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Antelope or RME?
Old 3 weeks ago
  #1
Here for the gear
 

Antelope or RME?

Hi there
Recently I've bought an Antelope Goliath and Satori. First time trying Antelope products. To be frank, Goliath monitor out does really match with my listening preference. Smooth and can hear all details of stereo out. Despite to the needs of modern production techniques, I always prefer to not to get in too much technical details. But anyway, Goliath sounded great for me which covered all its PC based software problems . On the other hand, the number of inputs and connectivity opportunities was one of other reason to buy since I may extend my home studio system to a better studio in near future.

So, now I plan to buy a cheaper audio interface with a budget of max. 2200 euros. This is for my minor mobile setup. Do not need more than 8 inputs. I've checked discrete 8 , Orion and RME Fireface UFX+.My questions are:

1) Will Orion GEN3 be smart option to get at least nearly same quality of Goliath?
2) What is your opinion about the comparison FireFace and Orion?

Thanks in advance

Have a great day!!!

Last edited by Waved; 3 weeks ago at 09:47 PM.. Reason: mistake corrected..
Old 3 weeks ago
  #2
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chrischoir's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Waved View Post
Hi there
Recently I've bought an Antelope Goliath and Satori. First time trying Antelope products. To be frank, Goliath monitor out does really match with my listening preference. Smooth and can hear all details of stereo out. Despite to the needs of modern production techniques, I always prefer to not to get in too much technical details. But anyway, Goliath sounded great for me which covered all its PC based software problems . On the other hand, the number of inputs and connectivity opportunities was one of other reason to buy since I may extend my home studio system to a better studio in near future.

So, now I plan to buy a cheaper audio interface with a budget of max. 2200 euros. This is for my minor mobile setup. Do not need more than 8 inputs. I've checked discrete 8 , Orion and RME Fireface UFX+.My questions are:

1) Will Orion GEN3 be smart option to get at least nearly same quality of Goliath?
2) What is your opinion about the comparison FireFace and Orion?

Thanks in advance

Have a great day!!!
Antelope for sound quality
Old 3 weeks ago
  #3
RME for driver stability and efficiency. Antelope’s drivers are known for not being very trustable.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #4
Gear Head
 

Ive never used Antelope, but I can tell you the RME stuff I've used has been insanely rock solid, super low latency, really great products. Sound amazing too, bass especially.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #5
I agree with the DAW pc to audio interface being RME, pcie card. Then digital out to dedicated ad da. Clock source from ad.
For pro use driver stability and performance is paramount along with routability = rme
And much more flexible to be able to change the ad da side of things on a separate unit.
So the Antelope ( for ad da) as well as rme to play with the DAW os is good. I use a rme digiface on my DAW then ADAT to a metric halo uln8 for ad da and monitor control, it's attached to my internet machine. Handy for media from all sorts and keeps my DAW clean.
Before that the fireface 800 was the ad da hub and it worked well but the sound of the ULN8 is a noticeable improvement.

Last edited by bcslaam; 3 weeks ago at 11:22 AM..
Old 3 weeks ago
  #6
Here for the gear
 

Seems that the route goes to RME. I really loved the sound of Goliath. However, as everybody said rightfully, Antlelope has crazy and unpredictable software issues. I got crazy especially on Windows 10. Sorry to say that but Antelope support officers do not really provide efficient solutions. It sounds a bit rude since they do not provide updates and prompt solutions for a 4500 USD device. Pitty...
RME is on target. I’ve heard %95 positive feedbacks about it. Especially from Windows OS users.
Thanks for all your comments and replies.
Cheers
Old 2 weeks ago
  #7
Jtt
Gear Addict
 
Jtt's Avatar
 

RME if you value stability, reliability, and decades of driver support.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #8
Lives for gear
 
vicenzajay's Avatar
 

So I'm not really clear about which Antelope unit you're considering? Your first post (and the latest) talk about Goliath - but then you mention a $2200 interface and ask specifically about "Orion" vs. RME UFX++ in the first post as well?

I can speak to both the 3rd gen. Orion 32+ as well as the RME UFX++. I own both. I completely agree with those on this thread that praise the RME unit (and past units). I've owned a FF800 as the studio hub for over 10 years and just moved into the UFX++ as the primary "brain" for music production. RME drivers are fantastic - Total Mix allows for any scenario you can imagine - and the unit sounds (and looks) great.

That said, I have started a thread (and posted on others) about the *3rd gen.* Orion 32+. I cannot (and will not) speak to previous Antelope experience. There's enough on the forum about that (with details and very colorful discussion). That aside, I think they have turned a corner with the 3rd gen. interfaces - this model specifically. Since you mention 2200E, the 32+ is in your budget (keep in mind that 2200E might *not get you into the RME UFX++!). Note that I have had mine for over 3 months at this point. I don't think I'm in any kind of honeymoon, and I've been a fan of RME for nearly the entire time I've spent recording/mixing music.

The 32+ has been super solid for me with no driver issues at all. I use USB2, and I get all 32 channels without dropouts, crackles, or any problems whatsoever. The monitor outs are simply amazing. Like you noted on the Goliath monitor outs, I have been quite impressed with their emphasis on making the D/A conversion for monitoring the very best they can squeeze into the unit - the specs (for what they're worth) are well beyond 'reference/mastering grade' specs. The FPGA effects, while not inexpensive, are something you can add when and if you'd like. If you do, you'll find they are superb and work with zero latency using a hardware signal flow. The control panel is super flexible (if not entirely intuitive - but then again Total Mix is overwhelming if you do more than just ensure signal is being routed to the correct ins/outs).

Perhaps most importantly, I have had *zero* issues getting quality "support" from individuals when I'm asking "how to" questions, etc. Each time, even though there's not been any 'problem' with the unit, they have initiated a trouble ticket immediately and worked with me quickly to get my questions answered, etc. I completely understand that this may have been an issue in the past (see multiple threads here)...my point is that, just maybe, the complaints have been heard and the company (and products) are taking a decidedly positive turn.

I took a chance on the 32+....it's been a gem. I thoroughly love the workflow and sound of the unit, and really I can't believe it costs as little as it does for 32 channels of this level of conversion - coupled into a solid interface that offers TB if you have it, yet works superbly on USB2. It has all kinds of routing (as does the RME, of course) to offer in addition to top-tier, professional grade clocking built in (with multiple word outs so you can use it as your studio master clock).

Just some thoughts - and apologies if I misinterpreted the unit you might be looking at, I just couldn't tell clearly from the posts.

Edit - okay, re-reading, I see you've already bought the Goliath, right? If so, then you'll have to decide if you want to work with two Antelope units or do what several here do (RME as interface, Antelope unit as converters). What is your primary use/vision for the second interface? Is it for recording on a mobile computer? Then I'd advise the Discrete 8 - which comes with *all the FPGA effects free, by the way, through the end of this month as Antelope is running a special. I wish I needed another mobile rig as that deal is super enticing.

Bottom line - I think additional (extra) interfaces at this price level should perhaps be very targeted in their application. Given that you already own the Goliath, and if it's intended for mobile use, then I think (my .02) the UFX++ is overkill.

Last edited by vicenzajay; 2 weeks ago at 03:31 AM.. Reason: my reading comprehension sucks today
Old 1 week ago
  #9
Here for the gear
 

Hello Vic
Thanks so much for your very clear reply and sorry for my incomplete post.

Actually, I am using Goliath for my primary setup and loved its' sound and interface.

I discussed especially about Stereo Monitoring hence conversion quality since I am looking forward to build up a simple mobile system or an other system for my minor work space.

Goliath is fine but I had many issues on my Windows 10 system specifically after the firmware update. Goliath was frozen during Golden Reboot while I was updating. Then I solved the problem. But from that time onwards problems such as drop outs or cracks started to reoccur. Besides to that, Goliath looses it's connection with computer periodically. I have to restart it. Also consulted to Antelope two times but believe me their support was not efficient. Their attitude was like ''Oh..Whatever..Struggle with it. We have new machines now" ....I was a bit disappointed by getting that kind of none-efficient support for such an expensive unit.

For the dropout issue, I haven't tried additional options yet. Not being a system professional, I did a research and found some solution advises such disabling hyper threading or latency modifications. I will try those as soon as I get back to home. Please note that my system is C621e Sage, Double Intel Xeon Gold 14 cores processors hosting 3 Samsung 970 evo hard disks, 320GB Ram memory. Let me know if you have any opinions. I really appreciate if you can.

Continuing my research, I got many positive advise about RME UFX+ especially for Windows operating systems. Orion 32 was also in my target. But, Goliath really frightened me.

Looking forward to hear your reply.

Kindly
Old 1 week ago
  #10
Lives for gear
 
vicenzajay's Avatar
 

Do you have a trouble ticket actually "active" with Antelope on your Goliath issue? Sam (Sam Antelope Audio is the username) is typically very responsive here on the forums. Shoot him a PM and let him know your trouble ticket number and history. I can't imagine that the Goliath (which is still a current product) is something they are just going to make you "sink or swim" with at all.

More details on how you're running it - buffers/latency? USB/TB? How many active inputs/outputs simultaneously? DAW?

More info is going to help everyone troubleshoot this with you.

I love my Orion box - completely solid and stable. I also love the RME UFX+...
Old 1 week ago
  #11
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Antonio Escobar View Post
RME for driver stability and efficiency. Antelope’s drivers are known for not being very trustable.
RME are known for their rock hard stable drivers. The company themselves develop and maintain their driver software as opposed to leaving that responsibility to a third-party company, which has resulted in possibly the best drivers for an interface that you will indeed find.

Antelope is however from what I've been told a group of respectable guys who can make quality gear.

So what do you want? the best drivers? Converters? Pre-Amps?
Old 6 days ago
  #12
Here for the gear
 

Hi Vicenzajay
Couldn't reply since I was in an other area with limited net access. I will contact with Sam.

Yesterday, as soon as I arrive, did a recheck about what's happening with my computer.

Computer hosts, a monitor via HDMI, Goliath and Satori Via USB 3.0 (also tried USB universal sockets), RS4 remote, Ilok and USB licenser, Komplete Kontrol S88mk2 via USB 3.0.

My setup is:
ASUS C621e SAGE motherboard
XEON Gold 6132 14 core 2,60 Ghz Turbo 3,70ghz
XEON Gold 6132 14 core 2,60 Ghz Turbo 3,70ghz
DDR 4-ECC 32GB 2666mhz x 10 (320GB)
SSD SAMSUNG SATA3 40000GB 860 EVO
SSD SAMSUNG SATA3 40000GB 860 EVO
SSD m.2 SAMSUNG 20000GB 970 EVO
VGA RTX2070 MSI 8GB GDDR6
VGA Cooler Passive ATI/GTX2
VGA Booster self-regulating 11
WLAN ASUS PCE-AC86
USB 3.0 ADAPTER PCIe
FIREWIRE Adapter DAWI dc-fw800 PCIe
USB 3.0 Adapter 5.25 Front
1000 W Power Supply
WINDOWS 10 64bit
Computer electric plug is connected to Furman PL-Pro DMC E


Actually first symptoms were Youtube errors.

Then Audio Drop outs started. Freezes recording. Besides to that I can hear some crack noise when I adjust volume knob of Satori.

I run the monitor latency software and found that hdaudbus.sys, ntoskrnl.exe and ASUS wirless adapter are causing serious DPC or ISR latency.

I updated all SSD drivers.

Checked the date of all drivers and updated if necessary.

Some drivers such as Antelope is old-dated 2016. Couldn't find any new one. I hope Antelope a ,bit concentrates on Windows 10.

Tried to disable Hyperthreading from BIOS menu, but computer gets weird when I do that. Windows screen freezes or even not loading. Or sometimes all computer freezes suddenly.

On the other hand I tried all advised methods to reducing the latency, except BIOS update. However, I do not think BIOS needs an update since it has been just one month since I bought it.

I tried also disabling Anti-virus software.

I adjust the buffer size of Goliath to 1024. No changes about the issue. However, Cubase Pro 10 input and output latency values do not change even if I adjust Antelope buffer size.

However, when I plug off Goliath and Satori , audio drop out issue gets better but not solved. Only, Generic ASIO option do not cause drop outs.

What I plan now is contact with Computer company.

Please let me know your opinion.

Regards
Old 6 days ago
  #13
Here for the gear
 

Hi Swedishguy

What I want is No Problem. Solid Drivers for sure important. But, sound quality is also another important part of work. So I would say Drivers and Quality of converters since I do not look for heavy recording operations for my mobile system.

Thanks
Old 5 days ago
  #14
Here for the gear
 

Hello again
I did a deep workout today.
There I discovered something funny and a bit weird.
Prefering to stay on creative side, I managed to once more focus on technical.
Tried connecting the antennas to Asus Wlan adater. Suddenly network issues solved. Then I again checked the update of Graphics Card. The information of windows was false. So, latest update loaded now.
At the moment , latency monitoring software warns 6 minutes after..It was 1,30 minutes before.
Machine seems stablized currently. However test results shows that problems about hdaudbus.sys and ntoskrnl.exe still there but with less countings.
If you have any suggestions, I am still ready to hear.

In anyway, Goliath continues to disconnect randomly. I will recontact to vendor about this.

And then I’ve decided to buy Orion 32+ Gen3. I know that RME is one the company that focuses on PC integrations. But, relistening the detailed audio definitions of my Goliath and consulting to several professionals, I take the route to Orion.

Thank you very much.
Old 5 days ago
  #15
Lives for gear
 
vicenzajay's Avatar
 

I think (just my take on this) that you'll be quite happy with the 3rd gen. Orion 32+.

I would still (in your place) open an official trouble ticket with Antelope about the Goliath and Satori oddities that you've been experiencing. Also, when possible, please disable your wireless card when doing audio work - PCs really aren't very good at doing music production and online addressing simultaneously - especially if you want lower latencies and are recording.

Also check that your cpu cores are "unparked" (google "Core unparking application") and perhaps even use the graphics driver software to lock the GPU to a particular speed/frequency. If you are using these Antelope units as your music interfaces, use the BIOS to disable the motherboard's onboard HD audio.

Just some suggestions....

Last edited by vicenzajay; 5 days ago at 05:27 PM..
Old 5 days ago
  #16
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Waved View Post
....

My setup is:
ASUS C621e SAGE motherboard
XEON Gold 6132 14 core 2,60 Ghz Turbo 3,70ghz
XEON Gold 6132 14 core 2,60 Ghz Turbo 3,70ghz
DDR 4-ECC 32GB 2666mhz x 10 (320GB)
SSD SAMSUNG SATA3 40000GB 860 EVO
SSD SAMSUNG SATA3 40000GB 860 EVO
SSD m.2 SAMSUNG 20000GB 970 EVO
VGA RTX2070 MSI 8GB GDDR6
VGA Cooler Passive ATI/GTX2
VGA Booster self-regulating 11
WLAN ASUS PCE-AC86
USB 3.0 ADAPTER PCIe
FIREWIRE Adapter DAWI dc-fw800 PCIe
USB 3.0 Adapter 5.25 Front
1000 W Power Supply
WINDOWS 10 64bit
Computer electric plug is connected to Furman PL-Pro DMC E
....
First, let me say that I'm not appending to help solve your problem.
Second, let me say : WOW !

I can't tell where you are in the world, but I think I'd swim over to be in the room to work on getting this thing dialed in for you. Two small things: You have an extra zero in your SSD sizes, and the other small thing that you might already know; the 5 DIMMs per CPU is not optimal. Are your DIMM's installed 5+5 or 6+4 ?

There's a Lenovo PDF (link below) for this family of processors that on page 12 about Summary of Best Practices says:

" Always populate all six DDR4 memory channels on each processor using identical DIMMs. If this is not possible, the next best option is to populate all DDR4 channels with equal memory capacity."

It's a sentence from a publication called Optimizing Memory Performance of Lenovo ThinkSystem Servers [ https://lenovopress.com/lp0697.pdf ]

I'm subscribing to this thread just to see how things go, but I couldn't let this go by without acknowledging what a wonderful computer you have there.
Old 5 days ago
  #17
Here for the gear
 

Hi Gary
Thank you very much for the compliment. My computer preference was always Apple products. However, Apple computers providing limited opportunity of tweaking and upgrading , I shifted to PC years ago. I sometimes still use Apple computer but to be frank that's mainly for minor things or for other things to be in sync with all my other Apple devices.

My DIMM installation is 5+5 as far as I know. I say "As far as I know'' since I felt getting into technical things started to kill my creativity and harm the spirit of music. However, I remember that it was 5+5. I will recheck with my IT guys and then will be able to reply your question more accurately.

And, yes ...There had been an inflation of Zero

Cheers.
Old 5 days ago
  #18
Here for the gear
 

Hi Vicenzajay

Thanks for all your advise and support. Will follow your notes.

I always enjoyed PC with proper setup. However, it takes time for PC to settle down with updates. I've got an other PC system which is very minor with 64gb Ram and AMD 8 core CPU on it. It is like a mobile unit which I take with me during my abroad trips or vacations. It is extremely solid and a practical companion. Took a while also for it to settle. Just like they say "There is no rose without a thorn"

I will update this thread in a few days , as soon as I get results from Antelope and do necessary modifications on computer unit.

Cheers.
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