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Ableton bypassing delay compensation when exporting super high latency VSTs...
Old 2 weeks ago
  #1
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Ableton bypassing delay compensation when exporting super high latency VSTs...

Hello all,
I'm using ableton for mixing and mastering (yeah I know, sue me...)

I've just done a master using DMG's Equilibrium for the first time - amazing plugin!
Only problem is that it induces a truly incredible amount of latency - 743ms to be exact, and ableton seems to want to ignore this when exporting. Perhaps there's a limit to how much delay compensation ableton will account for??

So in other words, if I export from the start of a track, ableton will cut 743ms off the start in the exported wav file. I'm working around this by adding 743ms of silence at the start of the export region but that's a pain.

Anyone experienced anything similar? Can find zero information online about it.

Cheers,
Michael
Old 2 weeks ago
  #2
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biksonije's Avatar
 

Is Ableton giving you clicks and pops and sh**t when you export? Huge CPU taxation tools can indeed give you a headache. Try recording your music in real time on another track. Depending on Audio Prefs that will be your result (res./depth). Ableton is polished and good DAW and you should not have problems. Are you working with stereo audio signal or bunch of tracks, unfreezed, midi and audio with bunch of plugins on each track? Makes whole world of difference!

BTW, having "blank" in the beginning is always a good practice. Always leave bar or two in the beginning. Always!
Old 2 weeks ago
  #3
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Nope, no clicks and pops - got a super fast computer...
So not an issue of the comp not being able to handle the processing, more an issue of the plugin incurring so much latency (more than double what I can remember seeing on any other plug) that ableton seems to ignore it when calculating the delay compensation on export.
Seems like a fairly unusual problem - literally nothing written about it online or in manuals as far as I can find.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #4
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dirtROBOT's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjelinekperth View Post
Nope, no clicks and pops - got a super fast computer...
So not an issue of the comp not being able to handle the processing, more an issue of the plugin incurring so much latency (more than double what I can remember seeing on any other plug) that ableton seems to ignore it when calculating the delay compensation on export.
Seems like a fairly unusual problem - literally nothing written about it online or in manuals as far as I can find.
Yeah sadly if the export is either crashing or ignoring latency like you're saying then the only real solution is a realtime record to an audio track. What's cool about ableton is that even if it crackles and glitches while recording, the recording itself is fine.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dirtROBOT View Post
Yeah sadly if the export is either crashing or ignoring latency like you're saying then the only real solution is a realtime record to an audio track. What's cool about ableton is that even if it crackles and glitches while recording, the recording itself is fine.
Yeah, I guess that'd be the best workaround actually.
I kinda just want to know why it's happening though, in 10-15 years of mixing with ableton it's never happened before...

Ableton is delay compensating for every other plugin, as it always does, but ignoring that one. I'm thinking the delay compensation may be designed to only work up until a plugin has a certain amount of latency. I'd like to find out what that number is. But wondering why this wouldn't be mentioned in any documentation anywhere.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #6
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dirtROBOT's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjelinekperth View Post
Yeah, I guess that'd be the best workaround actually.
I kinda just want to know why it's happening though, in 10-15 years of mixing with ableton it's never happened before...

Ableton is delay compensating for every other plugin, as it always does, but ignoring that one. I'm thinking the delay compensation may be designed to only work up until a plugin has a certain amount of latency. I'd like to find out what that number is. But wondering why this wouldn't be mentioned in any documentation anywhere.
what's the plugin out of curiosity?
Old 2 weeks ago
  #7
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biksonije's Avatar
 

Hmmm, so you are saying you've got very good and fast, strong machine. I didn't catch whether your project is packed full of many different plugins. I'll suppose, for the argument sake, that it isn't. At least no more or no less than what you usually use. So, ughh, you checked your prefs? Checked system prefs (both Win or Mac) and drivers? I'll suppose so. Well, how about you try some other plugins that can measure up to DMG. It's like some final step when you want to finish your project, right? What else in that category you own if I may ask? TDR Kotelnikov? SPL Iron? SHC Class A? Unisum? Vertigo? Sonnox? DSM v3 (or 2)? One of those are good parallel? It would be great trying swapping just that one which is your finalizing tool. Ableton, especially 10 (and all above 9.7.x) are super polished and super stable. Do write back. This swapping tool could possibly mean all the difference you know. Just for elimination purposes.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjelinekperth View Post
Hello all,
I'm using ableton for mixing and mastering (yeah I know, sue me...)

I've just done a master using DMG's Equilibrium for the first time - amazing plugin!
Only problem is that it induces a truly incredible amount of latency - 743ms to be exact, and ableton seems to want to ignore this when exporting. Perhaps there's a limit to how much delay compensation ableton will account for??

So in other words, if I export from the start of a track, ableton will cut 743ms off the start in the exported wav file. I'm working around this by adding 743ms of silence at the start of the export region but that's a pain.

Anyone experienced anything similar? Can find zero information online about it.

Cheers,
Michael
Man, ableton is an outright latency turd sometimes. I can't stand it. So many latency problems compared to Logic, Bitwig or Cubase. Im on a mac and its always been a problem in ableton for me. Ive found no solutions to fix it.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #9
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hey,

i think the same that ableton and cubase ignore super high "out of normal range" vst latenzy.

i use cubase 8.5 and a friend use ableton 10.

we used and test the new ozone 9 on a single track (in the mix) and the groove from this track was totaly distroyed/diverge....

when i clear/pull it out from the insert of the track the problems was always there. i had to close and open the project again and then it was everything normal....

i never though that i can have timing issues ITB....

sorry for my bad skool english.....german here.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #10
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MusiKLover's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by dirtROBOT View Post
Yeah sadly if the export is either crashing or ignoring latency like you're saying then the only real solution is a realtime record to an audio track. What's cool about ableton is that even if it crackles and glitches while recording, the recording itself is fine.
I am a Live user, and I would not necessarily call that ‘cool.’

On another note, it would appear that most Audio/MIDI workstations (except Reaper, of course) have their respective issues with Latency and the 2-Bus. With Logic, it helps if you route all Tracks to a Virtual 2-Bus, then to Stereo Out, and perhaps that could work with Cubase given they are both probably the most similar given their history. For Live, PDC used to be an issue, but I did think it was an afterthought after Live 9.5 (or maybe it was 9.2; my memory going that far back is iffy.) I’m surprised it is rearing it’s head today, though I realize latency and PDC do not have to necessarily be the same thing, though they often are. Perhaps try some creative busing such that one processor (the classic Single Core) is not doing all of the processing? Place the DMG model on the AUX track, or in Live’s case just another track?
Old 1 week ago
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dirtROBOT View Post
what's the plugin out of curiosity?
The plugin is DMG's EQuilibrium.

Just tried a couple of things suggested here such as recording the audio to another track, putting the plugin on an aux track, deleting all other plugins. Nothing seems to help the issue.

Have never had the issue with the countless other plugins I've used over 15 years, but then again I've never seen an individual plugin latency as high as 743ms. Makes me think that there must be some upper limit to ableton's delay compensation for a single plugin.

For now, I'll have to stick with my initial idea of starting the export 743ms earlier!
Old 1 week ago
  #12
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Hmmm, OK, I seem to have fixed the problem but I'm not quite sure why...
If I change the processing mode to 'FIR Linear' the latency issue goes away. I can then change it to IIR or any other mode and the latency problem is fixed.
Perhaps somebody can hazard a guess as to why that would fix it?!
Old 1 week ago
  #13
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Dave Gamble of DMG seems to handle support requests quite well. Maybe send him an email?
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