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Win 10 is getting me down
Old 14th February 2020
  #1
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Win 10 is getting me down

Anyone else besides me being driven crazy by the constant upgrades to Win 10? They had version 1909 come out this week and from what I see its a bunch of crap that consumes CPU power and pushes more cloud support which is all bad for a DAW.

I gave up a few weeks ago on it. I got tired or waiting a half hour every time I booted for the updates to end in the background so I'd get the full CPU and memory back.

I had some time so I've spent the last couple of weeks redoing the hard drive from scratch and putting win 7 back on. I know the support has ended but I don't brows the internet with that computer, in fact I'd unplug it if it weren't for Pace Lock for my Eventide plugins and Har-Bal for mastering work. Pace lock needs to validate licenses and Har-bal uses the networks mac address for authorization.

The biggest deciding factor was Microsoft jacking with things that screwed up the daw latency. I've been recording digitally since the mid 90 and as an electronic tech who repairs business equipment for a living you develop a sensitive perception to how equipment runs. You use it daily troubleshooting gear that isn't working right.

The tinkering MS has done since developing 10 hasn't been very good at all. With older versions of windows you could predict how long certain things would take, like boot and shut down times, even windows when they opened and how long to save or move files. Its too bad Win 10 has become so bloated with crap you'll never use. Every time you improve the hardware, MS is there to gobble it up with their bloated apps they think people should use so they shove it down your throat.

Its like this cloud crap. I'm not running a business and I don't want my information shared or backed up to some cloud where it can be stolen by the next hack job. I like my computer to stay exactly the way I tweak it and any changes done only by me. I don't want any cell phone apps or garbage ware. nor do I want 50 startup apps running for crapware I have to block from being installed automatically.

In short I spend more time preventing 10 from making changes then I actually do using the computer as a daw. That's sad you know. All windows is supposed to be is a planform that allows you to run your own programs. It seems that isn't good enough for them. Instead they want you to constantly upgrade to new technology that quite honestly doesn't do a dam thing to make things more efficient or secure.

The most you can say its simply more expensive and designed to make the tech companies involved richer and it does absolutely nothing for the end user besides make the job of managing the system more complex. Its like How many more times will they reinvent the OS menus before they simply leave the dam things alone.

I'm tired of having to find where they hide the widgets i need to use and I don't like being told by some college kid get used to it. When you have to use the program daily to earn a living, you don't have time to constantly deal with what others thing is cool and slick.

That kind of stuff is irritating enough. When they jack with stuff that screws up performance, that's when I'm done with it. Vista was a nightmare due to bloatware in the beginning. They eventually shut that crap off and when thay eventually stopped jacking with it it was actually a very solid and decent running OS.

Win 7 took up where Vista left off while they doubled down on crapware un win 8. Once 10 came out they stealthily started adding the same kind of unstable updates to 7. I wound up having the same kind of latency issues running 7 about a year or so ago.

This time, I've done the latest upgrades and I locked the firewall. I can run it that way without letting anything in or out unless I say so. So far I have the thing smoking for speed and recording has never been better. I plan on cloning the hard drive this weekend and if it every gives me problems agin I can simply install the cloned drive and keep going.
Old 15th February 2020
  #2
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Brian Campbell's Avatar
 

Yes as Tafkat said in the Going back to windows 7 thread "An ongoing game of whackamole".
I became tired of the problems and went back to Win7. All good.

Last edited by Brian Campbell; 15th February 2020 at 11:09 PM..
Old 15th February 2020
  #3
Lives for gear
I revived the "Windows 10 is rolling out" thread with my latest gripe so won't repost here. But, yeah. Tuesday's update killed the Mail app on this (office) computer. I emailed myself a link from my DAW computer to read here and...no... app won't open.

DAW still stuck on 1709. Won't update. Won't say why. But kept on trying for 2 years until I finally froze it. That means no security updates either. Windows likes to keep the reason to themselves apparently.
Old 15th February 2020
  #4
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by wrgkmc View Post
and as an electronic tech who repairs business equipment for a living you develop a sensitive perception to how equipment runs. You use it daily troubleshooting gear that isn't working right.
We may be in the same line of work although I wouldn't call myself an electronics tech. More electro/mechanical with sufficient electronics knowledge to troubleshoot. PCBs go of to a repair facility.
Old 15th February 2020
  #5
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thevisi0nary's Avatar
 

Neither windows 10 home or pro has ever really evolved to being a true professional platform. There is just too much of a “live” element, and workstations in my experience always are more stable in a closed environment. Too many services that run constantly without tinkering and too much bloat. To be fair macOS hasn’t been much better in this regard as of late.

I recently switched over to windows 10 on both my machines because I prefer the interface and certain features, but mainly because I just want to figure out ways to adapt to it as 7 is going to have compatibility problems with future software. Not saying anyone else should or shouldn’t do this though.

For every aspect regarding stability, win7 was just better. 10 has improved over the years but it’s fundamentally not designed the same.
Old 15th February 2020
  #6
Lives for gear
I wonder what kind of investment it would take to develop a "Creators' OS" if all the main players jumped on board up front. Audio, video and any other potential 'creators' that don't need the business and household 'one size fits all' clutter. They could still port to Windows and Apple, but the main development would be for Creators.

I know. Pipe dream.
Old 16th February 2020
  #7
Gear Nut
 

Why dont you guys just use Windows 8.1 instead of Windows 7? It has extended support until 2023.

I hope that until 2023 Microsoft manages to release a new Windows 10 only once a year or once in two years....
Old 16th February 2020
  #8
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Quetz's Avatar
I haven't had any performance or app issues with Win 10, but it seems this is still very much a lottery for a lot of people which isn't what you want from a platform, especially if you rely on it to earn revenue.
Old 17th February 2020
  #9
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thevisi0nary's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by onewire View Post
I wonder what kind of investment it would take to develop a "Creators' OS" if all the main players jumped on board up front. Audio, video and any other potential 'creators' that don't need the business and household 'one size fits all' clutter. They could still port to Windows and Apple, but the main development would be for Creators.

I know. Pipe dream.
Definitely a pipe dream, but an amazing one lol.
Old 17th February 2020
  #10
Gear Guru
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by wrgkmc View Post
Anyone else besides me being driven crazy by the constant upgrades to Win 10?
Not me, because it's incredibly easy to defer upgrades for a year and security updates for a month. Easy peasy.

Unless you're not running the "pro" version or don't know what you're doing.

Something tells me your post is just the average long post from you though and you aren't really in the mood for conversation, just one-way communication.

And you could have used the already existing thread(s) on the topic btw.
Old 17th February 2020
  #11
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Turn-off-the-updates. Pete details it often...as like about three days ago.
Old 17th February 2020
  #12
Gear Maniac
 
Quasar's Avatar
Windows 10 is a fine OS for music production as long as you keep it offline.
Old 17th February 2020
  #13
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by wrgkmc View Post
Anyone else besides me being driven crazy by the constant upgrades to Win 10? They had version 1909 come out this week and from what I see its a bunch of crap that consumes CPU power and pushes more cloud support which is all bad for a DAW.

I gave up a few weeks ago on it. I got tired or waiting a half hour every time I booted for the updates to end in the background so I'd get the full CPU and memory back.

I had some time so I've spent the last couple of weeks redoing the hard drive from scratch and putting win 7 back on.
Props on breaking out of of the Win 10 asylum Win 7 was far better; my next PC will either come with Win 7 or I'll buy a license and figure out a way to zap 10 and put 7 on there.


Quote:
Originally Posted by marco_well View Post
Why dont you guys just use Windows 8.1 instead of Windows 7?
The best thing that can be said about Win 10 is it's not Win 8.X. Which isn't saying much.
Old 17th February 2020
  #14
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattiasnyc View Post
Not me, because it's incredibly easy to defer upgrades for a year and security updates for a month. Easy peasy.
Yeah, be driven crazy a little ways down the road instead of right off. Great solution.

Quote:
Something tells me your post is just the average long post from you though and you aren't really in the mood for conversation, just one-way communication.
Yeah if only he had a great attitude like you

Something tells me your post is just an excuse to piss down someone's back for no particular reason. Did this guy call your mommy a bad name or something?
Old 17th February 2020
  #15
Gear Guru
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bill5 View Post
Yeah, be driven crazy a little ways down the road instead of right off. Great solution.
It gives one the opportunity to defer updates until others have tested them. If any problems appear on initial release they get fixed. So, OP has a problem. I have a solution.

One would think that would have been like obvious, I guess not though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bill5 View Post
Yeah if only he had a great attitude like you
If you haven't seen his posting to date then I'll just inform you that typically his posts are very long and he rarely if ever responds to people. It's like he's blogging. Even when he says things that are wrong and counterproductive he ignores when he's corrected.

It's been two days. Has he been back? What's the over under on that happening?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bill5 View Post
Something tells me your post is just an excuse to piss down someone's back for no particular reason. Did this guy call your mommy a bad name or something?
Thanks for inserting yourself into this. Now it's all about you.
Old 17th February 2020
  #16
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mattiasnyc View Post

It's incredibly easy to defer upgrades for a year and security updates for a month.
The steps are permanent disable. Not for just a year or a month.

Is this mic on?

Pete's steps (from three days ago on the steps thread) permanently disable all updates....forever.


Reversible any time you want.

Why is this topic still coming up?

This is like y2k or boycott rambus redux stuff.
Old 17th February 2020
  #17
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Quetz's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by thenoodle View Post

Is this mic on?
Old 17th February 2020
  #18
Gear Guru
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by thenoodle View Post
The steps are permanent disable. Not for just a year or a month.

Is this mic on?

Pete's steps (from three days ago on the steps thread) permanently disable all updates....forever.


Reversible any time you want.
Yes, I'm aware of that. One doesn't exclude the other.

All I'm pointing out is that it's incredibly easy to get to the point where it's no longer a big deal and where updates won't bug you "whenever". No need to think about group policies or anything like that. That was my point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thenoodle View Post
Why is this topic still coming up?
I have no idea. Again, my point is that the topic really shouldn't come up seeing that at least deferring is easy.
Old 17th February 2020
  #19
Lives for gear
 

I ran the DAW all weekend and never had the slightest glitch. You cant imagine how much of a relief it is not to have to constantly restart the DAW program or computer just to get a song recorded.

I did clone the drive too. I can simply swap drives or make a copy of it if an when needed.

Quote:
Why don't you guys just use Windows 8.1 instead of Windows 7? It has extended support until 2023.
Win 8 was Microsoft's attempt to turn windows into a cell phone app. I don't have a copy of it and the times I've had to use it I used a 3d party app that gives you a standard windows menu and gets rid of the cruddy apps. Its bad enough MS bloats their operating systems, its worse when they don't give you the option of dumping all that crap. There's a reason for it too. You got a bunch of young millennials working in that industry who know if they made it easy to dump all that crap, most people with any intelligence would to save on CPU and memory. This makes their jobs designing all that bloatware even less relevant.

I'm not w9orred about support either. Once the system is running I have no need of support.

Quote:
We may be in the same line of work although I wouldn't call myself an electronics tech. More electro/mechanical with sufficient electronics knowledge to troubleshoot. PCBs go of to a repair facility.
That's the way of most electronics now. I was trained to repair to component level in both analog and digital. I actually enjoyed doing that for a number of years before manufacturers changed how they did business. The idea actually began in the 60's when companies like RCA made TV's that had what was called "Works in a Drawer". Technicians could simply plug in a new board much like they do for Computers. Now everything is that way. The whole board cost less then it takes to pay a tech to troubleshoot and repair it. Now you simply plug in a computer and it tells you what chip to replace.

Quote:
Neither windows 10 home or pro has ever really evolved to being a true professional platform. There is just too much of a “live” element, and workstations in my experience always are more stable in a closed environment. Too many services that run constantly without tinkering and too much bloat. To be fair macOS hasn’t been much better in this regard as of late.
I use it at work all day long and properly set up by an IT department behind a firewall its as good as any other system I suppose. The updates and how much of it can be "Touched" is carefully managed so it seems to be quite stable.

I run it on 3 computers at home including a high end workstation (17" laptop) and its running very well.

I suppose the hardware and software are part of that formula too. I'm still running Sonar X1 and haven't had a reason to upgrade it.
I can get their latest version but that's only for 64 bit and given its a China based company Band Lab who owns it now and I'm leery about trusting them. Nobody does anything for free if they don't have some way of cashing in on what they give you.
Old 17th February 2020
  #20
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by wrgkmc View Post
...
I suppose the hardware and software are part of that formula too. I'm still running Sonar X1 and haven't had a reason to upgrade it.
I can get their latest version but that's only for 64 bit and given its a China based company Band Lab who owns it now and I'm leery about trusting them. Nobody does anything for free if they don't have some way of cashing in on what they give you.
BandLab is based in Singapore.
[ https://vulcanpost.com/589375/bandla...-need-to-know/ ]

Facebook and Google, and Instagram...etc. should be equally in your sights.
Old 17th February 2020
  #21
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattiasnyc View Post
It gives one the opportunity to defer updates until others have tested them. If any problems appear on initial release they get fixed. So, OP has a problem. I have a solution.
Deferring a problem isn't a solution FYI.

Quote:
One would think that would have been like obvious, I guess not though.
Since it's wrong, no not really.

Quote:
If you haven't seen his posting to date then I'll just inform you that typically his posts are very long and he rarely if ever responds to people. It's like he's blogging. Even when he says things that are wrong and counterproductive he ignores when he's corrected.
If the way he posts is so upsetting, don't read them. lol @ pissing down his back (something I have never seen him do to anyone - even when they have it coming) then calling HIM "counter-productive." Glass houses and all that dude. If he bothers you that much, why not do what I'm about to with you and put him on your ignore list?

Quote:
It's been two days. Has he been back? What's the over under on that happening?
Wow two whole days. I dunno, maybe he has a life? Or maybe he wisely realized you weren't worth responding to, which I confess I should have done right off the bat...

Quote:
Thanks for inserting yourself into this. Now it's all about you.
That doesn't even make any sense. Not that I'm surprised. This has nothing to do with me and everything to do with you spitting on someone because he has the gall not to post according to your little posting bible. Classy.

Done wasting keystrokes on you and apologies to everyone else for the pointless sidetrack.
Old 17th February 2020
  #22
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by wrgkmc View Post
I ran the DAW all weekend and never had the slightest glitch. You cant imagine how much of a relief it is not to have to constantly restart the DAW program or computer just to get a song recorded.
Hey...according to our resident posting expert, you never reply, so obviously someone obviously stole your password, better change it ASAP!
Old 17th February 2020
  #23
Gear Guru
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bill5 View Post
Deferring a problem isn't a solution FYI.
That's not what I wrote and you clearly are missing the point of it.

There have been updates that had problems on release but were fixed within say 2-10 days. By deferring updates you solve the problem if your problem is getting an update with such a problem... because it gets fixed before you update... Give it another week or two and risks drop even further.
Old 17th February 2020
  #24
Gear Guru
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bill5 View Post
Hey...according to our resident posting expert, you never reply, so obviously someone obviously stole your password, better change it ASAP!
I wrote "hardly if ever". Don't be a prick and ascribe things to me that I didn't say. I'll put you on ignore so we don't have to go back and forth further.
Old 17th February 2020
  #25
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by thenoodle View Post
The steps are permanent disable. Not for just a year or a month.

Is this mic on?

Pete's steps (from three days ago on the steps thread) permanently disable all updates....forever.


Reversible any time you want.

Why is this topic still coming up?
Because that only works (supposedly) for the Pro version? You can't disable them permanently in the Home version.
Old 17th February 2020
  #26
Lives for gear
 

Coming from Win 7 about 2 weeks ago, Win 10 is just as stable and in some ways feels snappier than 7. I loved Win 7 too and was afraid to move forward but I wanted thunderbolt support so it was time.
Old 18th February 2020
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bill5 View Post
You can't disable them permanently in the Home version.
You want windows 10 updates to be permanently disabled. Therefore, you are on Pro so that you can do that.
Old 18th February 2020
  #28
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by wrgkmc View Post
Anyone else besides me being driven crazy by the constant upgrades to Win 10? ... its a bunch of crap ... I gave up a few weeks ago ... I got tired [sic] or waiting ... Microsoft jacking with things ... The tinkering MS has done ... Its too bad Win 10 has become so bloated with crap ... I spend more time preventing 10 from making changes ... they want you to constantly upgrade to new technology ... How many more times will they reinvent the OS menus ... I'm tired of having to find ... That kind of stuff is irritating ... When they jack with stuff that screws up performance
Need some cheese with that whine?
Old 18th February 2020
  #29
Lives for gear
Maybe a computer literacy course may help?

I don't mean to be rude, but I couldn't help myself from laughing at how silly this is. Are you aware that Windows is a general OS, designed for the lowest hanging fruit, i.e. the masses?

What that means is, for it to function efficiently as an audio production OS, you need to tweak/optimise it (which you can do). There are tons of videos and in depth how-tos on how to do this. Give it a try.

Updates, and update periods can be customised. What your computer does shortly before it updates can also be customised. Are you aware of this?

Do you know what maintenance is, and why it is important? For example, in olden days (or on any HDD) we had to use disk defragmentation to maintain optimal, efficient performance of our disks. With SSDs, you no longer have to do this. Well, a PC needs maintenance work too. Do you know how people have routine/scheduled maintenance of their houses/vehicles and businesses? It's the same thing. Make a schedule to perform maintenance on your system especially if it's connected to the Internet and you download a lot of things (you're definitely connected to the Internet). Create a day where you perform maintenance tasks. It really isn't hard. It'll take a 30mins at most (if you have to apply updates). In fact, you can create a schedule where updates download when you're not using your PC (like the wee hrs of the morning, or day...). In fact, you should probably keep your audio workstation disconnected from the Internet, until you have to do maintenance (updating OS / Software, etc).Don't forget the physical machine - open it, clean it, get rid of the dust, wipe down your work area... It helps keep the place clean, and a clean PC interior helps with better airflow, which translates to longer life and better performance of some components.

Also, it'll be a good idea to have back ups/clones of your entire OS drive, in case something goes wrong. Creating disk images will also be a part of maintenance. So, when something does go wrong, you don't have spend hours reinstalling everything, or running to Windows 7 and complaining about things you can actually resolve.

You see, Windows (like I said earlier), isn't for audio production by default. It isn't for graphic design by default. It also isn't for gaming, by default. It's for a balance of all those things (and dozens of other things), by default. To make it a specialised OS, you have to tweak it. Microsoft doesn't make an OS for audio production. Neither does Apple. So, you b!tching and complaining is really only a display of your own ignorance.
Old 18th February 2020
  #30
Lives for gear
@ VenVile .

After many years as a PC user I agree with everything you said...except...Maybe you don't realize that you're telling everyone they need to protect themselves from Window itself? True...but sad.
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