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REAL WORLD BENCHMARK?!?!?!? (Stylus RMX,Korg Legacy Cell,Trilogy)
Old 5th September 2007
  #1
Gear Head
 

REAL WORLD BENCHMARK?!?!?!? (Stylus RMX,Korg Legacy Cell,Trilogy)

Hi people! What are you thinking to make some "real world" test, about what configuration od DAW is better for users who work with a huge number of VST Instruments,and on the other hand some test for the people who is working mixing job?
I think that this stuff will be great for people who wanna buy new DAW,and they dont know what is the best choice for them! Agree??
Let`s start :
You can add,what kind of application you use,audio interface,your system configuration and how much is CPU usage in your application during the Test.
If you wanna i will make a short project with some VST instruments,and than to see differences beetwen a DAW-s?
Thanx
Old 5th September 2007
  #2
Old 5th September 2007
  #3
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by UnderTow View Post
Yes,exact that what i am talking about! Those tests are probably usefull for some who dont use a Big VST Instruments and dont use many of them!
Lets talking about Big and powerfull VSTI,who needs a much more CPU than a Magneto-s or some Steinberg Synths - like A1 (Korg Legacy Cell,Atmosphere,Stylus RMX...).
And also about some Waves IR Reverbs,Plates,WIZOOVerb W2,W5-
some really hungry CPU and RAM Instruments and non DSP plugins.
Old 6th September 2007
  #4
Lives for gear
 

Any tests for laptop processors ?
Old 6th September 2007
  #6
why do we need one?
Old 7th September 2007
  #7
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Ha,ha,ha! Ok and FORGET ABOUT IT!!!!
Old 7th September 2007
  #8
Lives for gear
 

???
what are you trying to say?

Scott
ADK
Old 7th September 2007
  #9
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by George Necola View Post
why do we need one?
AND BTW,IF THIS ANSWER BELONG TO A PC MODERATOR OF THIS FORUM,I DONT KNOW WHAT ARE YOU MODERATE AND HOW CAN YOU HELP PEOPLE!!! THANKS NECOLA 1 MORE TIME.
Old 7th September 2007
  #10
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jcschild View Post
???
what are you trying to say?

Scott
ADK
Hi Scot! I have read lots of your posts and see that you are really pro! I am searching for advice to buy new DAW,which can handle all my requests about producing music. A
Like i said in the theme of this posts,i am searching for a computer that can handle with 20 VST Instruments without CPU limitation.
I have buy Q6600 2,4 Ghz with the Asus P5K mainboard,2 Gb Dual channel Value Ram from Kingston (800 MHz)-audio interface is RME Fireface 800,And i was not satisfied.
After 10 VSTI my ASIO meter was on 80%-Cubase SX3! (Trilogy,Stylus RMX, 2XKorg Legacy,Virtual Guitarist,Grand Piano 1 and some other plugs).
Do you have some recommendation about PC , that can handle with all my wishes.
I dont working mix and mastering,cause that goes in other studio to finalize!
Thanks man!
Old 7th September 2007
  #11
Lives for gear
 

HI,

first let me answer why you do not see benchmarks like this.

the main goal of us who actually publish benchmarks aside from the obvious
is so the tests can be duplicated by others. very very fwe people would have 5-6 different samplers i would try to use in a test.

we tried doing several tests with "demo" verisons like NI etc.
what we ended up with was a huge headache.

either the demo would time out ofter 1-2 reboots or it would bsod the system etc.

We had discussed doing a series of tests like you asked (geared toward sample based people) but the time involved is astronomical and fwe people would be able to verify our findings.

My goal with the benchmarks page was never to be about what an ADK system can do but rather what the individual processor can.

if i start to publish tests that are not validatable by the masses it would be likely i would be accused of "fixing" the test!

now to answer your question.

most of what you mentioned is NOT quad core able and a few i think are not really dual core able.

so whats a sample guy to do?

run the fastest GHz wise and the fastest FSB wise.

we recommend the 1333 FSB processors for sampling particularly the 3G

and of course DDR 2 800 CL4

of course you should be doing like most who are sample heavy (orchestral guys). run 2-6 systems.

FYI DDR3 is an absolute joke for audio, the latency is so high, its worse for audio than ddr2 533.

Scott
ADK
Old 7th September 2007
  #12
Gear Head
 

Ok Scott thanks!
Now simple question,is it better for my use to buy 2 Dual Xeon 5130 processor,CL4 Memory or to buy some Quad core (QX6850) or some Core 2 Duo with CL4 memory-(Cubase SX3,Windows XP Home or PRO).
I dont have a money to buy 2-6 computers.
Sorry for taking your time,and one more time BIG THANKS!!!
Old 7th September 2007
  #13
Lives for gear
 

HI
Xeons will offer you less ability than a single quad particularly @ low latency.

even a dual quad Xeon does not do as well as a single quad @ low latency.
plus cubase has issues with 8 cpus.

a dual E6850 would do better for sampling than a Q6600.

you could also try overclocking your 6600.

FYI an older computer used for VSTi would be fine

Scott
ADK
Old 8th September 2007
  #14
Gear Head
 

Scott
ADK[/quote]

Just one more question,and no more!!!!heh

What is better choice-MOBO (q6600) :
To buy P35 chipset Mobo from Asus-P5k Deluxe or something from Intel;or go with some older-like Asus P5W DH Deluxe or Intel XBX2.
Older are working ok,but what is with P35 chip?
Thanks man,and i will buy U a drink and send it VIA DHL!!!!!!!!!!!!hehheh
Old 8th September 2007
  #15
Lives for gear
 
Tibbon's Avatar
This seems like a waste of time. I'm going to go with George in asking, "why do you need one?"

If you're running a professional studio, then you just buy a computer, and go on with it. You find out if it's fast enough for your tasks or not. Generally it is fast enough. Were I still running a commercial studio I'd just go out an buy a 8-core Mac Pro, throw 8gb of memory in it, and call it a day. I wouldn't worry about how many instances of D-Verb I can run so that I could brag about it.

In a professional environment, your time is worth more than what you get out of benchmarking systems and taking time to build them. Saved yourself $200 in building a computer yourself? After shipping, taxes, and your time (if you spent 4 hours at all doing this then you probably wasted $200 right there) then you're screwed. Just go turnkey. It's not worth it.

If you're not running a professional studio, then you don't "need" to have the fastest system. Any modern system will do computing just fine.
Old 8th September 2007
  #16
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by genelec79 View Post
Scott
ADK
Just one more question,and no more!!!!heh

What is better choice-MOBO (q6600) :
To buy P35 chipset Mobo from Asus-P5k Deluxe or something from Intel;or go with some older-like Asus P5W DH Deluxe or Intel XBX2.
Older are working ok,but what is with P35 chip?
Thanks man,and i will buy U a drink and send it VIA DHL!!!!!!!!!!!!hehheh[/QUOTE]


P35 and stay away from Asus
Old 9th September 2007
  #17
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tibbon View Post
If you're running a professional studio, then you just buy a computer, and go on with it. You find out if it's fast enough for your tasks or not. Generally it is fast enough. Were I still running a commercial studio I'd just go out an buy a 8-core Mac Pro, throw 8gb of memory in it, and call it a day. I wouldn't worry about how many instances of D-Verb I can run so that I could brag about it.
It's not about bragging.

It's about making sure a machine can deliver and meet your needs. composers using soft samplers and soft synths are taxing their machines WAY more than a studio is.
It's not about plug counts. He's asking about power for VSTI instruments. Different beast to slay.

And you suggestion to just by an 8 core mac is deadly at the moment for composer types. guys running soft samplers are running into a cool little OSX bug where you hit 3.5 gigs of loaded ram and it then jumps to 1 terrabyte of ram being used - with the spinning beach ball of death soon thereafter.
those 8 gigs of ram are wasted money at the moment until apple plugs this memory leak bug. The only way to now about this bug is to ask this exact question.

On the PC side its all about processor+motherboard. Some combinations yeild great results while others are a nightmare.

Asking guys to post processor load results is incredibly helpful for these types of decisions. My 4 sample farm pc's where put together based on me asking exactly this question (in sample composer forums).
One knowledgable guy posted the exact specs he found yeilded very stable gigastudio machines. I just bought exactly what he suggestion and it allowed a dumb Mac guy like me to build my own PC's that are to this day rock solid.
Literally priceless information - but ya gotta ask the question.

Quite a few guys bought new macpro 8 cores to use with VSL's library and man are they in a world of hurt at this moment while waiting for apple to fix the memory leak bug. The only way to know if your dream machine can deliver what you hope is to ask this question. He is just asking it in the wrong forum.

A universal kontakt/cpu/ram stress test would be a good idea as its the most common soft sampler at the moment.
Old 9th September 2007
  #18
Lives for gear
 
Tibbon's Avatar
edham- You're right in that some combinations of stuff just doesn't work well.

Had a friend that stays bleeding edge normally, with a pretty good sized studio near here. He runs Logic with the TDM bridge. He had a HUGE HD system. When Logic 7 (or I can't remember which piece) came out, he ran out and got a few huge HD systems, Logic 7 and some new G5 macs. Apparently at the time, HD + G5 + Logic 7 (although it should work in theory) didn't work. It was a work of hurt for him.

I guess I just figured (and assumed) that the guy was running more of a recording studio than a composition studio. My bad.

Still, I've always felt that benchmarks are a poor way generally to go about purchasing procedures. They rarely all line up and point to "this is the perfect system".

I could care less for example about the benchmarks on my MBP. I like the form factor and other features more than any benchmark on a Dell or Alienware laptop that had hacked OS X to run on it.
Old 9th September 2007
  #19
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tibbon View Post
Still, I've always felt that benchmarks are a poor way generally to go about purchasing procedures. They rarely all line up and point to "this is the perfect system".
That's a great point. RARELY does the best benchmarked machine turn out to be the best Audio machine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tibbon View Post
I could care less for example about the benchmarks on my MBP. I like the form factor and other features more than any benchmark on a Dell or Alienware laptop that had hacked OS X to run on it.
You may have just cost me $2600.
I've been on the edge of buying a MBP 17". ....... can't .... stop ..... from taking .....credit card .... out of wallet........ www.apple.com/store.........
Old 9th September 2007
  #20
Gear Maniac
Yep I did the 3 computer system builds in 4 years. Saved some $$ using parts out of the older and into the newer. Working through forums building ...almost... what was suggested as I still had ram and Hd's that were sorta good.
But I never had the performance in them, reliability wasn't there doing it myself.
In the end I went with a Mac Pro
#1 Because I wanted to use Logic Pro, yes I had OSX running on my C2D with it and it reminded me of how I used to work.
#2 It costed a little more, and I have nothing in that Mac that was in an older computer. Found out my 2 Sata drives were vibrating etc.
#3 There isn't much I can do to the Mac Pro to get more performance, baring more Hd's, well they can only take Sata drives, so my old 30 gig ide drives can finally rest easier in the kids computer as a raid 0 for whatever. Where my Pc, there was always better this or better that to try. In the Mac I made myself have to stick with one system for 3 years!
#4 Which ever machine you do go with, we're lucky enough to have machines that can handle what we throw at them and still have some horsepower left to spare for posting on a forum.
#4.2, My MacPro, 5 gigs ram, 4 Sata Hd's and Logic Pro can handle Ezdrummer, BFD, Waves SSL across all channels, IR, Ivory, Sculpture, RMX, and more I'm probably missing, all as my default template. It works, with low latency, reliable and I never see the system struggling.
#4.3 I'd go with a 4 core system whatever the brand, I'd figure a laptop might not be the best solution for a more sample based system as those libraries need lots of Hd space and streaming from multiple drives. With FW options for everything from Hd's to audio and DSP cards you'll run out of I/O before the CPU and Ram are even an issue.
#5 Once you pick something, stick with it for at least 3 years so that you actually use the damn thing. It's been nice using the Mac Pro for writing and not for trying out a driver issues or updating...
#6 I think both Vista and Leopard are about a year away from really changing the way samplers will be used, should be an interesting time ahead. Imagine loading 16 gigs of sample libraries for you're startup song and just audition everything without waiting...
Gonna be fun.
Later
Old 9th September 2007
  #21
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Tibbon's Avatar
I simply realized that in general building systems isn't worth my time. They aren't interesting to me like building other electronics.

You think that you'd be able to get a better 'deal' in building a system, but really when Dell calls nVidia and says they want 100,000 video cards... they get far better a deal than you ever will on the cards. You pay a premium to them to build the system, test it, and support it... but at the end of the day it's really worth it for your time.

Support is soooo key. If you've got a work environment that demands little downtime, then paying for a support contract is so key. I was working at a photography studio and one of our systems went down, a dell tech was there within the hour to fix it. That's the type of service you want. That was quicker than I could have driven to CompUsa and gotten new parts, etc...

Don't just look at the raw price costs. Those are misleading. Your guitar is nothing more than $300 of wood (if that). Your amp is a $100 transformer, some tubes, and a few passive components. Your guitar pedals are dirt cheap inside too.

An Apple X-SAN looks to be a 'bad deal' when you consider than you can buy a networked san hard drive for a few hundred bucks. Then you consider multiple raid controllers, hotswapable drives, hotswapable redundant power supplies, enterprise support, fibre channel, efficient cooling design, etc... and you realize that it's not just a hard drive that you're benchmarking agaist. You're looking at what your business is worth per hour. If it's down for an hour, what is that doing to you? If you loose a month of work, what does that do to you? etc.
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