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At last: new Mac Pro!
Old 23rd September 2019
  #2341
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microwave's Avatar
I’m not an Apple fundamentalist but I still wouldn’t switch. In my experiences with PCs I only had and witnessed nothing but grief, whereas in two decades of Macs I never had a (solvable) issue that I couldn’t work out myself, often with help by some great online folks.
I can only agree that the prices of high end new Macs have become insane - my Mac Pro 5,1 recently died after a decade of excellent service and I definitely would not buy a new computer at the price of this latest model even if I could afford it. I’ve been using reconditioned Macs for years, so my new machine is a 6,1 2.7 Ghz twelve core - still expensive but nowhere near the price that Apple are asking for what is essentially an expendable item.
Old 23rd September 2019
  #2342
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KevWind's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sascha Franck View Post
Scary. Usually with new OSX versions, it was more like "try at your own risk". Now it's more or less explicitely "Don't!".
Yikes ! that's a long list, Guess my being "stuck on Mojave " with my current Mid 2010 (performing great so far, BTW) , is a good thing ....... just kiddin ya a bit That is a bit scary.
Old 23rd September 2019
  #2343
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sascha Franck View Post
Even in Apple land, this is new - so far, any such events only happened when something truly essential was changed, namely hardware (PPC to Intel). But this time it's still stock hardware.
Isn't the main reason that Apple is dropping OS level 32-bit support in macOS Catalina? That is indeed major. How long since Apple announced this would happen? Probably half a decade ago at least.
Old 23rd September 2019
  #2344
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikael B View Post
Isn't the main reason that Apple is dropping OS level 32-bit support in macOS Catalina? That is indeed major. How long since Apple announced this would happen? Probably half a decade ago at least.
Well, most of my plugins are fully 64bit already (installers included). And yet some companies (e.g. Native Instruments) claim that their products aren't Catalina-ready.

Besides, I never understood the benfits of an exclusive 64bit system. The current OSes of both Apple and Microsoft are a perfect prove that 32 and 64bit can happily co-exist.
Old 23rd September 2019
  #2345
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ponzi View Post
Isn't this the same thing that avid does for every release of osx--advise customers not to use it until they have had a chance to verify it works?
Well, yes and no. But so far it was more like "please try it out if you feel like", at least when it comes to NI and such.
Old 23rd September 2019
  #2346
Dor
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Dor's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkyGoldstein View Post
Texas, it is

https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2019/...made-in-texas/

"The value of American-made components in the new Mac Pro is 2.5 times greater than in Apple’s previous generation Mac Pro."

(btw. the current 2013 mac pro was produced in the same factory)
The 2013 Mac Pro was assembled in the USA. Parts were produced and sourced mostly overseas. I recall the 2013 was delayed due to a screw shortage. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mac...-shortage/amp/

D
Old 23rd September 2019
  #2347
Lives for gear
Yes, screws are available now
Old 24th September 2019
  #2348
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ponzi's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sascha Franck View Post
Well, yes and no. But so far it was more like "please try it out if you feel like", at least when it comes to NI and such.
Sure. I am sure you know that even if avid does not say it, its prudent to not upgrade osx in a working studio until months have gone by and all the unknowns get worked out. Is catalina bad news? I am in no position to disagree.

To repeat myself, I think steve jobs was the growth genius, and the management now is not innovating, they are just milking their strong market position and high exit barriers for some users by simply making their products more expensive.

I don't see this as viable in the long run, and I am not going to tie my fate to a company executing this strategy.
Old 24th September 2019
  #2349
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ponzi's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sascha Franck View Post
...Besides, I never understood the benfits of an exclusive 64bit system. The current OSes of both Apple and Microsoft are a perfect prove that 32 and 64bit can happily co-exist.
32 bit support is implemented in what used to be called a thunking process (in windows anyway) where the 32 bit stuff is converted to 64 before it can run on the cpu and vice versa. It is of course a performance hit to do this. Since the cpu is 64 bit native, there is no performance advantage to 32 bit, and of course its limited to a 4 gig address space.

I am sure that taking out 32 bit support simplifies the os to some degree.

Now in this respect, microsoft has to get their own house in order--their visual studio development tool is still a 32 bit app, as are some others. There is no excuse for this failure to keep current, though they make lame excuses anyway. So... windows has to get their app portfolio to 64 bit before they can think about taking 32 bit out of windows.

I guess my plugs are few and current enough that cubase 10 (64 bit only) runs them all. I imagine others may have plugs that are not 64 bit.

My own approach was that when the writing is on the wall, I will not be the first to upgrade, but not the last either. That stands for osx to windows, and 32 to 64 bit.
Old 24th September 2019
  #2350
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ponzi View Post
Sure. I am sure you know that even if avid does not say it, its prudent to not upgrade osx in a working studio until months have gone by and all the unknowns get worked out.
See, I'm not saying anyone should update their OSes at anytime while doing something serious. In addition, one should always do OS updates on a copy of the source OS.
But, imagine your machine breaks? In just a few weeks from, if you purchase a new machine from Apple, you will end up with an OS that has a pretty big "NO" badge from all sorts of companies, at least so far.

Quote:
Is catalina bad news? I am in no position to disagree.
For me its the combination of the T2 nonsense, Catalina and Apples horrendously greedy pricing tactics that really starts to smell fishy.

Quote:
To repeat myself, I think steve jobs was the growth genius, and the management now is not innovating, they are just milking their strong market position and high exit barriers for some users by simply making their products more expensive.

I don't see this as viable in the long run, and I am not going to tie my fate to a company executing this strategy.
I second all of this. And while I have never been a big fan of Steve Jobs, now that some years have passed by since he died, we can clearly see how important he was.
Old 24th September 2019
  #2351
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Chevron's Avatar
 

Yeh the software companies warnings are an indication that it's prudent to be patient and I will likely wait for the nMP to get out in to the wild to assess..
Old 24th September 2019
  #2352
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lars Fox View Post
Unless something changes, Mojave looks to be the shipping macOS with the new MP.
I consider that pretty good news for anyone interested in buying any new Mac (not just the MP) more or less soon.
It'll very likely also allow you to continue working with a clone of an existing machines OSX installation (unless your machine isn't even able to run Mojave), which is what plenty of Mac folks are used to until all the issues of whatever new OSX versions are weeded out.
Let's wait and see whether they will keep shipping Macs with Mojave even when Catalina is released already.
IMO that'd be a clever move because right now there's a whole lot of folks still using apps with at least some portions of 32bit code involved (even if it's just installers and such).

And even if - as has been said already - the writings were on the wall that 32bit support would be entirely kicked out, it's not the fault of the users that full 64bit compatibility hasn't taken off already.
IMO it's not even exactly a fault of 3rd party software suppliers, either. I mean, to really get some decent "hands on betatesting" results for your software, you need an officially released OS version that is out of beta status for a while already.
Old 24th September 2019
  #2353
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Chevron's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lars Fox View Post
Unless something changes, Mojave looks to be the shipping macOS with the new MP.

They of course know that for many Pros of all fields, switching to a brand new OS is just not reasonable. So I bet this remains the case.
Thanks for the info! I hope this is the case!
Old 24th September 2019
  #2354
Gear Maniac
 
Wattsy's Avatar
 

https://variety.com/2019/digital/new...od-1203347033/

Some important news for those running Avid + Trashcans.

Those greedy masterminds at Apple bricking old machines to drive sales! (/sarcasm)
Old 24th September 2019
  #2355
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Chevron's Avatar
 

Interestingly, I had my 5,1 Mac mysteriously just shut down last night in the middle of a Pro Tools mix. It has done it once before and freaks me out when it does that. Just shuts down rapidly with no warning.

Funny thing was I was thinking, **** if I need a new mac now I will grab an i9 iMac. Even though I've been bagging them for my own studio use :D
Old 24th September 2019
  #2356
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ponzi View Post

To repeat myself, I think steve jobs was the growth genius, and the management now is not innovating, they are just milking their strong market position and high exit barriers for some users by simply making their products more expensive.
Apple stocks are over 3x the price of when Jobs passed. You can't expect them to behave like a startup when they are so big.
Old 24th September 2019
  #2357
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Shaggy2039's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lars Fox View Post
Unless something changes, Mojave looks to be the shipping macOS with the new MP.

From Apple's website:




They of course know that for many Pros of all fields, switching to a brand new OS is just not reasonable. So I bet this remains the case.
Yup. My Apple refurbed iMac Pro that I just purchased had Mojave.
Old 24th September 2019
  #2358
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juiseman's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chevron View Post
Interestingly, I had my 5,1 Mac mysteriously just shut down last night in the middle of a Pro Tools mix. It has done it once before and freaks me out when it does that. Just shuts down rapidly with no warning.

Funny thing was I was thinking, **** if I need a new mac now I will grab an i9 iMac. Even though I've been bagging them for my own studio use :D
Sounds like the power supply or over temp of the CPU.
Hopefully its not the motherboard.

try a tool like this to see what the CPU and other components are reading
https://bjango.com/mac/istatmenus/
Old 24th September 2019
  #2359
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ponzi's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by juiseman View Post
Sounds like the power supply or over temp of the CPU.
Hopefully its not the motherboard.

try a tool like this to see what the CPU and other components are reading
https://bjango.com/mac/istatmenus/
My thought as well. I suggesr having the dust blown out of power supply and cpu heat sink.
Old 24th September 2019
  #2360
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chevron View Post
Interestingly, I had my 5,1 Mac mysteriously just shut down last night in the middle of a Pro Tools mix. It has done it once before and freaks me out when it does that. Just shuts down rapidly with no warning.
https://appleinsider.com/articles/19...wns-on-mac-pro

Check your OS version. Seems there might be a virus targeting Avid/iLok? Still a lot of unknowns here...
Old 24th September 2019
  #2361
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ponzi's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by 6strings View Post
https://appleinsider.com/articles/19...wns-on-mac-pro

Check your OS version. Seems there might be a virus targeting Avid/iLok? Still a lot of unknowns here...
Very interesting.
Old 24th September 2019
  #2362
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Chevron's Avatar
 

Thanks for the suggestions guys. I will look in to it and let you know if I find anything conclusive.
Old 24th September 2019
  #2363
Gear Maniac
 
Wattsy's Avatar
 

There seems to be a lot of talk indicating it might be ilok related, I’d say a botched update is more likely than a virus. Could be due to Pace making changes in preparation for Catalina? Either way it’ll be interesting to see the cause.
Old 24th September 2019
  #2364
Gear Addict
I have a 2013 Mac Pro and around a hundred auths on an iLok... no shut down here...
But I'm an Logic, not PT
Old 24th September 2019
  #2365
Sky
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Sky's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sascha Franck View Post
Well, they're slapping a 100 bucks SSD into a 6k machine, so nothing new here.
It has always been part of Apples strategies to make their base configurations barely acceptable (if at all) so people would purchase whatever upgrades straight from the start - for horrendous prices. That's why you can't do anything on your own on most of Apples devices, too. Soldered RAM, glued in drives, no SD card slots on iDevices, let alone replaceable batteries. Anything checked to make upgrades expensive and/or shorten the lifecycle. Yes, there's many companies doing it in similar ways, but Apple is way at the forefront.
This has been my pet peeve. For starters, one must buy upgrades - at Apple prices - early in the life-cycle, e.g. large SSDs before costs have settled, or risk needing to replace the entire Mac sooner when performance or capacity runs out.

Sky
Old 24th September 2019
  #2366
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ponzi's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sky View Post
This has been my pet peeve. For starters, one must buy upgrades - at Apple prices - early in the life-cycle, e.g. large SSDs before costs have settled, or risk needing to replace the entire Mac sooner when performance or capacity runs out.

Sky
Did I miss something, or is there still some uncertainty as to whether ssd can be upgraded on the nmp, or is it soldered in. I guess then a question would be if it has some m.2 slots on the mobo.

If not, not the end of the world, can easily add m.2 storage using $20 adapters that fit into the pci-e slots. Looks like tons of those slots, and its a trivial matter to get 1 tb of m.2.

Another question floating around is whether one can put 3rd party ram into it. There is some thought that the T2 function will prevent 3rd party components, but I am sure anything goes in the pci-e slots.

My understanding right now, such as it is, is that the product announcement did not get specific on these matters, so folks can only guess until more info comes out.

Also, I note that some kind of political deal has been struck where apple will have these built in texas, not asia, and the quid pro quo is some relief from tariffs on china sourced parts. Only relevant here if that means there will be a delay if manufacturing has to be moved from someplace else.
Old 24th September 2019
  #2367
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ponzi View Post
Did I miss something, or is there still some uncertainty as to whether ssd can be upgraded on the nmp, or is it soldered in. I guess then a question would be if it has some m.2 slots on the mobo.

If not, not the end of the world, can easily add m.2 storage using $20 adapters that fit into the pci-e slots. Looks like tons of those slots, and its a trivial matter to get 1 tb of m.2.

Another question floating around is whether one can put 3rd party ram into it. There is some thought that the T2 function will prevent 3rd party components, but I am sure anything goes in the pci-e slots.

My understanding right now, such as it is, is that the product announcement did not get specific on these matters, so folks can only guess until more info comes out.

Also, I note that some kind of political deal has been struck where apple will have these built in texas, not asia, and the quid pro quo is some relief from tariffs on china sourced parts. Only relevant here if that means there will be a delay if manufacturing has to be moved from someplace else.
The ssd's in the new mac pro look like they are apple ssds that are missing the controller, the controller is in the t2.
It's the same hardware as the imac pros have.

But as you say, there won't be any restriction to add m2 pcie cards and use them. Also ram is 100% user upgradeable, cpu we will see. But basically apple is punishing/get money from people who upgrade the system as they need, with the very high entry price.
Old 25th September 2019
  #2368
Quote:
Originally Posted by ponzi View Post
...I am not going to tie my fate to a company executing this strategy.
I fell exactly the same way about Microsoft...
Old 25th September 2019
  #2369
Gear Guru
 
UnderTow's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by 6strings View Post
https://appleinsider.com/articles/19...wns-on-mac-pro

Check your OS version. Seems there might be a virus targeting Avid/iLok? Still a lot of unknowns here...
This page puts the blame on the Google Chrome updater:

https://mrmacintosh.com/google-chrom...g-boot-issues/

It gives instructions on how to test whether your system is affected and how to fix it.

Alistair
Old 25th September 2019
  #2370
Sky
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Sky's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ponzi View Post
Did I miss something, or is there still some uncertainty as to whether ssd can be upgraded on the nmp, or is it soldered in. I guess then a question would be if it has some m.2 slots on the mobo.

If not, not the end of the world, can easily add m.2 storage using $20 adapters that fit into the pci-e slots. Looks like tons of those slots, and its a trivial matter to get 1 tb of m.2.

Another question floating around is whether one can put 3rd party ram into it. There is some thought that the T2 function will prevent 3rd party components, but I am sure anything goes in the pci-e slots.

My understanding right now, such as it is, is that the product announcement did not get specific on these matters, so folks can only guess until more info comes out.

Also, I note that some kind of political deal has been struck where apple will have these built in texas, not asia, and the quid pro quo is some relief from tariffs on china sourced parts. Only relevant here if that means there will be a delay if manufacturing has to be moved from someplace else.
I don’t think you’ve missed anything. While we don’t know the answers yet, being able to swap components is the reason why I may invest in NMP. My previous comment refers to Mac models that have been on the market in recent years, i.e. iMacs and laptops.

Sky
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