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Yamaha n Series
Old 28th March 2010
  #3331
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Lemontree's Avatar
 

as for the new drivers...SOLID, this little N12 is making me money now. I feel able to trust it to get me through a session and what a sound it delivers. Clients are happy and thats all that matters to me.
Old 30th March 2010
  #3332
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DarbyOhara's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarbyOhara View Post
... I have the ST/OUT going thru my headphone amp and I have the CTRL/R going to my monitors (so I can turn them down while tracking). That is the way I always worked. But I hooked up my headphones to the headphones jack and it is terrible. It sounds like I am listening to my song thru a shoebox. Apparently Yamaha didn't put any innovation or effort into the headphone jacks and now I am find them useless. All I seen were great reviews of the N12, but never seen anyone comment on those jacks. Anyone else notice it?

Maybe we should compromise together and start a Yamaha support forum? The only support forums are threads in gearslutz and a few others. But you have to weed through so many posts to find anything. Let me look into this and see if I can find something that would work... I've built many different websites and forums... but I'd rather find a free one and not have to pay for hosting, etc.
Anyone else have this issue with your N12 about the headphone jack and output? Or did I get a lemon?

Also, no one is interested in trying to start some kind of public Yamaha support forum (instead of one thread)?
Old 31st March 2010
  #3333
Gear maniac
 
Lemontree's Avatar
 

[QUOTE=DarbyOhara;5256385]Anyone else have this issue with your N12 about the headphone jack and output? Or did I get a lemon?

[QUOTE]


Never had a problem with the headphone or aux phones outputs. Granted they are not the strongest for driving some phones but the signal is crystal clear.

I have my headphone amp wired from the AUX out on the back of the N12
Old 1st April 2010
  #3334
Gear nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarbyOhara View Post
Hey... I just got my new N12 yesterday.

something I nothiced that I am totally disappointed with is the headphones output. I have the ST/OUT going thru my headphone amp and I have the CTRL/R going to my monitors (so I can turn them down while tracking). That is the way I always worked. But I hooked up my headphones to the headphones jack and it is terrible. It sounds like I am listening to my song thru a shoebox. Apparently Yamaha didn't put any innovation or effort into the headphone jacks and now I am find them useless. All I seen were great reviews of the N12, but never seen anyone comment on those jacks. Anyone else notice it?

~ Ed
Hi Ed

I'll bet your problem isn't the headphone out on the N12 - you're probably overdriving its amp. In Cubase, hit F3 to call up its mixer. Check the Aux out level - it's probably clipping. Turn it down. Problem gone?
This happens to me on almost every song once I start adding tracks.

If the problem remains, try different headphones, or run the phone out into a channel to check it.

Mick
Old 3rd April 2010
  #3335
Here for the gear
 

Yeah, I don't like the headphones either

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarbyOhara View Post
...but something I nothiced that I am totally disappointed with is the headphones output. I have the ST/OUT going thru my headphone amp and I have the CTRL/R going to my monitors (so I can turn them down while tracking). That is the way I always worked. But I hooked up my headphones to the headphones jack and it is terrible. It sounds like I am listening to my song thru a shoebox. Apparently Yamaha didn't put any innovation or effort into the headphone jacks and now I am find them useless. All I seen were great reviews of the N12, but never seen anyone comment on those jacks. Anyone else notice it?
~ Ed
Yeah I've been tracking with my N12, and I love it, and it sounds great. But I agree that the headphone amps in it kind of suck. You should be able to strap on a huge pair of headphones and crank that **** up and hear clean power, but it just doesn't have the power - especially for tracking drums.

Here's how I deal with it: I have an Outlaw Audio RR2150 (basically just a stereo receiver) that gets its inputs from one of the N12 monitor outs. That RR2150 lets you turn on and off the monitor speakers I have and also lets you independently adjust the headphone level. That thing has a ton of clean power for headphones.

Basically I think you need to get either a dedicated headphone amp (I don't really know which ones are good), or some other piece of gear like the receiver I use.

But having it hooked up the way I described I can't give my drummer (isolated in the drum room listening to headphones) a different mix than the mix we hear off of the monitors by the computer/N12 because the headphones and speakers are both powered from the same source. I would have to use Aux sends for that, but then I would need a different headphone amp than the one on the RR2150. There is an Aux 1 headphone jack, but it's no better than the main headphone jack.

I wish there was a way to get inside the N12 and bolt in some serious headphone amp power
Old 5th April 2010
  #3336
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DarbyOhara's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcmacguy View Post
Hi Ed

I'll bet your problem isn't the headphone out on the N12 - you're probably overdriving its amp. In Cubase, hit F3 to call up its mixer. Check the Aux out level - it's probably clipping. Turn it down. Problem gone?
This happens to me on almost every song once I start adding tracks.

If the problem remains, try different headphones, or run the phone out into a channel to check it.

Mick
Hi Mick, No it is not the headphones. I use top-shelf AKG pro headphones for all my studio work. Until I got the N12, I never had an issue with monitoring or playback.

As I stated before, I can also send the levels from the headphone output to both headphones or a headphone amp and it is lousy. In fact, sheer poor quality. Tin cans would do better. I am not alone if you read the guy after your post. So I do not use the headphones output at all. They are garbage!

I send my main ST out to a headphone amp... that is where I do my tracking and headphone work. I send the AUX1 out to my studio monitors (so I can control the levels separately). That is how I mix. It works for me that way. But my main comment is that... I've had many different mixers in my life (Behringer, Roland, small yamahas, phonic, to name a few) and never had an issue with headphone outs until I got the N12. They are very poor! It's not a show stopper for me... but one would think they put all this nice technology into this mixer and interface, but FAILED miserably on the built in headphone amp. Otherwise, I just love this mixer for tracking, recording and mixing. I do mastering outide this N12. ~ Ed
Old 5th April 2010
  #3337
Gear Head
 

I find the headphone amps to be just fine.

Douglas
Old 5th April 2010
  #3338
Lives for gear
 
trock's Avatar
 

mine are very clear and work well but your right they do not put out alot of power before clipping

i run the st out to a headphone amp/breakout and listen off it if i want to listen to stuff louder

i am thinking strongly of just getting another n12 permanently now and not going with the R24

the n12 and cubase are just so good together
Old 6th April 2010
  #3339
Gear interested
 
ally's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemontree View Post
as for the new drivers...SOLID, this little N12 is making me money now. I feel able to trust it to get me through a session and what a sound it delivers. Clients are happy and thats all that matters to me.
Same with me here !....rock solid...
Old 8th April 2010
  #3340
Gear nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarbyOhara View Post
Hi Mick, No it is not the headphones. I use top-shelf AKG pro headphones for all my studio work. Until I got the N12, I never had an issue with monitoring or playback.

As I stated before, I can also send the levels from the headphone output to both headphones or a headphone amp and it is lousy. In fact, sheer poor quality. Tin cans would do better. I am not alone if you read the guy after your post. So I do not use the headphones output at all. They are garbage!

I send my main ST out to a headphone amp... that is where I do my tracking and headphone work. I send the AUX1 out to my studio monitors (so I can control the levels separately). That is how I mix. It works for me that way. But my main comment is that... I've had many different mixers in my life (Behringer, Roland, small yamahas, phonic, to name a few) and never had an issue with headphone outs until I got the N12. They are very poor! It's not a show stopper for me... but one would think they put all this nice technology into this mixer and interface, but FAILED miserably on the built in headphone amp. Otherwise, I just love this mixer for tracking, recording and mixing. I do mastering outide this N12. ~ Ed
You don't even mention if you've looked at the Cubase levels going to the Aux and to the headphones. I use AKG cans too, as well as Sony and Yamaha. All work fine, the headphone out sounds great, and I've never had a problem with not enough volume with it on the N12. I highly doubt that there is a problem with the N12, but if you think so why not get it checked out by the dealer (or a good audio tech if it's out of warranty)?
Old 8th April 2010
  #3341
Gear nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tremoverb View Post
Yeah I've been tracking with my N12, and I love it, and it sounds great. But I agree that the headphone amps in it kind of suck. You should be able to strap on a huge pair of headphones and crank that **** up and hear clean power, but it just doesn't have the power - especially for tracking drums.

I wish there was a way to get inside the N12 and bolt in some serious headphone amp power
You're tracking the drums in the same room as the N12?!
Good luck with that technique.
If not, you're doing something else wrong.
Old 9th April 2010
  #3342
Here for the gear
 

Yamaha N12 - question on hardware mix with external compressor

I've been enjoying this thread over the last couple of months while the boss isn't looking over my shoulder I'm still only up to page 32 though...

I just brought a Presonus ACP-88 compressor to use with my N-12. The compression on the N12 isn't bad but I just wanted to have a bit more control.

I'm pretty new to compressors (and mixers in general) but wanted to know if it's possible to use the compressor when doing a hardware mix? I noticed it's compressing when I first record into Cubase but I can't see / hear any difference when turning on the compression for a hardware mix.

Thanks
Old 13th April 2010
  #3343
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Blackbelt Jones's Avatar
 

I run Cubase 5.x on a Win 7 DAW - while I have some outboard synths, my music mostly consists of soft synths and I tend to stay in the box for nearly all of my mixing. I am aware that the n12/n8 is not a control surface (outside of a few basic transport controls).

I would like to get my VST soft synths "out of the box" to give their sound a bit of character and this seems like a piece of gear that might do the trick. During mix down, would I be able to rout a track from Cubase in the n12 to either apply the board's EQ/Compressor/Reverb/Level settings and then rout it back in to Cubase?

Thanks in advance for the help!
Old 13th April 2010
  #3344
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DarbyOhara's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcmacguy View Post
You don't even mention if you've looked at the Cubase levels going to the Aux and to the headphones. I use AKG cans too, as well as Sony and Yamaha. All work fine, the headphone out sounds great, and I've never had a problem with not enough volume with it on the N12. I highly doubt that there is a problem with the N12, but if you think so why not get it checked out by the dealer (or a good audio tech if it's out of warranty)?
I don't use Cubase. Although I don't get all the controller features, but that is the way I operate. I despise Steinberg and anything they produce. To me, Yamaha went down hill after they purchased/merged Steinberg. Again, my opinion.

But regardless what I use, I can see AND HEAR the levels coming out of the ST/OUT, AUX and the mixer headphone jacks. I didn't say or mean levels, I said the quality of the sonics coming out of the mixer headphone amp is very poor. In fact, I rate it next to tin cans.

I don't think anything is wrong with my mixer. And it is under warranty and is brand new. I just believe Yamaha didn't place quality headphone amps in the mixer. It is not a show stopper for me since I use a headphone amp coming out of the ST/OUT. And I been doing tracking, recording and engineering since the mid 70's... I am no newbie.

If you think there is quality of the sonics coming out of the N12 headphone jacks... all I can say is:

I am done with this subject...
Old 13th April 2010
  #3345
Lives for gear
 
DarbyOhara's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcmacguy View Post
You're tracking the drums in the same room as the N12?!
Good luck with that technique.
If not, you're doing something else wrong.
Dude! do you have anything nice or productive to post? The guy said absolutely nothing about tracking drums in the same room. And what is wrong with doing that? He can use the mixer as a drum stool, if it works for him.

And he was commenting to MY post about the mixer headphone output being poor. Although you seem to be the only one that don't have an issue with that...
Old 13th April 2010
  #3346
Lives for gear
 
DarbyOhara's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by makenaiboy View Post
I've been enjoying this thread over the last couple of months while the boss isn't looking over my shoulder I'm still only up to page 32 though...

I just brought a Presonus ACP-88 compressor to use with my N-12. The compression on the N12 isn't bad but I just wanted to have a bit more control.

I'm pretty new to compressors (and mixers in general) but wanted to know if it's possible to use the compressor when doing a hardware mix? I noticed it's compressing when I first record into Cubase but I can't see / hear any difference when turning on the compression for a hardware mix.

Thanks

Hi. I am not an expert of the N12 since I just got mine and I am in the learning stages myself. And I don't use Cubase either. But I would like to know what you mean by "hardware mix"? Are you referring to the live output from say the ST/OUT while in record mode? Not sure I follow you on that.

However, I think the N12's preamps and compression is about one of the best I ever heard in a small recording unit. I had a few Roland VS that came close, but to me, this mixer is top shelf. And most firewire interfaces that I have owned never came close. And I mean, what you hear tracking is what is recorded. After that, just add your plugins (I use the UAD-2) and bring down the levels to the mix....
Old 13th April 2010
  #3347
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Blackbelt Jones's Avatar
 

([EDIT] - I just realized I have a similar "Hardware Mix" question to the one above, but mine also applies to the leves, EQs etc. I would really love to be able to apply this board's compression/reverb/EQ to my ITB softsynths.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackbelt Jones View Post
I run Cubase 5.x on a Win 7 DAW - while I have some outboard synths, my music mostly consists of soft synths and I tend to stay in the box for nearly all of my mixing. I am aware that the n12/n8 is not a control surface (outside of a few basic transport controls).

I would like to get my VST soft synths "out of the box" to give their sound a bit of character and this seems like a piece of gear that might do the trick. During mix down, would I be able to rout a track from Cubase in the n12 to either apply the board's EQ/Compressor/Reverb/Level settings and then rout it back in to Cubase?



I found this on the Yammy website, but I want to make sure I am understanding what "Hardware Mix" mode is all about. Say I was using Native Instrument's Mashine (a VST soft synth) in Cubase 5 and it was routed to tracks 1-12 on my internal Cubase mixer...

1) If I enter "Hardware Mix" mode, does that automaticaly rout all of the tracks OUT of Cubase and IN to the n12 so I can apply the n12's compression and reverb, set the EQ, and adjust the levels, and then back OUT to Cubase?
2) Do I then simply export this mixdown as a WAV to capture the adjustments I made via the n12?
3) Obviously this is a 12 channel mixer... I assume I would have to re-assign the audio for anything past track 12 if I wanted to rout it through the n12?

Thanks!
Old 13th April 2010
  #3348
Gear maniac
 

black belt, you can either set up sends to the mixer inputs etc, n12 1, n12 2.......

or you can select the output of the actual track to the mixer itself so you cannot hear in daw, but can hear in hardware mode.

make your tweaks, then set up your input channels in cubase and record back into cuabse, so your recording your hardware mix back into cubase, that could be individual channels or the whole group depending on what your recording.

you can even track the reverb to its own channel.
Old 13th April 2010
  #3349
Gear interested
 

For Pro lLogic 8...

Hi guys,


after i read pratically all this thread, i didn't find an answer. =(


Do the Yamaha N8 mixer works well with pro logic 8? Can i mix music deeply with it? Or should i buy an other mixer for pro logic 8? I don't have Cubase...


This mixer looks very cool, but i don't want it very limited because i use Logic 8...


Thank you very much!
Old 14th April 2010
  #3350
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Blackbelt Jones's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiseg View Post
black belt, you can either set up sends to the mixer inputs etc, n12 1, n12 2.......

or you can select the output of the actual track to the mixer itself so you cannot hear in daw, but can hear in hardware mode.

make your tweaks, then set up your input channels in cubase and record back into cuabse, so your recording your hardware mix back into cubase, that could be individual channels or the whole group depending on what your recording.

you can even track the reverb to its own channel.
Thanks Wiseg! Just so I am 100% clear - as I would essentially be outputting the softsynths through the N12 and recording them back in to Cubase, this must mean I can also apply the n12's compressor (in additon to the reverb, which you mentioned), correct?

Do others use the N12 this way with their ITB softsynths? If so, have you heard an improvement in either your mix or the individual sounds of the softsynths?

Many thanks!
Old 14th April 2010
  #3351
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarbyOhara View Post
Hi. I am not an expert of the N12 since I just got mine and I am in the learning stages myself. And I don't use Cubase either. But I would like to know what you mean by "hardware mix"? Are you referring to the live output from say the ST/OUT while in record mode? Not sure I follow you on that.
Hi, thanks for your reply. By hardware mix I mean: from page 37 of the manual

"In this Work mode, the output signal from each Cubase
audio track is individually input to each n8/n12 input
channel, then mixed and processed via the compressor
or equalizer.
When this mode is selected, signals from the DAW
(DAW inputs) will be sent to all the input channels, and
the DAW LED in the INPUT SELECT switch area will light
up"

I've recorded my tracks without any reverb / compression and want to then send the tracks back to the Yamaha N12 (which is the beauty of the N12 - tracks can be mixed after recorded out of the box) but use an external compressor rather than in the in-built one.

Thanks
Old 14th April 2010
  #3352
Gear interested
 

Hi guys,


after i read pratically all this thread, i didn't find an answer. =(


Do the Yamaha N8 mixer works well with pro logic 8? Can i mix music deeply with it? Or should i buy an other mixer for pro logic 8? I don't have Cubase...


This mixer looks very cool, but i don't want it very limited because i use Logic 8...


Thank you very much!
Old 17th April 2010
  #3353
Lives for gear
 
DarbyOhara's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bio Hearth View Post
Hi guys,


after i read pratically all this thread, i didn't find an answer. =(


Do the Yamaha N8 mixer works well with pro logic 8? Can i mix music deeply with it? Or should i buy an other mixer for pro logic 8? I don't have Cubase...


This mixer looks very cool, but i don't want it very limited because i use Logic 8...


Thank you very much!
Hi Bio... I am unfamiliar with Pro Logic, so I can't answer that. But the mixer come with a special version of Cubase 4 AI. So you don't have to purchase Cubase unless you want the expensive full version. I personally don't use Cubase AI for anything anyway. I do not like the company and support. I use Reaper for all my tracking and mixing... and I master outside the mixer. But I must say after many years of garage band type recordings... this has got to be the best thing since peanut butter that is affordable for the amatuer and pro garage band type recordings. Not sure what you would call it... but I call it that. If you can get the chance... check out the N12 before buying. It is the first recording device I ever had that... when you track, your playback is what you recorded. Meaning these mic pre's are some of the best I heard and used. Many other firewire devices I have had... I would track, then have to edit the media file to get the sonics. Not with this! After I track, I just apply the plugins and believe it or not, turn it down... cause it is awesome! And I use the UAD-2 plugins. They are a must!
Old 20th April 2010
  #3354
Gear interested
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bio Hearth View Post
Hi guys,


after i read pratically all this thread, i didn't find an answer. =(


Do the Yamaha N8 mixer works well with pro logic 8? Can i mix music deeply with it? Or should i buy an other mixer for pro logic 8? I don't have Cubase...


This mixer looks very cool, but i don't want it very limited because i use Logic 8...


Thank you very much!
Bear in mind this is not just a mixer it is a sound card and midi interface. I do use cubase and the integration is great. I personally like that you get the the full functions of the desk with cubase but it does not stop it being used with another DAW.

This is not a control surface though. The faders do not control the DAW and are not motorised. Even though digital it is like an analogue mixer. I think this is where most people get mistaken
Old 20th April 2010
  #3355
Gear nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarbyOhara View Post
Dude! do you have anything nice or productive to post? The guy said absolutely nothing about tracking drums in the same room. And what is wrong with doing that? He can use the mixer as a drum stool, if it works for him.

And he was commenting to MY post about the mixer headphone output being poor. Although you seem to be the only one that don't have an issue with that...
i already responded with productive info on this guy's problem, if you'd bother to look back further. And if you think there's nothing wrong with trying to track drums in the same room with a loud set of drums, well, good luck to you too. Note that no pro studio in the world records that way.

As for the alleged headphone "problem" - the vast majority of us N8 and N12 have zero problems with the phone outputs, which means either you have a defective unit (unlikely) or you are doing something wrong.

Sorry if that isn't "nice", but if you can't handle the truth that's your problem.

Have a nice day

Old 20th April 2010
  #3356
Gear nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by trock View Post
been using oh about 3 years now on PC and MAC, never had a hitch.

great piece of kit, much better than the RME FF 800 i had in terms of sound and amount of stuff you get, drivers for me just as solid.

i am however now looking at the new R24 from A&H. THIS is what Yamaha should have brought us as the next step after the n12. i keep hoping for something like that

anyway, i do feel bad for those having issues but with the TI FW cards i have had in PC's and mac etc i just never had any troubles with the n12

and the one time it got flaky i did the cold reboot and it was fine
Hey Trock

I'd be wary of AHB products - the quality isn't up there with Yamaha's. I worked with one for years and when it worked it was great (kind of like Brit sports cars!). Loved the EQ. BUT... it had many problems since Day One, some never completely resolved. I certainly haven't missed it since getting the N12!

cheers,

Mick
Old 20th April 2010
  #3357
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcmacguy View Post
trying to track drums in the same room with a loud set of drums
Just by curiosity, what is really the big issue with this?
Old 21st April 2010
  #3358
Gear nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kire View Post
Just by curiosity, what is really the big issue with this?
You can't get a good drum sound if the mixer isn't isolated from the drums!

Well, you could get lucky, but it seems unlikely.

All kinds of noises surface when you start soloing drums and listening closely: squeak, rattles, bad tuning, wierd stuff... you'll never hear all that if the drums are in the same room, they're just too damn loud.

I guess if you have absolutely no choice you could do it, but it will probably sound like crap - and will be hard to hear with headphones, esp, if you don't know what yer doing ( )
Old 22nd April 2010
  #3359
Lives for gear
 
DarbyOhara's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcmacguy View Post
i already responded with productive info on this guy's problem, if you'd bother to look back further. And if you think there's nothing wrong with trying to track drums in the same room with a loud set of drums, well, good luck to you too. Note that no pro studio in the world records that way.

As for the alleged headphone "problem" - the vast majority of us N8 and N12 have zero problems with the phone outputs, which means either you have a defective unit (unlikely) or you are doing something wrong.

Sorry if that isn't "nice", but if you can't handle the truth that's your problem.

Have a nice day

Well, first I am not here to argue or debate you on things. But since you are being persistant, I'll bite!

I am not going to weed back thru posts to see if you were informative to anyone... all I know is what you responded to my post. Then what you responded to the guy right after mine about tracking drums in the same room. It appears some folks are comfortable with the way the headphone amps operate in the N12. I don't and a few others agree. They suck! Am I doing something wrong? I know how to stick a f**king 1/4" phone plug into the mixer headphone jack! But most importantly, I know how to listen and compare. Or better said, I know what I don't hear. I've heard cheap stereos sound better. Once again, I am done with this issue. If you like the way they work in the N12... good for you!

And now I see a few more of your posts about tracking drums in the same room. What works for some people don't always work for others. I don't have a multi-room studio and have tracked acoustic drums in the same room as the complete setup. I've read and seen some of the best of them do it, nothing wrong with it. Compression and proper mic placement will do anyone some good!

But don't talk down to people in your posts... it shows signs of being an as s! I see you must be a Mac user too. I suppose you know that a Mac is better than a PC too! rotf...
Old 24th April 2010
  #3360
Lives for gear
 

So does the hardware mix sound different/better than ITB? I mean when just using firewire and not summing analog style.
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