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At last: new Mac Pro!
Old 12th June 2019
  #961
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikael B View Post
So your argument here is that Apple products are seldom stolen when inside locks and that there are no burglaries specifically made to steal expensive Apple machines? This is what you're saying?
Apple stuff never gets stolen. When the Best Buy I worked for years ago moved locations, no one climbed up on the building the week before we opened and broke in through the ceiling right above where the MacBook stock was kept and bailed with a crapload of em..
Old 12th June 2019
  #962
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleted 4adc64a View Post
Whooooosh. The point I was making was that you're extrapolating from a sample size that hasn't complained that the entire population would not. Hasty generalization fallacy, if you're interested in learning more about it. Nothing to do with sockets.
You're making no sense.

Vin is simply pointing out that people that work with video professionally have bought workstations that cost less than these 6k and were happy with that, and that Apple could have created an equivalent as well.

It's not like video professionals that use OSX have different hardware needs than those that use Windows in terms of processing and expandability requirements. If (for example) you're running Resolve and need to color in rec 709 and deliver HD (1080p) and you're running your media optimized there are certain requirements on the GPU, and certain requirements on the storage subsystem. Those don't drastically change just because you choose OSX over Windows. If you can grade with one 1080TI on Windows it's the same on a Mac. If you need a slot for a Blackmagic card for SDI output then it's the same on both. CPU speed and core count... same...

So I think you can probably trust Vin on this. Plenty of video professionals would have been happy with a 3-4k entry level expandable Mac Pro, even if it wouldn't expand as far as the current one. Not all, but a large amount.

PS: I often disagree with Vin but I sure wouldn't bet on me being right over him when it comes to sales stats.... You know what he does for a living, yes? If you don't do what he does you too would do well to give him some credit on this.
Old 12th June 2019
  #963
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monotremata View Post
Apple stuff never gets stolen. When the Best Buy I worked for years ago moved locations, no one climbed up on the building the week before we opened and broke in through the ceiling right above where the MacBook stock was kept and bailed with a crapload of em..
Well I'm glad you can make a fun joke as a refutation of what nobody ever claimed. And I will give you props for pointing out that those Best Buy Macs were somehow already preloaded with sensitive data, so I guess that proves the point that this guy is worth 6k.

We're doing really good this week.
Old 12th June 2019
  #964
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lowkey's Avatar
 

Agreed. I’ve got a 256SSD in my Mac Mini for apps and OS X. I have an external 1TB SSD for audio files, music library and photos. If I go to a friend studio I just take the external drive with me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rezoneight View Post
How much space do you think macOS actually takes? I just installed a second copy of Mojave on my startup drive to update to Catalina beta. My startup drive is 256gb. Still have plenty of space even with a lot of dev tools and other apps installed on the main Mojave volume.

Not saying they shouldn’t have made the default bigger but the intent for that drive is for the OS, apps, and user folder.
Old 12th June 2019
  #965
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TAFKAT's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mattiasnyc View Post
Vin is simply pointing out that people that work with video professionally have bought workstations that cost less than these 6k and were happy with that, and that Apple could have created an equivalent as well.
Yep, whoosh alright, straight over his head.., LOL !!

The point was more so the actual assertion that anything below what was delivered with the new MP would be considered non professional enough by video professional, what ever that is supposed to mean, and that the 2066 platform is used by a huge number of Professionals.

The point of entry for the new MP dollar for dollar against the $US is $8630.00AU on todays exchange. I have no idea what that will be at launch or whether we still have to add 10% GST locally, that would place above $9KAU for the base model. Video Professionals can get a lot of CPU/GPU/Memory for $9KAU

Quote:
It's not like video professionals that use OSX have different hardware needs than those that use Windows in terms of processing and expandability requirements.
Exactly, the requirements are identical, Adobe Suite, AVID, Resolve, etc, are just a few that come to mind that are cross platform and widely used by both camps.

I seriously don't get the resistance , I was actually agreeing with the consensus here that Apple could easily have delivered a Professional solution that could cater to a far wider professional creative pool, across all disciplines, as they have the platform options to do it at several levels, as do the HP/Dell, etc.

Old 12th June 2019
  #966
Deleted 4adc64a
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattiasnyc View Post
PS: I often disagree with Vin but I sure wouldn't bet on me being right over him when it comes to sales stats.... You know what he does for a living, yes? If you don't do what he does you too would do well to give him some credit on this.
Why are you both shifting goalposts? I never said anything about sales stats or sockets. Vin rudely called "BS" and based that in part on an extrapolated a statement about video professionals (of which I am one, thank you very much) from a clearly limited sample that was untrue. I pointed that out.

What is it about people on online forums that makes them much more likely to double down on ignorance than actually learn from others?
Old 12th June 2019
  #967
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleted 4adc64a View Post
Why are you both shifting goalposts? I never said anything about sales stats or sockets. Vin rudely called "BS" and based that in part on an extrapolated a statement about video professionals (of which I am one, thank you very much) from a clearly limited sample that was untrue.
I suppose to me it's a bit odd that you complain that his sample is limited yet it's supposedly not about sales stats. I'm literally talking about what stats he's privy to as a person who is in the business of providing workstations to people. To me that's the same thing.

I don't discount your opinions as a professional, but you're a sample of one person. We can ask Vin what his sample size is, unless you can tell me what it is if you already know.

You now completely ignored what his actual point was which he has explained more than once now. It's about video professionals not complaining about a cheaper base model. That's what he was responding to.

It makes no sense to say that Mac users in the video profession need vastly more capacity in a Mac than a Windows machine lest they complain. I mean, if this was true then why wouldn't virtually all video pros just switch to Apple anyway to get that needed edge? Why would Windows systems keep selling if they're not what these people need? Or would they somehow only complain if such configurations come from Apple?

And so if there are quite a few video professionals that buy computers that sit below this Mac Pro in price and possibly features and are Windows machines then that isn't compatible with the thing that Vin actually responded to... And stats show if there's quite a few or not...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleted 4adc64a View Post
What is it about people on online forums that makes them much more likely to double down on ignorance than actually learn from others?
I'll let Vin talk about irony...
Old 12th June 2019
  #968
Deleted 4adc64a
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattiasnyc View Post
I suppose to me it's a bit odd that you complain that his sample is limited yet it's supposedly not about sales stats. I'm literally talking about what stats he's privy to as a person who is in the business of providing workstations to people. To me that's the same thing.
Vin's original post quoted this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by lowkey View Post
But then over at videosluts everyone would be complaining they still weren’t pro enough!
and said "BS."

That's not BS. That's a true statement, that I, as a videoslut, can 100% attest to.

Quote:
I don't discount your opinions as a professional, but you're a sample of one person. We can ask Vin what his sample size is, unless you can tell me what it is if you already know.
Doesn't matter what the size is, it wasn't big enough for him to understand that lowkeys statement was correct.


Quote:
I'll let Vin talk about irony...
Not really concerned about what you think is ironic, given your behavior in this thread.

I do want to thank you, though, for helping me understand that if I keep engaging with you then someday I too will accumulate 10,000 meaningless posts on an online forum. Adios!
Old 12th June 2019
  #969
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TAFKAT's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleted 4adc64a View Post
Why are you both shifting goalposts? I never said anything about sales stats or sockets. Vin rudely called "BS" and based that in part on an extrapolated a statement about video professionals (of which I am one, thank you very much) from a clearly limited sample that was untrue. I pointed that out.
Hang on, I wasn't shifting any goal posts, nor am I even debating sales stats. I have no idea or interest regards sales stats, and its irrelevant !

I called out the assertion that if Apple hadn't gone to the tier they did, then the video professionals would have considered it not pro enough.

Video professionals on both OS platforms have been utilizing workstations based on even lesser hardware platforms - current socket 1151 / Z370/390 - 9900K ( iMac ) , let alone Socket 2066 X299/C422 ( iMac Pro ).

I differentiate hardware platforms via socket/chipset , so the point was that I called BS that video professionals will be up in arms if Apple delivered desktop variants at those platform levels. They would instead be embraced , as evidenced by the sentiments being expressed by a large number of posters here.

You got your nose out of joint simply because you completely missed the point, and instead attacked me on my alleged lack of perspective.

Then enlighten us, what platform are you currently rocking for your Pro video gig, does it fall within the parameters I just noted , or are you rocking a trashcan or even older cheesegrator ?

Where is it lacking for you, and how will the new MP deliver where the other platforms can't ?

Quote:
What is it about people on online forums that makes them much more likely to double down on ignorance than actually learn from others?


Seriously ? !

Last edited by TAFKAT; 12th June 2019 at 05:31 AM.. Reason: Amended for clarity.
Old 12th June 2019
  #970
Deleted 4adc64a
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by TAFKAT View Post
Hang on, I wasn't shifting any goal posts, nor am I even debating sales stats. I have no idea or interest regards sales stats, and its irrelevant !
Tell that to your enforcer, mattias...

Quote:
I called out the assertion that if Apple hadn't gone to the tier they did, then the video professionals would have considered it not pro enough.

Video professionals on both platforms have been utilizing workstations based on even lesser platforms - current socket 1151 / Z370/390 - 9900K ( iMac ) , let alone Socket 2066 X299/C422 ( iMac Pro ).
What I'm really trying to help you understand is that, as in music, there are tiers of video professionals, with different demands. No one is compositing VFX on an iMac Pro. Maybe some dudes on YouTube, sure. But the delta between editing your Sony A7 footage for youtube and 8k RED footage for Netflix is worlds apart.

Quote:
I differentiate platforms via socket/chipset , so the point was that I call BS that video professionals will be up in arms if Apple delivered desktop variants at those platform levels. They would instead be embraced , as evidenced by the sentiments being expressed by a large number of posters here.
This is why I keep saying you have no perspective. Now you're citing gearslutz posters sentiments as "evidence" for video professionals' attitudes. To me that reveals that you really have no idea just how different the fields are, or the requirements.

Quote:
Then enlighten us, what platform are you currently rocking for your Pro video gig, does it fall within the parameters I just noted , or are you rocking a trashcan or even older cheesegrator ? Where is it lacking for you, and how will the new MP deliver where the other platforms can't ?
I'm using a hack because the existing Macs would not meet my needs.

There is a sector of video pros that want:

1. a MAC (you keep forgetting this part -- not everyone wants to use a PC)
2. to handle high res raw footage / compositing without resorting to proxy workflows which cost time and money

If you go cruise any of the highend video forums right now, half the people are complaining that these new machines are underpowered... There's a reason Apple is partnering with RED to offer additional acceleration hardware. This stuff is really demanding (and will only continue -- my system is starting to choke on 4k, 8k delivery will probably be standard in about 5 years).
Old 12th June 2019
  #971
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basehead617's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by rezoneight View Post
Not saying they shouldn’t have made the default bigger but the intent for that drive is for the OS, apps, and user folder.
As far as we know there's no additional storage options to configure the system with is there? So you're talking about needing external drives for a pro tower?

Or did I miss a bit of their released information?

I heard it will have up to 4 TB on a single drive, that's it.
Old 12th June 2019
  #972
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TAFKAT's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by danthonymusic View Post

What I'm really trying to help you understand is that, as in music, there are tiers of video professionals, with different demands. No one is compositing VFX on an iMac Pro. Maybe some dudes on YouTube, sure. But the delta between editing your Sony A7 footage for youtube and 8k RED footage for Netflix is worlds apart.
Sure, and where has anything I posted in conflict with that ? !

What system would they be doing that compositing on ?

Quote:
This is why I keep saying you have no perspective. Now you're citing gearslutz posters sentiments as "evidence" for video professionals' attitudes. To me that reveals that you really have no idea just how different the fields are, or the requirements.
I am citing the sentiments represented here by creative professionals that are respective to this forum / thread, which would translate to similar multiple tiers in video.

Quote:
I'm using a hack because the existing Macs would not meet my needs.
Cool , must be a monster spec !

So what hardware platform would that " Hack " be that is delivering the required headroom for your professional needs ?


Quote:
If you go cruise any of the highend video forums right now, half the people are complaining that these new machines are underpowered.
Right, damned if they do, damned if they don't. So its gone from video professionals would be complaining if they delivered anything below the tier of the new MP , to now its already being written off as underpowered.

They really can't win , and personally, I couldn't care less, the more dissension amongst the OSX diehards the better from my perspective :-)
Old 12th June 2019
  #973
Gear Nut
 
Wattsy's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by basehead617 View Post
As far as we know there's no additional storage options to configure the system with is there? So you're talking about needing external drives for a pro tower?

Or did I miss a bit of their released information?

I heard it will have up to 4 TB on a single drive, that's it.
There are dual slots for the proprietary drives and SATA connections + PCIe slots for internal expansion. Not to mention the 32TB slot in MPX raid module.

Last edited by Wattsy; 12th June 2019 at 06:56 AM.. Reason: Additional content
Old 12th June 2019
  #974
Haven’t read through all this thread, but I don’t understand all over emotional reactions to the price. Apple don’t know what each individual who says they can’t afford this or wouldn’t pay this much for it needs/wants. And 99% of those complaining about the price could easily get one of the other Apple Macs and get on with their lives, all be it with some adjustments to their set up and/or compromises. A lot of those moaning are just too stubborn to get out of their own way. To move forward there are always compromises, so if you’re in a position where you want to stick with Macs but need/want to upgrade, just pick the best match and get on with it.

Apple made the new Mac Pro for a sector that they believe will allow them get their return on investment and make good profits. Music production has been moving into home set ups with bare bones set ups for years, so they probably don’t see the home studio guy as a growing or stable sector, which is why they targeted the visual market instead of the audio. Also we’re too busy arguing down the quality needed for music production, and in the same breath we seem to enjoy higher and higher definition visuals. So where would the smart money go?

Regardless of that I think this Mac Pro is aimed at people who make business decisions about their computers and not those making emotional decisions about their computers.

The car I need is the new Bentley GT Continental coupe, but unfortunately I can only afford a BMW 4 Series coupe. I don’t hate on Bentley or Bentley owners because I can’t afford their cars. They’re not for me.
Old 12th June 2019
  #975
Deleted 4adc64a
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by TAFKAT View Post
Right, damned if they do, damned if they don't. So its gone from video professionals would be complaining if they delivered anything below the tier of the new MP , to now its already being written off as underpowered.
Okay, if you don't understand that the latter statement inherently includes/precludes the former then you're operating on a logical plane that I can't match. Cheers.
Old 12th June 2019
  #976
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TAFKAT's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleted 4adc64a View Post
Okay, if you don't understand that the latter statement inherently includes/precludes the former then you're operating on a logical plane that I can't match. Cheers.
We are definitely operating on different planes, I'll give you that , logic doesn't seem to be your strong suite tho.

What spec is your Hackintosh ?
Old 12th June 2019
  #977
Gear Maniac
 

As expected, some folk can never be pleased.

Too expensive they say.

Well guess what? The new MP wasn't created for most of us here!

I would guess that 90% of folks here could do nicely with a Mac Mini 6 core.

That's plenty capable for songwriters, and amateur and professional composers alike - unless you are needing to do very heavy and complex orchestral film scoring - and even then, you can freeze tracks and accomplish a hell of alot.
Old 12th June 2019
  #978
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by blayz2002 View Post
Haven’t read through all this thread, but I don’t understand all over emotional reactions to the price. Apple don’t know what each individual who says they can’t afford this or wouldn’t pay this much for it needs/wants. And 99% of those complaining about the price could easily get one of the other Apple Macs and get on with their lives, all be it with some adjustments to their set up and/or compromises. A lot of those moaning are just too stubborn to get out of their own way. To move forward there are always compromises, so if you’re in a position where you want to stick with Macs but need/want to upgrade, just pick the best match and get on with it.

Apple made the new Mac Pro for a sector that they believe will allow them get their return on investment and make good profits. Music production has been moving into home set ups with bare bones set ups for years, so they probably don’t see the home studio guy as a growing or stable sector, which is why they targeted the visual market instead of the audio. Also we’re too busy arguing down the quality needed for music production, and in the same breath we seem to enjoy higher and higher definition visuals. So where would the smart money go?

Regardless of that I think this Mac Pro is aimed at people who make business decisions about their computers and not those making emotional decisions about their computers.

The car I need is the new Bentley GT Continental coupe, but unfortunately I can only afford a BMW 4 Series coupe. I don’t hate on Bentley or Bentley owners because I can’t afford their cars. They’re not for me.
Bentley price point with a used Lexus inside.

It's obvious that Apple is struggling; to fill Steve Jobs shoes; not that I was a big fan of his paranoid propetary approach to business in the first place.

With the amount of cash that Apple got disposable laying there just collecting dust that they are sinking in and burning on that spaceship headquarters they got; I and others expect better.

Apple has a tendency to want to deliver Bentley prices for Volkswagen performance (even though I'm not a window guy; I know they will laugh when they read this)

Those making points like you are missing a big point I think.

Even if there are other options available for people like me; the ability to expand my first gen trash can and wait for Apple to start making it obsolete by pulling the updateability plug because of greed; it does not mean that Apple can not show some loyalty towards people that are CONSTANTLY being loyal to them with their wallets.

Apple is a company with shareholders; like the activist shareholders that want to change the elitist non-inclusive direction in which they are heading; which also happens to be symmetrically opposite of what the current leadership is steering towards right now.

I'll be damned if I cannot express my opinion on this product when I've spent so much money on their so-called "ecosystem".

With the human resources available to them; the R&D budgets and the cash they got collecting dust at their disposal they could actually innovate if they actually listen to their consumer base a little closer.

I; and many others; EXPECT Apple to do much better on all fronts.
Old 12th June 2019
  #979
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Usgggg View Post
I; and many others; EXPECT Apple to do much better on all fronts.
I actually don't know what I "expect" from them, possibly not much anymore.
But I certainly wish they would "get real" or something.

"See, we made this computer thinner and lighter. We're sure you will enjoy it *so* much that you won't mind it to cost a bit more. We're sure that you also will understand that you can't replace the internal drives anymore, but as a compensation we're offering nice upgrade options. Oh, and because your computer is now paperthin, we had to cut off a few expansion options, we also hope you'll understand that this comes at the cost of not being able to run it at full power for a longer period of time. Your Apple team."

And all that even if nobody asked for a thinner/lighter computer in the first place.
Old 12th June 2019
  #980
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philter View Post
Every other pc manufacturer gets the need for a workstation tower with PCI slots in the $1-2k range... this ain't rocket science, although it feels like it trying to get people to see the point. If they had come out with a tower for $3k it would be defensible I suppose. $6k? nope.
As if you represent every market segment on earth. I likely won't buy the Mac Pro, but I think it will sell. It ain't Rocket Science, as you rightly state. It's business!
Old 12th June 2019
  #981
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by TAFKAT View Post
…I was actually agreeing with the consensus here that Apple could easily have delivered a Professional solution that could cater to a far wider professional creative pool, across all disciplines, as they have the platform options to do it at several levels, as do the HP/Dell, etc.
I do wonder if one of the reasons they didn't try to compete at this "lower high-end" segment is because Hackintosh?
Old 12th June 2019
  #982
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Usgggg View Post
It's obvious that Apple is struggling; to fill Steve Jobs shoes; not that I was a big fan of his paranoid propetary approach to business in the first place.…
I think Steve jobs' way of doing business was great because magic products came out. What more relevant things can we ask for?
What are those ";" doing there? A comma and punctuation would do and the second sentence is seemingly part of the first and is not separate. The third sentence is a new sentence. Stylistic error to me. I probably do them too, but that stood out to the point of blurring your message.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Usgggg View Post
I; and many others; EXPECT Apple to do much better on all fronts.
Me too. I, like many others, do indeed expect Apple to do much better on all fronts. Problem is Apple might think they already do.
Old 12th June 2019
  #983
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikael B View Post
I do wonder if one of the reasons they didn't try to compete at this "lower high-end" segment is because Hackintosh?
I doubt that. It might have had an impact, but when I look around the folks I know, I see plenty of genuine Macs and very little Hackintoshs. Most people (including me) still prefer to use a somewhat older machine instead of a system that is unsupported. Not that I'd personally mind too much, but as I'm as well involved in some betatests and what not, I rather use something supported.
And once you're dealing with it on a professional level, you probably want an option to get official support, too.
Yeah, I'm sure that there's plenty of folks using Hackintoshs in professional environments, but I really doubt it's a significant enough amount of people to cause an impact on Apples R&D.

Possibly becomes more valid the other way around: People are using Hackintoshs because Apple is lacking of offers in the "lower high-end" segment.

And fwiw, should it still be possible to build an up to date Hackintosh in, say, 2-3 years from now, I'd expect that number to increase. At least it's something I will seriously consider once my old cheesegrater is rendered completely obsolete. I don't expect any decently priced (and spec'ed) 2nd hand new MPs to show up during the next 5-7 years.
Old 12th June 2019
  #984
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pops Martin View Post
Do they? What exactly would you do with this many PCIe slots, Thunderbolt 3 ports, etc. if the CPU supports 64 PCIe lanes only? Aaah, you can buy plenty of their accessories while not being aware of the automatic throttling just because there's not enough PCIe lanes to leverage the costly "power" of your system.

Like 4 times a 16x PCIe GPU … hell yeah, 64 PCIe lanes, exact match. But what about the Thunderbolt drives to feed the GPUs? What about the Afterburner card or any other expansions using lanes?
This is normal for all single socket systems since forever, especially the socket 1151 and smaller AMD chipsets are sharing resources all the time. GPU's rarely need all 16 lanes, even when gaming 8 mostly is enough. As I stated, I wonder whether they use PLX to handle lane management, it will be interesting to see what a fully expanded system behaves like with dual GPU, accelerator, additional storage options & Thunderbolt (x4 lanes per connection). It is definitely a weakness but it also depends on the actual workload. IMO the most important is that the lane management is smooth enough for it not to be a problem, rather than bandwidth limitation, which will be mainly noticeable with NVMe SSDs.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Philter View Post
Because from a working audio guy's point of view it's a tool, not a social welfare program for a giant corporation.
Now you are mixing a valid point (tool) with a judgement on the price. Either you want a Mac or you don't. If you don't, end of discussion. If you do, and you find it is too expensive for what it offers, get something else. I don't see where the need for component comparisons comes from.
The tool part is absolutely valid. But either you can and want to build your own tools, or you can't or don't want to, like most professionals, especially Mac users.

Quote:
We each have a certain set of tasks that we need to be able to do for our work.

From a working audio guy's point of view, it makes perfect sense to compare the Mac Pro to other computers that can do the job we need done.

From a working audio guy's point of view, who cares about Apple's overhead if a $2000 self build can do the job just as well as their $6000 box?
Sure you can compare it to other systems. But hasn't it been known for over a decade that if you can build your own system that you will be out cheaper than a Mac, alone by the price buildup I mentioned above? It is exactly the same with our systems. Either you can do it yourself if you want to, or you buy a ready made system. IMO 2 very different approaches, and typically 2 different kind of workstation users.

Quote:
Who cares if they built it out of unobtanium if it doesn't have any impact on how the job gets done? Do Apple's high overhead and the overbuilt spec somehow justify the Mac over cheaper alternatives that will perform the work equally well?
They have to make choices. They want to reach the top end of the market, so they used unobtanium for those who need it.

Quote:
It would be stupid to pay Apple $6000 for a machine because it costs them that much to make it. It would be stupid NOT to compare the Apple machine to other options.
But we all know Apple is not the cheapest, and we all know Apple is the richest company on the planet, that has to do with their markup (and probably taxes they don't pay).

You already know how to build your own system and you also seem fine to do so. This unit, just like HP's or our systems, are for those who can't or don't want to build their own system. All these people are well aware that buying a turnkey solution (although I don't see the Mac or HP as a turnkey system unless bought from a specialist retailer) costs more but also saves time and gives less headaches from start to end.

Quote:
Originally Posted by juiseman View Post
https://www.anandtech.com/show/14513...-pcie-30-lanes

This has some info about Intel's W-3200 series CPU's
used in the mac pro. Looks like another rebadged older chip


Skylake-SP based.....
As Vin stated, not rebadged, rather a refresh with a shift to another platform. We were quite shocked when we found out it did not stay on C422/LGA2066.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleted 4adc64a View Post
Just because everyone you work with wants to use a PC doesn't mean all video pros do. Your perspective is pretty limited in that respect.
I think you expressed this wrong to make your point, which I only understood in a later comment. I guess this is where the discussion started struggling...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikael B View Post
I do wonder if one of the reasons they didn't try to compete at this "lower high-end" segment is because Hackintosh?
I don't think Apple cares about hacks. Most hack users would not buy a Mac anyway as they can obviously build their own box and want to save money, which is the opposite of their loyal customer base. They want to offer a Formula 1 system for show and make money on consumer products, licenses and platform income (music & apps).
If they would offer a lower tier Mac Pro (additionally), they would only cannibalize their own iMacs and iMac Pros, but not offer a true competing product against hacks or even PCs. This way the iMacs keep their value as they are pretty unique still.
(I didn't say I like them )
Old 12th June 2019
  #985
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zephonic's Avatar
Man, this thread is a 2011 flashback. Even the arguments are the same.
Old 12th June 2019
  #986
Gear Addict
 
basehead617's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wattsy View Post
There are dual slots for the proprietary drives and SATA connections + PCIe slots for internal expansion. Not to mention the 32TB slot in MPX raid module.
I keep seeing references to that but can you point me to something that talks about this MPX raid storage? The official released information i saw only talks about the MPX expansion w/rt some multi graphics card setup.
Old 12th June 2019
  #987
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikael B View Post
I think Steve jobs' way of doing business was great because magic products came out. What more relevant things can we ask for?
What are those ";" doing there? A comma and punctuation would do and the second sentence is seemingly part of the first and is not separate. The third sentence is a new sentence. Stylistic error to me. I probably do them too, but that stood out to the point of blurring your message.



Me too. I, like many others, do indeed expect Apple to do much better on all fronts. Problem is Apple might think they already do.
I like errors and I break conventions.

I don't care if it's proper or not.

With regards to Steve Jobs we can credit him for everybody having a mobile phone in their pocket.

We can also credit him for being paranoid and the elitist non-inclusive culture he created within Apple which in the end has allowed the Android phones to have the majority of market share on the planet (trust me ";" not as annoying to you; as a lot of things on this little planet are to me).

Steve Jobs legacy resonates within the elitist idiosyncrasies; that obviously become clear here with the launch of this product in my opinion.

Upgradability inconsistencies;

Focus on aesthetics that seem quite impractical from a hardware perspective;

Inability to focus on what people already invested in their; "ecosystem" actually wants.

Lack of loyalty when it comes to supporting older hardware etc.

The man might have been brilliant in certain ways but it's obvious that the acid he dropped; affected his neurons in a way that some of the people around him did not appreciate when he was alive and that have left an elitist self centered residue on the corporate culture; he helped shape (that's a diplomatic way of putting it).

Old 12th June 2019
  #988
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sascha Franck View Post
I actually don't know what I "expect" from them, possibly not much anymore.
But I certainly wish they would "get real" or something.

"See, we made this computer thinner and lighter. We're sure you will enjoy it *so* much that you won't mind it to cost a bit more. We're sure that you also will understand that you can't replace the internal drives anymore, but as a compensation we're offering nice upgrade options. Oh, and because your computer is now paperthin, we had to cut off a few expansion options, we also hope you'll understand that this comes at the cost of not being able to run it at full power for a longer period of time. Your Apple team."

And all that even if nobody asked for a thinner/lighter computer in the first place.
I agree.

Maybe what's required is more shareholder activism.

Everybody always mention Steve when it comes to Apple but without my mentors friend Wozniak; there would not have been an Apple period (reminds me of producers in the music business that get most of the credit; for other peoples work).
Old 12th June 2019
  #989
Lives for gear
 
charlieclouser's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by basehead617 View Post
I keep seeing references to that but can you point me to something that talks about this MPX raid storage? The official released information i saw only talks about the MPX expansion w/rt some multi graphics card setup.

https://www.promise.com/us/Promotion/PegasusStorage
Old 12th June 2019
  #990
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikael B View Post
While I think this may be true I do think it can be overridden. I don't think anyone paying $15,000 for a Mac Pro will want to have to take the Mac to Apple to replace the system drive. That could put a hamper on sales.
Overidden how? The T2 chip handles the SSD controller on the logic board so no way around that. And if the sockets are proprietary no ones knows yet what kind of policy Apple could slap on them yet, but you should read the link below. Spoiler's that apparently replacing SSD's in the iMac Pro voids the warranty:

https://everymac.com/systems/apple/i...d-storage.html

Either way this shouldn’t be a surprise. This is exactly the direction Apple has been heading since 2012... Since the introduction of the Retina Apple's been moving more and more in the direction of 'configure it at checkout' or live with it.

I'd also consider that for people assuming they'll just willy nilly swap the CPU... That's pretty much guarateed to void your warranty since this has always been Apple's policy... Like the 4,1 The smart thing to do would be upgrade them after its out of warranty or applecare expires.

About the internal disk, this doesn’t mean you can’t boot from another drive. (But as everyone else has pointed out no one knows for sure yet what exactly is going on with the SATA ports…) You’d also need to read up about secure boot, which is on by default…

Out of the box T2 machines behave like they won’t let you boot from an external disk, you have to boot into recovery mode and change the security settings before you can. (I've done it on my MacBook several times already... Not a big deal but was irked when Apple support couldn't even tell me how. Ironically Bombich did a betteer job supporting the MacBook by pointing me to Apple's own article on disabling secure boot that not a single AC agent could find. )
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