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macOS Catalina - share your experiences here
Old 4 weeks ago
  #181
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sascha Franck View Post
Nonsense. All software needs to be tested under real-life conditions. That means by people like average users and the likes. Folks that don't use early developer builts of an OS. And things need to work under all kinds of conditions. You simply don't manage doing that within just a handful of weeks in case it's pretty complexed software.
If you worked in product development, you should know this. But for whatever reasons, you don't seem to.

Besides, it's still Apple causing all this for no reasons. So developers may as well simply not be willing to hurry at all.
You are right. You know everything, I know nothing. There’s no point. Carry on.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #182
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by drainyoo View Post
You are right. You know everything, I know nothing. There’s no point. Carry on.
Cool.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #183
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lowkey's Avatar
 

There’s no point with that guy.
He’s on a mission to complain non stop about everything Apple cause apparently that will change them
Quote:
Originally Posted by drainyoo View Post
You are right. You know everything, I know nothing. There’s no point. Carry on.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #184
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by drainyoo View Post
You are right. You know everything, I know nothing. There’s no point. Carry on.
He certainly knows how to run off at the mouth. And when someone states:

"Besides, it's still Apple causing all this for no reasons. So developers may as well simply not be willing to hurry at all."

That person is not interested in having a real conversation, he just wants to shout in your face that he's right. Apple is not causing all of this "for no reasons". Thats pure, unadulterated BS. And to more BS to the pile in the second sentence. So yeah developers should just piss off their customers because Apple. Odd to me that some have been able to get their stuff working in pretty short order.

Honestly tho I'm curious how you got Roland Cloud to work without having to disable system integrity protection first. Or did you do an in-place upgrade from Mojave? For me the installer worked however MainStage/Logic would return errors when those plugins were scanned. Disabling SIP then doing the scan let them work but I'm not willing to do that full time.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #185
Gear Maniac
 
Wattsy's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by drainyoo View Post
You are right. You know everything, I know nothing. There’s no point. Carry on.
Sascha’s views are fairly crystallised, and I don’t think he has any interest in counterpoints. It’s a shame as there are a lot of people on here with different skillsets and expertise to learn from.

I think as with most things the truth lays somewhere in-between. People have had developer builds since June and plenty of companies were fast out of the gate with Catalina, however (as you’re no doubt aware) every product is different and some of the breaking changes are more complicated to implement particularly for smaller teams / solo developers. I don’t think my audio machines have ever seen a major version OS update within 6 months of release.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #186
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by rezoneight View Post
HHonestly tho I'm curious how you got Roland Cloud to work without having to disable system integrity protection first. Or did you do an in-place upgrade from Mojave? For me the installer worked however MainStage/Logic would return errors when those plugins were scanned. Disabling SIP then doing the scan let them work but I'm not willing to do that full time.
I did nothing special. Just installed Roland Cloud Manger and it worked. I did upgrade from Mojave. I'm using Ableton, maybe that's why?
Old 4 weeks ago
  #187
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wattsy View Post
Sascha’s views are fairly crystallised, and I don’t think he has any interest in counterpoints. It’s a shame as there are a lot of people on here with different skillsets and expertise to learn from.

I think as with most things the truth lays somewhere in-between. People have had developer builds since June and plenty of companies were fast out of the gate with Catalina, however (as you’re no doubt aware) every product is different and some of the breaking changes are more complicated to implement particularly for smaller teams / solo developers. I don’t think my audio machines have ever seen a major version OS update within 6 months of release.
Agreed that there are unique cases where the software is very complicated and the teams are small, so they need more time. But, the major companies should have their stuff together. They have the resources to get an update out in a reasonable time. According to the Sweetwater compatibility list, a bunch of major players still don't have an official release. They need to do better.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #188
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by drainyoo View Post
I did nothing special. Just installed Roland Cloud Manger and it worked. I did upgrade from Mojave. I'm using Ableton, maybe that's why?
You installed Roland Cloud Manager under Catalina and it worked? Or you installed Roland Cloud Manager under Mojave where it worked then upgraded to Catalina? Those are very different scenarios. And what does "worked" mean in this case? I only use AUs and the Roland ones fail without SIP turned off. Are you using a different plugin format? I don't use Ableton Live so no idea what plugin format it requires.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #189
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by rezoneight View Post
You installed Roland Cloud Manager under Catalina and it worked? Or you installed Roland Cloud Manager under Mojave where it worked then upgraded to Catalina? Those are very different scenarios. And what does "worked" mean in this case? I only use AUs and the Roland ones fail without SIP turned off. Are you using a different plugin format? I don't use Ableton Live so no idea what plugin format it requires.
I installed RCM under Catalina and everything works. Meaning, all the plugins I installed through RCM show up in Ableton and I can use them. I'm using AUs in Ableton.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #190
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by drainyoo View Post
You are right. You know everything, I know nothing. There’s no point. Carry on.
You’ll save yourself some wasted energy if you just put him on your ignore list:
Old 4 weeks ago
  #191
Gear Maniac
 

Rumors are flying about a MacBook Pro 16" release announcement today. Really wanna pick one up, especially if they replaced the butterfly keyboard, as rumored. BUT, by this point we're looking at Catalina only, right? Won't be able to downgrade since that's the current OS.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #192
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lowkey's Avatar
 

I’ve got an unopened 8core i9 sitting on my desk here that arrived from the Apple refurb store yesterday. Think I’m going to leave the box as it is for a few days to see if the 16” comes out.
Won’t love moving Catalina but I guess it would at least be a lean setup with no unused bloat on my machine

Quote:
Originally Posted by MattyJoe View Post
Rumors are flying about a MacBook Pro 16" release announcement today. Really wanna pick one up, especially if they replaced the butterfly keyboard, as rumored. BUT, by this point we're looking at Catalina only, right? Won't be able to downgrade since that's the current OS.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #193
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MattyJoe View Post
Rumors are flying about a MacBook Pro 16" release announcement today. Really wanna pick one up, especially if they replaced the butterfly keyboard, as rumored. BUT, by this point we're looking at Catalina only, right? Won't be able to downgrade since that's the current OS.
dosdude1 might have a patch soon after it's out. I'm pretty sure the rumored 16" MBP has been tested with Mojave as well (I mean, it takes time for that to be developed and you usually don't slap a beta OS onto a machine in development), so there should be no inherent technical limitation.

Fwiw, rumors also have it that the baseline model would come with a 256GB SSD. Pathetic (but business as usual...).
Old 4 weeks ago
  #194
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Jim Rosebrook's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sascha Franck View Post
Fwiw, rumors also have it that the baseline model would come with a 256GB SSD. Pathetic (but business as usual...).
This is incorrect... baseline is 512GB
Old 4 weeks ago
  #195
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Rosebrook View Post
This is incorrect... baseline is 512GB
How would you know?
Old 4 weeks ago
  #196
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Jim Rosebrook's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sascha Franck View Post
How would you know?
Uhhh.. The 16" MacBook Pro was released today.

Baseline is 512GB
Old 4 weeks ago
  #197
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Rosebrook View Post
Uhhh.. The 16" MacBook Pro was released today.

Oh, whoops.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #198
Gear Maniac
 

Definitely picking up a 16" MBP soon. Gonna get the 64GB RAM option as well.

I have a second clone of my current Mojave setup that I've been thinking about upgrading to Catalina to see how it goes. I have plugins and synths from all the major players, so I'll report how that goes here. Some of them have announced support already, and some have said their software *should* work but they're still testing.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #199
Gear Maniac
I feel kind of bad for the Tuis and Saschas of this thread...but then again, I don't...

Look dudes. If I found myself in 2019 with a bunch of expensive, incompatible 32-bit hardware/software I purchased some years back, I'd want to bop nobody over the head other than MYSELF. No offense...but maybe it's a generational thing? I learned to produce during the cusp of the "Digital Revolution" - around 2008. Even BACK THEN, I could easily understand that 64-bit was the way forward, and that things like CD PLAYERS of all ancient things (no sarcasm) were on their way out. Fast forward 11 years...and you are STILL bitching about the end of 32-bit, and clinging onto your CD PLAYER? Again, no offense, but..."OK BOOMER".

If I were you, I'd sell your old ****e gear secondhand, and consider future-proofing your studio, lest you find yourself in the same conundrum in the future. If you can't do that, you ought to do away with digital and what it stands for entirely, and go back to an all-analog workflow. Embrace the future that's coming, or the past you enjoyed. You can't have both in this audio game unless you know EXACTLY what you're doing. It appears that folks of your type didn't see this coming, whereas many of us did and adjusted accordingly.

As for OSes...I have great respect for those producers who clung to XP and continued to make music with it for years after its obsolescense. But I'm sure they understood that sooner or later, they would have to face the elephant in the room. Same for you and sticking with old OSes.

In any case, you need to quit bitching about what you don't have and go make some music. Based on what I've read on this thread so far, I am happily updating to Catalina presently. If there is any sort of cause for regret, it would have to be a critical dev error, as the audio ship I run on my Mac is tighter than a mosquito's ass. But you know what? I'll use stock plugins for a while if I have to. I believe in the dev process. It's not like the entire audio industry is going to jump ship just because there are a few bumps in the road. You Grumpy Old Men can believe whatever you want...

Last edited by Ishkash; 4 weeks ago at 11:15 PM..
Old 4 weeks ago
  #200
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by drainyoo View Post
I installed RCM under Catalina and everything works. Meaning, all the plugins I installed through RCM show up in Ableton and I can use them. I'm using AUs in Ableton.
Interesting. Maybe its a Logic/MainStage thing. Given that those are the only applications I use no idea if other software handle's AUs differently
Old 4 weeks ago
  #201
Lives for gear
 
lowkey's Avatar
 

Sashas not one to let facts get in the way of a whinge about apple...

New machine has some good (re)additions:-
Escape key, t-shaped arrow keys, 3.5mm headphone, bigger SSD, better graphics, new (old) keyboard, bigger screen, better thermals. Not bad for the same price as the old model, with much cheaper ram and SSD upgrades.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Rosebrook View Post
Uhhh.. The 16" MacBook Pro was released today.

Baseline is 512GB

Last edited by lowkey; 4 weeks ago at 09:16 AM..
Old 4 weeks ago
  #202
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ishkash View Post
I feel kind of bad for the Tuis and Saschas of this thread...but then again, I don't...

Look dudes. If I found myself in 2019 with a bunch of expensive, incompatible 32-bit hardware/software I purchased some years back, I'd want to bop nobody over the head other than MYSELF. No offense...but maybe it's a generational thing? I learned to produce during the cusp of the "Digital Revolution" - around 2008. Even BACK THEN, I could easily understand that 64-bit was the way forward, and that things like CD PLAYERS of all ancient things (no sarcasm) were on their way out. Fast forward 11 years...and you are STILL bitching about the end of 32-bit, and clinging onto your CD PLAYER? Again, no offense, but..."OK BOOMER".

If I were you, I'd sell your old ****e gear secondhand, and consider future-proofing your studio, lest you find yourself in the same conundrum in the future. If you can't do that, you ought to do away with digital and what it stands for entirely, and go back to an all-analog workflow. Embrace the future that's coming, or the past you enjoyed. You can't have both in this audio game unless you know EXACTLY what you're doing. It appears that folks of your type didn't see this coming, whereas many of us did and adjusted accordingly.

As for OSes...I have great respect for those producers who clung to XP and continued to make music with it for years after its obsolescense. But I'm sure they understood that sooner or later, they would have to face the elephant in the room. Same for you and sticking with old OSes.

In any case, you need to quit bitching about what you don't have and go make some music. Based on what I've read on this thread so far, I am happily updating to Catalina presently. If there is any sort of cause for regret, it would have to be a critical dev error, as the audio ship I run on my Mac is tighter than a mosquito's ass. But you know what? I'll use stock plugins for a while if I have to. I believe in the dev process. It's not like the entire audio industry is going to jump ship just because there are a few bumps in the road. You Grumpy Old Men can believe whatever you want...

Well put. You really degraded the potential of your posts clarity with the hipster snowflake “ok boomer” comment though. I know it was a thing but it’s already tired and it barely started. I get the sentiment but most of the people I know who use it are fairly lazy and mostly useless as far as contributing to GDP. The rest of your post is solid and well stated. They really are a unique crew. There are a bunch more over in the Mac Pro thread
Old 4 weeks ago
  #203
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lowkey's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by thestarfire View Post
Well put.
The rest of your post is solid and well stated. They really are a unique crew. There are a bunch more over in the Mac Pro thread
I think it’s the same guys
Old 4 weeks ago
  #204
Gear Maniac
I agree, the new MBPs look very tantalizing. Apple seemed to be "off" for a couple of years with their MBP line, but I like the look of things now. 64 GB RAM?! Egads!

Also: I updated to Catalina. No problems running Live 10 with a smorgasbord of VST2s. Old sessions loading up and running just fine. Looking good...
Old 4 weeks ago
  #205
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by thestarfire View Post
Well put. You really degraded the potential of your posts clarity with the hipster snowflake “ok boomer” comment though. I know it was a thing but it’s already tired and it barely started. I get the sentiment but most of the people I know who use it are fairly lazy and mostly useless as far as contributing to GDP. The rest of your post is solid and well stated. They really are a unique crew. There are a bunch more over in the Mac Pro thread
"ok boomer" is pretty much a Gen Z thing...not a hipster thing, and quite frankly hilarious and totally appropriate to the point of the post: stop acting like an old fossil.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #206
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by lowkey View Post
Sashas not one to let facts get in the way of a whinge about apple...

New machine has some good (re)additions:-
Escape key, t-shaped arrow keys, 3.5mm headphone, bigger SSD, better graphics, new (old) keyboard, bigger screen, better thermals. Not bad for the same price as the old model, with much cheaper ram and SSD upgrades.
Did the headphone jack ever disappear? My 2017 has it. And just an FYI its not the old keyboard. Its a new design of the Magic Keyboard they include with the desktop macs. Oddly enough I dont get the joy over either the escape key or the inverted T arrow key layout. Have never had a problem finding the escape key on the touch bar, its in the same place as the the regular escape key. And never had a problem finding the arrow keys either. Dont recall people complaining about that on the Magic Keyboard (which doesnt have the inverted T) but could be mistaken.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #207
Gear Maniac
 

So, I tried an experiment last night; upgrading a second clone of my Mojave system to macOS Catalina just to see what would happen. I was VERY surprised by the results.

Out of nearly 800 Audio Units, only about 19 failed Logic authorization, and only about 6 actually couldn't run on the new OS and were uninstalled. Those 6 were free plugins I've picked up along the way that are way outdated at this point (side note: All of the plugins I own are on the latest versions, so nothing I'm reporting here is due to not having updated).

Some key things that failed Authorization: Antares Harmonizer 4.1, Guitar Rig 5 MFX, some UAD plugins, but this is because of the Apollo driver not being supported by Catalina. Most actually still managed to pass, however, but won't run without the DSP card obviously.

I expected the UAD drivers not to work since Universal Audio has a warning about this on their site. This point is a big deal for me, since I use an Apollo.

However, that was IT. Everything else passed authorization, and opened and ran, including some outdated or no longer supported plugins (like CamelCrusher, which I happen to use a lot, and an old version of Oxford Inflator).

As far as other DAWs, Pro Tools 2019.10 didn't open at all, and gave me an error message saying it's not supported for macOS 10.15. The message came from Pro Tools itself, not macOS, so I'm guessing Avid added it in the latest update. This came as no surprise to me, however. I was not expecting Pro Tools to work since Avid hasn't announced Catalina support. I do realize this is a huge dealbreaker for most people here, since there are mostly engineers here. It's slightly less of a dealbreaker for me since most of my time producing is spent in Logic.

I'm getting a 16" MacBook Pro soon, so the most vital thing I'm waiting for right now is the UAD driver for my Apollo. Pro Tools is a close second, since it's where I do most of my tracking. I produce in Logic, which is working great, with the overwhelming majority of my plugins showing up. I decided to conduct this experiment because of the 16" MBP, which I'd likely need to be on Catalina to use (unless it'd be possible to downgrade to Mojave, which I might try).

I didn't open Live 10 Suite since I don't use it much. But might test that out just for the hell of it.

Here's a list of software companies whose products I own that passed authorization in Logic and ran, aside from the specific exceptions I mentioned above. If anyone has questions about specific plugins, let me know and I can verify for you that they're working if I have them.

Accusonus, Antares, Arturia, Audio Assault, Audio Damage, BBE Sound, Camel Audio, Celemony, D16 Group, Dmitry Sches, Eventide, FabFilter, FutureAudioWorkshop, FXpansion, iZotope, keilwerth audio, KV331 Audio, LennarDigital, MOK, Native Instruments, Nicky Romero, NUGEN Audio, Overloud, Output, Plugin Alliance, Reveal Sound, Rob Papen, Sonic Academy, Sonnox, Soundtoys, Spectrasonics, Sugar Bytes, Synapse, Synchro Arts, TAL-Togu Audio Line, Valhalla DSP, Waves, Xfer Records, XLN Audio
Old 3 weeks ago
  #208
Gear Maniac
 
Wattsy's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by rezoneight View Post
Did the headphone jack ever disappear? My 2017 has it. And just an FYI its not the old keyboard. Its a new design of the Magic Keyboard they include with the desktop macs. Oddly enough I dont get the joy over either the escape key or the inverted T arrow key layout. Have never had a problem finding the escape key on the touch bar, its in the same place as the the regular escape key. And never had a problem finding the arrow keys either. Dont recall people complaining about that on the Magic Keyboard (which doesnt have the inverted T) but could be mistaken.
The escape key is vitally important to many programmers, particularly VIM users. The option was basically remap the escape key to something like caps-lock and undo what was often decades of muscle memory, or buy a different laptop. I also vastly prefer being able to “roll over” on the inverted T that’s on my 2012 MBP so I’m stoked to see that back, but I imagine that’s more personal preference.

I was thinking I’d likely never buy another laptop, but this one is making a lot of sense. It’s nothing revolutionary, but a very nice refinement while walking back some poor design choices of the last few years.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #209
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wattsy View Post
The escape key is vitally important to many programmers, particularly VIM users. The option was basically remap the escape key to something like caps-lock and undo what was often decades of muscle memory, or buy a different laptop. I also vastly prefer being able to “roll over” on the inverted T that’s on my 2012 MBP so I’m stoked to see that back, but I imagine that’s more personal preference.

I was thinking I’d likely never buy another laptop, but this one is making a lot of sense. It’s nothing revolutionary, but a very nice refinement while walking back some poor design choices of the last few years.
Maybe VIM users but I'm a programmer by day and have never missed a real escape key, there is one on the touch bar that is always there.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #210
Gear Maniac
 
Wattsy's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by rezoneight View Post
there is one on the touch bar that is always there.
That was my major gripe with the soft-key, given that it should always be present there was no benefit to having it part of a dynamic touch bar. Having a tactile key matters when you're using it constantly.

As I'm sure you're aware the developer community as a whole is fairly hostile towards the touch bar (just check the HN thread) but I love some of the integrations we're seeing. I'm hopeful they'll bring it to the external Magic Keyboards soon.

Given that it will likely only be able to run Catalina it's great to see people having relatively little trouble early on. Macro Arment noted it's almost as fast as his iMac Pro.
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