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Apple to announce ARM chips for all Macs
Old 1 day ago
  #691
Here for the gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by willem1958 View Post
Once I bought an ipad 2 and one and a half year later the updates stopped with ios 10 so after a few years most of my apps couldn't update anymore and my ipad was worthless.
Never gonna buy an apple again.
Why was your iPad worthless? Did it stop working?
Old 22 hours ago
  #692
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattyJoe View Post
One of their Engineers in a WWDC presentation said they've found that their architecture "scales up very well" and preserves the performance-per-watt (proportionally) seen in the iPhone and iPad. This was one of the main points that led to their decision.

I fully expect the first Apple Silicon Macs to blow people away in benchmarks, actually.
This is what I hope for. I think at this point for all but the most demanding film composers, the top of the line consumer desktops out right now are more than enough, and if Apple in a few years can put that level of power into a laptop, that's pretty much a computer I could own until it dies in 15+ years.
Old 20 hours ago
  #693
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MattyJoe View Post
I fully expect the first Apple Silicon Macs to blow people away in benchmarks, actually.
The only thing the last 30 year or so that blow me was the Alpha AXP processor and the AMD Threadripper. Im quite sure that the apple processor wont blow me, but I hope it does. You need about 4x the speed of the predecessor to get that blow. Threadripper gives that on entry level xeons. So about 2x for todays Mac pro. So they need to show a Mac Pro that is 8x as fast as their current top model.
Adding to that Moore's law that Intel's should be about 2x over 3 years. So 16x.
Do you they will blow me away?
Old 19 hours ago
  #694
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bace View Post
Im quite sure that the apple processor wont blow me, but I hope it does.
Yeah, I'm a 13 year old boy, sorry!


[cough]
Seriously, no reason to apply Moores Law, it's been kinda stagnant for a while anyway. What was meant is that Apple could actually be in a position to offer more than competitive speeds. They have the financial resources to do it, hopefully they have the will to do it.
Old 18 hours ago
  #695
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Quote:
Originally Posted by machinesworking View Post
Yeah, I'm a 13 year old boy, sorry!


[cough]
Seriously, no reason to apply Moores Law, it's been kinda stagnant for a while anyway. What was meant is that Apple could actually be in a position to offer more than competitive speeds. They have the financial resources to do it, hopefully they have the will to do it.
I think Threadripper shows that Moores Law is still applicable.
Old 16 hours ago
  #696
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave_Ionic View Post
I was aware of that and was speaking to the 13 inch as some of us actually do like the small portability. Forgive me your scathing criticism and derision for not stating that. I am not a I run my studio on laptop person. So I ignore 15’s as they get expensive quickly. I use 13’s for quick on the go things and normal business like stuff like taxes and whatnot.
You presented your case pretty much as if 15" quadcores hadn't existed, so I'm not sure why you're being upset about.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave_Ionic View Post
Oh and I should add a lot of musicians prefer 13’s and Airs for portability as well and would rather not have to take a 15 or 16 out on the road.
You speak for yourself. While I've seen musicians and DJs with 13"s on the road, a vast majority of those have met the grim truth that wasn't sufficient, if not in CPU power but in power for externals. Personally I've totally circumvented your assumptions by utilizing the 2nd hand Mac market for 15"s. Not using the latest model has worked out great for me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave_Ionic View Post
Perhaps you should have thought about those things before firing off 15 rapid fire responses to everyones posts.
You're not making sense here. I can see 3 posts of mine, one being my response to you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave_Ionic View Post
Oh and widening your scope of viewpoint as well.
I am widening my viewpoints my learning about yours and others, right? Your point of view is both welcome and valid, but it's not the only reality, which here means you yourself shouldn't ignore MacBook Pro models that have been massively popular with musicians/producers and DJs. While I can understand some may prefer 13" and smaller, that choice does come with hidden costs, such as weak CPU power in comparison with concurrent 15" models.

Last edited by Mikael B; 16 hours ago at 11:06 AM..
Old 12 hours ago
  #697
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Lady Gaia's Avatar
Moore's Law is often invoked as if it had something to say about performance. It doesn't. It only ever stated that the number of transistors would double regularly (I believe it was originally written as every eighteen months and later updated to twenty-four months but my memory could be playing tricks on me.) The fact that more transistors doesn't directly lead to greater performance for sequential tasks in recent decades is an entirely unrelated observation.

I think Apple can surprise people with price/performance and convenient form factors. As discussed above, if the 13" MBP were a more capable device that'd make a lot of people happy, even if it's not competing with a bleeding edge desktop 28-core CPU.
Old 11 hours ago
  #698
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bace View Post
I think Threadripper shows that Moores Law is still applicable.
If we ignore that it hasn't really been the case for about 4 years, I suppose. threadrippers are cool, but it's basically throwing cores at the problem, which is a solution to the issue of chips hitting a wall speed wise.

More succinctly, my 8 year old laptop is not 16 times less powerful than modern laptops. It's more like half as powerful, which is a total slowing down of thermal's etc. Take into account that we like single core performance scores and we're looking at a Geekbench score of 734 VS 1228.
Old 11 hours ago
  #699
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Quote:
Originally Posted by machinesworking View Post
If we ignore that it hasn't really been the case for about 4 years, I suppose. threadrippers are cool, but it's basically throwing cores at the problem, which is a solution to the issue of chips hitting a wall speed wise.

More succinctly, my 8 year old laptop is not 16 times less powerful than modern laptops. It's more like half as powerful, which is a total slowing down of thermal's etc. Take into account that we like single core performance scores and we're looking at a Geekbench score of 734 VS 1228.
I think that is one of the reasons Apple drop Intel. Intel does not follow Moore's law! And laptop has other trade-offs. Battery times has become better the last years. Ang geekbench test a other parts than CPU too.
Old 10 hours ago
  #700
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Pashkuli's Avatar
 

Motorola, PowerPC, Intel, Arm...
Apple is the perfect example of a 'Gear Slut'!
Old 9 hours ago
  #701
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bace View Post
I think Threadripper shows that Moores Law is still applicable.
In total installed computing power maybe - but that's horizontal scaling (more cores) in terms of thermals and clock-speed we are pretty much against the wall. The improvements through shrinking dies further isn't returning clock speed as the smaller CPUs become more heat dense and difficult to cool. The only real benefit is more CPUs per slab of silicon - profits.

DAW workloads by their nature end up with lots of contending threads working on the same data - adding more and more cores only makes the contention worse and the movement of data from cache to cache or worse, CPU to CPU, adds latency and burns CPU cycles.

The only way I can think of tackling this problem with DAW workloads is by constant rendering, ie everything is rendered automatically as you make changes – not when you play the session back. So only tracks that are truly dynamic and cannot be pre-rendered are done during playback – all the other tracks are rendered constantly as you make changes – packets of work for your many β€œengines”, so 80% of your workload during playback is just mixing background-rendered tracks - tracks rendered as you work. This approach could even lead to cloud based DAWs, where plugins are just microservices running on AWS or whatever which you pay as you use or buy an all you can eat licence.
Old 9 hours ago
  #702
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scragend View Post
In total installed computing power maybe - but that's horizontal scaling (more cores) in terms of thermals and clock-speed we are pretty much against the wall. The improvements through shrinking dies further isn't returning clock speed as the smaller CPUs become more heat dense and difficult to cool. The only real benefit is more CPUs per slab of silicon - profits.
Moore's law is about the number of transistors in integrated circuits so more core's is to obey this law.
Old 8 hours ago
  #703
DGL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pashkuli View Post
Motorola, PowerPC, Intel, Arm...
Apple is the perfect example of a 'Gear Slut'!
If you add non mac's then you have to add the Mostek 6502 (apple I/II/III) and the Western Design Centre 16bit version of the 8502 the W65C816S (IIGS).
Old 7 hours ago
  #704
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Lady Gaia's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pashkuli View Post
Motorola, PowerPC, Intel, Arm...
Apple is the perfect example of a 'Gear Slut'!
Love this observation! If you include NeXT history, given that Apple acquired them and their work became the foundation for the modern macOS? Then you can add in a few more architectures that they've supported over the years: HP PA-RISC, Sun's Sparc, and two variants that I've seen up and running but I don't believe shipped in any form. One was for the DEC Alpha line, and another for the Motorola MC88110 which was to be at the heart of NeXT's own line of RISC workstations before they got out of the hardware business. I've even seen a working prototype of the latter.

Modern CPU wars are so much more tame than back when the industry was truly wild.
Old 7 hours ago
  #705
Gear Addict
 
Jake's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pashkuli View Post
Motorola, PowerPC, Intel, Arm...
Apple is the perfect example of a 'Gear Slut'!
Maybe it's just me but my tracks were just warmer and punchier on the old PowerPC!
Old 6 hours ago
  #706
Quote:
Originally Posted by machinesworking View Post
If we ignore that it hasn't really been the case for about 4 years, I suppose. threadrippers are cool, but it's basically throwing cores at the problem, which is a solution to the issue of chips hitting a wall speed wise.

More succinctly, my 8 year old laptop is not 16 times less powerful than modern laptops. It's more like half as powerful, which is a total slowing down of thermal's etc. Take into account that we like single core performance scores and we're looking at a Geekbench score of 734 VS 1228.
Many take Moore's Law today to mean the number of transistors within a given measured area, not "per chip". So, 14nm to 10nm to 7nm etc. increases that density and makes it so Moore's Law, under that interpretation, is still somewhat relevant, especially when you use the 2 year version, not the original single-year version (which would have required 256 * the starting number of transistors over 8 years).

Pete
Old 6 hours ago
  #707
Gear Addict
 
uOpt's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jake View Post
Maybe it's just me but my tracks were just warmer and punchier on the old PowerPC!
Only those with the first-generation polyethylene cases.

When they changed the composition of the plastic the sound advantage went to hell.
Old 2 hours ago
  #708
Gear Guru
 
Muser's Avatar
it's probably going to be the best thing since sliced bread. but then I always say that about anything.
and even though I'm always wrong I remain woefully optimistic.
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