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At last: new Mac Pro!
Old 10th December 2019
  #3661
Gear Maniac
 

Someone with the tech suaveness of MACOS and chipsets know the answer to this?

Looks like they are using a LGA 3647 Socket. Can you install any Intel chip that is compatible in it or are u limited to the 5 chips they have speced? Also appears the speced chips are about 45% cheaper in the retail market! That is unless there becomes a supply issue
Old 10th December 2019
  #3662
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MattyJoe View Post
16 is still plenty. You will struggle to max that out even if you TRY to for fun.

More cores is more important than base clock speed in 2019, because more cores means more overall CPU headroom, so higher turbo boost frequencies. Your average CPU clock speed will be well above the base clock speed.

Base clock speeds are going DOWN for this reason, and mean far less than they used to. Single core scores are base clock speed only, because you can't turbo boost without multiple cores. That's why we're seeing single core scores that equal a MacBook Pro.

Intel's turbo boost feature means you'll see astronomical multi-core scores on machines like the new Mac Pro. The more cores, the better.

Very few processes ever completely max out CPU utilization, especially in audio which is now on the lower end of the spectrum compared to video and graphics rendering. So you will always be turbo boosting, and so your average clock speed will always be 3.4-3.7 GHz.

As TNM pointed out, however, not every task we do in audio is optimized for multi-core. The particulars of this are not my area of expertise as much; i.e. which actions in a DAW utilize multiple cores vs. not. I know the basics, like Bouncing and Exporting tend to use just a single core, and lower buffer sizes while recording use only one or two cores. Multi-core utilization increases latency, and therefore can't be used for low latency situations.

For mixing, however, many of the things you'll be doing will be taking full advantage of those 16 cores, since you'll be using the full buffer size.
I appreciate the response. So from a low latency tracking perspective.. seems like more cores makes more sense?
Old 10th December 2019
  #3663
Gear Guru
 
henryrobinett's Avatar
What about SSD? Can you put third party SSD in there?
Old 10th December 2019
  #3664
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by henryrobinett View Post
What about SSD? Can you put third party SSD in there?
I think with an pcie nvme adapter card. You have to enable boot from external disk in recovery mode in the t2 settings.
Old 10th December 2019
  #3665
Gear Nut
 
neve1064's Avatar
 

Better get insurance for that Mac, bruh.

So a guy breaks into a studio and looks at two Neve racked 1064 mic pre/EQs and thinks he can get $8k for these but then a shiny Mac Pro catches his eye... it’s got such a cool ergonomic handle.

Just sayin’, you better start doing your taxes the right way and maximizing your deductions because you’ll need to save as much as you can to afford the kit and the savings will need to go to the theft insurance and the upgrades to your studio so it’s harder to break into. (Try qualifying for insurance if you’re not up-to-speck. I tried getting insurance on the building and they said I needed a new roof first.)

Digression rant over. I was told to wait until the bench tests come out. Until then, it doesn’t make sense to figure out which Mac Pro to get. Looks like this is a strong machine even at a base level for Logic Pro DAW work sans heavy track counts with numerous esoteric plug ins and high rate sample rate Library instances.
Old 10th December 2019
  #3666
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derdiedasscheusa's Avatar
 

Look at all the proness:
Attached Thumbnails
At last: new Mac Pro!-c52f3f52-539a-41b0-b168-60503aca3210.jpg   At last: new Mac Pro!-32d0ddcc-4cba-40bc-ba44-e88c1f2ce088.jpg  
Old 10th December 2019
  #3667
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drumfix View Post
400$ for the wheels
Noticed that as well. The wheels for my car are half of it.
Old 10th December 2019
  #3668
Gear Nut
 
neve1064's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sascha Franck View Post
Noticed that as well. The wheels for my car are half of it.
This Mac weighs just shy of 40 lbs.
so the wheels are $100 each or your paying $10 USD for each pound of weight to be easily moved. After all, how many of us can lift 40 lbs. anyway? ?

Seriously though, if Apple has created a hack able platform, great. Get the base model and wait until component process drop to upgrade.
Old 10th December 2019
  #3669
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neve1064 View Post
Seriously though, if Apple has created a hack able platform, great. Get the base model and wait until component process drop to upgrade.
Can you update the CPU yourself? I pretty much doubt that.
Old 10th December 2019
  #3670
TNM
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattyJoe View Post
16 is still plenty. You will struggle to max that out even if you TRY to for fun.

More cores is more important than base clock speed in 2019, because more cores means more overall CPU headroom, so higher turbo boost frequencies. Your average CPU clock speed will be well above the base clock speed.

Base clock speeds are going DOWN for this reason, and mean far less than they used to. Single core scores are base clock speed only, because you can't turbo boost without multiple cores. That's why we're seeing single core scores that equal a MacBook Pro.

Intel's turbo boost feature means you'll see astronomical multi-core scores on machines like the new Mac Pro. The more cores, the better.

Very few processes ever completely max out CPU utilization, especially in audio which is now on the lower end of the spectrum compared to video and graphics rendering. So you will always be turbo boosting, and so your average clock speed will always be 3.4-3.7 GHz.

As TNM pointed out, however, not every task we do in audio is optimized for multi-core. The particulars of this are not my area of expertise as much; i.e. which actions in a DAW utilize multiple cores vs. not. I know the basics, like Bouncing and Exporting tend to use just a single core, and lower buffer sizes while recording use only one or two cores. Multi-core utilization increases latency, and therefore can't be used for low latency situations.

For mixing, however, many of the things you'll be doing will be taking full advantage of those 16 cores, since you'll be using the full buffer size.
Base clocks are going down cause the larger the core count the harder it is to keep the cores cool and the more power they use.

There is no one who wouldn't choose a 4GHZ 28 core processor over a 2.5ghz one.

There will be synths that one instance of will overload the core of the 2.5ghz one, IF it's un a multi track arrangement where all the cores are already in some use.
The key is to make sure that at any given time, one can play 16 voices of the most cpu hungry synth in realtime if they desire. Or at least 8 voices (But i find with pads with long release, even 16 could be a conservative number in complex chord progressions).
There's also the point that the DAW has to be programmed well enough to load balance across 56 theads.. Ok, so we know Logic can do it for now.. it keeps getting updates whenever a new mac is out that ups the core count, so it can use the number of cores. Do we know for sure that all the other Mac Daws out there can fully multithread 58 threads? let's wait for some DAW tests first.

Secondly, I am just going to say it.. if one wants something that high thread count, and is not using Logic, just use windows darn it. You can build a 32 core ryzen monster for little more than half the base cost of the 8 core mac pro LOL.

I just don't see the value in the 28 core for DAW...

Since when did people stop using inline bounce if they needed some headroom anyway? I mean it's going to take *serious* film orchestral projects to max out the 16 core.. so why does ANYONE here, other than AAA film composers, need the 28 core?
A few years ago, people were chaining 2 or 3 PC's, with 4 or 6 cores each, via VE PRO, to have what they called monster orchestral rigs. The 16 core will do that in one mac.
Single core clock speed is very important for VI use and I will stick with that, as will most pro daw builders. For those doing audio that don't use VI's, it's a different matter entirely
Agree to disagree..
Cheers

PS in the video I linked to, one could clearly see that the mac pro was not even close to hitting thermal limitations.. But i think it should have been higher than 3GHZ on all cores.. And the guy said it dropped to 2.8 or 2.9 at times..
I think there is some sort of power limitation in play here, *maybe* made more prominent by his inclusion of two vega II GPU's.

I will tell you this.. if the 28 core maintains 3ghz across all cores in a heavy DAW project, and the 16 core maintains 4ghz, i'd rather have that. But maybe that's just me. If there was a 32 core processor out there that did 5ghz on all cores, i'd choose that LOL. But there's not.
Old 10th December 2019
  #3671
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octatonic's Avatar
Bought.
This is the spec.

Old 10th December 2019
  #3672
Gear Maniac
 
derdiedasscheusa's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by octatonic View Post
Bought.
This is the spec.

Congrats! Please report back when you get it, from an audio guys perspective.
Old 10th December 2019
  #3673
Gear Nut
 
neve1064's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sascha Franck View Post
Can you update the CPU yourself? I pretty much doubt that.
I don’t the CPU upgrades is what people want to do. Maybe adding cores. But the upgrades I read you want are in the RAM, PCIe, Storage departments. This MAc makes that doable as DIY.
Old 10th December 2019
  #3674
Lives for gear
One of the guys Apple sent a review machine to Geekbenched a 28 core with 384gb of ram at 21,303.

The old 12 core cheese-grater gets a score of aprox. 5,616. That means you'll need to spend $19,000 to get aprox. 4x the raw power of a 2012 pro. I know there are other things that go into the architecture that will give the NMP other performance gains but that is super disappointing. I was hoping that a 16 core would be 4x or 5x the power of a 2012...
Old 10th December 2019
  #3675
Gear Addict
 
MichaelDroste's Avatar
 

For $2000 upgrade from 8 core to 16 core
Old 10th December 2019
  #3676
Gear Addict
 
MichaelDroste's Avatar
 

I’ll upgrade ram later and start with 2 tb ssd
Old 10th December 2019
  #3677
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octatonic's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelDroste View Post
I’ll upgrade ram later and start with 2 tb ssd
I've gone to 48GB ram, it wasn't that much more.
Same with the SSD- went for 4TB.
Old 10th December 2019
  #3678
Lives for gear
 
zephonic's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by TNM View Post

Since when did people stop using inline bounce if they needed some headroom anyway?
I still do because I like having the final version of a song in audio for posterity, and often I need to because my computer (cMP 6-core) just can't take the weight of all those VI's and plugins anymore.

But the modern workflow has evolved to the point where changes occur even in the final stages of the process. I can't count the number of times I have had to re-bounce a track because of one or two notes.

It used to be creation/recording, mixing, and mastering. To me, those stages are no longer clearly defined and it has become a much more organic and symbiotic process over all.


I'd love to have a computer where I don't have to worry about freezing and bouncing.
Old 11th December 2019
  #3679
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weezul's Avatar
Will be very interested in the non-apple-sanctioned reviews. It seems most of the 'unboxing' videos are highly curated by apple. All have same specs, and only really do an unboxing with some benchmarks. Get those PCIe slots filled, show us the SSDs and how they're mounted/soldered, fill the internal SATA ports, etc etc. Interesting times for sure. Personally, 2x USB A sockets seems a bit tight but apple gon' apple. I await the iFixit teardown more than anything
Old 11th December 2019
  #3680
TNM
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by zephonic View Post
I still do because I like having the final version of a song in audio for posterity, and often I need to because my computer (cMP 6-core) just can't take the weight of all those VI's and plugins anymore.

But the modern workflow has evolved to the point where changes occur even in the final stages of the process. I can't count the number of times I have had to re-bounce a track because of one or two notes.

It used to be creation/recording, mixing, and mastering. To me, those stages are no longer clearly defined and it has become a much more organic and symbiotic process over all.


I'd love to have a computer where I don't have to worry about freezing and bouncing.
Freeze let's you do that.. you simply unfreeze..

There is literally almost no performance bottleneck with a modern pc if you are willing to use freeze.. And if you happen to use S1, you have track transform (which makes up more or less for it's poor VI performance),. It's ridiculous how good it is. Right click transform track, vi goes to audio but midi remains underneath.. you can actually edit and copy the audio around but the kicker is you can transform back to midi and the changes (i assume they go by clip length) are there. No other DAW does this.

But there are others with excellent and easy to use freeze.

If I am on the laptop, I do it even when the cpu has got half it's headroom left.. save heat and fan noise. Why not? It's great.

The problem I seem to face is when arming tracks, either to monitor external instruments, or to play VI's at low buffer.. UA took care of the first problem with Console, but you need a strong cpu with good single core performance for the latest VI's..
I do like to keep things in the midi domain for easy arrangements sake, and if I can, I do, on the imac pro..
So I do understand but it's just that we have gotten to ridiculous levels of power, even in a small laptop, for the creation of music..

Last edited by TNM; 11th December 2019 at 04:57 AM.. Reason: horrendous spelling errors lol
Old 11th December 2019
  #3681
Sky
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Sky's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MattyJoe View Post
https://youtu.be/DOPswcaSsu8

This machine is a game changer. It's for heavy heavy Pro users, as we've been saying, for whom the price is not prohibitive. This is not the machine to complain about nickel and diming and not having a 512 GB storage option. It's high end. The people who buy this will pay what they need to pay. If I had the money I'd get one in a heartbeat, although I'd never come close to maxing it out.

There are plenty of high powered options for lower price points now, such as the 16" MacBook Pro, iMac or iMac Pro, or Mac Mini (which will probably be seeing a refresh next).

The Mac Pro is TOP TIER, and everything about its packaging and design reflect that. New visualizers in macOS which show you which DIMM slots are used and which PCIe slots are used. Take a good look at that interior, have you ever seen anything like that in a computer tower before? Unbelievable design and materials. The couple review videos that are out are all saying that the machine is DEAD QUIET under heavy load, that you essentially don't even hear it or know it's in your workspace.

We have never seen a machine exactly like this before. It's not a Hackintosh with a bunch of components thrown into a box. Apple employs some of the greatest computer engineers in the world, and they're really making that known here. Well done.
Thanks for the link MattyJoe.

We finally have real numbers to work with. Upgrade prices are okay - no surprises for me so far, based on what we learned in June. Next up are prices for "coming soon" options and also more info from Pegasus.

In considering my next move, I better understand what this machine is. If I consider NMP as an old-school desktop computer, it is an engine embedded into a box that can hold all expansion internally, like my 2010 CMP, less clutter.

Now I see NMP purely as a professional engine. Sure there are many slots and ports, but filling them is about configuring the engine to be purpose-based. A video editor will immediately fill five slots with dual MPX + afterburner, and a Pro Tools engineer may fully load it with HDX and UAD cards, no expansion chassis required. In professional applications, big storage will live elsewhere on the LAN or cloud.

CMP made internal big storage simple with its 3.5" + 5.24" drive slots that were perfect for 2010. NMP will require a Pegasus 3rd-part subchassis - meaning higher cost, narrower options and likely better integration. NMP can still be made to work somewhat as an multifunction home / project studio computer, at additional cost.

So yes I agree, the NMP really is top tier for its intended purpose. Kudos to Apple for addressing the professional market without compromise. This may leave out some hobbyists and project studio owners, but the platform seems solid.

Getting practical, I may continue running my studio computer as both a DAW and household data management hub. My alternative would be to split these functions by moving 16TB spinners onto a 24x7 NAS+cloud, further increasing cost and system complexity. Keeping data management in the box will occasionally tie up the DAW when running backups, etc. But I'm not running 24x7 so the system streamlining may be worth it.

With all this in mind, here are my thoughts on the best DAW configuration for a project studio:

Basic ($8,099.00):

3.3GHz 12‑core Intel Xeon W processor, Turbo Boost up to 4.4GHz
48GB (6x8GB) of DDR4 ECC memory
Radeon Pro 580X with 8GB of GDDR5 memory
2TB SSD storage
Stainless steel frame with feet
Magic Mouse 2
Magic Keyboard with Numeric Keypad - US English


Superior (TBD, I estimate $12,000):

3.2GHz 16‑core Intel Xeon W processor, Turbo Boost up to 4.4GHz
96GB (6x16GB) of DDR4 ECC memory
Radeon Pro W5700X with 16GB of GDDR6 memory (next-gen GPU, coming soon)
8TB SSD storage (for system + apps + sample library internally, coming soon)
Stainless steel frame with feet
Magic Mouse 2
Magic Keyboard with Numeric Keypad - US English

In addition, for either config:

AppleCare+ and for me the Pegasus J2i hosting 2x 16TB spinners. I'm watching for new Pegasus configs and prices. OWC has already announced 3rd-party RAM products, details TBD. I'll also record onto an external ~1TB Samsung or SanDisk SSD - essentially my digital roll of tape - run it into the ground then pop in another.

I may buy something in between Basic and Superior as budget allows - definitely want to invest in the 16-core CPU if possible. As a Pro Tools user, I still have a few months to observe the market while Avid sorts through Catalina compatibility.

NMP is looking good, and if Apple refreshes the Mini to match the improved MBP16 GPU and storage options that will be interesting.

Sky
Old 11th December 2019
  #3682
Lives for gear
 
Monkey Man's Avatar
 

I'd been hoping that a surprise lower-spec'd cheese grater would magically appear when these things hit the streets. Bummer. Still gonna hope 'though...

The "reality" of the pricing now that it's available, along with the currently-weak (and going nowhere if not down) Aussie dollar, mean I'm going to have to let this go, much as it pains me. The ol' 2012 cheese grater will have to do.
Old 11th December 2019
  #3683
Lives for gear
 
zephonic's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by TNM View Post
Freeze let's you do that.. you simply unfreeze..
There is literally almost no performance bottleneck with a modern pc if you are willing to use freeze..
I know, I use it all the time. But in Cubase (my main DAW), freezing a track takes long and disrupts the workflow. I disagree about the "no bottleneck". You can't freeze sends, reverbs for example. Something like H-Verb takes a lot of cycles on my cMP, and I can't freeze it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TNM View Post
And if you happen to use S1, you have track transform (which makes up more or less for it's poor VI performance),. It's ridiculous how good it is. Right click transform track, vi goes to audio but midi remains underneath.. you can actually edit and copy the audio around but the kicker is you can transform back to midi and the changes (i assume they go by clip length) are there. No other DAW does this.
Another notch for S1. I tried the demo about two years ago and really liked it. Very intuitive, but it still missed a few features that I'm used to having, and word here on GS is that it needs to improve its LLP. But I may just buy the crossgrade. Bounce in place was definitely a very neat feature to have.


Back on-topic: now that the Mac Pro's pricing is known, I'm actually looking at the iMac Pro as a bit of a steal. Base model + 4TB is $5999, base Mac Pro + 4TB is $7399. Both have an 8-core, 32GB RAM, and 8GB GPU.

A 10-core iMac with 64GB RAM and 4TB SSD is $7199 and should last me a few years. Only downside is no upgradability, so when you run out of room, you need a new computer.
Old 11th December 2019
  #3684
Gear Maniac
 

Im not sure what world the apple execs live but their tactics are Total BS. They string us out with a BS Fall announcement and then allow you to "ORDER" 10 days before Winter. They you have to wait 2 months to get it.

Dont know about you all but when I hear them say available in the fall that meant we could get one by then. Not order one and wait 2 months.

This type of SHT just pisses me off. It false advertising. We stalled some projects that we were hoping to do on the new machine and now we have to start regardless. We would not have have waited if they would have just been Honest. We felt fairly certain they would ship this month by what they told the community.

Bunch of ASShats running apple making these decision to just give a big FU to the customers. I would have much preferred that they said shipping Feb 2019 last Feb and I would have built a Hack and been over it for a couple years.
Old 11th December 2019
  #3685
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by thestarfire View Post
Im not sure what world the apple execs live but their tactics are Total BS. They string us out with a BS Fall announcement and then allow you to "ORDER" 10 days before Winter. They you have to wait 2 months to get it.

Dont know about you all but when I hear them say available in the fall that meant we could get one by then. Not order one and wait 2 months.

This type of SHT just pisses me off. It false advertising. We stalled some projects that we were hoping to do on the new machine and now we have to start regardless. We would not have have waited if they would have just been Honest. We felt fairly certain they would ship this month by what they told the community.

Bunch of ASShats running apple making these decision to just give a big FU to the customers. I would have much preferred that they said shipping Feb 2019 last Feb and I would have built a Hack and been over it for a couple years.
There is not one tech company on the planet that doesn’t do things like this, and usually much more frustratingly than Apple. The biggest reason for stretching the release timeline is figuring out how much inventory to stock up; gauging how much interest there is in the machine before they make a whole bunch that don’t sell.

They don’t have to do this as much with iMacs or MacBook Pros because they know there will be a market for those immediately. This machine is expensive and quite an undertaking to manufacture.
Old 11th December 2019
  #3686
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TNM View Post
I just don't see the value in the 28 core for DAW...

Since when did people stop using inline bounce if they needed some headroom anyway? I mean it's going to take *serious* film orchestral projects to max out the 16 core.. so why does ANYONE here, other than AAA film composers, need the 28 core?
Didn’t you specifically say that part of the reason why you want more headroom is to be more reckless with your creative choices? So that you don’t have to be bouncing down as much and just duplicate synths as much as you want. That was your argument for getting one of these powerful machines

I agree that 16 is a better option, though.

28 cores will make more of a difference in pure playback situations; playing back very very dense mixes. For tracking/sequencing you get no advantage over 16 cores, because multi-core utilization has to be cut down for lower buffer sizes/latency.

But when playing back large sessions, you will certainly see a big advantage with 28 cores. That’s double the amount of hyper threading. Yes, film scoring is one of the main areas that will be able to utilize that much power. Your average mix session, even one with like 200+ tracks and lots of processing, will likely see 15-20% core utilization max with 28 cores. Seriously. It’s so much headroom.

Imagine the most dense session you’ve ever worked on, that pushed whatever rig you had at that time to the brink, and I assure you you’d see like 20% core utilization running that session on the 28 core Mac Pro.
Old 11th December 2019
  #3687
TNM
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sky View Post

With all this in mind, here are my thoughts on the best DAW configuration for a project studio:

Basic ($8,099.00):

3.3GHz 12‑core Intel Xeon W processor, Turbo Boost up to 4.4GHz
48GB (6x8GB) of DDR4 ECC memory
Radeon Pro 580X with 8GB of GDDR5 memory
2TB SSD storage
Stainless steel frame with feet
Magic Mouse 2
Magic Keyboard with Numeric Keypad - US English


Superior (TBD, I estimate $12,000):

3.2GHz 16‑core Intel Xeon W processor, Turbo Boost up to 4.4GHz
96GB (6x16GB) of DDR4 ECC memory
Radeon Pro W5700X with 16GB of GDDR6 memory (next-gen GPU, coming soon)
8TB SSD storage (for system + apps + sample library internally, coming soon)
Stainless steel frame with feet
Magic Mouse 2
Magic Keyboard with Numeric Keypad - US English

In addition, for either config:

AppleCare+ and for me the Pegasus J2i hosting 2x 16TB spinners. I'm watching for new Pegasus configs and prices. OWC has already announced 3rd-party RAM products, details TBD. I'll also record onto an external ~1TB Samsung or SanDisk SSD - essentially my digital roll of tape - run it into the ground then pop in another.

I may buy something in between Basic and Superior as budget allows - definitely want to invest in the 16-core CPU if possible. As a Pro Tools user, I still have a few months to observe the market while Avid sorts through Catalina compatibility.

NMP is looking good, and if Apple refreshes the Mini to match the improved MBP16 GPU and storage options that will be interesting.

Sky
The 5700 edition will be perfect for me as that can do 1440P gaming at high settings.. I'd have a loverly bootcamp partition for when I needed a break and to frag something.
5700 is faster than the Vega 64, so that will be a wonderful base option and would save me literally 4 grand from getting the Vega.. I know it sounds crazy, but I couldn't buy a mac pro with a 580X as I want to also game.. and I don't have room for two desktops under any circumstance. The imac pro can't be used as a screen slave so i'd need to ditch that and get two nice 24" 2560x1440 monitors which would be flawless for audio and the right compromise for gaming too

I'd love to read more about the 5700 coming, is this a sure thing? Apple have confirmed this? That's good. It means, wait.

16 core
96gb ram
5700 16GB
2TB SSD
2 external monitors, at least one of them with freeesync for gaming

I can live with the price on that as I can sell imac pro and take an interest free on the balance. would be around 700$ a month for 18 months (taking a low ball price for imac pro into consideration).

That would be a sweet do it all machine and it's still powerful enough for video editing if I decide to continue with the plan of learning video

I refuse to pay $640 extra for wheels, they can STICK IT. That's outrageous apple. Outrageous. You really are going OTT and thinking everyone is just loaded or something.

And i refuse to get one with a 580X..

If it's true I can just buy a 5700 XT or vega 64 and put it in myself, then that's fine too. They are cheap.
Old 11th December 2019
  #3688
TNM
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by zephonic View Post
I know, I use it all the time. But in Cubase (my main DAW), freezing a track takes long and disrupts the workflow. I disagree about the "no bottleneck". You can't freeze sends, reverbs for example. Something like H-Verb takes a lot of cycles on my cMP, and I can't freeze it.



Another notch for S1. I tried the demo about two years ago and really liked it. Very intuitive, but it still missed a few features that I'm used to having, and word here on GS is that it needs to improve its LLP. But I may just buy the crossgrade. Bounce in place was definitely a very neat feature to have.


Back on-topic: now that the Mac Pro's pricing is known, I'm actually looking at the iMac Pro as a bit of a steal. Base model + 4TB is $5999, base Mac Pro + 4TB is $7399. Both have an 8-core, 32GB RAM, and 8GB GPU.

A 10-core iMac with 64GB RAM and 4TB SSD is $7199 and should last me a few years. Only downside is no upgradability, so when you run out of room, you need a new computer.
I can confirm S1's realtime performance in general, on mac, is astonishingly bad vs Logic/Reaper even PT. So the transform is essential anyway for that DAW.
Old 11th December 2019
  #3689
TNM
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattyJoe View Post
Didn’t you specifically say that part of the reason why you want more headroom is to be more reckless with your creative choices? So that you don’t have to be bouncing down as much and just duplicate synths as much as you want. That was your argument for getting one of these powerful machines

I agree that 16 is a better option, though.

28 cores will make more of a difference in pure playback situations; playing back very very dense mixes. For tracking/sequencing you get no advantage over 16 cores, because multi-core utilization has to be cut down for lower buffer sizes/latency.

But when playing back large sessions, you will certainly see a big advantage with 28 cores. That’s double the amount of hyper threading. Yes, film scoring is one of the main areas that will be able to utilize that much power. Your average mix session, even one with like 200+ tracks and lots of processing, will likely see 15-20% core utilization max with 28 cores. Seriously. It’s so much headroom.

Imagine the most dense session you’ve ever worked on, that pushed whatever rig you had at that time to the brink, and I assure you you’d see like 20% core utilization running that session on the 28 core Mac Pro.
I was giving an opinion when asked of why anyone would need 28 cores.. and went into the creative freedom thing..I really did mean for those who do film work by the way and should have clarified better.
I did then go into detail a few posts down that i was thinking ridiculously and being greedy and would never personally spend that much on a computer and I'd feel guilty doing so.

So in a nutshell, i was originally excited, when the excitement wore down, I realised how ridiculous it is (for me personally).

Even the 16 core, 2Tb SSD, 580X, no wheels, 96GB ram is $16079 in AU.
I'd feel bad getting that but might be able to justify to myself that it's something I could use for a decade.

That said.. this is all moot right now.. PT doesn't work on Catalina nor do some of my plugs and apps.. until they do, it's imac pro with Mojave for me!

Seriously though.. i keep using bootcamp more and more and my next build might be a 16 core PC with tons of internal SSD's, a rockin gaming card (which in a good OEM stay silent when using DAW's as the fans don't spin till 3D is used), and 64Gb ram which has been the absolute sweet spot for me (would choose 96 on NMP purely cause of 6 channel).. I'd overclock it and set the cores to one constant frequency at all times, the performance would absolutely smash the NMP 16 core and it would cost between a third and half the price and I'd have two monitors included as well as a kickass gaming card as well as 8TB of SSD. And I could probably do it with the money I get simply from selling the imac pro. All this of course also depends on choosing the absolute right DAW for windows that can perfectly use all the cores and has good overall performance..
Old 11th December 2019
  #3690
Lives for gear
 
basehead617's Avatar
I'm looking at 16-core + 192 gb RAM + 4 TB SSD.

I think the 16-core is the sweet spot of single core speed (3.2 ghz vs 2.5 ghz for the 28-core) with still lots of cores.
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