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Apple to announce ARM chips for all Macs
Old 14 hours ago | Show parent
  #2431
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelpv View Post
This is interesting. However I've just seen a video of a guy testing Logic running natively with lots of 3rd party plugins under Rosetta. His session was crashing all over the place. He then proceeded to run Logic itself under Rosetta (yes, it's possible) and then all problems disappeared.

Of course there must be a performance hit by doing that, but at least it's an option. As most plugins that ran under Catalina will work with Big Sur (at least the x86 version of Big Sur) this might be the answer for music producers as of now.

I understand that this developer is talking more about performance and CPU hit, and that's a total valid point, but from a stability point, it seems that using Rosetta for everything - including the DAW itself - might be the way to go until most developers catch up with Apple Silicon.
Interesting...

I also saw a video where they tested some popular 3rd party plug ins, also inside a DAW that was Rosetta translated:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TALSO1Hwmso

When they tried Slate Digital, it looked like it worked in terms of audio but the GUI was messed up all over the place.

I think the main take-home so far is that it's obviously still not the best idea for anyone doing real work to jump over to Apple Silicon except in some cases, such as for a secondary machine using mainly stock plug ins in Logic for example. The reason why they started this transition with bottom-tier machines looks far more obvious now. They knew that people who really depend on 3rd party stuff would do better to wait, and what better way to give the transition to universal binaries a nudge along than to make Apple Silicon Macs a reality on the market?

Also, that statement from Audio Damage is encouraging. Since the announcement of the transition earlier this year, Apple have been saying all along that any software built on up-to-date standards with current developer tools should be a cinch to port. I'm sure there will be still some that take a while, but the feeling I'm getting is that it's going to be quicker than expected in general.
Old 14 hours ago | Show parent
  #2432
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tbirdparis View Post
I
When they tried Slate Digital, it looked like it worked in terms of audio but the GUI was messed up all over the place.
Maybe now FGX-2 will come out?
Old 14 hours ago | Show parent
  #2433
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelpv View Post
I understand that this developer is talking more about performance and CPU hit, and that's a total valid point, but from a stability point, it seems that using Rosetta for everything - including the DAW itself - might be the way to go until most developers catch up with Apple Silicon.
The video of the guy running Studio Ohe in Rosetta mode didn't look too promising. Let me look in the other thread...

Here we go:


In this video, it looks as if running Logic natively along with rosetta-ized plugins would be the way to go.
Old 14 hours ago | Show parent
  #2434
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sascha Franck View Post
The video of the guy running Studio Ohe in Rosetta mode didn't look too promising. Let me look in the other thread...

Here we go:

In this video, it looks as if running Logic natively along with rosetta-ized plugins would be the way to go.
It's interesting, because different people are experiencing different results depending on which 3rd party plugins they are using.

Watch this one here (from 1:40 on):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KSWE-Ruj1Nk
Old 13 hours ago | Show parent
  #2435
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelpv View Post
It's interesting, because different people are experiencing different results depending on which 3rd party plugins they are using.

Watch this one here (from 1:40 on):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KSWE-Ruj1Nk
I guess it's pretty much depending on which plugins exactly you're using, some simply seem to translate better via Rosetta than others.

I'd think all the major vendors will have native (or thoroughly tested rosetta-ized) up an running in a pretty short time.
Old 13 hours ago | Show parent
  #2436
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kludgeaudio's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sascha Franck View Post
I guess it's pretty much depending on which plugins exactly you're using, some simply seem to translate better via Rosetta than others.
As I said a few months ago, it's just like the yellow box. Stuff that is coded well will translate well, stuff that relies on silly tricks or is just plain sloppy likely won't translate well. Our basic coding standards today are only a little bit better than they were in the yellow box days.
--scott
Old 13 hours ago | Show parent
  #2437
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kludgeaudio View Post
As I said a few months ago, it's just like the yellow box. Stuff that is coded well will translate well, stuff that relies on silly tricks or is just plain sloppy likely won't translate well.
Not exactly sure about that. Take AVX instructions. Apparently they're good for quite some extra juice when it comes to plugins. And I could pretty well imagine that these plugins would run pretty bad on those M1 machines, due to the lack of said instructions.
And well, I wouldn't qualify making use of AVX a "silly trick".
Old 11 hours ago
  #2438
Gear Maniac
 

Has anyone tried using Migration Assistant to transfer over some legacy stuff that normally would not install? I'm curious if for example older versions of Pro Tools may actually run thanks to some Rosetta magic.
Old 11 hours ago | Show parent
  #2439
Lives for gear
 
Lady Gaia's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by tbirdparis View Post
When they tried Slate Digital, it looked like it worked in terms of audio but the GUI was messed up all over the place.
I have several plug-ins that have graphical issues on Big Sur running on Intel as well. So it's worth trying to distinguish between those that exhibit problems specific to Apple Silicon, and those that aren't yet Big Sur compatible in general.
Old 10 hours ago
  #2440
Gear Maniac
Studio One Expert Test:

https://www.pro-tools-expert.com/pro...eid=ec16d13dc8

The Studio One Power Test
However, we are not aware of any current Studio One benchmark test for power so we created our own. The test involved the following. We created a track that has an instance of:

Mai Tai virtual synthesiser triggered by an Arpeggiator pattern.
An instance of Ampire running Amp STV
An instance of Fat Channel running Tube Comp and Passive EQ


The Results
MacBook Pro 16" 2019 - Ran 43 tracks before Studio One become unstable.
Apple MacBook Pro 13" M1 2020 - Ran 86+ tracks before Studio One become unstable.
You will see we say the M1 ran 86+ tracks before Studio One became unstable, in fact we kept adding tracks and couldn’t get Studio One to fall over, so we stopped at 100.
Old 8 hours ago | Show parent
  #2441
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pingafuego View Post
The Results
MacBook Pro 16" 2019 - Ran 43 tracks before Studio One become unstable.
Apple MacBook Pro 13" M1 2020 - Ran 86+ tracks before Studio One become unstable.
You will see we say the M1 ran 86+ tracks before Studio One became unstable, in fact we kept adding tracks and couldn’t get Studio One to fall over, so we stopped at 100.
That is absolutely insane - and way beyond anything I would've ever expected.
Old 8 hours ago | Show parent
  #2442
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dstrom View Post
Has anyone tried using Migration Assistant to transfer over some legacy stuff that normally would not install? I'm curious if for example older versions of Pro Tools may actually run thanks to some Rosetta magic.
Yep. I was hoping for NI and UAD to work by migrating but that way turned out to be more chaos than a clean install, where half of my stuff isn’t working yet.
Old 8 hours ago | Show parent
  #2443
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TAFKAT's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pingafuego View Post
Studio One Expert Test:

The Results
MacBook Pro 16" 2019 - Ran 43 tracks before Studio One become unstable.
Apple MacBook Pro 13" M1 2020 - Ran 86+ tracks before Studio One become unstable.
Be interesting to know what buffer the test was run at. With the test being publicly available, I am sure others will run the test and compare numbers across other systems/OS's and interfaces ( instead of internal )
Old 7 hours ago | Show parent
  #2444
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pingafuego View Post
You will see we say the M1 ran 86+ tracks before Studio One became unstable, in fact we kept adding tracks and couldn’t get Studio One to fall over, so we stopped at 100.
Pretty insane. Seems to tally with some bench marks but not others, I wonder whats going on.

I read one user on reddit saying he had no slowdown in editing until he hit 40gb file sizes. Very interested to see a proper Kontakt test on one of these. Hopefully that will put to bed questions about ram.
Old 7 hours ago | Show parent
  #2445
Lives for gear
 
kludgeaudio's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sascha Franck View Post
Not exactly sure about that. Take AVX instructions. Apparently they're good for quite some extra juice when it comes to plugins. And I could pretty well imagine that these plugins would run pretty bad on those M1 machines, due to the lack of said instructions.
And well, I wouldn't qualify making use of AVX a "silly trick".
No, but you'd expect the emulator to emulate the AVX instructions. They might not run in the same time as on the native processor, but there's no reason not to emulate that. That's by no means a silly trick.

By silly tricks, I mean things like timing loops, or code that is dependent on the instruction timing being fairly precise, or union gimmicks, or atomic operations that aren't really atomic but are close enough to hardly ever fail, etc. Or any tricks that depend on particular processor cache management behavior. Oh, and everybody's favorite: jamming booleans into the flags register in order to return a condition code.

Then stuff like xlat tricks... using a load-short because you are pretty sure the top bits are always going to be zero anyway... stuff like that usually works in a good emulator but.... maybe won't.

I'm hoping nobody today has self-modifying executables, in part because processor cache makes the behavior of such things undefined... but.... I have seen people do it before in the PPC world....
--scott
Old 7 hours ago
  #2446
Gear Addict
 

More interesting results coming in regarding Logic benchmarks... The latest info I've learned: LPX (native) running 3rd party plugins (rosetta) VS LPX (under rosetta) running same plugins seem to perform equivalently in terms of pure performance. However when everything is under Rosetta things become way more stable. This is, to me, a big deal, because most of what was okay on Big Sur (x86) will work on M1 if Logic is also set to open with Rosetta - the AVX stuff being the most notable exception, but we all knew it wouldn't work months ago.

One can only wonder how big of an improvement running everything natively will be. Soon we'll know, hopefully.
Old 3 minutes ago
  #2447
Lives for gear
Some good news from the RME forums. The thunderbolt protocol includes firewire apparently, people have already gotten external firewire hard drives working on M1 macs so it’s possible to get firewire devices like my Fireface 800
running in the future. sits up to RME at this point. Same of course applies to other audio interfaces as well.
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