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Avid Pro Tools ... !?
Old 5th November 2019
  #61
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chipss36's Avatar
 

How many free plugins has protools gave out this year?
How many industry standard upgrades have they done with the new “pay to play” scam?

Studio one has done both major meaningful updates, and gave out some pretty decent plugins just this year.

With zero yearly fees...
Good job avid, you do however need more online trolls to make people believe what you are doing is ok....
It’s in fact not!
Old 5th November 2019
  #62
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IM WHO YOU THINK's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanC View Post
Yeah, for me the full list if I'm going to think of everything I want and even kinda want would be-

-stability and bugs
-midi playlists
-breakpoint automation for midi and automation clips
-automation exponential bending tools
-ara2
-folders
-support for hardware/plugin track selection and enumeration (komplete kontrol, maschine, TC stuff, Console1 etc)
-drum grid/mode for midi
-better articulation selection management in midi.
-sidechain delay comp and multich sidechain
-MPE support (if I'm dreaming)
-a double host buffer for VI's
-improve elastic audio, better sounding, and fix warping with grouped tracks
-custom plugin mapping in eucontrol
-lyrics, sure why not.
-elastic midi (getting far down the list here)

Maybe it would be nice to have some different GUI options...how much more do PT music people want? I think for sure it would be more then just *nice* to have them checking at least some of these things off.

Avid said they wanted the opportunity to prove to us that the subscriptions were worth it...
This is a good list. For drum grid mode, I'd like to see something that lets you drag in or select a sample, then tap a pad to trigger the placement of the sample along the time line with no midi.
Old 5th November 2019
  #63
Here for the gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by crille_mannen View Post
I haven't really seen any OMG features since 12.4 or something when they implemented freeze and commit. For that yearly sub price it should have been a stable implements of new top-requested features every year. Avid could have just worked their way through the list keeping people happy. It's really a joke...

The only thing i'm missing is folder tracks.
Yes, folder tracks PLEASE !
Old 3rd December 2019
  #64
Gear Maniac
 
DJKeys's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by chipss36 View Post
How many free plugins has protools gave out this year?
How many industry standard upgrades have they done with the new “pay to play” scam?

Studio one has done both major meaningful updates, and gave out some pretty decent plugins just this year.

With zero yearly fees...
Good job avid, you do however need more online trolls to make people believe what you are doing is ok....
It’s in fact not!
Yep, had PT since 2011, Avid wants $199 to keep my perpetual copy "updated" double the price of the last couple of years. Or move to a subscription (no, thank you). Expires in 13 days and letting it go. Downloaded Studio one on their special Black Friday deal and have been working with it for a few days. For my needs, S1 does everything I need, no annual fees, good VIs (including a cool sampler) Free Melodyne license, not looking back at PT-

-dj
Old 4th December 2019
  #65
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d.dot's Avatar
 

Avid has a Pricing Demystified page. After reading it, I'm still confused. I guess I'm a bit dense. I have a monthly vanilla sub I pay about $30 for. I'd like to cancel my sub upon wrapping up these last couple of mixes. If in the future I need to re-sub, do I have to pay a penalty or "re-instatement" fee as they call it?

I still have a PT12 license on my iLok. Am I still able to use that if I need to access old sessions?

I'd like to try S1 or Reaper. Not sure if I'm switching to anything though. I'm a long-time Logic user and will probably just use that for mixing going forward. I prefer to mix in PT though tbh.
Old 4th December 2019
  #66
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Purchased S1 on Black Friday. My first DAW was PT 5 and has been the main DAW ever since (with the occasional forage into Logic for certain arrangements) so it might be tough for me to grasp quickly, but I’m willing to give it a try. Just don’t like Avid at all these days. If it works out okay for my workflow I’ll be cancelling my subscription.
Old 4th December 2019
  #67
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbjp View Post
Purchased S1 on Black Friday. My first DAW was PT 5 and has been the main DAW ever since (with the occasional forage into Logic for certain arrangements) so it might be tough for me to grasp quickly, but I’m willing to give it a try. Just don’t like Avid at all these days. If it works out okay for my workflow I’ll be cancelling my subscription.
Yeah I'm in the same boat. Going to be doing my first more serious test with S1 tonight.

If you're into control surfaces with your daw, console one with studio one is awesome, and this looks amazing as well-

Customised Mackie Control with DAW Sync and Full Plug-in Control

I'll have to try it in person, but that is ticking all the boxes that are missing for me in eucontrol (and icon) land. Custom plugin mapping, sync and unsync control surface (easily), pack and unpack folders to surface, plugin maps use faders and knobs at once...

That, a xtouch and extender, console one, all the console one channel strips and even a stream deck XL is about half the cost of an S3, and WAY more functionality. Only missing automation preview.
Old 4th December 2019
  #68
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by d.dot View Post
Avid has a Pricing Demystified page. After reading it, I'm still confused. I guess I'm a bit dense. I have a monthly vanilla sub I pay about $30 for. I'd like to cancel my sub upon wrapping up these last couple of mixes. If in the future I need to re-sub, do I have to pay a penalty or "re-instatement" fee as they call it?

I still have a PT12 license on my iLok. Am I still able to use that if I need to access old sessions?

I'd like to try S1 or Reaper. Not sure if I'm switching to anything though. I'm a long-time Logic user and will probably just use that for mixing going forward. I prefer to mix in PT though tbh.
If you are have perpetual license on your ilok you should be able to use that. And my understanding is there is no reinstatement fee for the subscriptions. That is for the perpetual licenses that have had the "updates and support" plans.

It looks like the reinstatements is going away now. So if you have a perpetual license and you let your update and support plan lapse, you will have to buy the software new again.

To me this is rediculous and one (more) reason I'm taking a look at moving away from PT, at least as my primary DAW.
Old 5th December 2019
  #69
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jlaws's Avatar
Stopped using PT because there were almost no updates of any note. And then they went and doubled the plan renewal, and now they remove the reinstatements? No thanks.
Old 5th December 2019
  #70
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IM WHO YOU THINK's Avatar
 

I see stores selling upgrades from Pt9 to Ultimate perpetual on EBay.

Is this legit? I feel lost having been out of the loop for many years
Old 5th December 2019
  #71
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d.dot's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by IM WHO YOU THINK View Post
I see stores selling upgrades from Pt9 to Ultimate perpetual on EBay.

Is this legit? I feel lost having been out of the loop for many years
I got my 10 to 12 update from eBay. No issues, but I can’t speak for every seller.
Old 5th December 2019
  #72
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by IM WHO YOU THINK View Post
I see stores selling upgrades from Pt9 to Ultimate perpetual on EBay.

Is this legit? I feel lost having been out of the loop for many years
I bought a 2nd ultimate license on there and it was fine, renewed fine as well. It was like 1k, which is a lot better then anywhere else...
Old 5th December 2019
  #73
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~ufo~'s Avatar
Just upgraded my S1 license from artist to pro. It cannot handle my whole workflow yet but I’ll try it for songwriting and production.

I may continue my pt ultimate subscription come March.

Depends on:
SC ADC
multichannel SCs
Folder tracks
Old 6th December 2019
  #74
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Pale Pyramid's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbjp View Post
Purchased S1 on Black Friday. My first DAW was PT 5 and has been the main DAW ever since (with the occasional forage into Logic for certain arrangements) so it might be tough for me to grasp quickly, but I’m willing to give it a try. Just don’t like Avid at all these days. If it works out okay for my workflow I’ll be cancelling my subscription.
I moved from PT, started on ver6, to S1 around 2010. It was pretty fast to learn. I love it. I PT ultimate. My plan is about to lapse and I don’t think I’ll renew. I don’t open it enough. S1 is better with CPU so I can run more plugins in a mix or nebula and Acustica audio. I’m on a Mac. PT seems to choke. Under the same conditions.
I’d watch a few tutorials. Coming from PT it’s pretty intuitive. Have fun
L
Old 6th December 2019
  #75
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Pale Pyramid's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ~ufo~ View Post
Just upgraded my S1 license from artist to pro. It cannot handle my whole workflow yet but I’ll try it for songwriting and production.

I may continue my pt ultimate subscription come March.

Depends on:
SC ADC
multichannel SCs
Folder tracks
Songwriting in S1 is where it shines. PT is no slouch but I love being a one man band in S1.
Old 6th December 2019
  #76
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by ~ufo~ View Post
Just upgraded my S1 license from artist to pro. It cannot handle my whole workflow yet but I’ll try it for songwriting and production.
Curious what aspects are missing for you...I'm in more or less the same boat. Dynamic clip gain automation is a big one for me. Also multi-ch/surround. I'm not finding a whole lot more after learning it more, but I like asking PT users because there's probably some things I'm overlooking.

But I'm also eyeballing moving my production/writing over to S1 for now. It seems like presonus will likely get to where I want sooner then PT.
Old 6th December 2019
  #77
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~ufo~'s Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanC View Post
Curious what aspects are missing for you...
Let me get back to you on that once I’ve tested it.

I have a pretty advanced template based workflow in PT that is automated, fool proof yet flexible.
It is a tall order to replicate that in any daw. So far Cubendo with DTouch has come closest to pulling it off.
Not quite though.
Mainly the routing is the problem.
Cubendo has since improved its sidechain routing from ‘myfirstchainy” to something more advanced. That may have made it acceptable to me. The old sidechain system they had (so did/does S1) wad unacceptable for my workflow.
We’ll see how far S1 pro gets. I hear it changed its side chain system too.

I’ll likely end up still mixing/mastering in PT, but I might end up songwriting and producing in S1.
If only S1’s touch screen control got actually good.
PT with DTouch is much much better than S1 Native touch support.
Old 6th December 2019
  #78
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~ufo~'s Avatar
First problem I'm running into on S1Pro 4.5:
You can add "inserts" to groups, but that seems to only allow you to add identical plugins to each channel in the group, but it does not then 'gang' their controls.
They are still individually controlled, the sidechains too. That's certainly not what I mean by grouping. Am I missing something?
If this is how it works now, that still doesn't cut it for me.
Nowhere near how advanced grouping in PT is.
Old 7th December 2019
  #79
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by ~ufo~ View Post
First problem I'm running into on S1Pro 4.5:
You can add "inserts" to groups, but that seems to only allow you to add identical plugins to each channel in the group, but it does not then 'gang' their controls.
They are still individually controlled, the sidechains too. That's certainly not what I mean by grouping. Am I missing something?
If this is how it works now, that still doesn't cut it for me.
Nowhere near how advanced grouping in PT is.
Yeah that's right. I very rarely group plugins like that, so not a big issue for me. But no doubt that PT's grouping options are more robust (than any other daw no?). I think S1 would need to add the ability to leave blank plugin slots like PT to make this work...IE (like PT) you can link and unlink plugin slot A, if the plugins are the same.

I'm curious (in the way that I'm probably missing something) what your reason for linking plugins?

Of course in S1 it is easy to drag/copy one plugins settings to the rest. For as rare as I use that, I can live with that. I know your workflow is different than mine- and it all comes down to a zero sum game for me. If the pros/cons in S1 can outweigh the pros/cons in PT by enough to tilt the scale type of thing. I'm still not quite sure on where that stands for me.

Avid's policies are definitely registering as cons lately- so there's that. But OTOH if I felt better about their progress there would be that.
Old 7th December 2019
  #80
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~ufo~'s Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanC View Post
I'm curious (in the way that I'm probably missing something) what your reason for linking plugins?
I mainly use it to be able to affect my stems like they are submixed, without actually submixig them.
Old 7th December 2019
  #81
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~ufo~'s Avatar
I’ve run some more tests.
It doesn’t check a whole lot more boxes than the last time I checked, to be honest. Which was 3.5 iirc.

- The mixer recall is still limited.
It doesn’t seem to be able to recall using a unique keystroke per preset.
Edit: apparently it can but only up to the fifth scene.
It also doesn’t seem to be able to recal floating windows (like open plugins).
This makes it too clunky to mix for me.

-there are still no channels with freely assignable io. The tracks do, but there’s no equivalent of channels like there is in PT. in stead there’s this ‘MyFirstBussy’ way of routing that’s inherited from Cubendo.
This means there are no busses or channels independent of each other (like there are in PT), but you have to work with busses that have channels tied to them.
This may be handier for basic stuff, but it starts to hinder you when you try more advanced stuff.
Even relatively simple stuff like ‘let’s see how this gtr bus processing sounds like on the bass bus...
In PT: mute bass sub (aux channel), change GTR sub’s input to bass bus.
In S1?
Copy inserts, sends, level, pan information etc???
How would you go about parallel processing on subs?
In PT: duplicate sub, mess with it.
In S1???: you cannot duplicate a bus, can you? Because you cannot output to more buses at once. Well, you can if you use sends, but that makes quickly checking something a much more time consuming affair...

-freeze up to X insert is not possible.

I may be missing some things, but all of these things are important for me to be able to mix for my client. Some are paramount. Let me know if any of them ARE possible.

This says nothing about the advantages S1 has over PT of course.
But it cannot cater to my mix parties yet.
We’ll see how well it serves me for songwriting and production.

Last edited by ~ufo~; 7th December 2019 at 01:36 PM..
Old 7th December 2019
  #82
Gear Guru
 
UnderTow's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ~ufo~ View Post
I’ve run some more tests.
It doesn’t check a whole lot more boxes than the last time I checked, to be honest. Which was 3.5 iirc.

- The mixer recall is still limited.
It doesn’t seem to be able to recall using a unique keystroke per preset.
Edit: apparently it can but only up to the fifth scene.
It also doesn’t seem to be able to recal floating windows (like open plugins).
This makes it too clunky to mix for me.

-there are still no channels with freely assignable io. The tracks do, but there’s no equivalent of channels like there is in PT. in stead there’s this ‘MyFirstBussy’ way of routing that’s inherited from Cubendo.
This means there are no busses or channels independent of each other (like there are in PT), but you have to work with busses that have channels tied to them.
This may be handier for basic stuff, but it starts to hinder you when you try more advanced stuff.
Even relatively simple stuff like ‘let’s see how this gtr bus processing sounds like on the bass bus...
In PT: mute bass sub (aux channel), change GTR sub’s input to bass bus.
In S1?
Copy inserts, sends, level, pan information etc???
How would you go about parallel processing on subs?
In PT: duplicate sub, mess with it.
In S1???: you cannot duplicate a bus, can you? Because you cannot output to more buses at once. Well, you can if you use sends, but that makes quickly checking something a much more time consuming affair...
The bussing system in PT is indeed very flexible. One thing you could maybe do is create a template with 32 (or whatever) hidden busses that act like PT busses. Or simply add an extra hidden bus each time you need one. After all, you have to do this separately in the PT I/O page too so it isn't actually an extra step compared to PT. Just a different step.

Admittedly one of the advantages of PT is that the I/O settings are separate from the projects but with good template use this might not be too much of an issue. (Can S1 save routing presets like Cubase? I don't know)

I admit I haven't thought of all the different aspects of this so I might be missing some workflow cases that could still suffer from this approach.

Alistair
Old 7th December 2019
  #83
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~ufo~'s Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by UnderTow View Post
The bussing system in PT is indeed very flexible. One thing you could maybe do is create a template with 32 (or whatever) hidden busses that act like PT busses. Or simply add an extra hidden bus each time you need one. After all, you have to do this separately in the PT I/O page too so it isn't actually an extra step compared to PT. Just a different step.
Not quite.

The problem is not the amount of buses, it's that S1 ties them to channels and channels to buses and that simply limits its usability.
It may be practical for most amateurs and even most pros, but it IS limiting.
Workarounds for that will be clunky.

Like I said, for parallel processing on subbuses, it's extremely useful to have your channels not fixed to buses, let alone to UNIQUE buses like is the case in S1 and Cubendo.

Say you subgroup your drums to a DRUM bus in PT.
This bus gets fed into an (Aux) channel. Let's call that sDRUMS.
Might take a few more steps than in S1 or Cubendo, but it's much more flexible.
And, you know, templates. Make them.

You can happily use your drum subbus like that.
Should you want to try some paralel processing, or just want to AB between processing to find the chain/settings you prefer, it's as easy as duplicating that (aux) channel and tweaking away.
If you want you can have twenty duplicates of that aux track and do whatever you want.
It only requires that ONE drum bus.
This is a huge advantage.

It might be so that the separate buses and channels in PT are a little confusing to amateurs or to professionals who didn't grow up in the console era, but honestly... Boo hoo.

This training wheels, 'myfirstrouting' systems I find in other daws just won't do for me.
They limit flexibility and with that creativity too much.

Or another example. Say you want to have all of your (16) sub buses processed by the same EQs that are ganged in order to simulate 2 bus processing.

I don't think I'll be able to set that up in any sort of easily tweakable way in S1 or Cubendo, if at all.
I know that's not pertinent to 99.9% of the users but it is paramount to me.
The big plus about PT to me and has always been is that it is flexible in how you want to setup the mixer. To me it is the standard of DAW routing.
Frankly I was surprised to find out other popular professionals DAWs don't offer such flexibility.
I've always said you could probably build a synthesizer just inside of the PT mixer.
It's that flexible and modular.

For all its shortcomings it's still king on that part for me and no other DAW I've tried beats it on that. They beat PT on other things, but I challenge anyway to get another DAW to fulfil my requirements and they will find out that their DAW won't be able to check all of those boxes or if they can only in such clunky ways it borders on unusable.
For MY use case.

So mixing in PT I will remain.

Experimenting with the likes of S1 and Bitwig is cool too though.
No time wasted there. PT can learn a thing or two from them.
Old 7th December 2019
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ~ufo~ View Post
How would you go about parallel processing on subs?
I do agree in general and never understood the need for limiting routing...

That said S1 does have a really great feature for parallel processing, if you click what looks like a little pan pot at the bottom of the ch, to the right of the fader, and then click the icon in the top left that looks like one thing routed to two (apologies I'm just at the point of playing with it myself).

In there you can setup splits, multi-band splits and parallel processing.

I would, for sure, still vote for completely free routing though.
Old 7th December 2019
  #85
Gear Guru
 
UnderTow's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ~ufo~ View Post
Not quite.
I'm clearly not making myself clear!

I know how bussing works in PT as I use it every day. My point was to add another layer of bussing in Cubase or S1.

Unfortunately my plan won't work for one simple reason: You can not change the Input of a Group Track in Cubase.

My idea was to add an extra layer of busses that you hide (if you want) and that works like busses in PT. Then add Group Tracks like you would add Aux tracks in PT and simply change the Input of those Group Tracks to the Bus you want assigned to them.

But alas... You can only change the Output of a Group Track, not the Input. Probably because Cubase only allows you to have one actual output to a Group Track... That's another advantage of PT: Adding multiple outputs to the same Track/Aux.

Maybe you can in S1? Or is it basically the same as Cubase? (Not sure as I never use S1).

Quote:
The problem is not the amount of buses, it's that S1 ties them to channels and channels to buses and that simply limits its usability.
It may be practical for most amateurs and even most pros, but it IS limiting.
Workarounds for that will be clunky.
Yep. Definitely limiting. Although I don't have a problem with it in Cubase even though I am so used to it in PT. I've just adjusted my workflow and never think about it.

Quote:
Or another example. Say you want to have all of your (16) sub buses processed by the same EQs that are ganged in order to simulate 2 bus processing.

I don't think I'll be able to set that up in any sort of easily tweakable way in S1 or Cubendo, if at all.
You certainly don't have the Mix Groups like in PT. I use them in all my PT projects to link things like EQ settings or Limiter threshold and output settings across various Auxes etc. There is nothing quite like it in Cubase.

The Quick-Link functionality might help a bit but it isn't the same... and I tend to get into trouble with it as I forget to turn it off and then end up changing things I don't want to change... So I avoid it mostly.

Quote:
I know that's not pertinent to 99.9% of the users but it is paramount to me.
The big plus about PT to me and has always been is that it is flexible in how you want to setup the mixer. To me it is the standard of DAW routing.
From the DAWs I am familiar with, it indeed has the best routing flexibility.

Quote:
Frankly I was surprised to find out other popular professionals DAWs don't offer such flexibility.
It just depends what you are used to. I was shocked when I started using PT and you couldn't turn Edit Window scrolling on/off during playback. (I started with Cakewalk Sonar more than 20 years ago where you just press the "Scroll lock" key that is on every keyboard... Simple, obvious, super useful).

But once you are used to working a certain way... it is indeed a huge nuisance to have to switch to a different DAW that doesn't have what feels like basic functionality...

Or how about Macro's and Scripts? 20+ years ago I was programming Macro's and scripts to automate all sorts of actions in Sonar (and now Cubase). In PT? Nada!

Quote:
For all its shortcomings it's still king on that part for me and no other DAW I've tried beats it on that. They beat PT on other things, but I challenge anyway to get another DAW to fulfil my requirements and they will find out that their DAW won't be able to check all of those boxes or if they can only in such clunky ways it borders on unusable.
For MY use case.
Yup. I wouldn't want to do post-production work in Cubase but on the other hand I couldn't use PT to produce music even if my life depended on it. It would drive me insane....

Quote:
So mixing in PT I will remain.
I just reinstated my Update Plan for Ultimate today... bloody Mafia...

Anyway, good luck finding a replacement or otherwise, happy mixing in PT!

Alistair
Old 7th December 2019
  #86
Gear Guru
 
UnderTow's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanC View Post
I do agree in general and never understood the need for limiting routing...
Many years ago Cakewalk released a new version of Sonar in which you could create routing loops (as you can in PT for instance). When someone mentioned it on the forum as a cool thing, Cakewalk promptly proceeded to release a patch to "fix" the problem so that users wouldn't get themselves into trouble and damage their speakers/hearing.

Quote:
I would, for sure, still vote for completely free routing though.
Me too!

Alistair
Old 7th December 2019
  #87
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Matt Allison's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by UnderTow View Post
I was shocked when I started using PT and you couldn't turn Edit Window scrolling on/off during playback.
There are several scrolling options to choose from; do you mean not being able to click and change it while the transport is actually playing? If so, that doesn't really seem like that a big a deal to me shrug
Old 7th December 2019
  #88
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rectifried's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanC View Post
I bought a 2nd ultimate license on there and it was fine, renewed fine as well. It was like 1k, which is a lot better then anywhere else...
I’m selling a 2019.10 legit PT ultimate lic .. Comes with a year of updates in the classifieds
Old 7th December 2019
  #89
Gear Guru
 
UnderTow's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Allison View Post
There are several scrolling options to choose from; do you mean not being able to click and change it while the transport is actually playing? If so, that doesn't really seem like that a big a deal to me shrug
That is exactly what I mean and to me it is a HUGE deal. I need to work fast and keep things moving which means I am constantly multi-tasking. I'll do fades and edits during playback. So I'm listening, mixing (Latch Automation mode with Auto Join ON) and will edit things I have just heard need fixing while playback continues. Being able to momentarily switch scrolling on/off makes all that much easier and smoother.

IMO it was ridiculous that PT couldn't turn scrolling on/off during playback. All other DAWs I have tried can and always could, and for good reason. It makes workflow much more efficient.

Clearly people complained about this as Avid changed things in Ultimate. (I think it was Ultimate). Now you can change the scrolling status during playback. Still no key command as far as I am aware but luckily there is an EuCon command for it.

Alistair
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