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Hardware Sampler Drum Machines & Samplers
Old 4th September 2007
  #1
Gear Nut
 

Hardware Sampler

I am looking for a sampler that I can use to manipulate samples (timestretch), with the least artifacts. I have been using softsamplers, but I tend to get artificacts of some kind. So I figured a hardware sampler must be the best way to go.
Additionally, I am talking about sampling old vinyl loops for instance.
I would appreciate any feedback.
Thanks!
Old 5th September 2007
  #2
Gear Addict
 
Will's Avatar
 

If you are time streching stuff you will always get artifacts, the amount will change depending on which applications you use but you will always get it (using a hardware sampler won't change this).

The Akai S3200 is a great sampler (old now but you can pick them up cheap), I used to use one all the time, alot of people still do.

If your sampling vinyl then remember to either put the signal through a record pre-amp or use an RCA EQ on it (I think thats what its called... Waves Q EQ has it anyways, it is just the opposite EQ curve from the one added to the master as they cut the record, otherwise your samples will sound wrong).
Old 5th September 2007
  #3
Gear Nut
 
MeatPye's Avatar
 

I think you'll find the artifacts from a hardware sampler more pronounced than in a modern software sampler - simply because the algorithms have come a long way since the Akai S series (etc) was developed.
Old 5th September 2007
  #4
Lives for gear
 
The MPCist's Avatar
 

There will be artifacts in any processing of audio in a hardware sampler. MeatPye is right.

Do it this way, get an S5000 or MPC4000. Hook it up with your computer via USB. Do any editing in Peak/PT/whatever and send it back into the sampler. You could even chop it up/Recycle it/etc...

I use alot of softsynths/samplers such as Kontakt2, Battery, Structure, etc but I still run my hardware samplers since they do have a 'sound' and like them for it.

S5000
S6000
MPC60
MPC1000
MPC2000XL
MPC3000
MPC4000
a few Emu EIV's as well.
Old 5th September 2007
  #5
Gear Guru
 
RoundBadge's Avatar
Serato Pitch n' time rules for time stretch..better than any hardware I've used.
I think PT has some newer improved algorithms too.
Old 5th September 2007
  #6
Gear Addict
 
Will's Avatar
 

+ 1 for serato. Pitch & Time 2 can time stretch over multiple tracks too.
Old 5th September 2007
  #7
LAU
Gear Maniac
 
LAU's Avatar
 

Serato PnT is nice but the 'smeared bins' because of the phase vocoder algorithm are quite audible especially at extreme settings.....

Both Digidesign's x-form plug-in which uses the Radius algorithm developed by Izotope
and also Prosoniq time factory 2 outperform Serato PnT imho.


Even when using high quality plug-ins as the ones mentioned above, it still requires fiddling with the settings to get the best results

Serato · Products · Pitch 'n Time Pro

Prosoniq Products Software Home Page

Digidesign | Products | Products | X-Form
Old 5th September 2007
  #8
LAU
Gear Maniac
 
LAU's Avatar
 

Serato PnT is nice but the 'smeared bins' because of the phase vocoder algorithm are quite audible especially at extreme settings.....

Both Digidesign's x-form plug-in which uses the Radius algorithm developed by Izotope
and also Prosoniq time factory 2 outperform Serato PnT imho.


Even when using high quality plug-ins as the ones mentioned above, it still requires fiddling with the settings to get the best results

Serato · Products · Pitch 'n Time Pro

Prosoniq Products Software Home Page

http://www.digidesign.com/index.cfm?...=1&itemid=4954
Old 5th September 2007
  #9
Lives for gear
 
jeremy.c.'s Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by the_abbot View Post
I am looking for a sampler that I can use to manipulate samples (timestretch), with the least artifacts. I have been using softsamplers, but I tend to get artificacts of some kind. So I figured a hardware sampler must be the best way to go.
Additionally, I am talking about sampling old vinyl loops for instance.
I would appreciate any feedback.
Thanks!
As already stated you're not really going to get around this by going with a hardware sampler, however, there may be a few work arounds or compromises to actually digitally stretching or compressing the time signature.

You could always speed the record up or slow it down to the tempo you need, just like a DJ would. This would be the original/classic way to set the tempo up.
You could also play the sample up or down the keyboard to speed it up or slow it down, this also introduces no artifacts, but it does change your pitch as well. In the past I needed a loop faster, but in the same key. So I pitchshifted it down a few steps, then played that sample up the keyboard a few notes and rendered it like that. Then when I stretched it to make it fit perfectly it was an extremely minimal change which introduced very little artifacts.
It sounds more convoluted than it actually is, but it worked pretty well, much better than compressing something by 20 bpm.
Old 5th September 2007
  #10
Gear Nut
 

Thank you!
I really appreciate the info you've given me!
Old 6th September 2007
  #11
Lives for gear
 

how is serato PnT for timestretching compare to Melodyne?

is PnT exclusive to protools? will it run on logic?
Old 6th September 2007
  #12
Gear Nut
 

Question:
Can PnT detect the original bpm?
Also, a general sampling question:
Let's say I have a 2 bar phrase that I want to use as a loop. The phrase ends at the upbeat of three in the second measure. (So 1-2-3-4,1-2-3*)
How do you guys get a sample like this to fit into a 2 bar loop in 4/4 time? Is time stretching the answer, or chopping the sample?
Old 6th September 2007
  #13
Lives for gear
 
jeremy.c.'s Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by the_abbot View Post
Question:
Can PnT detect the original bpm?
Also, a general sampling question:
Let's say I have a 2 bar phrase that I want to use as a loop. The phrase ends at the upbeat of three in the second measure. (So 1-2-3-4,1-2-3*)
How do you guys get a sample like this to fit into a 2 bar loop in 4/4 time? Is time stretching the answer, or chopping the sample?
I would consider adding a beat in (bar 2, beat 4) by cutting it from whatever sample in the loop you want there, like a snare hit, or if you want it silent you would have to add silence to the end and try to find the length of the loop. Generally in a situation like this I drop the loop in Cubase (use any DAW of your choice) and set up a click track. I then set a loop to two bars and situate the sample at the beginning. I keep pushing the tempo around until I can get it to sync up to the click track. Then you can truncate the sample loop down and export it or resize it or whatever.
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