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Apple to announce ARM chips for all Macs
Old 1 day ago
  #752
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juiseman's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychlist1972 View Post
I'm not aware of any plans to dump x86/64. However, Arm is definitely part of what we're working on. We dabbled with it with the release of Windows 8, working with nvidia. Now, we have our SQ1 developed with Qualcomm, and shipping in the Surface Pro X.

We also emulate x86 on the Arm64 devices using the same tech that lets you run x86 on Intel x86/64, and long ago enabled 16 bit apps to run on 32 bit Windows (Wow64). Compatibility is super important, and no, we're not giving up on that, even though it often means we're later to market.

There's a lot more to be done there, for sure, but we're serious about having an Arm offering, especially where it can help with battery life, temperature, etc.

Aside: as of 2017, it's "Arm" not "ARM". It's no longer an acronym.

Aside2: We have Linux integrated into Windows with the Windows Subsystem for Linux. Not sure how you meant that to apply to Arm, however. WSL is a developer feature, and our current Arm offerings are more "develop for" than "develop on".

Pete
Yes, sorry I didn't mean integrate arm Linux subsystem, I meant that windows already has been playing with arm for years, and now there integrating some Linux stuff. Not to replace X86/X64, but to run on top of it...I thought Wow64 was for 32 bit to run on 64 bit?
Old 21 hours ago
  #753
Quote:
Originally Posted by juiseman View Post
Yes, sorry I didn't mean integrate arm Linux subsystem, I meant that windows already has been playing with arm for years, and now there integrating some Linux stuff. Not to replace X86/X64, but to run on top of it...I thought Wow64 was for 32 bit to run on 64 bit?
Yeah, sorry. That sentence was not clear. That's what Wow64 is on Windows 64 bit today. Same approach is used to let 32bit Intel and 32 bit Arm run on Arm64. WOW first came about to enable 16 bit apps to run on 32 bit versions of Windows.

Not sure how Apple does it, but It's likely conceptually similar.

Pete
Old 21 hours ago
  #754
Gear Addict
 
kludgeaudio's Avatar
 

Well, the thing is that audio is one of the things that a vector pipe will actually help with. Linus thinks that getting better performance on general purpose scalar code is more important than getting better performance on vector operations. He has a point there for the average user, but audio folks will benefit from faster convolutions and FFTs.
--scott
Old 21 hours ago
  #755
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We should all start practicing saying “Apple SoC” instead of “ARM” from now on, since this is the official name for them

In 5-6 years, all Mac discussion terminology will have replaced “CPUs” with “SoCs.”
Old 20 hours ago
  #756
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uOpt's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by kludgeaudio View Post
Well, the thing is that audio is one of the things that a vector pipe will actually help with. Linus thinks that getting better performance on general purpose scalar code is more important than getting better performance on vector operations. He has a point there for the average user, but audio folks will benefit from faster convolutions and FFTs.
--scott
Are libraries like FFTW using the newest SIMD instructions? I don't think so.

ETA: FFTW does, I just found it in the git tree:
https://github.com/FFTW/fftw3/commit...8913794a662e29
Old 20 hours ago
  #757
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattyJoe View Post
We should all start practicing saying “Apple SoC” instead of “ARM” from now on, since this is the official name for them

In 5-6 years, all Mac discussion terminology will have replaced “CPUs” with “SoCs.”
Apple Silicon

Pete
Old 20 hours ago
  #758
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juiseman's Avatar
/* NOTE: this code is a total guess. I don't have an avx512
machine available. The code contributed by Erik Lindahl would
crash on a machine without XGETBV, so I had to guess a fix. */
if (!init) {

lol...scrolling to the bottom of that last link..
Old 20 hours ago
  #759
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juiseman's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychlist1972 View Post
Apple Silicon

Pete
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Silicon
Old 18 hours ago
  #760
Gear Addict
 
uOpt's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by juiseman View Post
/* NOTE: this code is a total guess. I don't have an avx512
machine available. The code contributed by Erik Lindahl would
crash on a machine without XGETBV, so I had to guess a fix. */
if (!init) {

lol...scrolling to the bottom of that last link..
I didn't say they have *working* support
Old 18 hours ago
  #761
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychlist1972 View Post
Apple Silicon

Pete
Yes. And after a few year Apple claims ownership of Silicon, and later that it is apple invention and no one else are allowed to use it.
Old 16 hours ago
  #762
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Dave_Ionic's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by bace View Post
Yes. And after a few year Apple claims ownership of Silicon, and later that it is apple invention and no one else are allowed to use it.
Ya that will not happen but ya that was nice joke at Apples expense.
Old 15 hours ago
  #763
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ponzi's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by bace View Post
Yes. And after a few year Apple claims ownership of Silicon, and later that it is apple invention and no one else are allowed to use it.
Just a trademarking of the word...

They trademarked the widely used noun apple...

Last edited by ponzi; 13 hours ago at 12:35 AM..
Old 13 hours ago
  #764
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikael B View Post
You make it sound as if various tracks operate within different time. But as that's not so, musical time is one, hopefully you didn't intend to. You also make it sound as if handling, say 10 tracks, on a single core, is less problematic than spreading the work out to more cores.
From a system architecture and design - let alone operating system task latency - spreading stuff over cores is HUGELY problematic when those processes require access to the exact same data.
Old 12 hours ago
  #765
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ponzi View Post
Just a trademarking of the word...

They trademarked the widely used noun apple...
To be fair they paid the Beatles huge sums of cash for it.
Old 10 hours ago
  #766
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Lady Gaia's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scragend View Post
From a system architecture and design - let alone operating system task latency - spreading stuff over cores is HUGELY problematic when those processes require access to the exact same data.
You pick your poison to some extent. If you want parallelism you get it by distributing tasks across cores, and then there's some coordination cost. Still, if there's a reasonable interconnect across cores you're talking about somewhere between 20-200 cycles at the handoff point to hit another core's cache and that's a pittance compared to the benefits you get out of doing work in parallel.

It may not be a trivial undertaking, but as people have observed after one fashion or another here, CPUs simply aren't getting that much faster for single-threaded tasks. There are practical limits, and going wide is the best available option for effectively applying a lot of transistors to a problem.
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