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At last: new Mac Pro!
Old 3 weeks ago
  #2311
Lives for gear
 
ponzi's Avatar
Back in the 90s, I was doing a development project using the mac quadra--at the time a powerful computer. The screen background was from a bitmap 8 pixels square that looked cool when tiled and I liked and used it for many years on windows computers. Yes, that's right, the windows background can be changed. Too bad flying toasters is no longer among us...
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At last: new Mac Pro!-mac.png 
Old 3 weeks ago
  #2312
Tui
Gear Guru
 
Tui's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by thehightenor View Post
Do you spend a lot of time looking at generic desktops and start menus?
Absolutely! My favourite pastime.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thehightenor View Post
Honestly, I really don't care if I'm on OSX or Windows, but I do get that you hate Windows!
Since we haven't got anything *real* to talk about - yet...

Seriously, I don't hate anything, let alone an OS. I find Windows fugly, but I wished it wasn't because there would at least be some competition in the looks department. Apple, pretty much, has a monopoly on good, sometimes even excellent, computer design, both hardware and software.

I had high hopes for Linux, but we all know how that went.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #2313
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tui View Post
Seriously, I don't hate anything, let alone an OS. I find Windows fugly, but I wished it wasn't because there would at least be some competition in the looks department. Apple, pretty much, has a monopoly on good, sometimes even excellent, computer design, both hardware and software.
To be clear I do like Apple, I'm typing this now on a lovely new iMac.

The fun entertainment part of my life including the wife and kids laptops, tablets and phones are ALL Apple devices!!
Old 3 weeks ago
  #2314
Lives for gear
 
~ufo~'s Avatar
When PT stopped running acceptably on my 2012 3.33 6-core Mac Pro a few years ago, I felt forced to check out alternative DAWs and so I did.
Some were windows only, I'd been interested in trying windows again (since it supports touch natively) so I decided to bootcamp away with win 8.1.

Running PT on the Mac Pro on Windows worked waaaaaaay better (since 2018.12 it's been pretty much on par).
So I started recording in PT on windows while I tested the other Daws on both OSes.

PT on windows runs fine. The clunky interface of win 8.1 bothers me a bit since it wastes a lot of pixels with unnecessary edges within edges. MacOS is better at that, even without going full screen.

That said, once you are in your DAW you hardly notice the OS you're on.
I definitely prefer MacOS over windows but with 8.1 and 10 it's hardly the night and day difference it once was.
I'd prefer to run a Mac, but I'll be okay on a PS.
Since Apple don't currently make a Mac I'm interested in and haven't since I bought the 2012 Mac Pro, I guess I'll just build a PC.
I might try hackintosh, I might not.

Like another poster said, MacOS both have their pros and cons list, they both get the job done too.
I prefer Mac, but windows is perfectly acceptable nowadays, and offers a lot more freedom.

Being able to build two PCs (making one fully redundant system) for less than the money of the base model 2019 Mac Pro, which will probably perform significantly better than the Mac Pro, is the kind of freedom I think I could enjoy.

Come to think of it, I think I preferred the trashcan Mac Pro price performance ratio and form factor.
If they build a 9900KS mac mini / trashcan pro hybrid with 1 GPU for 2-2.5k I might buy it. But they probably won't.

I'll build a PC which will likely beat the 6k Mac Pro for little more than what the current 6-core i7 Mac Mini costs.

The Mac Pro is not for me anymore, I accepted that before they released it. I think some of you should do the same.
I still enjoy discussing it though :D
Old 3 weeks ago
  #2315
Lives for gear
 
ponzi's Avatar
When it comes to handy gadgets, apple has things locked down as far as I can see. I am using an iphone5, and it has its issues, but from people I talked to, the androids suck just as much when it comes to not having control over the programs installed and so on. I use a mac mini--maybe 2010--the last one that has a dvd drive in it--as the dvd and internet interface to my large screen tv. I even bought a screwdriver kit and installed an ssd in it a couple of years ago. Now, people bitch about windows forced updates, but it seems like every time I turn on my mini, there is another update to apply and re-boot. No biggie.

For my parents, who are extremely computer illiterate, I got an imac and it has been perfect for them. the all in one form factor, combined with wireless mouse and keyboard did wonders for the clutter on a small desk. I like my ipad well enough, even though lack of a usb socket is a real pain in the butt. And the way ios makes it difficult to manage ones files is another pain in the butt. However, I have looked around and did not see a competitive device for a good price.

As to my personal desktop, I saw the writing on the wall regarding the mac pro a couple of years ago and switched from my mac pro 5,1 (with cpu upgrade) to a windows based daw. This new mac pro announcement has re-enforced my sense that I made the right decision--for my situation. I put together the system in my signature for about $1,500--I build my own--and its all I need. I have two 1920 x 1200 monitors from dell. I tried a 4k and did not like it. I don't like to look up and down to see a large monitor up close, side to side works best. I could have pursued a hackintosh, but my experience had been that if they work, and the slightest little thing goes wrong, I am not able to fix them. I have a pc in the basement that has hardware that is supported by tonymacx86, but I felt that was just delaying my move to a permanent target environment.

I don't believe I have ever had a windows crash/blue screen in windows 10, nor 8.1 before it. Of course, the desktop can be visually customized, but if I had strong enough emotional bonds to apple, I guess I could pretend it cannot be customized. I suppose someone makes a widget that looks like the apple program launch bar, but I never liked it anyway.

I do love the form factor of the mac mini, and I don't see anything comparable in windows land. Its just a bit too expensive and not quite enough horsepower for me. If they just made the dam think two inches taller or wider, imagine what a monster it could be--probably fill that gap that people are seeing between what they have now and the too-much new mac pro. Maybe in a decade or so I might get so infirm I have to leave my house and get a room in a nursing home--at that point, the mini might be just the ticket... When I got this recent pc, it is wider to fit the taller noctua cpu fan, and I got more sturdy metal for the case, so its as big and heavy a mini tower as I have ever had. No regrets, not a space issue in the room....

Last edited by ponzi; 3 weeks ago at 09:02 PM..
Old 3 weeks ago
  #2316
Lives for gear
 
lowkey's Avatar
 

I hope you don’t have an iPhone or iPad

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sascha Franck View Post
No, if they also did the CPUs, I wouldn't complain all day long. I would complain during the night as well.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #2317
Lives for gear
@ ~ufo~

Quote:
That said, once you are in your DAW you hardly notice the OS you're on.
+1

My sentiments exactly.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #2318
Lives for gear
 
Crazy4Jazz's Avatar
 

Countless comments pointing out that Mac Mini is good for audio. Mac Pros are a bit overkill. To each their own.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #2319
Lives for gear
 
Arksun's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tui View Post
Interesting... To me, OS X is the primary reason I'm sticking with Mac. Windows still looks like a torture chamber to me.
Opposite for me, Windows is far more pleasant experience than OSX, and more customisable in its look as well. Also Apple OS updates do seem to have a nasty habit of rendering their devices way slower, noticed this with both iOS and OSX. Made the mistake of upgrading OSX on my Mac Mini a few times and now its running way slower.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #2320
Tui
Gear Guru
 
Tui's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arksun View Post
Made the mistake of upgrading OSX on my Mac Mini a few times and now its running way slower.
This is odd, it shouldn't be happening. I never noticed any slowdowns after upgrading my Macs in 2 decades.

Mind you, I typically do a clean install of any new OS, such as recently when I upgraded my 2012 Mini to Mojave. It is more work, of course - much more - but it is worth it. No odd behaviour, and certainly no slowdowns.

I am currently running Mojave on a 2012 Mini, a 2014 MBA and a 2018 Mini. No problems whatsoever.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #2321
Lives for gear
 
Arksun's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tui View Post
This is odd, it shouldn't be happening.
You're right it shouldn't, but you'll find plenty other examples of other people experiencing the same thing online with Mac Minis if you look on forums, so it's not that unusual.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tui View Post
Mind you, I typically do a clean install of any new OS,
So the standard Apple upgrade path is broken and I need to fresh install of everything from scratch? yikes.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #2322
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arksun View Post
Opposite for me, Windows is far more pleasant experience than OSX, and more customisable in its look as well. Also Apple OS updates do seem to have a nasty habit of rendering their devices way slower, noticed this with both iOS and OSX. Made the mistake of upgrading OSX on my Mac Mini a few times and now its running way slower.
+1

I've definately noticed some older iOS devices slowing down after an upgrade!
Old 3 weeks ago
  #2323
Tui
Gear Guru
 
Tui's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arksun View Post
So the standard Apple upgrade path is broken and I need to fresh install of everything from scratch? yikes.
Not necessarily. Apple recommend standard upgrades rather than clean install, and for the vast majority of users this appears to be sufficient.

However, people like us, or "power users", often have several, if not dozens of unusual bits of software installed that may not be fully compatible with a new OS, or the process of installation. Think about it: On our machines, we have MIDI and audio drivers that install risky .kext files which sit deep inside the OS and have the potential of messing things up at the best of times.

Do I need to mention iLok?

For example, on the MBA I am typing this on, I have PACESupportFamily.kext and ZOOM UAC-2 USB Audio.kext in my Extensions folder, and I rarely use this machine for audio. On my studio machine, there would be several more by Roland, RME and who knows what else. If these files don't play nice during an OS upgrade, there's your first problem right there.

There are obscure launch daemons and support files that allow Waves Central and NI's Native Access to do their thing... There is a long list of software on our machines that typical Mac users never encounter.

On my 3 machines, there are also MenuMeters, TotalFinder and SMARTReporter which constantly operate in the background. There is more, but I think you get my point.

A clean install of current and compatible pieces of software pretty much guarantees a trouble-free user experience.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #2324
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arksun View Post
So the standard Apple upgrade path is broken and I need to fresh install of everything from scratch? yikes.
Not for me as it seems. I have once installed Leopard in 2007, updated to Snow Leopard in 2009 and went with it for over a decade by now on my Macbook. I did then use an image of that very system on the Mac Pro I bought some years later and only updated to Mountain Lion because that was a requirement to go all the way straight to El Capitan (and Mavericks wasn't available anymore). From there I went straight to High Sierra which I am still using. In a nutshell, the system I'm running right now still goes back to an initial install from back in 2007.
I did do several clean ups, some more elaborated ones included, some rather automated and performed by Onyx.
I never noticed any serious slowdowns after updating and cleaning up a bit.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #2325
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arksun View Post
You're right it shouldn't, but you'll find plenty other examples of other people experiencing the same thing online with Mac Minis if you look on forums, so it's not that unusual.




So the standard Apple upgrade path is broken and I need to fresh install of everything from scratch? yikes.
I have not done a fresh install in 8 years, even moving from one machine to another.
No problems at all. And certainly no slowdowns. Quite the opposite.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #2326
Lives for gear
 
Monkey Man's Avatar
 

I've known and heard of many folks who've done standard upgrades since Snow Leopard and most, if not all, claim that integer updates usually produce a boost in snappiness.

The iOS-slowdown thing that Apple admitted was a strategy to preserve battery power is unrelated and shouldn't be used as a straw man here IMHO.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #2327
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by ponzi View Post
I don't know enough to say for sure, but it looked like an alternative way to cluster servers together.
He does use VEP.

The only other game in town, (before VEP became the standard), was Bidule. Actually a lot of guys in LA used Bidule to do VEP's job a decade or more ago, but that's such ancient history now... Anyone running the kind of rig JXL does over a network is using VEP these days... It does what it does incredibly well and VSL keep improving it, (not to mention have dropped the price substantially...)



And he gets a stuck note at 1:50 lol. Happens to the best of em!
Old 3 weeks ago
  #2328
Lives for gear
 
Monkey Man's Avatar
 

The hung note would've been 'cause he disengaged the MIDI throughput before he released the note; he was in a hurry. At least, that's how that's happened to me in DP.

Curious:
Dumb question maybe, but doesn't he have or use track folders?
Old 3 weeks ago
  #2329
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkey Man View Post
The hung note would've been 'cause he disengaged the MIDI throughput before he released the note; he was in a hurry. At least, that's how that's happened to me in DP.

Curious:
Dumb question maybe, but doesn't he have or use track folders?
Seems about right...

And yeah I thought the same thing as well.... He does have some folders, his coloring scheme would drive me bananas though. I find it really difficult to keep track of big projects if I don't colorize all of the same instrument the same, or a shade of the same color... Strings are browns, brass yellows, etc.. Effects get colorized by frequency.. Deep/subby sounds get deep colors, bright things like risers and scrapes get bright colors... Anyway, I know what everything is while I scroll by...

Very much doubt his organization workflow is haphazard though... Just a different set of priorities, whatever his coloring scheme is based on...
Old 3 weeks ago
  #2330
Lives for gear
 
Monkey Man's Avatar
 

Thanks man.

I wondered if maybe Cubase didn't offer folders is all. Personally I couldn't live without 'em, so given the size of his templates I was surprised.

Did you notice he went to a menu to send the all-notes-off command? I've been AFK musically-speaking for a few years, but I remember the default in DP's being command-1 or command-period or something.

Couldn't live without that either. Maybe he hardly ever gets stuck notes.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #2331
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkey Man View Post
Curious:
Dumb question maybe, but doesn't he have or use track folders?
There's another video of him explaining his template pretty much in detail.
And from all I remember he does make quite some use of folders.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #2332
Lives for gear
 
Monkey Man's Avatar
 

Thanks Sascha.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #2333
Lives for gear
 
ponzi's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by zedsdeadbaby View Post
He does use VEP. ..
Nice to see that video, I saw it a long time ago and forgot most of the details. So, he is scaling out, and the only apple computers I see were a couple of cheesegraters running pro tools.

I can see junkiexl as being a person who could get the new mac pro, load it up with lots of ram and disk, and maybe replace some of his rack mount servers. Strikes me as one of the rare situations where a monster server like the upcoming nmp looks like it makes a lot of sense. OTOH, apple would be competing with windows based servers that already have the capacity to do that the upcoming mac pro can likely do. I imagine he would decide if osx has advantages for vep host, and work the numbers.

Also, from seeing his setup, the exact nature of the windows server hardware is not important as they all expose the same interface. and his server rack looks like a dog pound in terms of having many breeds--not at all unusual in server land.

Still a bit confused at how VEP and VSL (VST system link) work together, but too far off topic for here.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #2334
Gear Addict
 
juiseman's Avatar
 

I never could get VST system link working. I can't see this really being
useful to a workflow personally....

But yea, VEP and VSL they are entirely different.
VEP uses LAN and I guess VSL uses a ADAT or SPDIF
by removing 1 bit of audio and using that to transfer
data in a ring network...

VEP is basically Audio/MIDI over LAN from what I understand.


And good point, I'm not sure how you could use those both in tandem.
I'm sure there is a use, just can't think of one, seems like an ultra
confusing way to work.

I'm sure there are experts on here with a better explanation
of both.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #2335
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by juiseman View Post
I never could get VST system link working. I can't see this really being
useful to a workflow personally....

But yea, VEP and VSL they are entirely different.
VEP uses LAN and I guess VSL uses a ADAT or SPDIF
by removing 1 bit of audio and using that to transfer
data in a ring network...

VEP is basically Audio/MIDI over LAN from what I understand.


And good point, I'm not sure how you could use those both in tandem.
I'm sure there is a use, just can't think of one, seems like an ultra
confusing way to work.

I'm sure there are experts on here with a better explanation
of both.

I am running a windows slave (VSL) for some samples libraries to get the load of my studio iMac, i don't like the workflow of VSL at all. It is a hassle to start up the slave first, then open the project, if you mess up the order, the VSL Plugin in logic loses the connection and you have to reconnect.
Also, it is not possible without a big hack to change mic positions of sample libraries on the VSL Slave.
I see a benefit if you are JunkieXL and have a server room with servers, that run 24/7 but for "home use" VSL It is not that convenient.

So, I’m hoping the new Mac Pro will solve the VSL hassle for me :D
I can work much better if i can just load sample libraries as i need them and don't have to think about VSL slaves and templates. Even if that is the more expensive way. But get stuck by technical workarounds and starting slaves in killing the creativity. I also don’t like Logic sessions with hundreds of tracks that are empty and I don’t need but I have to have, because of a stupid template that connects to a slave.
For sound design with actual AU/VST Synts like Serum etc…, Slaves are also not very usable.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #2336
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dayvi View Post
I can work much better if i can just load sample libraries as i need them and don't have to think about VSL slaves and templates. Even if that is the more expensive way. But get stuck by technical workarounds and starting slaves in killing the creativity. I also don’t like Logic sessions with hundreds of tracks that are empty and I don’t need but I have to have, because of a stupid template that connects to a slave.
For sound design with actual AU/VST Synts like Serum etc…, Slaves are also not very usable.
I too hope for the new Mac Pro with PCIe SSDs... BUT it maybe bug-hell for the first months for early adopters... Catalina and a brand-new machine... could takes weeks to even start composing again...
Old 2 weeks ago
  #2337
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by r.staettler View Post
I too hope for the new Mac Pro with PCIe SSDs... BUT it maybe bug-hell for the first months for early adopters... Catalina and a brand-new machine... could takes weeks to even start composing again...
Did you see this.

https://www.pro-tools-expert.com/pro...macos-catalina
Old 2 weeks ago
  #2338
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by fastlanephil View Post
Scary. Usually with new OSX versions, it was more like "try at your own risk". Now it's more or less explicitely "Don't!".
Old 2 weeks ago
  #2339
Lives for gear
Texas, it is

https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2019/...made-in-texas/

"The value of American-made components in the new Mac Pro is 2.5 times greater than in Apple’s previous generation Mac Pro."

(btw. the current 2013 mac pro was produced in the same factory)
Old 2 weeks ago
  #2340
Lives for gear
 
ponzi's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sascha Franck View Post
Scary. Usually with new OSX versions, it was more like "try at your own risk". Now it's more or less explicitely "Don't!".
Isn't this the same thing that avid does for every release of osx--advise customers not to use it until they have had a chance to verify it works?
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