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Huge latency issues on the latest 1903 Windows release - SOLVED
Old 29th May 2019
  #1
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Huge latency issues on the latest 1903 Windows release - SOLVED

I hope this is a Latencymon update problem and not a Windows problem. The sinner showing huge spikes in Latencymon is:
ntoskrnl.exe


My Windows 1809 build never had spikes like this

Last edited by Diogo C; 28th July 2019 at 09:20 PM.. Reason: Added "Solved" per OP request
Old 29th May 2019
  #2
Contact the manufacturer of your interface to see what they say. It might be a driver issue.
Old 29th May 2019
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomwatson View Post
Contact the manufacturer of your interface to see what they say. It might be a driver issue.
This is either a Windows issue or Latencymon issue. Like I said no problem in the 1809 build. As far as I know the ntoskrnl.exe has nothing to do with my audio interface

Here are another screenshot. Also something called CLASSPNP.SYS show high execution



Edit:
hi, I seemed to a solved some of the worst problems, but I still have some spikes. What you must do is to:
Turn off all overclocking!!!!!
Then test latencymon on the default settings in bios. Also updated graphic card driver and change setting first to Optimal Power, then restart pc then change back to Prefered Maximum Setting. Do the same thing with power setting change to High performance then restart then back to Ultimate setting. But the most important thing is to turn off overclocking, then you can turn overclocking back on again. Actually pretty logical that an major update would be in conflict with your old overclocking.... Here are screenshot from my new result:

Not excellent but it getting there

Edit2:
Too early still get the ntoskrnl.exe spikes
Old 29th May 2019
  #4
Gear Head
 
jjnssn's Avatar
 

same issue here. I had loaded the W10 1903 preview weeks ago and this problem was readily apparent. Turning off Superfetch (Sysmain), Windows Search, I have done a clean install on my system with 1903.... nothing has helped minimize it. I have reset my bios, have all C-states, CPU Throttling, Hyperthreading, Turbo Boost, all these are off and I still get the issues. I switch back to 1809 with all the same PC settings and the huge spikes are gone and the typical spikes are significantly less, (< 250 microseconds). I can run 64 buffers with my HDX system with 1809, 1903 in less than a minute I am getting 9171 errors with 2018.12 and 9030 errors with 2019.5.

Using Process Explorer and viewing threads; there are threads present in 1903 that are not present in 1809. I wish I better understood what these differences are. I have been running Windows Tool Kit working to understand what is causing the issues, i have tried shutting off all non-essential services...

nothing has helped. I have come to the same conclusion there is something broke and it isn't obvious what it is.

I am back to 1809. I have a separate boot disc that has 1903 and will be testing the updates as the come out until it goes away by chance at this point.
Old 29th May 2019
  #5
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hmm does not look good. Do you think there is any chance that Latencymon report wrong cause it's not updated to 1903 build? But I guess not since you have tested the HDX system.
Strange thing is that it can go minutes where I think everything is good then suddenly a huge spike....strange. I give it couple of more days then I have to go back to a one month old clone of the 1809 build...and turn off the update. Like this:
https://askleo.com/disable-windows-u...ndows-10-home/
Old 29th May 2019
  #6
Gear Head
 
Oddionut's Avatar
 

I've been looking for info / posts on 1903. Most of what I've read has been + but I really don't want to update right now and being fairly new to Win 10, I don't like the whole Automatic Update concept.

I just recently (2 months ago) updated my Win7 32bit DAW, that ran solid, to Win10 64 bit (1803, as Pro Tools says not compatible w/ 1809 ). Finally able to use Programs & Plugins I bought many moons ago, which has been pretty cool. For the past 20 years I've kept my DAW off line. Things have changed & I'm trying to change my habits, such as going online and staying up to date.

I'm using Shutup10 and think I have it setup correctly. Any of you use Shutup10 and will it really not let Windows update it self? Can I let Defender run & update itself while online or will that trigger an OS update?
Old 29th May 2019
  #7
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I think I was typing as daskeladden had posted the Ask Leo link. Very Good

I also just found this article written today that says MS is going to give us back a little more control of our own PC...

https://win10.guru/ms-plans-to-skip-...y-2019-update/
Old 29th May 2019
  #8
Gear Maniac
I installed 1903 earlier today and the results on latencymon were the same as 1809. The highest DPC was less than 100us; having said that, I found out that as soon as I turned on my Tascam UH-7000H the highest DPC execution time would immediately jump to 300us-600us. It was very predictable as the DPC would increase as soon as I plugged in the USB for the audio interface. I then attempted to plug the USB into different USB ports including 3.0, 3.1. The results were essentially the same. I then decided to do the one thing that I recommend you try. I uninstalled the drivers for the UH-7000 from the latest to the oldest update. Low and behold, DPC was back under 100us with FL studio playing a track with one instance of Kontakt and 3 instances of another VSTi at the lowest buffer setting. Mind you, Before this fix I was only simply plugging the USB in without even starting FL Studio. The DPC remained exactly the same(under 100us).

Having said all the above, I have discovered, at least in my set up, that fixing DPC issues does not fix crackling and pops at low buffers(lowest buffer setting on the Tascam). I was still dealing with crackles and pops with a 16g 3600mhz ram and with 12% CPU usage(9900k). I am convinced that part or in my case, most of the issue, is related to bad drivers.

Last edited by MarathonMan; 29th May 2019 at 08:19 AM.. Reason: adding info.
Old 29th May 2019
  #9
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Just tried my DAW desktop that has 1903 installed and no problems. Latency Mon is "happy". My desktop is my own build with an ASUS ROG motherboard, i7 6700K, 16GB RAM and an AMD RX580 video card.

I've also done some recording since upgrading to 1903 and no problems.
Attached Thumbnails
Huge latency issues on the latest 1903 Windows release - SOLVED-latency-mon.jpg  
Old 29th May 2019
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fireberd View Post
Just tried my DAW desktop that has 1903 installed and no problems. Latency Mon is "happy". My desktop is my own build with an ASUS ROG motherboard, i7 6700K, 16GB RAM and an AMD RX580 video card.

I've also done some recording since upgrading to 1903 and no problems.
I can see you have an old version of Latencymon installed. Try and install the 6.71 version and let it run for at least 5 minutes and see if you get any spikes.
I have tried to pull out all USB and thunderbolt stuff out of the pc. Did not help.
Next thing I gonna try is to disable the graphic card and use the internal graphic.
Old 29th May 2019
  #11
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lol...congrats. If you didnt allredy knew yet...you'll going to run into these kind of issues every 6 month when MS is releasing its major updates onto your DAW.

The question is really why one needs to overhaul a DAW on a 6 month cycle. Thats whats basically happening. You might get a total new OS without eveb knowing. Before W10 you knew when a new OS was released. Today you're no longer in charge cause they force the new OS upon your PC whether you like it or not.

There is only one strategy to deal with that issue and that is to freeze your OS LTSB. There is no reason to get the every latest updates if you have a good running stable system.

Of course if you go along with all these new subscription enslavement scams such as protools and Roland online synths you will be forced to stay online and to receive every update.

If you want to be free of such issues disconnect your DAW, freeze the built and avoid subscription scam.

You might consider a upgrade every 36 month or so after you made a backup mirror of your DAW that allows you a roll-back.
Old 29th May 2019
  #12
Gear Addict
 
juiseman's Avatar
 

Switched main rig to Win 7 x64 Enterprise a few months back.
Still working great.

Haven't had time to mess with my Win 10 backup rig yet; I'm not sure if it updated from 1809 yet.
Old 29th May 2019
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daskeladden View Post
I can see you have an old version of Latencymon installed. Try and install the 6.71 version and let it run for at least 5 minutes and see if you get any spikes.
I have tried to pull out all USB and thunderbolt stuff out of the pc. Did not help.
Next thing I gonna try is to disable the graphic card and use the internal graphic.
I installed the 6.71 version. It ran OK for 2 minutes then got a hit. I rebooted and then ran it again and after 5 minutes it was still clean.


Jack
Old 29th May 2019
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fireberd View Post
I installed the 6.71 version. It ran OK for 2 minutes then got a hit. I rebooted and then ran it again and after 5 minutes it was still clean.


Jack
Hmm strange. But sometimes mine run clean for minutes then bam major spikes.
I tried with only the internal graphic and disabling the external graphic; same issues.

By the way could you post a full latencymon report after you have runned it for like 10 minutes? You are one of the few with Intel CPU that don't have this issue.
Old 29th May 2019
  #15
Gear Maniac
Decided to run Latencymon 6.71 to share. As I mentioned earlier, I installed 1903 yesterday and have not noticed any difference from 1809.
Attached Thumbnails
Huge latency issues on the latest 1903 Windows release - SOLVED-dncc.jpg  
Old 29th May 2019
  #16
Gear Maniac
Here's another one with longer time and the results are essentially the same.
Attached Thumbnails
Huge latency issues on the latest 1903 Windows release - SOLVED-dcc2.jpg  
Old 29th May 2019
  #17
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Thanks for the post Marathon. Here is a video about the issue:


Maybe I should try a Windows repair just for fun
Old 29th May 2019
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarathonMan View Post
Decided to run Latencymon 6.71 to share. As I mentioned earlier, I installed 1903 yesterday and have not noticed any difference from 1809.
What graphics card do you have?
Old 29th May 2019
  #19
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by elcct View Post
What graphics card do you have?
I'm using the integrated gpu in the Intel 9900K.
Old 29th May 2019
  #20
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daskeladden's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by elcct View Post
What graphics card do you have?
I don't think it's related to the graphic card since I disabled it and tried the internal graphic with same result. My guess is that is has something to do with motherboard/bios chipset. Since MarathonMan has a pretty new CPU and motherboard the bios and chipset are probably more updated. If you look at all the stuff jjnssn did my guess is that he has an "old" motherboard where the bios and chipset has not been updated in years. Just a guess

Edit:
People with i7 8700k Z370 build also have the problem. So maybe my old bios/motherboard theory does not hold water
Old 29th May 2019
  #21
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So, are you experiencing actual latency when you make music or just when you run this geek tool? I know that sounds snarky, but I’m seriously curious

I understand that it’s a go to deal to rail against being connected to the internet or to have windows auto update your machine and all, but, I’m not seeing any latency changes here on a win10 machine... I’m using a PCIe rme interface and onboard intel graphics if that matters rather than a usb system
Old 29th May 2019
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bgood View Post
So, are you experiencing actual latency when you make music or just when you run this geek tool? I know that sounds snarky, but I’m seriously curious

I understand that it’s a go to deal to rail against being connected to the internet or to have windows auto update your machine and all, but, I’m not seeing any latency changes here on a win10 machine... I’m using a PCIe rme interface and onboard intel graphics if that matters rather than a usb system
yes click and pops correspond with the high executions/spikes. So this is a real problem not a Latencymon problem
Old 29th May 2019
  #23
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bgood's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by daskeladden View Post
yes click and pops correspond with the high executions/spikes. So this is a real problem not a Latencymon problem
I’d bet 100 counterfeit dollars that it’s gonna end up being a conflict between the update and one or more drivers that haven’t been updated by the manufacturers yet...
Old 29th May 2019
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bgood View Post
I’d bet 100 counterfeit dollars that it’s gonna end up being a conflict between the update and one or more drivers that haven’t been updated by the manufacturers yet...
yepp seems like the the only logical conclusion. By the way a full Windows repair did not change anything
Old 30th May 2019
  #25
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by daskeladden View Post
yepp seems like the the only logical conclusion. By the way a full Windows repair did not change anything
Why don't you try Window 10 Debloater, it's a free application that essentially "debloats" your system from unnecessary programs and settings.
Old 30th May 2019
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarathonMan View Post
Why don't you try Window 10 Debloater, it's a free application that essentially "debloats" your system from unnecessary programs and settings.
Maybe I would try that. Don't think that would have any effect but you never know. I have seen some of those free debloating software but I have been afraid that it delete stuff I need. Since some has no trouble with this new update it must be something else than bloatware
Old 30th May 2019
  #27
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by daskeladden View Post
Maybe I would try that. Don't think that would have any effect but you never know. I have seen some of those free debloating software but I have been afraid that it delete stuff I need. But since I gonna clone back it does not matter.
If it's any comfort to you, I used it after updating to 1903. Everything seems to be running great in my view.
Old 30th May 2019
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarathonMan View Post
If it's any comfort to you, I used it after updating to 1903. Everything seems to be running great in my view.
can you link me to the software you used? Did you delete every bloatware or something did not delete?
Old 30th May 2019
  #29
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by daskeladden View Post
can you link me to the software you used?
https://github.com/Sycnex/Windows10Debloater

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VY5bseORlGI&t=605s

The link above is the guide I used.
Old 30th May 2019
  #30
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Did not solve the issue but worth a try. I'm downloading a new Cumulative Update from Windows now let hope that solve it
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