The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 Search This Thread  Search This Forum  Search Reviews  Search Gear Database  Search Gear for sale  Search Gearslutz Go Advanced
MIDI 2.0 Prototyping announced Control Surfaces
Old 19th January 2019
  #1
News Desk Editor
 
The Press Desk's Avatar
 

MIDI 2.0 Prototyping announced


The MIDI Manufacturers Association (MMA) and the Association of Music Electronics Industry (AMEI) announce MIDI 2.0™ Prototyping

The MIDI Manufacturers Association (MMA) and AMEI (the Japanese MIDI association) have finalized the core features and name for the next generation MIDI protocol: MIDI 2.0. Member companies are currently working together to develop prototypes based on a jointly developed, feature-complete, draft specification. A members-only plugfest to test compatibility between some early MIDI 2.0 prototypes is planned for Winter NAMM 2019. Participating companies include Ableton/Cycling '74, Art+Logic, Bome Software, Google, imitone, Native Instruments, Roland, ROLI, Steinberg, TouchKeys, and Yamaha.

As with MIDI 1.0, AMEI and the MMA are working closely together and sharing code to streamline the prototype development process. Prototyping is planned to continue during 2019 as the associations work together on MIDI 2.0 launch plans, including exploring the development of a MIDI 2.0 logo and self-certification program for MMA and AMEI member companies.

During the prototyping phase, the proposed MIDI 2.0 specification is available only to MMA and AMEI members, because the prototyping process may trigger minor enhancements to the specification. Once a final specification is adopted, it will join the current MIDI specifications as a free download on Home.

The MIDI 2.0 initiative updates MIDI with auto-configuration, new DAW/web integrations, extended resolution, increased expressiveness, and tighter timing -- all while maintaining a high priority on backward compatibility. This major update of MIDI paves the way for a new generation of advanced interconnected MIDI devices, while still preserving interoperability with the millions of existing MIDI 1.0 devices. One of the core goals of the MIDI 2.0 initiative is to also enhance the MIDI 1.0 feature set whenever possible.

All companies that develop MIDI products are encouraged to join the MMA to participate in the future development of the specification, and to keep abreast of other developments in MIDI technology.

About the MIDI Manufacturers Association (MMA)

The MIDI Manufacturers Association is an international group of hardware and software companies working together to develop new MIDI specifications and promote MIDI technology. For more information on the MMA corporate membership, please visit: MIDI Manufacturers Association.

The MMA also supports The MIDI Association, a growing, global community of over 18,000 people who work, play, and create with MIDI technology at Home. To stay up to date with the latest MIDI news and stories, and to access current MIDI specifications and receive the MIDI Association's MIDI Message newsletter, sign up for free at: MIDI Association Signup.
Attached Thumbnails
MIDI 2.0 Prototyping announced-midi-2.0-environment-midi-ci-overview-diagram-9.jpg  
Old 19th January 2019
  #2
Lives for gear
Great news!
Old 19th January 2019
  #3
Gear Nut
The MMA adopted MPE a year ago, and MPE is far from widespread. Would really like to see it natively supported in DAWs too.
Old 20th January 2019
  #4
Lives for gear
 
Tommy-boy's Avatar
 

I’ll believe it when I see it marketed in several commercial products.

They have been horsing around with the next gen of midi for literally decades, with nothing to show for it. Quit screwing around and get some results. Midi 1.0 has served us since 1983. Midi 2.0 is long overdue.

Tom
Old 20th January 2019
  #5
Lives for gear
 
elambo's Avatar
This is a step forward and *any* step toward a modern protocol is a good and necessary thing.
Old 21st January 2019
  #6
Lives for gear
254 increments. At least you could divide by 2.
Old 21st January 2019
  #7
0-255 is still just 256 explicit integers offset by 1 cause cause binary numbers count from 0 and humans start from 1

why 254? when 256/0-255 is in binary is more easily processed..

I just hope the standard they come up with isn't too complicated for people to understand and existing hardware to get firmware/driver updates to support the new protocol or remain transparent.
Old 21st January 2019
  #8
It has to be backwards compatible.....which makes me suspicious any improvements will be minor. But, fingers crossed.
Old 21st January 2019
  #9
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tommy-boy View Post
I’ll believe it when I see it marketed in several commercial products.

They have been horsing around with the next gen of midi for literally decades, with nothing to show for it. Quit screwing around and get some results. Midi 1.0 has served us since 1983. Midi 2.0 is long overdue.

Tom
This. 20 years too late.

The fact that there is no oversight of how MIDI is implemented by manufacturers has meant that this tech is often poorly implemented, and large parts of it are ignored by manufacturers cutting corners.

The MIDI association updated the spec almost 2 years ago adding Capability Inquiry, which on paper is a fantastic upgrade.... Not a single product, hard or soft, released since has implemented it...

The hardware market no longer cares about MIDI, because it is seen as something only old people use, with the majority of electronic music producers working entirely with software. The MIDI association itself looks pretty out of touch with contemporary electronic music making...

As far as I can tell, the hardware market survives to this day out of two target consumer groups: 1) newbies who buy cheap stuff (Volcas etc) to mess around with and don't know or care about MIDI features. They will soon sell them on to try something else, eventually settling on a computer because it's so much more bang for your buck.
2) Older users fetishizing hardware- they tend to not need much MIDI functionality either as they're mostly keyboard players or just record live with the minimum of MIDI. A keyboard, a pitch bender and a mod wheel is all they need.

The rest of the electronic music makers are either just working with software or with CV controlled analog gear, again with minimal MIDI needs.
Old 21st January 2019
  #10
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
It has to be backwards compatible.....which makes me suspicious any improvements will be minor. But, fingers crossed.
Read the article!
Old 21st January 2019
  #11
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by goom View Post
254 increments. At least you could divide by 2.
Hello

Midi offer 16384 parameter up to 14bit since decades, called NRPN...
If you want you can only use 254 steps...

Apart for new parameter offering 16bit definition(or more but who need that ?) I don't see yet what could be improved, it's a great and easy protocol, and since we have USB midi or RTPMidi, data speed transfer is a non issue.

We'll see

Best
Zam
Old 22nd January 2019
  #12
liv
Gear Addict
 
liv's Avatar
 

Sounds good.
Looking forward to when products start to appear.

Old 22nd January 2019
  #13
Lives for gear
 

I hope tighter timing means no more jitter problems? That alone would be awesome and worth this update.
Old 22nd January 2019
  #14
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MPrinsen View Post
I hope tighter timing means no more jitter problems? That alone would be awesome and worth this update.

The jitter problems are because MIDI is not a priority in Mac or Windows, it is not a priority for DAW developers, and because a lot of hardware manufacturers don't care about it enough to make their gear good enough so that it syncs tightly.

If you use Ableton, you need a low sample buffer size (less than 256) to get good MIDI timing and you need to optimise your USB setup and the computer itself... If you have wifi on and other stuff like browsers, anti-virus, software updaters etc running in the background you can forget about good MIDI timing, especially on Windows.
Old 22nd January 2019
  #15
My Ableton buffer size is 512. I have wi-fi on permanently and I sometimes have a browser open.
I do use the odd midi instrument, but I rarely use 5 pin din midi, and I don't have multiple midi instruments all trying to play at once. I mostly work with audio, recording any sync'ed hardware sequencer or drum machine as I go along.
The people I see with the biggest issues are the people trying to run an 80's style midi studio with five or six synths and drum machines all trying to sync together.
Old 22nd January 2019
  #16
Lives for gear
 

Yea the issue is only really there if you work with multiple MIDI tracks, with at least one of them controlling a synced external sequencer/ drum machine, mixed with audio tracks.
Still, I would turn off wifi for recording. I'll be surprised if your recordings of the drum machine are on the grid.
Old 22nd January 2019
  #17
Gear Nut
 
Jeb A's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tommy-boy View Post
I’ll believe it when I see it marketed in several commercial products.

They have been horsing around with the next gen of midi for literally decades, with nothing to show for it. Quit screwing around and get some results. Midi 1.0 has served us since 1983. Midi 2.0 is long overdue.

Tom
Too good to be true?
Old 22nd January 2019
  #18
Lives for gear
I do really hope that it will be something that belongs to our time, and not a 20 year overdue spec.
It is still not published. My picks.
The bad:
  1. The process is closed. Not even the goal is
  2. Yamaha is involved, they have done addition ****ups before.
  3. Steinberg is involved. They have not maintained their software for ages.
  4. Nothing about relative controllers. Just extention of current sets.
  5. Nothing about object classes.
  6. They assume it wont work. The first thing in property exchange is manufacture & model. It should be totally irrelevant, otherwise we will get hard coded drivers everywhere.
The good
  1. Google is involved. At least someone with contemporary software skills.
  2. Bidirectional. Absolutely essential to have a chance.
And let us hope that they do a transport spec that is based on IP instead of 50 years old uarts.
Old 22nd January 2019
  #19
Lives for gear
 

Here is a video which explains it well:

YouTube

Also, Roland was talking about Rainlink a while ago, which I think will use this new midi 2.0 standard.
Old 22nd January 2019
  #20
Lives for gear
 

the good thing that a lot of good gear with midi 1.0 standard will have a price drop in second hands markets
Old 22nd January 2019
  #21
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bace View Post
And let us hope that they do a transport spec that is based on IP instead of 50 years old uarts.
Hello

Already exist...RTP-Midi

RTP-MIDI or MIDI over Networks -

work great via Bonjour on Mac, I use a kissbox OEM card...

Best
Zam
Old 23rd January 2019
  #22
Lives for gear
 

Honestly, only want 23.976 fps MTC implemented so I can stop explaining to people why MTC sync won't work "accurately" for that frame rate and they need to work at 29.97.

It doesn't help that only 1/2 the DAWs out there tell the user that it isn't going to work right while the other 1/2 pretend it is working perfectly.
Old 23rd January 2019
  #23
Lives for gear
I just hope MIDI 2.0 overcomes some of the current limits.

Midi is currently serial. It needs to become parallel. IE no additional lag when 10 controllers are added to 88 notes in real time. This can't even be done right now. Seabaords come close using up tons of MIDI bandwidth. Pitch bending needs much more attention than a single controller per channel.

Doubling the resolution after 40 years is not enough. Should be more like 1000 to 10,000 steps for volume in the next standard.

A new trigger standard is needed. Right now most trigger play a game of switch the note number to get a rim sound. I want to have any % rim with any % head at any given head or rim volume. This does require sounds to be blended rather than a 1 to 1 map. it's not practical to require a huge grid if sounds to accomplish the result. But it should be possible.

Triggers needing 3ms to decide how loud they are hit is bogus. There should be a way to reduce that in a cost effective way. Currently no solution to overcome the mixture.

Input devices (Keys, triggers) are limited by the MIDI standard. Make the new midi standard in a way that if free's up companies and people to design cool input devices.
Old 23rd January 2019
  #24
Lives for gear
 
TS-12's Avatar
Too late, I ditched windows and their redicluluos WindowsMIDI (not the good old direct music drivers) and moved to Mac OS. No more jitter.
Old 23rd January 2019
  #25
Gear Maniac
This video has more info. It looks interesting and promising.

YouTube
Old 23rd January 2019
  #26
Gear Head
 
Janus's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bondsong View Post
This video has more info. It looks interesting and promising.

YouTube
Very informative talk!
Old 23rd January 2019
  #27
After 30 years of deliberation we announce the name for the possible maybe next version of MIDI... "MIDI 2.0" !! Huzzah! Next task, come up with a connector standard, see you in 100 years.
Old 23rd January 2019
  #28
Gear Addict
 

Like many, I'm trying to figure out my next controller move - and was gravitating towards NI's Komplete Kontrol paradigm.

But this mixes things up a bit: profile configuration and property exchange protocols would essentially make the whole MIDI universe into NKS. In such case NI will turn out to have been an early implementor of something that will (hopefully sooner but probably later) be everywhere.

I think we're probably talking about a years-long wait for implementation and widespread adoption. So I suppose ~$1000 for a nice 88-key weighted S88 controller isn't a terrible deal even so. Yet....
Old 23rd January 2019
  #29
Lives for gear
I think a years long wait for a standard to be finalized is to be expected, then some time before we start seeing new controllers out there, DAWs updated, etc. Definitely wouldn't hold off on making a purchase now. Plus, I'd speculate that modern controllers could be updated to support the new standard after the fact. Unless they just wanted to get you to buy new hardware.
Old 23rd January 2019
  #30
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by zamproject View Post
Hello

Already exist...RTP-Midi

RTP-MIDI or MIDI over Networks -

work great via Bonjour on Mac, I use a kissbox OEM card...

Best
Zam
Yes. But it need to be updated for bidirectional requirements. And is it really a part of MIDI spec? I thought is was "outside".
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Similar Threads
Thread
Thread Starter / Forum
Replies
The Press Desk / Product Alerts older than 2 months
0
ProtocaseAdam / Electronic Music Instruments and Electronic Music Production
0
_ali / So Much Gear, So Little Time
23
u b k / Work In Progress / Advice Requested / Show and Tell / Artist Showcase / Mix-Offs
14

Forum Jump
Forum Jump