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Softube Weiss plugins extreme latency???
Old 5th August 2020
  #1
Softube Weiss plugins extreme latency???

I am wondering if this is somehow my user error or if anyone else is experiencing this as well. As soon as I insert any Softube Weiss plugin in Ableton 10 the latency compensation needed is so high that there is a probably 300 ms delay between hitting start and audio playing. The screen is out of sync with audio. This on a PC using 64 bit VST3 versions of the plugin. The gambit channel with the drive (limiter) engaged and the DS-1 and EQ 1 all show this behaviour making these plugins only useful for mastering? How is your experience using these plugins for production (vsti) and low latency situations?
Old 5th August 2020
  #2
Here for the gear
 

I've had the same problem with the Weiss EQ1 plugin. When you insert the plugin, the latency is always wrong at the beginning. It's due to the wrong calculation of latency in Ableton. Seems like a compatibility bug.
For now, it is possible to fix with changing EQ mode to LP and back. So when I Insert the plugin, I push the LP button and then go back to DYN mode. This way Ableton calculates the right latency.
Old 5th August 2020
  #3
Gear Maniac
Hi Prahlad, no, it's not user error, it's just a limitation of the code. A significant part of why the Weiss gear sounds so good and is so flexible is that they use extremely high quality linear phase filtering, and the only way to do really high quality linear phase filtering requires a ton of latency.

There are two main algorithmic approaches to linear phase filtering (forward-backward infinite impulse response filtering, as with the Weiss products and MAAT/Algorithmix PEQ Orange/thEQorange), and finite impulse response filtering, such as employed in DMG EQuilibrium... but to really sound amazing both incur latency counts that seem preposterous next to virtually any other plugin (many plugins like Pro-Q and Ozone have linear phase filtering modes using the same approaches with shorter latency times, but this is closely related to why neither of those plugins sound anything like the EQ1). There are no uses for the DS1 or EQ1 in low latency scenarios because neither product supports low latency functionality.

There is one partial exception to this, which is the (excellent) "Weiss Deess" plugin Softube developed using the DS1 algorithms; in the pull-out menu there is a low-latency option. This option disables some of the filtering modes available, limiting the functionality of the plugin, but if you absolutely need the Weiss de-essing sound in a low latency scenario it is at least an option.

Personally I use the DS1 and Deess plugin very often on two-mix and also frequently in the mix in Pro Tools for de-essing vocals, guitars, and cymbals, and then committing the results and continuing with the rest of the mix. A similar workflow in Ableton could be achieved by 1) inserting the plugin 2) configuring it 3) Bouncing the individual track in question 4) dragging the track with the Weiss insert into a "Pre-Commits" folder in the browser for easy access to a backup of before the Weiss plugin was inserted. (Step 4 is necessary because in Ableton frozen tracks still contribute to overall session latency, so in order to defeat the latency you must remove the latency-inducing track from the session, which is what necessitates the Pre-Commits backup folder)

It is my faint hope that Softube might someday develop a "mixing" compressor and equalizer based on or inspired by the Weiss code but zero- or low-latency and suitable for regular use in the mix and during production, but there is no reason to expect that it will ever happen... but a man can dream!

Hope this helps.
Old 6th August 2020
  #4
Really thanks a lot, that is very helpful! Really like the sound of mixing into the DS-1 but will have to change my approach. Will try the LP switch trick, much appreciated!!
Old 7th August 2020
  #5
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prahlad View Post
Really thanks a lot, that is very helpful! Really like the sound of mixing into the DS-1 but will have to change my approach. Will try the LP switch trick, much appreciated!!
Yes, the DS1 as a master bus compressor is really lovely. Alas for that unavoidable latency!

Now that I think about it there are a few alternative plugins that scratch much the same itch as the DS1 as a bus comp:

First is DMG Essence, which is shall we say heavily inspired by the DS1; it’s got the configurable dual release, the band pass filtering, the super clean sound, but it also has some sort of low or zero latency mode. It’s arguably a better de-esser than the DS1, but the DS1 has some ineffable box tone that is nice and Essence has no such fairy dust. Essence is ~$130.

Second is TDR Kotelnikov, which is sort of a DS1 without the filtering. I don’t care for it myself, but it’s very clean and has many interesting features. I think it’s $40.

Finally and most recently Tone Projects Unisum is for me an even better bus compressor than the DS1. It’s its own thing, there is no describing it, so head over to the product thread for it if you are interested. It’s brilliant. It’s $200 although I think it’s on sale until this Monday for $150.
Old 7th August 2020
  #6
HSi
Lives for gear
 
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As already said, it's 100% just how they are.
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