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subtractive eq'ing adding 2 decibels : s
Old 19th January 2020
  #1
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subtractive eq'ing adding 2 decibels : s

Hey guys, first post here on gearslutz. Have always found some of the forums here quite helpful so thought I'd finally make an account of my own and join in.
I'm producing a techno track on Logic Pro Xand have put some subtractive eq'ing on my open hihats. I'm quite perplexed though because its actually added 2 decibels in volume on the peak meter. I've also tried reading it on my vu meter. I seem to recall that each plug in should bring its own warmth and added volume into the mix but 2 decibels seems like quite a lot.
Just to clarify, am I right about the whole added warmth of a plug in thing or is that only in the analog domain? Bit of a newbie so appreciate any info
Old 19th January 2020
  #2
Here for the gear
 

actually want to add to this and say, I remetered it and its only the peak meter that has been added to. Its getting slightly quieter on the vu meter, as I understand though a vu meter isn't entirely ideal for transient sounds
Old 19th January 2020
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rednaxela View Post
Hey guys, first post here on gearslutz. Have always found some of the forums here quite helpful so thought I'd finally make an account of my own and join in.
I'm producing a techno track on Logic Pro Xand have put some subtractive eq'ing on my open hihats. I'm quite perplexed though because its actually added 2 decibels in volume on the peak meter. I've also tried reading it on my vu meter. I seem to recall that each plug in should bring its own warmth and added volume into the mix but 2 decibels seems like quite a lot.
Just to clarify, am I right about the whole added warmth of a plug in thing or is that only in the analog domain? Bit of a newbie so appreciate any info
What frequency did you subtract and vow many decibels? Maybe it opened up some room ub the track. I don't think I even really get what your saying or asking.
Old 19th January 2020
  #4
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I see this time and time again and it surprises me nobody grasps this.im assuming the plugin is minimum phase yes?what you are seeing is phase rotation.when you cut and or boost with any minimum phase EQ it creates phase distortions.essentially what is happening is the peaks are being shifted locally at either side of that frequency in time(on a fractional level.not something you could actually perceive as an actual time shift).this causes the signal to peak higher than it did.same reason as to why when you a use highpass filter that aren't linear phase on hi hats that have sub harmonic garbage you will see the same thing happen or any signal that extends down to DC e.g acoustic kicks(especially with highpass filters because they introduce quite a lot of group delay and phase rotation depending on the corner frequency,slope etc)the same thing happens with minimum phase oversampling for the same reasons.its also why that idea of removing frequencies to gain headroom is not so black and white .

My bad i didn't see the bit about you being a newb.that explanation might be a bit beyond you to grasp currently,but to cut it down to size.what you see is never what you get in audio.there's always a caveat and in this case its phase.the signal is not actually louder as you have probably noticed.it just registers on the meters

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase_(waves) the section about "Phase Shift"explains the phenomena,but not in relation to EQ's
Old 19th January 2020
  #5
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Idontcare View Post
I see this time and time again and it surprises me nobody grasps this.im assuming the plugin is minimum phase yes?what you are seeing is phase rotation.when you cut and or boost with any minimum phase EQ it creates phase distortions.essentially what is happening is the peaks are being shifted locally at either side of that frequency in time(on a fractional level.not something you could actually perceive as an actual time shift).this causes the signal to peak higher than it did.same reason as to why when you a use highpass filter that aren't linear phase on hi hats that have sub harmonic garbage you will see the same thing happen or any signal that extends down to DC e.g acoustic kicks(especially with highpass filters because they introduce quite a lot of group delay and phase rotation depending on the corner frequency,slope etc)the same thing happens with minimum phase oversampling for the same reasons.its also why that idea of removing frequencies to gain headroom is not so black and white .

My bad i didn't see the bit about you being a newb.that explanation might be a bit beyond you to grasp currently,but to cut it down to size.what you see is never what you get in audio.there's always a caveat and in this case its phase.the signal is not actually louder as you have probably noticed.it just registers on the meters

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase_(waves) the section about "Phase Shift"explains the phenomena,but not in relation to EQ's
Hey man. Thanks for the explanation!

I'm trying to wrap my head around that!

To be honest, I've never heard of minimum phase EQ'ing. I'm just using the stock Logic Pro X Channel EQ. It's not necessarily a bad thing to use these sorts of EQ though right? Especially if I've only encountered this now on an open hihat. So what I think you're saying is that my EQ adjustment has caused some of the different frequency waves on either side of the adjustment to shift and be in positive phase with each other? Sorry if I'm way off! I did a couple of months at an audio school a while ago, but for the most part unlearned and rusty so if my terminology is off then forgive me!!
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