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Universal Audio Announces All-New LUNA Recording System
Old 20th January 2020
  #2731
Gear Head
 

4. Integrated VI tracking workflow. No more routing Vis in your DAW to Virtual Channels for processing, this is all done for you in Luna’s mixer.

Does it mean that as there is no Virtual Channels anymore, it won't take sharc power for those?
In Console, the more you pair your chips, the less you have Virtual channels available so this would free sharc powers somehow?
Old 20th January 2020
  #2732
Manufacturer
 
Universal Audio's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by scatter_brain View Post
4. Integrated VI tracking workflow. No more routing Vis in your DAW to Virtual Channels for processing, this is all done for you in Luna’s mixer.

Does it mean that as there is no Virtual Channels anymore, it won't take sharc power for those?
In Console, the more you pair your chips, the less you have Virtual channels available so this would free sharc powers somehow?
They still exist because Console still exists AND LUNA used them in the background.

And they don't use DSP, they are for routing within the device/driver.
Old 20th January 2020
  #2733
Gear Head
 

Ok so I'm not gonna complain about Luna and if it may or may not be a good DAW. I'm just a little disappointed by the hype UA created as if this were going to change the industry... I was looking for a physical summing box or mixer maybe that integrated with UAD plugins. And the other question is will these be $299 extensions which is insane for a native plug in when we all purchased UAD for just the opposite. Again, UAD has never disappointed in the past, but this hype worked to get our attention but generally fell flat in terms of what we expected as industry changing.. I wont ditch my apollo for this or my other DAWs but it is cool how it integrates with Apollo in general. Give away the Damn Neve summing and you will get your fans buy in. Thats my opinion so please don't go bashing me slutz!! Now back to my apollo x6 and making music.
Old 20th January 2020
  #2734
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Universal Audio View Post
They still exist because Console still exists AND LUNA used them in the background.

And they don't use DSP, they are for routing within the device/driver.
hummm, I'm confused.
Why the number of virtual channels changes according to the dsp pairing then?

As a use case, I want to import a few tracks, no processing required, just have them play and sent
to their own cue for different mix. is this possible in LUNA with an unlimited number of tracks and without taxing the DSP?
Old 20th January 2020
  #2735
Manufacturer
 
Universal Audio's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by scatter_brain View Post
hummm, I'm confused.
Why the number of virtual channels changes according to the dsp pairing then?

As a use case, I want to import a few tracks, no processing required, just have them play and sent
to their own cue for different mix. is this possible in LUNA with an unlimited number of tracks and without taxing the DSP?
1. Because DSP Pairing is using VCs to connect DSP chips. So when you lean towards pairs, chips are allocated for them. Make sense?

2. DSP will be used for the low latency paths needed to create the Cue.

Hope this helps.
Old 20th January 2020
  #2736
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Universal Audio View Post
1. Because DSP Pairing is using VCs to connect DSP chips. So when you lean towards pairs, chips are allocated for them. Make sense?

2. DSP will be used for the low latency paths needed to create the Cue.

Hope this helps.
1. I see, I had no idea dsp pairing was using VCs in the background, makes sense then.

2. Ok. Then I'll have to wait & see when Luna is out. It should definitely simplify the recording process anyway!
Old 20th January 2020
  #2737
Quote:
Originally Posted by dcoopermusic View Post
Ok so I'm not gonna complain about Luna and if it may or may not be a good DAW. I'm just a little disappointed by the hype UA created as if this were going to change the industry... I was looking for a physical summing box or mixer maybe that integrated with UAD plugins. And the other question is will these be $299 extensions which is insane for a native plug in when we all purchased UAD for just the opposite. Again, UAD has never disappointed in the past, but this hype worked to get our attention but generally fell flat in terms of what we expected as industry changing.. I wont ditch my apollo for this or my other DAWs but it is cool how it integrates with Apollo in general. Give away the Damn Neve summing and you will get your fans buy in. Thats my opinion so please don't go bashing me slutz!! Now back to my apollo x6 and making music.
I see this whole thing as laying the groundwork for something that is “industry changing“ in the sense that Avid will (I hope!) eventually have real competition. I guess we will find out one way or another. Maybe UA will fail miserably. Maybe they won’t. Perhaps they will succeed. But I see a first step in that direction.
Old 20th January 2020
  #2738
Gear Addict
interestingly, all the hype about luna...

was not created by UA

they simply put up a few teaser videos and some banner ads.

"tune in to hear the future"

the hype was mostly generated, as it often is, by everyone else.
Old 20th January 2020
  #2739
Quote:
Originally Posted by Universal Audio View Post
From users that don't have an Apollo or Arrow yes.
Can users just use the iLok account method like soundtoys and so many others or are you actually saying people will need to get a physical iLok to use the extensions?

In that case a user could still use Luna without a USB iLok just not extensions?

Really hoping UA can simply code security into their plugins instead of putting that burden on their customers. I’d assume some conditional code could be written that can check if an Apollo is connected perhaps?
Old 20th January 2020
  #2740
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurt B View Post
It's really a shame how many get upset here.

UA has released a free DAW for users of their interfaces.

Not for everyone. They give this software to people who are already satisfied with their products or want to try them to see if they work for them.

UA has interfaces for home recorders and for professional studios. Everyone gets the same DAW for free. Is this not great?

To date, the UA Console has been the only serious alternative to an AVID HD system.

Do you even know what it will cost if you want to get anywhere near what Luna offers in combination with Apollo? Avid HD would be the answer.

Go to Reverb and buy 32 channels of I / O from UA and you will get the HD version of your DAW for free. It won't cost you 3000 bucks for 2 used Apollo 16 Blackface. With it you can record, mix and master - what more do you need?

And then see what you pay from AVID for the same setup, but don't forget to calculate the rent for the HD software.

Of course, if you just look at the instruments and toys that are there, you don't have to worry about such things.
Then you can continue to slide your finger over the tablet and play around with your Cubasis.

If all the CPU experts here were only half as good recording engineers, they would all be millionaires.

This childish posture with the Windows support thing.
As if UA had not yet delivered Windows support for all products. Why should it be different now?
Didn't any of you ever have to wait longer than someone else? Have you always been the first everywhere? Always the first in line? And if you got nothing yelling for mom? My goodness.
Someone who paid a lot of money for a uad interface and can't use Luna has every right to be mad.
Old 20th January 2020
  #2741
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by thatizright View Post
Someone who paid a lot of money for a uad interface and can't use Luna has every right to be mad.
There is quite likely a technical reason for being linked to Thunderbolt. Or perhaps they just focused development on one bus to speed the release. And I don’t think you have a right to be mad about something that was never promised in the first place. Disappointed yes. But you still have what you paid for.
Old 20th January 2020
  #2742
Lives for gear
 
Inca's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Universal Audio View Post
Thanks shelbyanna!!

We're gonna do our best!
Thanks UA for making outstanding hardware and really understanding how to create an amazing eco system for creating. I cannot wait to get my hands on LUNA and see how it progresses. If I could ditch PT permanently, I would be so happy to do it all in LUNA.

Onward and upward we go!
Old 20th January 2020
  #2743
Quote:
Originally Posted by Universal Audio View Post
1. Final pricing for LUNA Extensions and LUNA Instruments will be announced soon.

2. All LUNA Extensions and LUNA Instruments are exclusive to LUNA and will not
Luna instruments that cost $ not be available for use in other DAWs seems like a poor idea to me.
Old 20th January 2020
  #2744
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMagician View Post
Luna instruments that cost $ not be available for use in other DAWs seems like a poor idea to me.
You can't use their plugins without a hardware either, it seems like it works quite well for them.

They intend to bring people to their hardware by proposing really good VIs (I don't know if they are really good but it's certainly how they'll sell it)

Even if Luna seems a great improvement over the Console+DAW flow, I hope the improvements below are on their todo list:

- have more DSP chips/input or
faster chips (2 chips/input or 1 faster chip/input)
- reduce the latency of their mkii plugins to 0 like the legacy ones or at least divide by 2.
- reduce their apollo interface default latency with better drivers

Oxide, neve summing and the other tape are native though. It begs to wonder how long they'll keep using DSP in their hardware and if buying extra apollo or satellites is a good idea...
Old 20th January 2020
  #2745
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by thatizright View Post
Someone who paid a lot of money for a uad interface and can't use Luna has every right to be mad.
so someone who bought an interface that they wanted....should now be mad that they can't immediately use a piece of free software that they didn't even know existed...until 3 days ago ?

interesting.

i'm sure they will have pc support. the apollo console and uad plugins work on pc/windows, i see no reason why they won't eventually get to a pc version.

the mac version isn't even released yet. they simply stated it will be for mac only...initially.
Old 20th January 2020
  #2746
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inca View Post
Thanks UA for making outstanding hardware and really understanding how to create an amazing eco system for creating. I cannot wait to get my hands on LUNA and see how it progresses. If I could ditch PT permanently, I would be so happy to do it all in LUNA.

Onward and upward we go!
i totally agree with all of this.

i can't wait to check it out and i hope it works the way i believe it will.

i am a die hard analog guy. i was on tape and consoles until i just couldn't afford to do that anymore, up to around 2008 or so when i started using radar and protools

the apollo system is amazing, and i have loved having all that power in a few interfaces and a laptop. it makes the music making process easier and more productive. the uad plugins are the first to finally get me away from hardware. i still use some pieces, but the plugins are so good now.

i honestly can't tell the difference between a distressor and the plugin version. the other plugs are amazing too.

this LUNA system appears to solve the only issues i had with using apollo and console to track live bands. the latency will hopefully be low enough that i can work in the apollo system completely and that is great.

i'm ready...bring it on.
Old 20th January 2020
  #2747
Lives for gear
 
TAFKAT's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Universal Audio View Post
From users that don't have an Apollo or Arrow yes.
I'm lost, if Luna will not run without a compatible Apollo or Arrow, who exactly are you referring to that will require an iLok if the VI's will not run on normal native environments ?

Last edited by TAFKAT; 20th January 2020 at 08:23 AM.. Reason: Amended typo*
Old 20th January 2020
  #2748
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TAFKAT View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Universal Audio View Post
From users that don't have an Apollo or Arrow yes.
I'm lost, if Luna will not run without a compatible Apollo of Arrow, who exactly are you referring to that will require an iLok if the VI's will not run on normal native environments ?
Yeah, his answer didn't make sense to me either. The VI's are to be installed natively on the mac, outside of Luna, but won't actually load into anything but Luna, and Luna won't load unless there's an Apollo etc dongle......so yeah....wtf does ilok enter into any equation?

Last edited by thenoodle; 20th January 2020 at 06:26 AM..
Old 20th January 2020
  #2749
Lives for gear
 

I do look forward to the SOS review this July for some cohesive conclusions.
Old 20th January 2020
  #2750
Here for the gear
 

Luna tracking with busses question

Sorry if this is already buried in the 1000’s of posts already, but can someone answer me this:

Can you confirm that there is a low latency path (32ms or less) for:

1) sending live recording multi tracks through a bus with UA plugs in real-time?
2) sending all tracks (including the live drum bus) to a main bus with more UA plugs while tracking?

This is one of the biggest things I have missed about working on an analog console is having some default bus compression while tracking. I end up using way less individual track compressors and start to hear how everything fits together much earlier in the process.

Assuming there has to be some limits here, but a typical chain I would love to have with UA plugs in real time would be:

Unison pre>UAD EQ 1>UAD Compressor>UAD UAD EQ 2>Tape Emu>Drum Summing Bus>Drum Bus Limiter>Main Summing Bus>Main Bus Limiter>Headphones

This seems like a long chain for low latency. Is there a line with what will work in real time...or is this actually somehow possible in Luna?
Old 20th January 2020
  #2751
Gear Maniac
 

Interesting online feedback-

"I actually see them losing alot of customers with this release. More options, yet less power from the hardware. And to remain relevant you'd have to continue to buy into the future hardware to power the plugins?
Have they released the plugin cpu consumption chart count yet for the new stuff?"

"Mac only? what a joke*looks very nice. good thing I can transform my DAW in this. Lol"
"Reinventing the wheel...It'll be 5+ years before Luna is anywhere close to the full feature set of top-tier existing DAW applications.
Mac only? Seriously?! That's just incredibly short-sighted.

UA is using their same "unison" technology.
As was mentioned above, there's no such thing as zero-latency.
With "unison", you can run UAD plugins at ~2ms round-trip latency (which is great).
Of course, you can do this with an Apollo and any DAW application (albeit slightly less integrated).

With Presonus Quantum and a fast machine, you can run sub 2ms round-trip latency with any (non-latent) plugin."
"Avid and UA are still living under a rock, no doubt about it."
"So, it's gonna be free for Thunderbolt Apollo and Arrow users on Mac, but the Neve and Tape summing that they brag about will be sold seperately (around 300 bucks apparently).*
Most of the instruments are sold seperately and can only be used inside Luna, and iLok is also required, next to your TB card being hooked on*

The low-latency part of Luna apparently doesn't function when you also have a UAD dsp card hooked up (pcie or satellite)*

Luna only supports AU plug-ins, and it only has 4 insert slots and 2 auxes*

You still have to use the DSP for all UAD plug-ins, Luna only works natively with the summing, instruments, and daw engine. So DSP will run out just as fast as usual.*

There's no ETA on Windows support and/or vst support, no word from UA about that.*

I think UA really lost it. Come on UA, it's 2020, not 2002. And that's coming from a long time UAD user."
"I am a UAD user. Have been probably for the past 15 years (when the UAD-1 was branded as a Mackie card). There are many things I don't like about it, but many things I do like (like their 1176 and the LA-2A's etc...). I am not like many uad users under the incorrect impression that they are still quality wise miles ahead of native options.
The Luna is not for me...I can't possibly see where it would help my workflow.
The world did not need another DAW. It is more work for Developers to have to deal with yet another DAW with its own idiosyncrasies.
It is also taking away development time for UA itself (from making more plugins, mk2 upgrades and for christ sake finally fixing their stupid installer (so you can choose what you want to install my #1 gripe with UAD), or making it a hybrid system where the dsp tasks can be shared by both their dsp chips and native), unless they hired a new set of people to do LUNA stuff exclusively.
To announce it before a Windows version can be mentioned is also ridiculous.

However I am not sure why this would make me stop using UAD-2 stuff. I will just ignore it for the most part and continue what I have to do. I am curious why you think it will make them lost customers."
"UAD has a problem in that they are releasing all these guitar effect modeling plugs that need little latency and possibly wanting to get into the vsti market all while trapped in a high latency system.

Their solution is to develop their own ecosystem. I guess that could solve their latency problem but it will be many years if ever before they catch up to the big boys in the DAW world as pointed out by numerous posters.

Most likely in the meantime LUNA will be used for tracking by folks and then exported elsewhere for more complex stuff. Whether it’s worth the added aggravation of more layers of software remains to be seen."
*
Old 20th January 2020
  #2752
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phinney333 View Post
Sorry if this is already buried in the 1000’s of posts already, but can someone answer me this:

Can you confirm that there is a low latency path (32ms or less) for:

1) sending live recording multi tracks through a bus with UA plugs in real-time?
2) sending all tracks (including the live drum bus) to a main bus with more UA plugs while tracking?

This is one of the biggest things I have missed about working on an analog console is having some default bus compression while tracking. I end up using way less individual track compressors and start to hear how everything fits together much earlier in the process.

Assuming there has to be some limits here, but a typical chain I would love to have with UA plugs in real time would be:

Unison pre>UAD EQ 1>UAD Compressor>UAD UAD EQ 2>Tape Emu>Drum Summing Bus>Drum Bus Limiter>Main Summing Bus>Main Bus Limiter>Headphones

This seems like a long chain for low latency. Is there a line with what will work in real time...or is this actually somehow possible in Luna?
Nobody can confirm anything about Luna. It's not released into anyone's hands yet.

Everyone can yap....but no one can confirm. Even from UA....cuz whatever they say today, may change by release....
Old 20th January 2020
  #2753
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
Video doesn't play
I just put it as a link. I'll try adding it in the post. Here you go...

Old 20th January 2020
  #2754
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boogerface View Post
That’s too bad man. At least it’s a monitor. Not a total loss.

But the Console 1 adopted UAD plugins. UAD probably got the hint.

UAD has all sorts of lesser plugs they give away with hardware. Why not just build them into a DAW that works knob per function with a nice hardware controller?

Looking at the vids on Insta, it seems they’re implying something broad — encompassing.

EVERYTHING changes.

Well, if Presonus can hit a home run, I think UAD can.

My guess is a hardware DAW package that hosts plugs seamlessly. Perhaps no converters but maybe a Dante or ethernet bus for monitoring.

Something like this.
UAD has the plugins, but Presonus has everything else. They just got 8 or 9 awards at NAMN Lol. Anyway Luna seems very interesting.
Old 20th January 2020
  #2755
Quote:
Originally Posted by thatizright View Post
UAD has the plugins, but Presonus has everything else. They just got 8 or 9 awards at NAMN Lol. Anyway Luna seems very interesting.
You're forgetting how Presonus started. As a very simple basic DAW that was given away for free with Presonus interfaces. Technology is always evolving. I don't see one DAW overtaking them all. There will just be many DAWs co-existing to suit the users workflow and some people will prefer some to others. They all seem to take ideas from each other so the more DAWs with innovative ideas the more it pushes existing DAWs and companies to innovate.
Old 20th January 2020
  #2756
For those who want the closest experience to walking into the Namm booth (if you didn't get the chance), I filmed the experience and asked most of the questions that were asked on here (before you asked them) lol.





https://currentsound.com/general/uni...ssions-review/

Also the guy from the video is super nice and bought me a beer at the bar after the conference on the weekend, a couple of days after I shot the video. They seem genuinely interested in making something cool and unique. Given that the biggest issue with most DAWs is not listening to their users and not innovating, I have a feeling Luna might end up becoming a big thing because the UAD guys seem to have a good attitude when it comes to being innovative. He said a few times, all they really want for now is just for people to try it. They are obviously going to add more features as time goes on.
Old 20th January 2020
  #2757
Gear Nut
 

LUNA will travel boldly where no one has gone before. Some say boldly before 2003, but I can't confirm that. She will take you safely through the snow-flake universe and solar systems that are being patrolled and policed by the politically correct alliance, where opposing opinions are shut down, with Phasers set to mute.

The ship has all the necessary 70s tech that one needs for safe passage, as you can see in the pictures. It has computers running on analog tape, a console with many knobs and buttons, even Windows looking out. More Windows are to be added in the future. The only thing that's missing is fur and shag-carpet someone's pissed on, like in many real studios. Boomers will remember! Yes, the same people that some of the young Ferengi attack and make fun of, despite the fact that they've made space travel possible in the first place.

LUNA can travel at the speed of light as advertised, as long as you keep the cargo light. She'll save your life if you ever get attacked by the Klingon Armada who de-cloak at the mention of monthly subscriptions, Avid, Acoustica, etc.Or as they like to say: "Hab SoSlI' Quch! which translated means,those who don't want to pay $399 for a single plugin but like to pay $149 annually for many have smooth foreheads." Whatever that means!

Just remember, not to plug in 5 or 6 heavy-duty computers into the sockets before you jump to light speed. It will automatically disable your shields, which need over 5 ms to comeback up. Enough for Klingon blasters and photon torpedoes to reach their target. And since there is no manual buffer override, you won't be able to activate the shields in time.

She's faster and better than USS Protoolis, USS Cubaseca, as well as USS Logic. The Borg fear her, Khan hates her and no one has told Jeff Rosica yet.

C'mon, guys, this thread has turned into a dark comedy and whine-fest of epic proportions. UA has released a new product and for all who will be using it, awesome and congrats!For those who won't, look at the bright side, this will make the devs of your favorite DAW be more creative. I personally can't wait what what the next Cubase Pro release will bring.

Live long and prosper!
Old 20th January 2020
  #2758
Lives for gear
 
Firechild's Avatar
If they can add beat detective from pro tools and solve the aux thing ( My default pro tools session has 24 reverb sends) I am in, as long AVID doesnt come up with a new killer HDX mk2 card with 10 times more power than the current one and support for MPE.
From my point of view LUNA is GREAT, it will give Apollo users even more for the money and also put some pressure on the AVID guys.

Last edited by Firechild; 20th January 2020 at 09:33 AM..
Old 20th January 2020
  #2759
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quint View Post
Console does, and always has, run on a FPGA. I'm not sure about the older Apollos, but I believe I had heard that the X series of Apollos have a newer FPGA. The point is that Luna never would have competed with plugins for DSP resources anyway. So I think you're mistaken on that being a concern.

Either way, since Console is already on the FPGA, and Luna is built on the back of Console, it may have been possible, from a headroom standpoint, to run Luna on the FPGA and they chose to run it native anyway.

I suspect the reason it runs natively has a lot to do with latency concerns for VIs as well as inadequate DSP resources to allow most people to run the new tape and console extensions.

HDX is quite different in that it neatly scales thanks to physical hardware connections between DSP cards. All of the FPGAs and DSP work inclusively of each other to form the mix engine architecture and plugin DSP. Luna probably has to be native due to UAD devices working a little more independently from each other. Especially the interfaces and PCIe/Satellite units that really only interconnect to each other through the native system.

From what I understood, the tape and console extensions run natively?
Old 20th January 2020
  #2760
Gear Head
 
yorgos's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by thenoodle View Post
Yeah, his answer didn't make sense to me either. The VI's are to be installed natively on the mac, outside of Luna, but won't actually load into anything but Luna, and Luna won't load unless there's an Apollo etc dongle......so yeah....wtf does ilok enter into any equation?
People that don't have an Apollo (or Arrow) and Luna can't use them anyway. On the other hand people that do have Luna could use them without buying them. I guess that's where iLok is needed for.
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