The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
Is my build too slow for 32 or 64 sample buffers
Old 22nd June 2020
  #1
Here for the gear
 

Is my build too slow for 32 or 64 sample buffers

I built this machine mostly for cad and audio during quarantine but was surprised when I had everything setup that I was unable to run ableton sessions with software synths at 64 sample buffers (@44.1khz) without encountering cpu overrun crackles. I would have thought that this build would be total overkill for audio, what am I missing? I'm considering adding a amd gpu and going hackingtosh to try and see if it makes a difference (RT Longest Block variability), any suggestions?

Goal:
Lowest possible roundtrip latency while running 3-5 channels of various Software Instruments. I am running 2 external FX sends in a live setup so roundtrip latency is important for a couple reasons including reducing phase issues
Ideally I would run at 64 samples and 96khz which on the apollo 8p gives me a round trip latency of 2.5 ms, sadly omnisphere and lots of kontakt libraries are sampled at max 48 so I'm shooting for 48 @ 64 or 32 if possible.

Issue:
Crackles when playing lots of voices (quickly hitting 6 notes twice will cause a crackle almost every time with even just one instance of omnisphere and no other channels in session) Sometimes even crackles at 128 samples.

Attempted:
I have followed both the ableton and sweetwater windows 10 optimization guides
Initially I thought the OC and or turboboost feature could be causing issues with the audio driver by running cores with different clocks so tried disabling turboboost, OC, XMP, and different combinations of the above but still crackles.
Have tried unplugging everything but interface, plugging in just the apollo 8p on the different usb c slots and different thunderbolt adapters.
Playing omnisphere synth waveforms instead of sample patches makes no difference which I would think rules out any bottlenecks with the SSD's and therefore its a CPU issue. Have Diva so will confirm.
Wifi and all other programs are closed and nonessential services are stopped (Even No AV).

I want to be able to run the following VI's:
- 1x omnisphere (8 voice)
- 3x kontakt (6 voice)
- 1x arcade (4 voice)

Computer Specs:
- i9 9940x OC running 4.2 on all cores (boost off)
- (OS Drive) Optane 905p
- (Steam/Samples Drive) 970 Pro M2
- Asus Prime 299x deluxe II
- RTX2080ti
- CORSAIR 64GB 3600 XMP profile enabled
Audio Interface:
- ASUS usb C rear +> startech adapter +> Apollo 8p +> apollo twin via thunderbolt cascade

Connected USB Devices:
- Nord Stage 3
- Moog One
- Pioneer Toriaz sp16
- Vestax vcm 600
- Tbox 2x2 Midi I/O
- Analog Heat
- Ableton Push
Software:
- Ableton 10.14
- Windows 10 fully updated
- UAD 9.12.1
Old 25th June 2020
  #2
HSi
Lives for gear
 
HSi's Avatar
 

You seem to have a few misunderstandings.

1. Because omnisphere is max 48khz that doesn't mean you shouldn't use 96k or even higher.
2. Your latency at 256 would be 10ms, why do you feel this isn't quick enough?
Old 25th June 2020
  #3
jrp
Lives for gear
 
jrp's Avatar
96khz is worth it, in terms of latency and sound quality, especial with some virtual synths!

10ms, at least for me, is not great.
It´s only around 3 meters in terms of how fast sound travels, but add some time for additional processing in the daw and the time for the sound to travel from the speakers to you. I wouldn´t play bass 10 meters from my amp...
I especially wouldn´t practice 10 meters from my amp and i don´t like my students to do so - it´s counter productive for developing a strong independent time.
If one doesn´t practice and usually quantices everything (not at all suggesting that you do!) than 10 - 30ms can work.

But back on toppic, you should run a tool called latency monitor.
It will tell you any driver or process that´s distroying your real time performance.

I had to learn the hard way like you that overall system-performance and cpu power do not translate directly into realtime performance.
Should have gotten a radeon card...

I see big spikes coming from the nvidea driver.

Went from

i7-2600k - 8gb - GTX1060 - OSX High Sierra / Win10
to
Ryzen3700x - 32gb - RTX2070 - Win10

both with MOTU PCIe424 + 24io (very fast by the way)

Not that much gain in terms of latency, but it does render and do everything else much faster.

I tried running the generic video driver that windows brings, but it´s unusable. Ableton Gui is producing clicks like hell.

What does help is turning off LAN driver and disabling all Firewall and Virus scanning.

Made a script to do all that, and another to turn everything back on.

Last edited by jrp; 25th June 2020 at 11:27 PM..
Old 25th June 2020
  #4
jrp
Lives for gear
 
jrp's Avatar
Regarding hackintosh:

Test it, would like to hear your results.

I did do a test where i compared latency. I found that Windows is significantly faster than OSX.

Win at 64 samples = OSX at 32

On gearslutz i learned that ASIO is taking fewer function calls compared to core audio.
Core Audio is part of the OS (and for that it´s quite excellent).
ASIO is a low level API that gives the DAW even more direct controll over the soundcard

ASIO vs Core Audio Latency measured at 32, 64, 128 buffer. Asio much faster

I did not test how many voices i can play at a given latency, rather than buffer setting.

Maybe Win10 at 64 samples and OSX at 32 samples have not only the same latency but also the same performance.
I´m really sorry i did not test this!!!

BTW i really like the way core audio works when sharing a sound device between applications.
Also preview an audio-file in finder by hitting space.

Last edited by jrp; 25th June 2020 at 11:33 PM..
Old 25th June 2020
  #5
Lives for gear
 

Latency isn’t primarily dependent on system “speed” but, rather, how each component impacts the whole. A 5 year old system can easily have lower latency than a top of the line current one.

If you have Nvidia, find the msiutil (not MSI the brand) to enable it after every driver update. That helped my system. Didn’t find a need to switch brands to amd. Wireless cards and Bluetooth stuff can also interfere. Start with the basics, the add the middle stuff like the above, the you have to start pulling all things out, testing, add one thing, test, etc to iD the culprit(s).
Old 26th June 2020
  #6
Gear Head
 

OP

I was having issues with low latency as well until I started playing around with processor affinity settings. FOR ME, in Pro Tools with a MOTU 1248, I can run multiple soft synths (Omni, Kontakt, Massive, etc) and light processing at 64 sample buffer latency (no pops or clicks for 3 hours) - BUT only if I adjust the Processor Affinity to FFE on my 8700K system. I do not know why (thread contention on one of the cores ?), but on my current and past systems this has been required in PT. I always run at 24/96. If things get real heavy, I might drop to 128 samples, but that's almost equivalent to 256 samples at 48KHz.

Here is more info from an older thread I submitted at the duc: http://duc.avid.com/showthread.php?t=383052

YMMV. Hope this helps.
Old 26th June 2020
  #7
Lives for gear
 
chrischoir's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by istoked View Post
I built this machine mostly for cad and audio during quarantine but was surprised when I had everything setup that I was unable to run ableton sessions with software synths at 64 sample buffers (@44.1khz) without encountering cpu overrun crackles. I would have thought that this build would be total overkill for audio, what am I missing? I'm considering adding a amd gpu and going hackingtosh to try and see if it makes a difference (RT Longest Block variability), any suggestions?

Goal:
Lowest possible roundtrip latency while running 3-5 channels of various Software Instruments. I am running 2 external FX sends in a live setup so roundtrip latency is important for a couple reasons including reducing phase issues
Ideally I would run at 64 samples and 96khz which on the apollo 8p gives me a round trip latency of 2.5 ms, sadly omnisphere and lots of kontakt libraries are sampled at max 48 so I'm shooting for 48 @ 64 or 32 if possible.

Issue:
Crackles when playing lots of voices (quickly hitting 6 notes twice will cause a crackle almost every time with even just one instance of omnisphere and no other channels in session) Sometimes even crackles at 128 samples.

Attempted:
I have followed both the ableton and sweetwater windows 10 optimization guides
Initially I thought the OC and or turboboost feature could be causing issues with the audio driver by running cores with different clocks so tried disabling turboboost, OC, XMP, and different combinations of the above but still crackles.
Have tried unplugging everything but interface, plugging in just the apollo 8p on the different usb c slots and different thunderbolt adapters.
Playing omnisphere synth waveforms instead of sample patches makes no difference which I would think rules out any bottlenecks with the SSD's and therefore its a CPU issue. Have Diva so will confirm.
Wifi and all other programs are closed and nonessential services are stopped (Even No AV).

I want to be able to run the following VI's:
- 1x omnisphere (8 voice)
- 3x kontakt (6 voice)
- 1x arcade (4 voice)

Computer Specs:
- i9 9940x OC running 4.2 on all cores (boost off)
- (OS Drive) Optane 905p
- (Steam/Samples Drive) 970 Pro M2
- Asus Prime 299x deluxe II
- RTX2080ti
- CORSAIR 64GB 3600 XMP profile enabled
Audio Interface:
- ASUS usb C rear +> startech adapter +> Apollo 8p +> apollo twin via thunderbolt cascade

Connected USB Devices:
- Nord Stage 3
- Moog One
- Pioneer Toriaz sp16
- Vestax vcm 600
- Tbox 2x2 Midi I/O
- Analog Heat
- Ableton Push
Software:
- Ableton 10.14
- Windows 10 fully updated
- UAD 9.12.1

It all depends on your soundcard. For instance an i5 with a good PCIe sound card will outperform and i9 with a usb soundcard with respect to latency. In general though there is nothing an i9 cannot handle with a good sound card.
📝 Reply

Similar Threads

Thread / Thread Starter Replies / Views Last Post
replies: 835 views: 169499
Avatar for jlgrimes11
jlgrimes11 4 weeks ago
replies: 56 views: 8084
Avatar for Aiyn Zahav
Aiyn Zahav 10th August 2012
replies: 441 views: 81726
Avatar for ORCHESTRION
ORCHESTRION 3 weeks ago
replies: 502 views: 53662
Avatar for vitocorleone123
vitocorleone123 1 week ago
Topic:
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
🖨️ Show Printable Version
✉️ Email this Page
🔍 Search thread
🎙️ View mentioned gear
Forum Jump
Forum Jump