The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 All  This Thread  Reviews  Gear Database  Gear for sale     Latest  Trending
At last: new Mac Pro!
Old 4 weeks ago
  #2281
Lives for gear
 
zephonic's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy4Jazz View Post
Nobody flinches at 10k monitors but a 10 k computer sends people into convulsions.
Fair enough. But your $10K speakers will have a serviceable lifespan of what, 20 years? Almost certainly more with proper care and maintenance.

I think we all know that's unlikely to be the case with any computer, regardless of price.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #2282
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by zedsdeadbaby View Post
Right, but why pair a $3000 mobo with a wimpy 8 core processor?

To be honest I find it naive, if not insulting that they would do this. IMO all skepticism is warranted...
It’s funny that we can say a 8 core chip is actually whimpy but yeah I kind of agree with you, they probably should’ve started at 12 core for that price, I’d love to see a component breakdown done by Apple, also agree that a single 256GB SSD on a system that is built for RAID, they should’ve started at 512GB.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #2283
Lives for gear
 
Chevron's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by thehightenor View Post
I'm ready for a new system this fall.

I mainly use Cubase pro 10 on a 6 core PC (and have Logic X on a decent new iMac.)

For £3,500 I can buy a new PC workstation,

16 core i9
64GB DDR4 RAM
2x 1TB M.2 motherboard SSD
2 x Audio drives
I hear you on the i9 processor being a good option for a DAW computer and I also wish there was a scaled down Mac Pro, but it's not comparable to the Xeon processors in cost or price, and their ability to use ECC RAM.

Check out the New Logic Benchmark thread here for a real world example - despite the difference in Geekbench benchmark scores between the i9 iMac and the Xeon 8 Core iMac Pro - the base iMac Pro performs better. 120 to 130 tracks for the i9 iMac and 160 to 170 for the iMac Pro - even though the i9 has a higher clock speed.

This may be like comparing the top speeds of cars which you will never get close to and in which case other factors come in to play, but it's absolutely a factor when i choose my next computer.....
Old 4 weeks ago
  #2284
Gear Addict
 
juiseman's Avatar
 

Yea, 12 cores seems like a better base model. They are also kind of by the ballz
of Intel and their line up.

Its going to be kind of strange that on the PC side you will be able to get 16 cores soon in a non-HEDT platform. And just wait for the HEDT CPU's by early
2020. That's why I keep saying that the 7,1 NMP is already behind the curve
for its CPU power and its not out yet!!
Don't get me wrong, the W Xeons are not a weak CPU...I'm just saying that Apple will have to update the CPU power to stay completive especially if their target is the Video/CGI/CAD crowd.
Maybe that's why they added the accelerator card and the ability to
run some serious GPU/Compute power?
I guess we will see...


yes, High Sierra is pretty good for me also, seems pretty rock solid.
I have never had a crash on my 5,1 on anything....
Old 4 weeks ago
  #2285
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chevron View Post
I hear you on the i9 processor being a good option for a DAW computer and I also wish there was a scaled down Mac Pro, but it's not comparable to the Xeon processors in cost or price, and their ability to use ECC RAM.

Check out the New Logic Benchmark thread here for a real world example - despite the difference in Geekbench benchmark scores between the i9 iMac and the Xeon 8 Core iMac Pro - the base iMac Pro performs better. 120 to 130 tracks for the i9 iMac and 160 to 170 for the iMac Pro - even though the i9 has a higher clock speed.

This may be like comparing the top speeds of cars which you will never get close to and in which case other factors come in to play, but it's absolutely a factor when i choose my next computer.....
That's interesting, do Xeon processors run Cubase Pro 10 better as well as Logic X?

There are Xeon options at Scan Systems where I buy my workstations, the starting price is £3.7k for 2 x 12 core Xeon CPU and 64GB RAM - how does this compare to the NMP base model?

There appears to be £1300 between Scan and Apple NMP base models - which might make the NMP a bit more tempting in case I want to run Logic X a bit more.

That said, I'm sure I'll be more than happy with a 9900X i9 system for £3k .... way cheaper than an Xeon system by Scan or Apple.

Sheesh - when did computers get so expensive!!

Last edited by thehightenor; 4 weeks ago at 12:45 PM..
Old 4 weeks ago
  #2286
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by thehightenor View Post
That's interesting, do Xeon processors run Cubase Pro 10 better as well as Logic X?

There are Xeon options at Scan Systems where I buy my workstations, the starting price is £3.7k for 2 x 12 core Xeon CPU and 64GB RAM - how does this compare to the NMP base model?

There appears to be £1300 between Scan and Apple NMP base models - which might make the NMP a bit more tempting in case I want to run Logic X a bit more.

That said, I'm sure I'll be more than happy with a 9900X i9 system for £3k .... way cheaper than an Xeon system by Scan or Apple.

Sheesh - when did computers get so expensive!!
You might get a good system but it will never be as inegrated as an Apple system, they make everything, the hardware, the OS and the applications. Everything is perfectly made for one another on the new Mac Pro, any system you buy off Scan Systems is off the shelf components.

Not saying they are bad by any mean, or that you can't get a cheaper computer with more processing power, but it's no Mac Pro. I was talking to someone the other day who bought system, from Scan Systems and their wireless mouse and keyboard was audible when you moved the mouse around. It didn't happen with their MBP.

I'm a big Mac fan, I'm right into their eco system, if I could bare to part with $10,000 for the Mac Pro configuration I know it would be amazing but I don't earn my money from working from home, maybe one day soon though
Old 4 weeks ago
  #2287
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ekwipt View Post
You might get a good system but it will never be as inegrated as an Apple system, they make everything, the hardware, the OS and the applications.
Oh, so Apple is making those Xeons, their RAM and their SSDs themselves? Now, that's news to me.
Or what about the GPUs, USB/TB controllers, etc - all Apple as well? Amazing!
Old 4 weeks ago
  #2288
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sascha Franck View Post
Oh, so Apple is making those Xeons, their RAM and their SSDs themselves? Now, that's news to me.


I stand by what I said, it's a more integrated system, what's your point exactly?
Old 4 weeks ago
  #2289
Lives for gear
 
lowkey's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sascha Franck View Post
Oh, so Apple is making those Xeons, their RAM and their SSDs themselves? Now, that's news to me.
Or what about the GPUs, USB/TB controllers, etc - all Apple as well? Amazing!
Even if they did you’d still complain about them all day long
Old 4 weeks ago
  #2290
Gear Addict
 
juiseman's Avatar
 

lol...Apple is not magical, they use off the shelf components too, just on a custom engineered motherboard and chassis.
And they control the software drivers to
get it to work together. But there still are issues obviously.

It is kind of amazing there are not more issues with PC's given the vast
amount of 3rd party hardware and configurations. Most stuff DOES work
95% of the time. This works because 8 different venders are using the same
chips most of the time. They just interface that chip (or sets of chips) on a
board and sell it. A lot of the designs are carbon copied so there isn't that much
variation between them. But I would say that Apple Products work a good 97%-99% of the time. But also have some serious design flaws.
Most of them are related to heat issues. I guess test's because they think everyone
wants a small girl looking Phone or Laptop? For, I want stuff that looks powerful
and sturdy...that's why I love my 5,1 MP and my 3 foot high PC....looks impressive...
Old 4 weeks ago
  #2291
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by ekwipt View Post
You might get a good system but it will never be as inegrated as an Apple system, they make everything, the hardware, the OS and the applications. Everything is perfectly made for one another on the new Mac Pro, any system you buy off Scan Systems is off the shelf components.

Not saying they are bad by any mean, or that you can't get a cheaper computer with more processing power, but it's no Mac Pro. I was talking to someone the other day who bought system, from Scan Systems and their wireless mouse and keyboard was audible when you moved the mouse around. It didn't happen with their MBP.

I'm a big Mac fan, I'm right into their eco system, if I could bare to part with $10,000 for the Mac Pro configuration I know it would be amazing but I don't earn my money from working from home, maybe one day soon though
Yes I do like the Apple eco system for my office space I have an new iMac and for entertainment with the kids and wife iphones, ipads etc iOS is great - they make lovely devices no question.

In my studio running Cubase and legacy hardware Windows has been brilliant at keeping older hardware going where it would of been redundant with a Mac - so up until now my wallet prefers PC in the studio.

Just to be clear - I've have had 3 Scan 3XS systems and they have all functioned 100% perfectly over very long time spans - the after sales service is first class too - just thought I should say that as they have stood by me over the years.

That said I personally find no difference between Windows 10 and OSX - they're just modern OS that work - I couldn't give a hoot about the brand.

If I can determine a new Mac Pro is the best tool for me going forward I might be prepared to find the money, as I like the ides of being able to run Cubase and sometimes Logic X in my studio space.

I'm still researching my options.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #2292
Tui
Gear Guru
 
Tui's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by thehightenor View Post
That said I personally find no difference between Windows 10 and OSX - they're just modern OS that work - I couldn't give a hoot about the brand.
Interesting... To me, OS X is the primary reason I'm sticking with Mac. Windows still looks like a torture chamber to me.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #2293
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tui View Post
Interesting... To me, OS X is the primary reason I'm sticking with Mac. Windows still looks like a torture chamber to me.
OMG .... what do you use it for !!!!
Old 4 weeks ago
  #2294
Tui
Gear Guru
 
Tui's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by thehightenor View Post
OMG .... what do you use it for !!!!
Huh..? I don't use Windows at all, if I can help it.

Seriously, with respect to graphical representations and general tidiness, OS X is still in a league of its own. Sadly, since this also means there is no real competition and Apple can rack up the prices for their pretty little computers ad infinitum.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #2295
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tui View Post
Huh..? I don't use Windows at all, if I can help it.


.
Huh ..? Well then how do you know it's a "torture chamber" .... ;-)
Don't believe everything you read on the internet

I use both OSX and Windows 10 day in and day out - they both have a pro's and con's column.

Frankly, I care not for brands only that they get the job done - which they both, on the whole, do very elegantly.

Not really anymore I can add to this, of course YMMV.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #2296
Lives for gear
 
ponzi's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by thehightenor View Post
That's interesting, do Xeon processors run Cubase Pro 10 better as well as Logic X?...
To my knowledge, xeon is a product packaging concept which indicates that the underlying cpu product is geared toward server systems with its feature set. Typically, fixed clock, no OC, no built in video or minimally functional, and supports ECC ram. I had a xeon based daw up until recently--and unusually, had built in video. I do not believe it would run software products faster than an equally benchmarked retail package. It runs the same instruction set as its retail counterparts.

To the extent a xeon based system is faster, I would expect that to be from the overall motherboard/disk and maybe ram, architecture which may have a more powrful chipset. ECC ram is not faster, per se, but can catch and fix single bit errors, IIRC. I liked having ECC ram, but I had no idea if it ever fixed any errors or how many errors my non-ecc ram gets.

The only two mobos I can recall failing were both server-type models that supported a xeon cpu and ecc ram, so I chose not to spend more this time around. My path to a xeon based daw was indirect as I originally set it up as a virtual machine host for playing around with at home. When that project ended, I turned it into a daw since it had a pretty powerful cpu (xeon 1276).

Having said all that, knowing nothing else about a computer, I would presume a xeon based model would be higher quality and more money for the horsepower.

The xeon line has some really powerful cpus that are not retail available--24/32 cores. Those are what is used in the cisco blade servers I use at work.

Last edited by ponzi; 4 weeks ago at 03:47 PM..
Old 4 weeks ago
  #2297
Here for the gear
 

Mac N PC

I have a 2018 MB pro best cpu w 32gb and a pc I built with a i7 4790 16gb desktop.

What I have experienced is this - no matter how deep I go to try and find why my buffer settings have to be so high with the PC with the same amount of plugins I can never run lower than 1024 buffer at 96khz with a bunch of massive x and kontakt library instances.

With my MacBook Pro I can run at 128buffer with no dropouts.

I’m not saying this is a fair comparison. But when I choose a machine to compose with I leave it to the MacBook Pro.

Because of this experience, I do believe apple integrates their hardware more efficiently with the software ecosystem - and they had better be able to do better than I as I’m no IT guy.

Last edited by GearinUp; 4 weeks ago at 03:36 PM.. Reason: Update
Old 4 weeks ago
  #2298
Here for the gear
 

It looks great. And the specifications are drool-worthy. I would imagine it would run amazingly fast too, but it's beyond my needs at the moment. Would love to see one in action but.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #2299
Lives for gear
 
ponzi's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by GearinUp View Post
...Because of this experience, I do believe apple integrates their hardware more efficiently with the software ecosystem - and they had better be able to do better than I as I’m no IT guy.
Is it possible that the difference is actually due to different cpu, different amount of ram, and presumably different io interface and drivers?
Old 4 weeks ago
  #2300
Lives for gear
 
Chevron's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by thehightenor View Post
That's interesting, do Xeon processors run Cubase Pro 10 better as well as Logic X?

There are Xeon options at Scan Systems where I buy my workstations, the starting price is £3.7k for 2 x 12 core Xeon CPU and 64GB RAM - how does this compare to the NMP base model?

There appears to be £1300 between Scan and Apple NMP base models - which might make the NMP a bit more tempting in case I want to run Logic X a bit more.

That said, I'm sure I'll be more than happy with a 9900X i9 system for £3k .... way cheaper than an Xeon system by Scan or Apple.

Sheesh - when did computers get so expensive!!
I honestly couldn't tell you if Cubase would run better on a Xeon based system - and I am not sure it is just the processor that makes the difference in the Xeon equipped Apple Macs. Why not ask Steinberg?

The chief point is that on specs alone the i9/i7 vs Xeon debate favours the former, but in real world usage for Logic and Pro Tools these 'Pro' system with Xeons have extra muscle that is reflected in the DAW Benchmarks and my experience.

Haha yes, it seems they are getting expensive. Food for thought though, the 12 core 5,1 Mac Pro in 2012 was mighty expensive, in the region of £5k new and the top spec Trashcan was even more expensive - and I imagine the base 8 Core 2019 Mac Pro would out perform both for not much more ££s...

I generally think you will be fine with a 9900X i9 system, of course I don't know your needs but it's a top spec machine along the lines of the i9 iMac, and those are mighty powerful. If I could get with the form factor I probably would go for an iMac but I prefer easy upgradability and not being tethered to the monitor
Old 4 weeks ago
  #2301
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ponzi View Post
Is it possible that the difference is actually due to different cpu, different amount of ram, and presumably different io interface and drivers?
Of course it could be - hence my directly stated caveat that it may not be a fair comparison. Same IO though.

It’s the small things that add up. Things such as unplugging a midi device can freeze my PC daw (same daw) and creates no issues on Mac. Again, I’m no IT guy but it can be helpful to not have to concern yourself with these issues. Is this always the case? Of course not. But IN MY EXPERIENCE Mac does ‘just work’ more often than pc.

Also - the Mac cpu has less power than pc and the pc had more ram. Although these will have differing effects I sure don’t see how it should create a vast magnitude of difference of 128 (mac) and 1024 (pc) buffer size. That’s quite the difference - especially when you’re playing virtual instruments.

Now - do I hate that MBP fan blasting full tilt while composing? Dear god it’s awful - 1 point for desktop pc stuffed in another room no noise. How much would I have to pay for Mac desktop stuffed in another room - apparently Mac Pro prices which is overpriced on the low end in my opinion. Therefore - I’ll be voting with, or in this case without, my $.

Seriously considered iMac but hooking it to a separate screen and hiding away in another room...seems like a shame to waste that 5k monitor though.

On the whole - yes - these are expensive machines.

Last edited by GearinUp; 4 weeks ago at 04:29 PM.. Reason: Update
Old 4 weeks ago
  #2302
Tui
Gear Guru
 
Tui's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by thehightenor View Post
Huh ..? Well then how do you know it's a "torture chamber" .... ;-)
Don't believe everything you read on the internet
But I so much want to believe!

Well, I guess you can't argue about taste, however...



Old 4 weeks ago
  #2303
Lives for gear
 
ponzi's Avatar
Rather than get into this further, I will incorporate by reference all 10 million pages of mac versus pc debate from all corners of the internet in the last 20 years including this thread.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #2304
Tui
Gear Guru
 
Tui's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ponzi View Post
Rather than get into this further, I will incorporate by reference all 10 million pages of mac versus pc debate from all corners of the internet in the last 20 years including this thread.
We haven't had one in a while, have at it!

Only kidding.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #2305
Lives for gear
 
ponzi's Avatar
There is a cycle in this thread--well really all mac threads. Folks get tired of speculating about a computer that exists only on paper that most will not buy, so a few 'mac is better comments' creep in (It just works). The windows types return fire, and its full blown mac versus pc for a few pages, then there are righteous declarations that windows types have no legitimate reason to talk pc in a mac thread, and then it settles back down to speculating about an announced, but not delivered, product until people get tired....
Old 4 weeks ago
  #2306
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by lowkey View Post
Even if they did you’d still complain about them all day long
No, if they also did the CPUs, I wouldn't complain all day long. I would complain during the night as well.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #2307
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ekwipt View Post


I stand by what I said, it's a more integrated system, what's your point exactly?
What exactly is so integrated with a Mac?
Have you ever heard about Hackintoshs? Maybe not, it defenitely looks like.
They're running OSX just fine (as fine as it gets that is) on mere generic computing hardware.
So, rather than answering what my point is, I'd like to know about your point - what's so "integrated"?
Old 4 weeks ago
  #2308
Lives for gear
 
ponzi's Avatar
That's right Luke... Feeel the dark side of the force within you, let it make you strong!

Last edited by ponzi; 4 weeks ago at 06:31 PM..
Old 4 weeks ago
  #2309
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by thehightenor View Post
I'm ready for a new system this fall.

I mainly use Cubase pro 10 on a 6 core PC (and have Logic X on a decent new iMac.)

For £3,500 I can buy a new PC workstation,

16 core i9
64GB DDR4 RAM
2x 1TB M.2 motherboard SSD
2 x Audio drives

I have a feeling this spec in the new Mac Pro would be closer to £7,000.

So unfortunately, much as I'd love to buy a NMP, as I need this kind of spec, the NMP price structure is unaffordable for me.

An iMac pro is out, as I use a 34" ultra wide screen.
The Mac mini is no more powerful than the PC I'm using now.
I don't like using a MBP in a studio setting.

It would been great if Apple had an in between "project studio" tower.

I guess I represent a tiny segment of buyers!
I am also in this tiny segment. Also using a PC, despite our house having more Macs in it than people.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #2310
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tui View Post
But I so much want to believe!

Well, I guess you can't argue about taste, however...



Do you spend a lot of time looking at generic desktops and start menus?

Guess we all use our computers differently

I only have Cubase on my screen so I don't notice the OS running it.

I did say YMMV and clearly it does

Honestly, I really don't care if I'm on OSX or Windows, but I do get that you hate Windows!
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Forum Jump
Forum Jump