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Getting back on the horse...PT must go.
Old 16th February 2021
  #1
Lives for gear
 
Ari-M.'s Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Getting back on the horse...PT must go.

Irrelevant....delete this horror show...

Last edited by Ari-M.; 5 days ago at 02:09 PM..
Old 16th February 2021
  #2
Lives for gear
 
abell1234's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Bummer about logic. Your reasons are own, i respect it. But a bummer still. I have found logic to be the best daw for songwriting. Its very friendly to making music.

Your post has reminded me of how far things have come. I bought a 4 track in highschool (1990s) and moved to a roland vs then PT. Now in my music room at home i have an M1 with an apollo twin mk1. Those two boxes would have been flying cars or jetpacks in the 90s. Regardless of what daw you pick youll probably be happy. And depending on how long youve been out of producing music, you might get your mind blown by how far things have come. We got cheapish virtual studios now with solid emulations of any gear you want.
Old 16th February 2021
  #3
Gear Head
 
🎧 10 years
With Reaper, you can have any interface you want, including some that are PT inspired, or even PT identical.

Personally, due to the nature of my work, I have to deal with just about every DAW in existence and, in my view,
nothing can rival Reaper in terms of flexibility, fast development, CPU efficiency, features, backward/forward compatibilities and superb community.
Old 16th February 2021
  #4
Lives for gear
 
Jake's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Changing to any new DAW will involve a significant learning curve. I'm another Logic user (sorry!) but if I was locked in to a PC platform I'd give Reaper a good look -- for only $60 it's practically a no brainer and it has a solid reputation and strong user base.

EDIT: Just missed your post on Reaper!
Old 16th February 2021
  #5
Lives for gear
 
With respect to Reaper...you may be able to make it look like PT, but you can't duplicate all the functions, the big one being playlists, which don't exist in Reaper.

You don't have to get sucked into tweaking and customizing Reaper, and one of the big selling points for me of Reaper is the incredibly useful tutorial videos by Kenny Gioia that are available on the Reaper website. I wouldn't even attempt to learn Reaper without watching those videos; they will save you weeks of time and get you up and running quickly.

There are some pretty big enhancements coming for Reaper that will improve the take system and editing.

If you really want "simple" you can also check out Harrison Mixbus or the DAW it's built on, Ardour. If you do a lot of MIDI work I'd look elsewhere, but for everything else they are excellent, probably the most efficient editing workflow you'll find in any DAW, lots of useful tools (polarity optimizer in Mixbus, loudness assistant, etc.), etc. Comping is a bit clunky, but both Ardour and Mixbus have playlists.
Old 16th February 2021
  #6
Gear Guru
 
Brent Hahn's Avatar
 
1 Review written
🎧 15 years
If you're learning a new DAW from scratch, it's "pick your poison." If you refuse to use Apple products and/or the DAW you already have and know, you're punishing yourself far more than you're punishing them. If you really can't play like you could at one time, that's a far bigger issue than the sound quality of your converters.

While I can mix on a current native DAW if I want to, I track and mix on my antique Mac/TDM/192 rig every day. Anything wrong with the work is my fault, not the rig's.
Old 16th February 2021 | Show parent
  #7
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Hahn ➡️
If you refuse to use Apple products and/or the DAW you already have and know, you're punishing yourself far more than you're punishing them.
Really this...why put barriers between you and your creativity just to make a point to a corporation who doesn't give a flying F? If the point is to get back making music ASAP, if you already know how to use Logic, this seems like the...ahem...logical route. The new M1 Macs are stupid fast and cheap so it's not even like the barrier to entry is high.

Yes some of their business practices suck. Yes I use their products... like you, a lot of people I work with use Logic as well so I have to be able to open their projects.

Also maybe consider: there's no reason to be exclusive to one DAW....writing in Ableton is totally different to writing in Logic or Cubase etc...if you're just doing this for fun, why not get deep into Ableton for awhile after 11 comes out, get deep into Logic for awhile, get deep into Reaper/Bitwig/Cubase/Studio One for while etc....as long as you vibe with the app on some basic level, each DAW will get something different out of you.

For my own completely non-commercial music project, I challenged myself to write for a year using a Tempest and Logic. After that, then challenged myself to only use Ableton ITB for a year. Completely different workflows, completely different fun. Surprising too, I dug Ableton way more than I expected and would love to pick up a Push II at some point...

just my 2 cents...
Old 16th February 2021
  #8
Gear Addict
 
Anthony Quinn's Avatar
 
For whatever reason, Reaper has been my easiest to use, although I only use it in its default configuration, and definitely don’t know it inside out, but also don’t really want to. I pick up a feature whenever I really need it. The cool thing is any option I need is most likely in there.
Old 16th February 2021
  #9
Lives for gear
 
StoneyBCN's Avatar
 
Interesting thread, welcome back to the world of engineering!

My first DAW was Cubase SX-something, way back in the day. I also had that last version of Loic that ran on Windows. A number of years ago now, I realized I was a bit out of date, and decided to stroke some curiousity by testing a few other DAW's as there were many coming out at the time, with their own features and fans.

Studio One, Reaper, Mixbuss, Samplitude, Cakewalk.... coming from Cubase, there was something highly frustrating about each of them (learning curve!), and some really cool things going for each also. I enjoyed Studio One the most, but Reaper is way better on computer resources and has that awesome community spirit, so I've settled with Reaper and been very happy - except working with Midi, that's when I miss Cubase.

I'm that kinda guy who gets swept away in customizing and building stuff and constantly tinkering with things endlessly, but I have to say that I've barely dipped in to all the many customizations available in Reaper - it worked great for me out of the box and still does. In fact, it's only now a few years and projects down the line, that I've started to give any thought into customizing some track templates, GUI stuff, etc etc.

On one hand I'm glad I didn't get bogged down with the customizations previously. On the other hand, I'm very happy that the possibility is there, as I'm starting to realize I could be getting a heck of a lot more out of the program if I do start digging in.

Not to play Devil's advocate I just empathize with where you're coming from
Old 16th February 2021 | Show parent
  #10
Lives for gear
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ari-M. ➡️
I just need a way to record myself and critique my playing. If it is expandable (should my playing go anywhere) that is gravy.
Seriously, if that's all you actually need (you don't say what you play...are you playing a midi keyboard, a guitar, a sax, or what?), you could just get a Sound Devices MixPre 3 with the Musician Plugin and use it like an old-fashioned tape machine. Excellent preamps, great DAW-like workflow with the Musician Plugin. You can layer up to 12 tracks, and more if you bounce. Has a decent headphone amp.

Of course if you need MIDI this isn't going to work but unless I missed it you never said what you play.
Old 16th February 2021
  #11
Lives for gear
 
ponzi's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I have cubase and fl studio. Right now playing more with fl studio because I am doing piano roll stuff. To the extent that recording is a significant goal, I think cubase is the better of those two. I just tried ableton lite and I did not like the UI. I think the strength of ableton is for live performance.

I imagine leaving pro tools involves losing a lot of muscle memory stuff, but I imagine you will learn the new stuff quickly enough. I would still be using logic but I switched to wintel a few years ago, for the usual reasons not relevant here, and when I looked at daw choices a few years ago, I got cubase. Its pretty mainstream and is used by orchestral types with hundreds of tracks, so it can support the largest projects imaginable.

I am sure you know more about these things, but for me, I have too many plug ins and would have trouble deciding what to use, so I simplified on scheps channel strip--for me its more than enough and I don't need to learn the strengths of many different products. So, for you diving in to a fresh setup, thinking about a minimal yet functional set of plugs is a way to spend money wisely. I also think the waves H series seems pretty fully featured. I don't like waves as a company, but their prices lately are hard to ignore. Also, Cubase comes with a lot of plugins and if I were not grandiose about what I am doing, I would probably find most of them fully sufficient for the task... Good luck! Its a drag to start over, but also a fun blank slate.

For VIs, I just got serum, and it looks like an extremely functional subtractive synth. I got komplete some years ago, not sure I would do it if I had a second chance, but that is where I get some nice piano/B3 and the like. Depending on the price right now, I like BBC symphony orchestra core for a nice one stop orchestra.
Old 16th February 2021
  #12
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
While I have a solid 15+ years of PT on my belt, I also hung them up in the last year...I still have a perpetual license but I’m not paying for “updates” (which are largely infrequent and inadequate) and I do not make my primary income on PT so I can’t justify a subscription. I do a mix of regular engineering with real bands and film. My main collaborator is a pro musician with all kinds of money for PT setups and I’ve largely kept it up to easily bounce to him, but a lot of that has died down as his schedule has put him on tour and such.

It could be a “Me” problem but I paid for Live 9 and a Push even a long time ago and I have a hard time clicking with that world. I probably should spend more time with it, I do a lot with electronic elements, but it seems problematic for real instrument workflows...

I used to love Reason for an “alternative” workflow, have been using it forever, and it’s still kind of cool but they drive me nuts too. Kind of a bloated mess nowhere near as stable and efficient as it used to be. Was a great program until they added VST support.

I have considered Logic because I do have a (old cheesegrater) Mac but I am reluctant to buy into that and lock myself into a Mac forever in case I decide I don’t want a Mac. It seems a good bang for buck though...not asking for $200 a year like some DAWs...

I’ve demoed studio one and it seemed solid.

Reaper I haven’t spent enough time in to decide if it’s acceptable for me or not...

Cubase seems like a logical choice but I’m a little afraid of steinberg employing an Avid approach to things in the near future...

In any case I don’t really have a need to move on unless I upgrade computers so I’m just kind of sitting here watching from a distance. I think m1 Macs are promising but I’m not ready to be the first on the block for that.
Old 16th February 2021 | Show parent
  #13
Lives for gear
 
ponzi's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ari-M. ➡️
...What is your opinion and experience with Cubase included libraries and Vi's? I played with them a bit, and was not overly impressed (I was actually very impressed with the stuff included with Live). I think my lack of enthusiasm for Cubase VI's is just due to my own inexperience using their tools. Can you confirm or deny?

Thanks gain, this is very helpful.
Short answer is I can't give much insight as I have not used them much. It comes with a light version of halion sampler. I can't recall if it has a nice piano and b3 init.

I think the cubase channel strip looks pretty good, but not used it since I have so many other plugs.

I have an odd situation were, due to a sale and impulse purchasing, I bought the full version of their sampler halion which comes with a ton of stuff. The user interface is counter-intuitive and I have not mastered it especially since its easy enough to load kontakt. But if I had to give up NI, I think the halion stuff would do the job.

I have not heard many people talking about the cubase included VIs being great, so I suspect one needs to look for third party VIs. The waves VIs look to me to be second tier, but inexpensive.

There is talk about native instruments in a time of corporate transition that makes some question their long term strategy. How much weight to put on that, I can't say. I had kontakt a long time ago, and due to some sale back in the day, ended up getting komplete. It has a lot of what I can use, so never really dug into alternatives. I did get that bbc orchestra, though, as komplete does not have full orchestral coverage and the BBCSO was under $300, so I could not pass it up...

PS. I just looked and waves diamond is under $300--don't know what your wup cost would be if you wanted to get current on that product. I imagine that would cover all imaginable plug-in needs. Not recommending it, but like all waves products--selling at 10% of what they used to.
Old 16th February 2021 | Show parent
  #14
Lives for gear
 
ponzi's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by kslight ➡️
...I have considered Logic because I do have a (old cheesegrater) Mac but I am reluctant to buy into that and lock myself into a Mac forever in case I decide I don’t want a Mac. It seems a good bang for buck though...not asking for $200 a year like some DAWs....

If a person is locked into apple, logic is a very nice route. Its inexpensive, but you have to buy it anew for each version. I had a 2010 cheesegrater, and I just got to worrying about what the next step would be, and if I could get parts if it broke down... Whether my thinking was sound on that, I cant be sure. Looks like if one waited for a 32 gig of ram mac mini, they might be in good enough shape to go forward for anything except orchestral. I have a 2010 mac mini upgraded to 16 gig ram and an ssd and I do have logic on it, but never get around to playing with it.

When I went wintel, one of my daw criteria was that it had both mac and pc versions.

I have lots of windows stuff that has nothing to do with music, so wintel works best for me. I did have logic back when they had a pc version.... I have a single powerful computer that I use for work and hobby. It works just find for both at this time...
Old 16th February 2021 | Show parent
  #15
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ponzi ➡️
If a person is locked into apple, logic is a very nice route. Its inexpensive, but you have to buy it anew for each version. I had a 2010 cheesegrater, and I just got to worrying about what the next step would be, and if I could get parts if it broke down... Whether my thinking was sound on that, I cant be sure. Looks like if one waited for a 32 gig of ram mac mini, they might be in good enough shape to go forward for anything except orchestral. I have a 2010 mac mini upgraded to 16 gig ram and an ssd and I do have logic on it, but never get around to playing with it.

When I went wintel, one of my daw criteria was that it had both mac and pc versions.

I have lots of windows stuff that has nothing to do with music, so wintel works best for me. I did have logic back when they had a pc version.... I have a single powerful computer that I use for work and hobby. It works just find for both at this time...
The last time I used Logic was under Windows as well...

I have a pretty serious cheese grater, 12 core 3.33ghz w 48gb of ram, that I picked up second hand for not much $ after I outgrew my quad core cheese grater. It is relatively solid but it’s at a point where I can’t really upgrade it anymore, for better or worse. I’ve never been in love with Apple to the point where I would spend pro level bucks on a system, but a modest m1 wouldn’t be out of the question if I was convinced it would be completely painless (I’m sure I have plenty of abandoned plugins that won’t get converted to native, or if they will, would need upgrades...). I’ve thought a lot about building another PC but haven’t had a need to force my hand.
Old 16th February 2021
  #16
Lives for gear
 
ponzi's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I upgraded my cheesegrater as well. There are lots of inexpensive used xeons from retired servers on ebay, and macrumours had the compatibility list, so I got mine up to a 6 core. I don't KNOW this, but I have the sense that a current 16 gig mini with m1 and logic could be enough for anything but orchestral music. My thought is that unless one is doing some pretty serious work, the vi and samples that come with logic make it an all in one solution for maybe $1,200 before tax??

I think there are m1 apple (the ones with screen and computer in one piece) cant recall the name. Those might be an option for someone going that route. But I have to believe a 32 gig of ram mini is coming out, and i just love the mini form factor--never warmed up to the all in one macs...

Thing about me is I just love building my own computers, and I have to stop myself from getting a new cpu/motherboard every year, so I am in a very different position from someone who wants to spend the mac bucks and never mess with their computer (because you can't with mac)... ') I have 32 gig of ram and never needed more than 16--but it was like $65 to get another 16. I keep thinking something with 128 gig ram capacity would be cool, but I have no real use for all that ram--its just the rush of upgrading that I crave... Goes back to when I upgraded my 8086 to a 286 and it was like 10 times faster...
Old 16th February 2021 | Show parent
  #17
Lives for gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ponzi ➡️
I upgraded my cheesegrater as well. There are lots of inexpensive used xeons from retired servers on ebay, and macrumours had the compatibility list, so I got mine up to a 6 core. I don't KNOW this, but I have the sense that a current 16 gig mini with m1 and logic could be enough for anything but orchestral music. My thought is that unless one is doing some pretty serious work, the vi and samples that come with logic make it an all in one solution for maybe $1,200 before tax??

I think there are m1 apple (the ones with screen and computer in one piece) cant recall the name. Those might be an option for someone going that route. But I have to believe a 32 gig of ram mini is coming out, and i just love the mini form factor--never warmed up to the all in one macs...

Thing about me is I just love building my own computers, and I have to stop myself from getting a new cpu/motherboard every year, so I am in a very different position from someone who wants to spend the mac bucks and never mess with their computer (because you can't with mac)... ') I have 32 gig of ram and never needed more than 16--but it was like $65 to get another 16. I keep thinking something with 128 gig ram capacity would be cool, but I have no real use for all that ram--its just the rush of upgrading that I crave... Goes back to when I upgraded my 8086 to a 286 and it was like 10 times faster...
16gb might be enough for some projects but I’d be more comfortable with 32gb since you can’t upgrade it, I keep my computers a long time and do some film work. Also not super in love with the Apple port situation, hoping newer models bring back at least a couple ports. We will see. I have to assume the current m1 systems are just a taster.
Old 16th February 2021
  #18
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
Ableton and Cubase are both good choices. I think Cubase will probably be more comfortable and easier to learn if coming from PT. I also support not giving in to the Avid extortion. You should run the demos of both Ableton and Cubase and see which one suits you better. If you recorded with a DAW for 20 years it shouldn't take more than 3 months to get up to speed on either and probably not much more than relearning the latest version of PT.
Old 17th February 2021 | Show parent
  #19
Gear Maniac
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ari-M. ➡️

If I was doing this for monetary gain, I would just pay the ransome...but I'm not, so it's way out of line IMO. I'm sure many disagree with my approach here, and that is fine. I think PT is great software and I am not opposed to it on that basis, but the writing is on the wall, and it's time to end that relationship.
I think that is a rational response.

If it hasn't been mentioned, Ableton has a new version coming out that resolves a long-time missing feature - track comping. Cubase has a lot of deep features that may take some time to discover. Also, try to actually finish a track in each. That gives you a different perspective than just laying down ideas - which is also important.

Good luck with your demos.
Old 17th February 2021
  #20
Lives for gear
 
ponzi's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
No shortage of threads here where people express dislike of avid—or waves for that matter—and all others to be fair... Just checked and halion full product is $245, crossgrade $175. It has a couple of pianos, b3, wavetable synth, and a nice mellotron. It has a huge bunch of stuff. Their gui is its worst enemy, but I believe its extremely powerful. It is vst3, so in cubase, in theory, you could have one instance open and with 64 instruments driven by 64 midi tracks—wonder how that would perform. cubase pro plus halion full version would be a one stop music factory. Halion full version can be used in other daws, but it does not have kontakts market share.

Not advocating, necessarily, just food for thought...

I do have cubase dongle. It is inside the computer case plugged into a mobo usb header so i never think about it. No problems in 3 years, but after some windows upgrades, i need to reinstall their licencer—20 minutes.

Last edited by ponzi; 17th February 2021 at 03:55 AM..
Old 17th February 2021 | Show parent
  #21
Dor
Lives for gear
 
Dor's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
As a Cubase & Live user, between the two programs, I'd say Cubase Pro is your best bet coming from Pro Tools if you are seeking a similar workflow with advanced MIDI capabilities. I use Ableton Live Suite and in my opinion, the instruments that ship with it don't really compare with what's included in stock Cubase Pro. Live's instruments were never really its selling point, it's all about the non-linear workflow in session view.

I recently bounced and exported hundreds of my Ableton and Pro Tools sessions and imported them into Cubase for additional production and mixing. I can't imagine importing multi-track audio into Ableton for mixing, but I suppose people do it. Cubase also supports Eucon so I am able to use my Avid Dock and S1 hardware with Cubase. I'd have to use HUI mode in Live which is limiting.

Also, I grabbed Steinberg's Absolute 4 bundle (full version of Groove Agent, HALion ...) and have been using Groove Agent 5 as my main drum instrument since I can use it cross-DAW.

I'm not sure my post is much help but thought I'd weigh in. Run the demos of both and see which you prefer.

Good luck,

D
Old 17th February 2021 | Show parent
  #22
Lives for gear
 
greggybud's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
I don't think the eLicenser will last a long time in the future. Cubase hasn't been pirated since Cubase 5. Personally, I dont want to subsidize freeloaders so I like the copy protection.

I'm also a fan of UAD.

But it obviously has disadvantages and I think Steinberg is aware. They are missing some potential users. The issue is to make sure a new copy protection system works like eLiscencer has in the past.
Old 17th February 2021 | Show parent
  #23
Here for the gear
 
🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by greggybud ➡️
Cubase hasn't been pirated since Cubase 5.
Not a Cubase user, but a quick search of Piratebay pulled up Cubase 7, 8, 9, and 10. Don't know if they work or not, but...

Ten years ago I upgraded my setup and after trying different DAWs ended up building a hackintosh to run Logic, in spite of my Apple hatred. Now I just run a Macbook Pro. Apple, Apogee, and Logic as a combined force were stronger than my hate. Everything works smooth and simple with no problems. Just night and day compared to the finicky computer/driver issues I dealt with on Wintel machines before.

I still totally get the Apple hatred. Screwed me over but good too back in the day. It's simple and works and let's me get on with the music instead of worrying about other stuff.
Old 17th February 2021
  #24
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
I have been trying to get into Live since v5 until v11 (I’m on the beta), it simply isn’t workable for me. I can’t imagine a user who is used to the power of editing in Pro Tools being satisfied with Live tbh. The mixer in Live is imho the worst of any DAW I’ve tried too.

My suggestion would be to go with Cubase or Studio One. I’m personally a Cubase user and think it’s the better choice between it and S1, but I think you would be satisfied with either.

Cubase may seem daunting at first but it’s actually very well designed and intuitive. You are always welcome to ask questions.
Old 17th February 2021 | Show parent
  #25
Gear Addict
 
🎧 5 years
You really have only two choices: Cubase or Studio One. Reaper is fugly nerdtastic crap and Live is for DJ wanna be "musicians." If I was starting fresh, I would probably go with Studio One (but be prepared to spend a fair sum of money on various instrument and processing plugins since the plugins that come with Studio One aren't that great). Cubase is more of an all-in-one solution. But the legacy bloat sometimes gets in the way of efficient workflow.
Old 17th February 2021
  #26
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
You should be able to use cycle markers to split your arrangement into sections: https://steinberg.help/cubase_pro_ar...markers_c.html

Be sure to add a marker track to make this easier too.

The audio editing in Cubase is incredible!
Old 17th February 2021
  #27
Gear Maniac
 
jackURbody's Avatar
 
🎧 5 years
Studio One, very easy to use and very functional.
Old 17th February 2021
  #28
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
I just came back to explain more about the cycle markers but it seems you have have figured it out.

But just in case:

1. Right click in the track list and select Add Marker Track
2. Use Ctrl+click and Alt+click to let the left and right locators to the first region you want the cycle marker in on the ruler above the arrange page
3. Click the second little icon "Add Cycle Marker" on the Markers track
4. If you then click the little "e" in the Inspector while on the Markers track, you can add a Description for the cycle marker

This should give you something like this:

Getting back on the horse...PT must go.-cubase-cycle-markers.jpg
Attached Thumbnails
Getting back on the horse...PT must go.-cubase-cycle-markers.jpg  
Old 17th February 2021 | Show parent
  #29
Lives for gear
 
ponzi's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ari-M. ➡️
I have a voucher for some NI crossgrades (Guitar Rig PRO to Komplete for $199). Do you think that is a worthwhile investment? I will be running Kontakt anyhow for SSD libraries (hooked up to the electronic drums). I would definitely prefer to stick to one large library....
Komplete for $200 usd? Hard to go wrong there. I imagine this is the 'base' komplete package. I just checked and it has some nice pianos, a fender rhodes, B3, 60s drummer and studio drummer (I like the sounds in those). I think its in the konkakt factory library where there is a stand up bass that I love for a variety of settings.

They have some ssl imitating effects, judging by their visual appearance.

I don't know how much saving money was your goal, but one approach would be to get komplete and see if the eq, compressors and delays would do the job for you. Their guitar rig has a nice convolution reverb--I don't understand why they don't expose it outside of guitar rig, but that is a nice option.

Cubase artist is $340, add Komplete for $200 and you have lots of capabilities. You can look at the cubase package comparison to see if you want pro. Pro is $590. Cubase has some VI and many gig of samples, I have not given those a fair trial since I have other things, so can't speak to those.
Old 17th February 2021 | Show parent
  #30
Dor
Lives for gear
 
Dor's Avatar
 
🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by ponzi ➡️

Cubase artist is $340, add Komplete for $200 and you have lots of capabilities. You can look at the cubase package comparison to see if you want pro. Pro is $590. Cubase has some VI and many gig of samples, I have not given those a fair trial since I have other things, so can't speak to those.
Cubase Pro 11 cross grade is $330ish.

D
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