a Mac (as the poster above demonstrates).
Old 10th October 2007
  #348
Gear Maniac
 
BryanGamet's Avatar
 

i swear i bought this thing the week it was announced and i still havent recieved it.
no one even knows when its actually shipping


i cancelled my order tonight and will eventually get one when theyve actually met production and are available for sale.

sounds too good to be true :(
Old 10th October 2007
  #349
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kmshroom View Post
Duet+LogicPro = $1,495

I don't know anyone who buys Logic Express, but even that costs almost double what the Digi option does;

Duet+LogicExpress = $795
This part of your statement is no longer true as of the latest versions of Logic:

New Logic Pricing:
--------------
Logic 8 Express - $199 (now has all the Logic Pro features accept for Space Designer and like one other thing)

Logic Studio - $499 (now comes with Soundtrack Pro 2, MainStage and a bunch of other stuff)
------------------

So actually the Duet + Logic pricing is:

Duet+Logic Studio = $995

Duet+Logic 8 Express (now essentially Logic Pro w/o Space Designer) = $695
Old 10th October 2007
  #350
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by sounden View Post
Yes I ordered it from Playback-Europe, How can it be a mistake?
I actually called them and confirmed that my order and that they
had it in stock.

Corrected the date? maby they are out of stock atm?

Haha what did they send me if thats the case?

Anyway I will pick-up the package tomorrow evening and report back
to you.

//S
UPS tried to deliver a package from France to me twice, but I was at work. Now, it is scheduled to be delivered next Monday, when I am at home. And since I haven't ordered anything from France besides the Duet...

Cheers,
Vincent
Old 10th October 2007
  #351
Gear Head
 
sounden's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vunz View Post
UPS tried to deliver a package from France to me twice, but I was at work. Now, it is scheduled to be delivered next Monday, when I am at home. And since I haven't ordered anything from France besides the Duet...

Cheers,
Vincent
I will also be at work when they supposed to deliver the package, but I called
and told them that I will get the packet myself after work tomorrow.

//S
Old 10th October 2007
  #352
Gear Head
 

@Sounden and Vunz: Man, I`m really jealous at you guys! I just called Playback-Europe (should have done that earlier, lol) and they confirmed that they were one of the five first dealers of the world who received the Duet... now, they`re out of stock....

Well, bad luck for me this time...
Old 10th October 2007
  #353
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by jslevin View Post
And the entire history of Windows products says you're wrong. There are a wide variety of products with a similar functions set available for $100 to $200. Just to name a few, Presonus Inspire, Alesis IO-2, Lexicon Alpha and Lambda, M-Audio Fast Track. Sweetwater has more than 20 different ones. Against that field, a $500 product is unlikely to attract "entry level hobbyists" in any significant numbers.

A. There are hundreds of thousands of home studio users running Sonar.

B. There are a few thousand people who would be willing to pay $500 rather than $150 for the same feature set with much higher quality.

But the overlap between Groups A and B is not that big. People who end up using Sonar almost never pay $500 when they could do okay just with something that only costs $150. If they did things like that, they'd probably have a Mac. I'm not saying the those decisions are right or wrong, just that that's the spending pattern of those consumers, it's affinity. You're not gonna sell a lot of fine wine standing outside a White Castle.

I'm not saying you can't dredge up a few dozen total Mac-haters who dropped a little coin on an RME interface, but that's about it. In the Sonar world, a Fireface would be considered high-end. For a Mac consumer, that would be mid-range.

But I'm sure you know this market better than me, and Metric-Halo, and Apogee.

JSL

Well Jay... My comments and views are not biased by Mac vs PC. They were simply observations which I still believe to be true. Obviously, I'm not a big time studio owner such as you. I'm just a hobbyist with a nice home studio. I'm not at all concerned with the brand of tool I use as long as it works. Obviously, the most important tool is our own ears.

You make quite broad, sweeping generalizations about a large number of folks. Your statements really come off as quite condenscending which really puzzles me.

I certainly did not intend to stir up the same old tired Mac-vs-Pc argument. Thats fundamentally juvenile and akin to "Mine is bigger than yours".

Since I really have no dog in this fight, I'm going to bow out. I don't have any desire to derail the good news from Apogee.

Have a good day Jay



Oh... one other item. To the gentleman who quoted the Sweetwater price. That is List. If you pay List or even MAP from Sweetwater, well... you might want to shop somewhere else. Nothing against SW, in fact I just purchased a Roland sustain pedal from them at a great price. Years ago, I purchased my first real recording stuff from them (3 adats and a Mackie 24x8... all since long gone) However, when I bought my large format Soundcraft board, Manley, Neumans, ADL600, and QSC power amps, they were not willing to come off of MAP. I went elsewhere and saved thousands of dollars.
Old 10th October 2007
  #354
one question:
is it metal or plastic enclosure?
Old 10th October 2007
  #355
Here for the gear
 

I bought a Duet yesterday from Andertons in Guildford, UK.

It has worked flawlessly so far (G5 dual 2.5ghz) and surpasses my expectations soundwise (for the price) - though I have only used the line inputs so far. It is easily better than the RME ADI-2 I have been using.

It is nicely made, and all metal.

No buyers remorse so far!

Rob
Old 10th October 2007
  #356
Lives for gear
 
Vocalvoodoo's Avatar
 

That's great news that the have been released. I've seen nothing regarding my pre-order though. Maybe they haven't hit the states yet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nutkin View Post
I bought a Duet yesterday from Andertons in Guildford, UK.

It has worked flawlessly so far (G5 dual 2.5ghz) and surpasses my expectations soundwise (for the price) - though I have only used the line inputs so far. It is easily better than the RME ADI-2 I have been using.

It is nicely made, and all metal.

No buyers remorse so far!

Rob
Old 10th October 2007
  #357
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nutkin View Post
It is easily better than the RME ADI-2 I have been using.

Rob
Interesting. but good news nonetheless!
Old 10th October 2007
  #358
OMU
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OMU's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nutkin View Post
It is easily better than the RME ADI-2 I have been using.
That's an interesting impression. How would you describe "better" compared to the RME. I'm a FF800 user and I'm planning to add the Duet for maximum mobility, so I'm interested.
Old 10th October 2007
  #359
Here for the gear
 

Hi OMU,

What sounds better about the Duet to me, in relation to the ADI-2, is greater resolution of fine details, more precise stereo imaging and greater separation of individual instruments in a mix. I think the Duet has a slightly more controlled ('tighter') bass as well.

In case you are wondering, this opinion based on monitoring with a pair of Genelec 8030s. For comparison, the ADI-2 is lightpiped directly to the Macs optical digital outs.

I don't really record using mics (mainly just synths) so I can't really say anything about the pre's, though I am wondering about building a summing box to input into the Duet so I guess the pre's could be useful for gain makeup if I do that . . .

Rob
Old 10th October 2007
  #360
Lives for gear
 

Can the Duet be used with outboard gear? say us laptop users only have the Duet and want to get a hardware compressor, can the Duet make it work well?
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