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Higher Sample Rate or More DSP Audio Interfaces
Old 1 week ago
  #1
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Higher Sample Rate or More DSP

I have the UA Apollo DUO, so I've been recording at 44.1k for the extra DSP. I've been thinking about switching to 96k tho.. I've noticed alot of people saying that time based effects are more accurate, basically plugins in general responding much better. I'd be cutting my DSP on the UA stuff in half, but I think it might be worth it. I'm gonna try it out this weekend, but I'm curious what u guys think.
Old 1 week ago
  #2
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Hi,

sometimes it isn't so easy to predict possible negative impact on performance with doubling of working sample rate.
Well, it still applies, that doubling of sample rate generally means, DAW (and plugins) needs to calculate doubled amount of samples per second.
However it's not always such linear increase.

First thing is, that quite a few high quality plugins already works internally in higher sample rate, if the new global rate would match that, it would actually consume less CPU than in say 44.1, because you'l skip the oversampling.
That applies also to quite few UAD plugins, some Waves, SoundToys etc.
(you can easily recognize it.. plugin reports its shorter processing latency in samples to DAW, when working at higher rate).

The other and indirect thing is, that if you start from the scratch in different rate, you might find, you use effects bit differently with higher rates.
For example lot of standard effects (like the ones, you have in DAW or rather efficient older plugins like older ones by Waves) works already bit better than at base rates, so you don't need to use more demanding plugins (which for example might use internal oversampling, exactly because of improved sound at base rates).
But of course, that depends on particular project, workflow taste etc.

Finally just to mention one maybe obvious thing, if you double working rate and don't need to lower latency, then you can also double working buffer length. This will also help you to conserve some CPU power.

Michal
Old 1 week ago
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msmucr View Post

Finally just to mention one maybe obvious thing, if you double working rate and don't need to lower latency, then you can also double working buffer length. This will also help you to conserve some CPU power.
Oh, really? So the lower the buffer the more CPU? What do u usually rec at vs mix at?

Also, you're saying the plugins have to work less at higher sample rates? The only ones that really kick my CPU in the teeth are the Aqua ones. Ya think I'd be able to get more instances at 96 vs 44.1? CPU isn't the issue tho with the UA stuff.
Old 1 week ago
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 79adam79 View Post
Oh, really? So the lower the buffer the more CPU? What do u usually rec at vs mix at?
No, I haven't said that..

If you switch sample rate of your project say from 44.1 to 96k with the same working buffer length (in samples), then your input and output latency (in msec) will be lower. That's logical, because that length takes proportionally less time with higher rate.

So if you don't need that lower latency (eg. you're satisfied with what you get), then with higher working rate at 96k, you can also increase your buffer length compared to what you use at 44.1k.
That increased buffer length also means to some extent, CPU would have some more time for real-time processing.

Quote:
Also, you're saying the plugins have to work less at higher sample rates?
No. Generally plugins has to work harder at higher rates, again that's proportional, because more samples per second has to be processed.
But that won't necessarily applies to all plugins.
Some of used plugins might be already working at higher rate internally. In that case its CPU consumption will me the same or even tiny bit lower (if it additionally skips necessary oversampling), when you switch the project to higher rate.

Quote:
The only ones that really kick my CPU in the teeth are the Aqua ones. Ya think I'd be able to get more instances at 96 vs 44.1? CPU isn't the issue tho with the UA stuff.
Sorry I try to avoid all that Acqua/Nebula stuff. Can't help there with direct experience with their recent stuff, but I'd guess, it's CPU consumption will be doubled by rate increase.

No you don't get more instances of plugins at 96k, rather exactly opposite, as I've explained with more samples to process per second.
But in most real world scenarios with mixture of different types plugins and adjusted buffer length, the impact of using doubled working rate won't be so severe (eg. count of available plugin instances typically won't be halved).

To some extent, similar things like for native stuff applies also to UAD. There you don't need to care about host CPU, but rather about available DSP resources. Some of their plugins are already oversampled and consumption would be the same, others will eat two times more from DSP with doubled rate.

Michal

Last edited by msmucr; 1 week ago at 12:40 PM..
Old 1 week ago
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msmucr View Post
No, I haven't said that..
Haha. No, you've gotten everything ass backwards, damn it!

You mention switching the project over from 44.1 to 96.. I thought that your stuck at the sample rate u start at.

Also, why do u avoid the Aqua stuff?

Thanks for the help.
Old 1 week ago
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 79adam79 View Post
Haha. No, you've gotten everything ass backwards, damn it!

You mention switching the project over from 44.1 to 96.. I thought that your stuck at the sample rate u start at.
I just try to expand about performance hit you might be facing with the switch.

Quote:
Also, why do u avoid the Aqua stuff?
Hmm, I guess, it just doesn't fit my workflow and also I don't like all the hype around.
Its full of quirks at all levels, poor ergonomics with UI skeuomorphism getting out of sane proportions, weird response to controls etc. Inevitable issues with CPU and memory resources, slow project loads.

To be fair, they working on that and likely improved lot of aspects compared to their first Acqua releases or Nebula (I used it 10 ago, even "sampled" some hardware with NAT).
However whole spirit of erratic (IMO) development direction and focus on adding new and new fancy plugins under another cryptic names.. instead of some serious framework, which could enable them to apply common fixes and improvements to all supported plugins (akin to Waves or UAD unified releases). But it seems it works for them and fans are happy.

I can see, why someone might be attracted to its use, gave it significant efforts (upgraded to mega cpu, even change DAW) and feels, it's worth of that. Kudos to them, maybe as they already jumped on bandwagon, they just really appreciate new and new plugins, don't feel any serious restrictions.
Just I'm more happy with nice algorithmic stuff, which is much more flexible to me, and if I would like to get hardware, then I'd rather combine "normal" DAW effects with some outboard.. Which isn't cheap (nor their plugins are, say for five Acquas at list price, you can get 800 series bus compressor), you can't use it in multitude instances, but on the other hand, if you select it well, it can be much more fun and inspiring to use, it can work also for tracking, keeps reasonable resale value etc.

Michal
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