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Apple to announce ARM chips for all Macs
Old 3rd July 2020
  #601
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ponzi's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychlist1972 View Post
...I would suggest, if folks want to discuss that SoC/Article further, another thread be spun up so as not to clog this one with info not relevant to Apple's Arm devices.

Pete
Wel, aren't you the discreet one. I read the anandtech article and was hoping that somebody from microsoft--anyone there really--might say something about whether windows 10 does or will have some sort of thread scheduling mechanism which could take full advantage of the big/little core architecture.

Perhaps it could be added to the windows 10 thread...
Old 3rd July 2020
  #602
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ponzi's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by machinesworking View Post
Batteries are relatively easy on the older macbook pros.

Yeah I wasn't saying NI weren't going to support the Arm chips, it's a given they will.
Just that their past dictates that it might not be easy for them, plus they're I'm 100% sure going to be getting resizable GUIs at the same time, which plays into your theory they might eliminate some debt.

To counter my thoughts they are going to have a hard time though, the local NI employee that hangs out at KVR said they were already starting on the Arm port so...

What I'm curious about is the legacy stuff, things like Nomad Factory, where the chief developer died, so some of the older plug ins just might be too much work to port. Freeware will probably not make it. It's possible Air doesn't make it, they haven't really done too much in years to their plug ins beside monthly $99 for everything sales. Ohm Force, their older stuff etc.
On the batteries, true that. I noticed the battery looked pretty easy to replace on the macbook, but since it was working I decided to wait. Its just a bunch of tiny phillips head screws. Not some kind of maddening and intricate puzzle like the mini was when I put in ssd.

I don't recall disagreeing with anyone on NI stuff, just putting my prediction out there. To be clear, technical debt is a concept relating to technology shortcuts or poorly written code and the like which accomplish a goal in the short term but make it harder to move forward in the future. I was not referring to financial debt.

I have no insight, nor much of an emotional investment, in NI's future, but I sure read a lot of stuff about what they are doing wrong. My thought is if they get into a pinch and need to perform a lifeboat exercise*, they can bring forward kontakt and reaktor and leave a lot of their other stuff behind. I got komplete mostly for these two programs as well as the kontakt libraries.

I think last time I looked my NI installer said '99 programs not installed'. Komplete has everything but the kitchen sink in it and I suspect its because they buy plug-ins from failed companies and re-brand them so they can say that the upgrade to the new version of komplete has x number of new plug-ins. I suspect that kontakt is 90% of what most people consider the essential NI plug-in and this is due to the existing sample libraries people own. But just guessing. I bought the full version of the steinberg sampler, and am exploring that, so loss of kontakt would not be the end of my little world.

Having said that, I am on windows 10 so not seeing how I need to upgrade any NI products until my hardware fails and I can't get x86 device to replace it, or windows changes so much that NI does not work any more. At this time, these both seem very unlikely.

* A lifeboat exercise is a thought experiment where a group is presented an imaginary scenario where they have to prioritize things and argue about their opinions. The scenario is you are on a lifeboat and in order for it to continue floating, things need to be thrown overboard, either people or equipment depending on how intense the exersize. As a metaphor, it represents an emergent situation where tough decisions need to be made where things need to be let go. If its mild enough, it makes a good ice-breaker for kits at a church camp or the like: "Well, I think we should keep the medical kit in case someone gets hurt and throw overboard the barbells..."
Old 3rd July 2020
  #603
Gear Addict
 

Point one:

A human brain runs on around 20 volts and is about 70% more efficient then a super computer requiring 150 000 liters of water every 15 minutes to keep it cool; not to mention its power consumption.


Point 2:

Microprocessors face quantum effects around 7nm.

Why not take advantage of them computationally instead of fighting these quantum effects?


Point 3: Framework laying the ground for current chipsets is based on technology from the 1950's.

Why have no engineering teams done a "rewrite" of its architecture from scratch using cutting edge current academic research?


Point 4:

Academics claim to have successfully created quantum chips based on silicon; and created microchips that use light to perform calculations etc.

When will scientific discoveries based on scientific research often funded by DARPA; be allowed to change the hierarchical nature of silicon valley (from the VC's up to the chip manufacturers)?


Point 5:

Biology still beats technology in terms of energy efficiency.

Where is the research/ ambition level, research funding within the tech sector that supports energy efficient technological development that matches biological efficiency?


6......

How would a new computer language based on a technological platforms created from scratch look; if the ambition level was to make current languages like C (scale that up the stack to Java or whatever) seem like vacuum tubes compared to modern micro chips?!??!?

Old 3rd July 2020
  #604
Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelpv View Post
LOL! Saw what you did there...
I am with you brother. I hope they fix it for you.
Old 3rd July 2020
  #605
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bilbobaggins View Post
I am with you brother. I hope they fix it for you.
But it wasn't me!
Old 3rd July 2020
  #606
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gomjab View Post
Hey if what you have, does everything you need, then enjoy and make music! But this is gearslutz so many will always seek the new shiny thing.

Yeah, I hear ya! And there should be nothing wrong with us discussing - or lusting after - new gear.

I just have a bad feeling about this one.

There are just too many software developers invested in x86 code. I fear many of them won't survive The Transition (this includes Logic - it will suck for about 5 years' of development while Apple 'irons out the kinks' ). And for what? Arm hasn't proved itself to be any better than x86 (just more power efficient)
It really feels like Apple is just being awkward for awkwardness' sake on this one.
Old 3rd July 2020
  #607
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by invalidusername View Post
Can't wait to see half of my plugins not being updated to ARM by their developers... and having to buy everything back again in another form !

Also can't wait to use a "wrapper" to use old plugins... and have them crash logic pro...

If you're thinking prices will get lower with the transition : this is apple. they won't.
The plus side from my POV is that the plugin developers that can't be arsed to update to modern times aren't worth my time or money in the future, those who are on top of it obviously care about their craft. I'll stick with those guys.
Old 3rd July 2020
  #608
Here for the gear
 

I have a question for you guys who are saying "Apple is about complete control!" in a negative way.

Let's say you're running a company and your entire major laptop/desktop line is 100% reliant on a third party, like Intel. Let's say this third party company starts resting on their laurels. They make promise after promise and underdeliver, they put out bugged products which means you either have to implement these bugged products or go with last gen, neither of which looks good. They have a history of massive delays forcing you to either delay or use old technology, and there is a clear pattern of this. Their mistakes reflect back on you, so if their CPUs overheat then that means your computers are overheating and because of this you take flack from the general consumers.

Now let's say you have been designing your own CPUs for the last decade and nearly every iteration has seen huge leaps in performance. You have some of the smartest engineers in the business and you eventually reach a point where you think you can equal or even better the third party you were using. You have high tech laboratories and way more information regarding this than the common armchair critic. Nobody else but you knows the true potential of your own technology (and haters will always hate). Furthermore, since these CPUs are your own custom designs, you have the opportunity to finely tune them to work perfectly with your software, you have the expertise to eke out every CPU cycle and tailor your technology *exactly* how you see fit.

Do you:

A) Take full control of the situation and benefit from all the perks, develop at lower costs, and not rely on an unreliable third-party

or do you:

B) Continue to let the third-party take control of you.

?
Old 3rd July 2020
  #609
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Usgggg View Post
Point one:

A human brain runs on around 20 volts and is about 70% more efficient then a super computer requiring 150 000 liters of water every 15 minutes to keep it cool; not to mention its power consumption.


Point 2:

Microprocessors face quantum effects around 7nm.

Why not take advantage of them computationally instead of fighting these quantum effects?


Point 3: Framework laying the ground for current chipsets is based on technology from the 1950's.

Why have no engineering teams done a "rewrite" of its architecture from scratch using cutting edge current academic research?


Point 4:

Academics claim to have successfully created quantum chips based on silicon; and created microchips that use light to perform calculations etc.

When will scientific discoveries based on scientific research often funded by DARPA; be allowed to change the hierarchical nature of silicon valley (from the VC's up to the chip manufacturers)?


Point 5:

Biology still beats technology in terms of energy efficiency.

Where is the research/ ambition level, research funding within the tech sector that supports energy efficient technological development that matches biological efficiency?


6......

How would a new computer language based on a technological platforms created from scratch look; if the ambition level was to make current languages like C (scale that up the stack to Java or whatever) seem like vacuum tubes compared to modern micro chips?!??!?

The response to every single one of these is that we don't know how to do it yet. People are researching all of these things.

1: Yes our brains are efficient, people would love to create an artificial brain, we don't know how yet.

2: If you know how to take advantage of quantum effects in sub 7nm chip designs then let someone know. This idea hasn't slipped everyone's mind, we just don't know how yet.

3: Again, this idea hasn't slipped everyone's mind, we just don't have anything that works better yet. We still generate all our electricity with steam power, even in nuclear reactors, why hasn't anything come up with something better yet?

4: They are allowed to change the nature of Silicon Valley right now, nobody is taking these scientific discoveries aside and saying "na, mate, not welcome here." In fact they are investing in them to try to make this change happen.

5: Where is the ambition and research? Being given billions of dollars. Have you missed the biotech boom? Where is the support for efficiency? Have you missed the majority of this thread which is about chip efficiency between Arm and Intel? It doesn't match biological efficiency, but again we don't know how yet.

6: I'm not even sure what you're saying here, I can't parse that sentence structure. Vacuum tube computers and modern microchips work essentially the same. Languages like C and up the stack are there to make it easier for humans to do things with them. Quantum computers might be the better comparison here as they work fundamentally different from what we have now.
Old 3rd July 2020
  #610
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I think people are also fundamentally missing out on how huge it will be to have iOS apps running native on Mac. The opportunity for small devs to have shared code, the huge influx of iOS music apps, so much good stuff will come of this. There is so much development happening for mobile now that will start to cross over.
Old 3rd July 2020
  #611
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kludgeaudio's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by motomotomoto View Post
I think people are also fundamentally missing out on how huge it will be to have iOS apps running native on Mac. The opportunity for small devs to have shared code, the huge influx of iOS music apps, so much good stuff will come of this. There is so much development happening for mobile now that will start to cross over.
I suspect this will be huge, but not in a good way. A huge influx of applications designed to work on tiny little screens invading the desktop.
--scott
Old 3rd July 2020
  #612
Quote:
Originally Posted by kludgeaudio View Post
I suspect this will be huge, but not in a good way. A huge influx of applications designed to work on tiny little screens invading the desktop.
--scott
iPad apps should look fine.

iPhone apps would be pretty bad, like they were early on when folks were just doing direct ports (or no ports, just tagging as compatible) of iPhone apps to iPad.

Pete
Old 3rd July 2020
  #613
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by signalpudding View Post
The response to every single one of these is that we don't know how to do it yet. People are researching all of these things.

1: Yes our brains are efficient, people would love to create an artificial brain, we don't know how yet.

2: If you know how to take advantage of quantum effects in sub 7nm chip designs then let someone know. This idea hasn't slipped everyone's mind, we just don't know how yet.

3: Again, this idea hasn't slipped everyone's mind, we just don't have anything that works better yet. We still generate all our electricity with steam power, even in nuclear reactors, why hasn't anything come up with something better yet?

4: They are allowed to change the nature of Silicon Valley right now, nobody is taking these scientific discoveries aside and saying "na, mate, not welcome here." In fact they are investing in them to try to make this change happen.

5: Where is the ambition and research? Being given billions of dollars. Have you missed the biotech boom? Where is the support for efficiency? Have you missed the majority of this thread which is about chip efficiency between Arm and Intel? It doesn't match biological efficiency, but again we don't know how yet.

6: I'm not even sure what you're saying here, I can't parse that sentence structure. Vacuum tube computers and modern microchips work essentially the same. Languages like C and up the stack are there to make it easier for humans to do things with them. Quantum computers might be the better comparison here as they work fundamentally different from what we have now.
I'm presuming you're missing the main point which is that current systems and their footprint seem to be limiting the scope of innovation; sort of like Alpha go in AI is more efficient when it ignores all prior knowledge and through that is able to learn and grow faster.

Apples "eco system" ( ridiculous term in my head; covid 19 lives within a REAL ecosystem and we can empirically measure its consequences) creates its own comic outcomes......Apple products will most probably NOT get cheaper now that the "space ship headquarter" bill got to be paid even if they have acess to a 2 trillion dollar R&D war chest).

In other words Alpha Go learns and grows better without any priors because prior knowledge seem to limit and distort its ability to find a more efficient solution in a more accurate and rapid manner.

Plenty of top level Academic research that could revolutionize the tech sector seems to be ignored because of the financial incentives and the gravitational constraints the current tech infrastructure creates; which in the end chokes competition and progress within the tech sector.

One of the main Intel chipset architects has pointed out the fact that progress is ignored because of financial considerations due to the powers that be.

He means that updates to chipsets that should and can be implemented are ignored because of greed as I interpreted it.
Old 3rd July 2020
  #614
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kludgeaudio View Post
I suspect this will be huge, but not in a good way. A huge influx of applications designed to work on tiny little screens invading the desktop.
--scott
You don’t have to install iPhone apps if you don’t want to, but the point is that developing for iOS has been where the money is at for a while. All of a sudden it will be (almost) effortless to release for both platforms simultaneously. That means a lot more quality software for the Mac platform. Personally I have about 200 dollars worth of iOS music apps that are amazing and I can’t wait to use on my Mac. Those include things like the Moog apps, SAMPLR, Beatmaker Pro3, Waldorf Nave and many more.
Old 4th July 2020
  #615
Gear Addict
 
Robb Robinson's Avatar
 

The majority of the music professionals I know who are making enough money to raise a family in 2020 (a substantial amount) are using El Cap on cheese-graters. Much of the perspective in this thread isn't grounded in the economics of real world music making.
Old 4th July 2020
  #616
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robb Robinson View Post
The majority of the music professionals I know who are making enough money to raise a family in 2020 (a substantial amount) are using El Cap on cheese-graters. Much of the perspective in this thread isn't grounded in the economics of real world music making.
I'm not sure what your point is? Most people are talking about the coming changes.

There are plenty of situations where you're more or less forced into using the latest OS and a new computer. I would also bet 90% or more of the pros using El Cap and old Mac Pros bought them new. Pro Tools studios don't tend to upgrade because the hardware considerations make it devastating financially, and if it works it works. If we're talking anecdotal evidence I just watched a seminar with a Hollywood film score professional using a 2020 Mac Pro, and ridiculous amounts of VEP servers.
Old 4th July 2020
  #617
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Dave_Ionic's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Usgggg View Post
Point one:

A human brain runs on around 20 volts and is about 70% more efficient then a super computer requiring 150 000 liters of water every 15 minutes to keep it cool; not to mention its power consumption.


Point 2:

Microprocessors face quantum effects around 7nm.

Why not take advantage of them computationally instead of fighting these quantum effects?


Point 3: Framework laying the ground for current chipsets is based on technology from the 1950's.

Why have no engineering teams done a "rewrite" of its architecture from scratch using cutting edge current academic research?


Point 4:

Academics claim to have successfully created quantum chips based on silicon; and created microchips that use light to perform calculations etc.

When will scientific discoveries based on scientific research often funded by DARPA; be allowed to change the hierarchical nature of silicon valley (from the VC's up to the chip manufacturers)?


Point 5:

Biology still beats technology in terms of energy efficiency.

Where is the research/ ambition level, research funding within the tech sector that supports energy efficient technological development that matches biological efficiency?


6......

How would a new computer language based on a technological platforms created from scratch look; if the ambition level was to make current languages like C (scale that up the stack to Java or whatever) seem like vacuum tubes compared to modern micro chips?!??!?

Ah excuse Point 3 is completely false . Fast transistor transistor Logic was invented by my father when he was working at Sylvania at the very end of the 50’s and was far from a product of the 50’s Everything in the 50’s was based on circuit board based transistors. There was slow transistor transistor logic but you could not make a integrated circuit using it. This is why Fairchild chased him since 62 until they finally managed to hire him in 1970. Transistor Transistor logic and integrated circuits were a product of the 60’s not the 50’s.

As far as your biologic stuff goes there are actually people working on biologic processing now. There is actually some interesting stuff going on the valley. Its just if its that sophisticated we will not know much about it. Usually because its top secret.
I did not know half of the **** my Dad invented or did till later in life because most of it was classified as the government and Military is/was closely tied to the Valley.
You did not hear that. lol

excuse me for the off topic now back to our heated discussion on Apples decision to use their own Arm chips and ditch Intel.
Old 4th July 2020
  #618
Gear Addict
 
Robb Robinson's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by machinesworking View Post
I'm not sure what your point is? Most people are talking about the coming changes.
I guess my point is that the coming changes will mean little to anyone grinding away on a stable machine. State of the art power does not equate to more income, unless perhaps you are scoring massive films, but thats pretty rare imo. Ive fallen victim to this false assumption many times over the past few decades.
Old 4th July 2020
  #619
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robb Robinson View Post
I guess my point is that the coming changes will mean little to anyone grinding away on a stable machine. State of the art power does equate to more income, unless perhaps you are scoring massive films, but thats pretty rare imo. Ive fallen victim to this false assumption many times over the past few decades.
OK cool, that was a lot more clear. It's still a little off from what people are talking about though. Only maybe three people are talking about moving to Arm chips as soon as Apple makes them available.

I have a modified cheese grater 09 Pro that will still be in my studio 10 years from now, but the laptop is a 2012, that's had it's logic board replaced, needs a third battery soon etc. At some point I'm either getting a windows laptop or the new Arm laptop when a well received probably second generation version comes out. I see no logical reason to get an Intel MacBook at this point, so I'm dialed into this conversation for what I think are practical reasons.

I used to run through laptops, for about ten years I upgraded 4 times. Yeah I hear you, that's a waste of time. To my credit though, this was 2000-2010, when laptops were barely capable of using VSTs etc.
Old 4th July 2020
  #620
js1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basslicks View Post
Do you:

A) Take full control of the situation and benefit from all the perks, develop at lower costs, and not rely on an unreliable third-party

or do you:

B) Continue to let the third-party take control of you.

?
I was about to write something similar. Intel messed up, especially with Silverlake, and became an unreliable partner. Apple product dev cycles are measured in multiple years. When you, as a partner, slip your delivery to Apple by 6 months to a year, and THEN release a buggy processor, well, let's say you are strongly encouraging them to look elsewhere.

The reason that we, in this community care, is because we buy a lot of software that is potentially tied to the Intel processor, some which will not be able to be updated.
Old 4th July 2020
  #621
Lives for gear
I'm very hard-pressed to think of a single iPhone app I want to run on my desktop that doesn't already have a desktop version.

Quote:
Originally Posted by motomotomoto View Post
I think people are also fundamentally missing out on how huge it will be to have iOS apps running native on Mac. The opportunity for small devs to have shared code, the huge influx of iOS music apps, so much good stuff will come of this. There is so much development happening for mobile now that will start to cross over.
Old 4th July 2020
  #622
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by drichard View Post
I'm very hard-pressed to think of a single iPhone app I want to run on my desktop that doesn't already have a desktop version.
I have plenty of iPad apps I'd love to run on my Mac, but the point is not that you want to run the iPhone apps it's that iOS developers (who vastly outnumber MacOS developers) will easily be able to create desktop versions of their apps. Because it's cross platform, developing for the platform will becoming even more profitable and so... more software will be developed.
Old 5th July 2020
  #623
Gear Nut
 

I'm coming into this conversation a bit late ... but I think that might not matter because my take on this stems from things thirty years in the past ...

Don't you think Apple is taking a big risk changing architectures? The last time they did this they nearly lost the business!

By that I mean that Apple was faced with end-of-life on the Motorola 68000-series processors. That ended with the 68040. The rumored 68050 never materialized. Motorola instead collaborated with IBM to create the Power PC. Apple was forced to switch.

That was a good chip ... but every existing piece of Mac software became obsolete. That gave users a reason to switch to Windows.

Until that time Windows was garbage. But it was not long after Apple's switch to Power PC that MS came out with Windows 3. That one was still a bit on the lame side, but a PC was so much cheaper than a Mac. And with a Mac you had to ditch your software because Power PC, so Apple's hold on its customers vanished.

Never give your customers a reason to switch!

OK, last time there was nothing Apple could do. There were simply no more 68000 chips expected. Done deal.

But this time is different. Apple is taking a big risk.
Old 5th July 2020
  #624
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacMacMac View Post
I'm coming into this conversation a bit late ... but I think that might not matter because my take on this stems from things thirty years in the past ...

Don't you think Apple is taking a big risk changing architectures? The last time they did this they nearly lost the business!

By that I mean that Apple was faced with end-of-life on the Motorola 68000-series processors. That ended with the 68040. The rumored 68050 never materialized. Motorola instead collaborated with IBM to create the Power PC. Apple was forced to switch.

That was a good chip ... but every existing piece of Mac software became obsolete. That gave users a reason to switch to Windows.

Until that time Windows was garbage. But it was not long after Apple's switch to Power PC that MS came out with Windows 3. That one was still a bit on the lame side, but a PC was so much cheaper than a Mac. And with a Mac you had to ditch your software because Power PC, so Apple's hold on its customers vanished.

Never give your customers a reason to switch!

OK, last time there was nothing Apple could do. There were simply no more 68000 chips expected. Done deal.

But this time is different. Apple is taking a big risk.
You're forgetting somehow (for dramatic affect?), that Apple ditched PPC for Intel chips roughly 15 years ago.

Not hardware, but the transition from OS 9 to OS X was probably even a bigger disruption of software that ran on Mac than PPC to Intel, and it's looking like that will still hold true for Intel to Arm. This will be the 4th big disruption soft or hardware wise in Apples history, and they're still here, still one of the biggest companies on the planet.

Anyway, I'm sure some customers will go Windows, I might, even if only for a VEP slave host. The thing is they could be right though, this could be them cutting out most middle men and giving a better experience to us as customers than can be expected.
Old 5th July 2020
  #625
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ponzi's Avatar
Under the hood I see innovation, but as to user experience, best case change is not noticeable—old programs still work. The device will be smaller or faster, but will cost more. So not seeing a lot to get excited about. I don’t know or care what my ipad is running—don’t care what the next one runs.
Old 5th July 2020
  #626
Gear Nut
 

Yes, they're big ... but not because of laptops. They recovered with the Ipod and then killed with the Iphone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by machinesworking View Post
... they're still here, still one of the biggest companies on the planet.
It was do or die in the mid-2000s. Anybody could make an MP3 player, and anyone could put one in a phone. Almost everything you'd need is already in the phone, save for some more flash and some more software.

So phone makers could have been poised to do just that ... and Apple would have suffered badly. But Jobs was smart. He beat them to it, and Apple flourished.

They're now making moves into other areas ... and they need to be successful at some of them. Because you can't win forever on just one product.

No matter how good the Iphone becomes ... there will be a next game-changer. I don't know what it is. That's the point ... it will be largely unexpected.

Those who don't innovate will die.
Old 5th July 2020
  #627
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by ponzi View Post
Under the hood I see innovation, but as to user experience, best case change is not noticeable—old programs still work. The device will be smaller or faster, but will cost more. So not seeing a lot to get excited about. I don’t know or care what my ipad is running—don’t care what the next one runs.
The biggest change will come for us as audio people in whether or not we can have truly quite machines even when being pushed to their limits. This 2012 MBP does OK but occasionally it fires fans full blast. Arm "could" change that.

As far as desktops are concerned I'm in total agreement with you. This is why I'm thinking my vision from years ago of using a MacBook for most things and a PC tower for heavy lifting VEP stuff.

Two years is a long time though, it's possible by then that the Zenbook dual monitor touch screen laptop is dead quiet with a great battery. Apple seem to think otherwise.

That's the other elephant in the room, are we going to see 8 core Arm iPads that are able to run Logic, Cubase, Pro Tools, Live, Bitwig, DP, and OS X applications in general? because that's my guess, that iPhones remain iOS only (or not capable of running OS X completely, but iPads simply become touch screen laptops with detachable keyboards.

IMO anyway, one of the issues with Microsofts touch screen support is it's not mandatory, developers mostly ignore it. For whatever godawful reason they just can't generate much integration, besides Bitwig really. Apple might just do this right, we will see.
Old 5th July 2020
  #628
So what is the consensus on the macbookpro? Buy the latest intel model w/64GB ram or wait a few years for the ARM models to get smoothed out (and wait for PT to do the same)
Old 5th July 2020
  #629
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
So what is the consensus on the macbookpro? Buy the latest intel model w/64GB ram or wait a few years for the ARM models to get smoothed out (and wait for PT to do the same)
i would 100 percent wait dude. and even then maybe get second gen of arm mbp

it kinda sucks i second the guy above totally gonna use my mbp for starting a lot of projects but move to my windows tower for extensive mukti track editing or final mix down
Old 5th July 2020
  #630
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Lady Gaia's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonejunkee View Post
So what is the consensus on the macbookpro? Buy the latest intel model w/64GB ram or wait a few years for the ARM models to get smoothed out (and wait for PT to do the same)
It's always wise to wait to hear what kind of experience others are having with hardware you're depending on for serious work. After all, I'd give the same advice regarding the operating system - you'd be crazy to jump straight into macOS 11.0 on anything but an experimental machine or volume. This is just good general advice for anything professional (read a photography forum and you'll see horror stories of people buying a new camera and counting on it to photograph someone's wedding the next day, followed by posts roasting them for taking that an unnecessary risk.) So given that you won't be able to run anything but the newly-released macOS 11 on brand new hardware with a new architecture? Yes, that's going to require some time to assess and there will likely be some issues to shake out. It's part of why I expect that the first new systems they release this year will likely not be aimed at professionals.

... but I don't think it's going to take more than 1-2 years from their initial release to get to the point where new Arm-based systems are a reasonable choice for music professionals. By some point in 2022 at the latest I'd count on there being a compelling MacBook Pro and green lights from hardware and software developers for everything you care most about. Work backward from that to figure out what makes sense for you.

I'll jump in the deep end because I'm a software developer who can generally work through issues I wouldn't wish on anyone else, I don't make music for a living, and I enjoy being on the bleeding edge.
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