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Anyone else think Arturia's products are rather lame?
Old 29th December 2018
  #1
Gear Addict
 

Anyone else think Arturia's products are rather lame?

When Arturia first came out I was really wowed by them. But they seem to fail miserably the moment you compare them to other company's offerings. I stopped using the Arturia mini moog soon after getting the IK Minimonsta, which is far superior. The modular pales in comparison with something like Admiral Quality's Poly-ana. I stopped using their Oberheim models in favor of the OP-X pro. The Roland JP8 is kinda unusable and the Prophet sucks compared to the Uhe pro one model. Nothing in their bundle is as fat as the Uhe Diva.

And the pianos and B3 emulations are just sad. I still use my old B4 (with jbridge) because it sounds so much better.

Has anyone had a better experience? I have been programming synths since the seventies and it seems the closer other manufactures get to a realistic analog sound, the further away Arturia moves.
Old 29th December 2018
  #2
Lives for gear
 

Nope. Just my opinion, but no. I like UHe fine, Xils quite a lot! NI is a bit boring... but no. Arturia is very much like a fine vanilla ice cream: maybe not exotic, but very well made.

I have yet to fail to make them work for me...

Though I do favor the Juno and DX more than the rest.
Old 29th December 2018
  #3
Gear Maniac
 

No, I do not.
Old 29th December 2018
  #4
Gear Maniac
Dude what the hell kind of post is this? Yes there are people here who don't like Arturia's products. I'm sure some even find them lame. It's a freaking Internet forum.

If you don't like their products don't use them. It's pretty simple. But it's seriously uncool to **** all over the hard work of someone else.
Old 29th December 2018
  #5
Gear Head
 

I find the sound quality of there products to be good but I have the spark drum plugin which I hardly use due to it being too buggy and glitchy. When I do use it I render to audio ASAP!
Old 29th December 2018
  #6
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greggybud's Avatar
I have been playing with synths since the 70s.

Discounting their new emulations of digital synthesizers, the only VST I choose over the Arturia version is Memorymoon ME-80. Part of that reason is that until 2 years ago Arturias GUI's were not re-sizable. Artiruas was simply too much in too little space. The Memorymoon ME-80 came in 2 versions. Also, the Memorymoon sound seems more close, however I don't own the real thing.

Based on other reviews the OPx pro gets rave reviews over Arturia. I have a real OB8, a Yamaha TX-802, and a real Prophet so I'm satisfied.

Moogs...I'm sure Uhe is best from what I read. But be aware of how much processing it needs. I'm still happy with my Voyager.

Pianos and organs: Pianos are IMO somewhat of a joke compared to developers who focus only on pianos. However I could say the same about a lot of the NI pianos, some which have vanished over the years. Pianos seem to be a thing they just toss in the package. The organs can be deviated so much it totally depends on your mix. But if you want a close emulation to the real thing such as the B4, you are right.

I got in with Arturia years ago. The only new addition that interests me is the Fairlight, but I use Bitley and Darklight. I'll upgrade when Arturia decides to add...Bennys GX1.
Old 29th December 2018
  #7
Gear Guru
 
kafka's Avatar
I think they're great. I love the V Collection. I agree that OP-X Pro-II leaves Matrix-12 in the dust, but other than that, I'm totally impressed with everything else.
Old 29th December 2018
  #8
Here for the gear
 

I have not a single of their soft but the first product I bought 3 months ago was the Drumbrute....Bought Used at CAN$ 400. I was scared to be back into drumbox, last time I used one was in the 80's!!!!
But it took me very few time to master the DRUMBRUTE, the User Interface is so easy that I will add the impact to the set up shortly.
So, no, Arturia Hardware is no lame at all...
Old 29th December 2018
  #9
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kafka View Post
I think they're great. I love the V Collection.
Me too. I got the V collection for $250. That's a great deal and, for the most part, they sound fantastic.
Old 30th December 2018
  #10
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by rezoneight View Post
Dude what the hell kind of post is this? Yes there are people here who don't like Arturia's products. I'm sure some even find them lame. It's a freaking Internet forum.

If you don't like their products don't use them. It's pretty simple. But it's seriously uncool to **** all over the hard work of someone else.
Oh... I'm so terribly sorry that I offended you. They got paid (at least by me), for "the hard work" they've done. Why does Arturia get a free pass on any criticism of their products.

I've always found something better to handle a part and haven't upgraded since they started coming out really awful piano and organs. And I won't even go into the JP8 or the "CS80."

I would rather they spend more time tweaking the synths that I originally bought into their software for. I was wondering if anyone else felt that way. Obviously, Arturia has plenty of fans out there. I didn't realize that it was against the rules of decorum to say anything but glowing things about software developers.

Apologizes again. I don't mind the SEM though.

A thousand Pardons. But then again... you can always take your own advice.

If you don't like the things I write, don't bother to read them.
Old 30th December 2018
  #11
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Musician's Avatar
Their Jupiter plugin is terrible. I dont get how they handle the release time but it never resets properly so the envelope is all over the place. Sometimes it doesnt hold the sound correctly and given that the sweetspots are small that was the last straw for me. Buying a S8.
Old 31st December 2018
  #12
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by jammiedodger666 View Post
Oh... I'm so terribly sorry that I offended you. They got paid (at least by me), for "the hard work" they've done. Why does Arturia get a free pass on any criticism of their products.
Never said they get a free pass so when you actually provide some good criticism maybe I'll agree. For a guy who supposedly has been programming synths since the 70s it should be easy no? Here is the kind of stuff you said mate:

"The Roland JP8 is kinda unusable and the Prophet sucks compared to the Uhe pro one model. Nothing in their bundle is as fat as the Uhe Diva."

That is not criticism. Why is the JP8 "kinda unusable"? Why does the Prophet suck compare to the U-he Pro Five (not the Pro One)? (and who else is doing a VS emulation)?

Are the Arturia models the best ones out there for those two instruments? No, but Pro One/Five didn't exist until a year ago. Same for Roland's JP-8 emulation with the release of the System-8 about a year ago (theoretically the JP-8 Boutique first but that was only 4 voices). Jup-8V came out in 2007 dude. It was the only game in town for about a decade.

Diva isn't an emulation of anything in particular and it's still a resource killer. Sounds fantastic. Has a lot of programmability, but it isn't a Jupiter-8 emulation. In fact I'd go so far as to say Diva probably sounds better than a real JP-8, but then again it's a hell of a lot more complicated instrument too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jammiedodger666 View Post
I've always found something better to handle a part and haven't upgraded since they started coming out really awful piano and organs. And I won't even go into the JP8 or the "CS80."
JP-8 emulation was good enough for Howard Jones to take out on tour in place of the real thing. What's your beef with it? Who is doing a better piano simulation? Doing a model of a string instrument like a piano is pretty damn hard which is why most aren't doing it and do sample libraries instead. Sounds pretty good to me honestly but I prefer my NI sampled pianos. Who else is doing a CS-80 emulation these days? Anyone? Tried the Fairlight or Synclavier? How about the Buchla? DX7? Probably not since you said you haven't upgraded in basically forever. How about Pigments?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jammiedodger666 View Post
I would rather they spend more time tweaking the synths that I originally bought into their software for. I was wondering if anyone else felt that way.
They do, from almost day one. They've consistently provided updates and also provided features that weren't on the original instrument. What else do you want? A full rewrite?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jammiedodger666 View Post
Obviously, Arturia has plenty of fans out there. I didn't realize that it was against the rules of decorum to say anything but glowing things about software developers.
Again, give some real criticism, there certainly are criticisms to be found. Be original eh? Stop jumping on the "lets hate Arturia!" bandwagon. It's totally possible to be critical while not s***ting on their work.
Old 31st December 2018
  #13
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by greggybud View Post
Pianos and organs: Pianos are IMO somewhat of a joke compared to developers who focus only on pianos. However I could say the same about a lot of the NI pianos, some which have vanished over the years. Pianos seem to be a thing they just toss in the package. The organs can be deviated so much it totally depends on your mix. But if you want a close emulation to the real thing such as the B4, you are right.
Just to make sure we're clear, Arturia pianos and organs are modeled and not sampled.
Old 31st December 2018
  #14
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greggybud's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by rezoneight View Post
Who else is doing a CS-80 emulation these days? Anyone? Tried the Fairlight or Synclavier?
CS-80 actually yes. As said, Memorymoon ME-80 has been around for years, and IMO I it sounds closer to what I think a CS-80 should sound like. It is subjective of course.

For the Fairlight...Bitley, & Darklight.

I too could rag on Arturia about horrible customer service in the past, plus embarrassing bugs such as sustain not working on the Prophet V.

But after breaking past the initial wall of "customer support" I discovered some very fine and conscientious people doing their best, communicating practically every day trying to track down issues including the absence of sustain function. Ben at Arturia is one of those guys I give great Kudos to!

I wouldn't get my hair bent too far over a single thread in a forum. Sure the OP could have elaborated and given examples to substantiate his post, but the opposite seems to be the norm these days.
Old 31st December 2018
  #15
Deleted 46dc28f
Guest
I did, until Synclavier V.
Old 31st December 2018
  #16
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by rezoneight View Post
Never said they get a free pass so when you actually provide some good criticism maybe I'll agree. For a guy who supposedly has been programming synths since the 70s it should be easy no? Here is the kind of stuff you said mate:

"The Roland JP8 is kinda unusable and the Prophet sucks compared to the Uhe pro one model. Nothing in their bundle is as fat as the Uhe Diva."

That is not criticism. Why is the JP8 "kinda unusable"? Why does the Prophet suck compare to the U-he Pro Five (not the Pro One)? (and who else is doing a VS emulation)?

Are the Arturia models the best ones out there for those two instruments? No, but Pro One/Five didn't exist until a year ago. Same for Roland's JP-8 emulation with the release of the System-8 about a year ago (theoretically the JP-8 Boutique first but that was only 4 voices). Jup-8V came out in 2007 dude. It was the only game in town for about a decade.

Diva isn't an emulation of anything in particular and it's still a resource killer. Sounds fantastic. Has a lot of programmability, but it isn't a Jupiter-8 emulation. In fact I'd go so far as to say Diva probably sounds better than a real JP-8, but then again it's a hell of a lot more complicated instrument too.



JP-8 emulation was good enough for Howard Jones to take out on tour in place of the real thing. What's your beef with it? Who is doing a better piano simulation? Doing a model of a string instrument like a piano is pretty damn hard which is why most aren't doing it and do sample libraries instead. Sounds pretty good to me honestly but I prefer my NI sampled pianos. Who else is doing a CS-80 emulation these days? Anyone? Tried the Fairlight or Synclavier? How about the Buchla? DX7? Probably not since you said you haven't upgraded in basically forever. How about Pigments?



They do, from almost day one. They've consistently provided updates and also provided features that weren't on the original instrument. What else do you want? A full rewrite?



Again, give some real criticism, there certainly are criticisms to be found. Be original eh? Stop jumping on the "lets hate Arturia!" bandwagon. It's totally possible to be critical while not s***ting on their work.
Man... Someone's got too much time on their hands! By the way... What makes you think your opinion on my critiques of Arturia or anything else would matter to me? Besides... It's not like I said they are the Behringer of Soft Synths!

But since you spent so much time with your response, I will answer a few things. Why did Howard Jones use Arturia? I don't know... Maybe they paid him to?

What sounds more like a CS80 than the Arturia? Well.. I would have to say the Uhe Zebra. Before you get all huffy and inform me that Zebra isn't a CS80 sim (just like Diva isn't a JP8 model -- although it's certainly easy to get a Jupiter sound from Diva)...

Anyway... I realize you'll never take my word for it, so get on Facebook and check out the threads of Mr. Kent Spong, a fine English fellow and one of the best (and unfortunately last) great synthesizer repairmen. Among his friends and clients is Hans Zimmer. Kent Specializes in CS synths and when Han's needs repaired, he sends it to Kent.

So, there was a conversation about a time when Han's CS80 went down in the middle of scoring a film and he needed that Yamaha sound. Guess what he used? And it's in his own words (look it up if you like, as I haven't the inclination to find it for you)... He said that the Zebra did a bang up job and was virtually indistinguishable from the parts he did with his CS.

Moving along. Piano, Organ and electric piano models all suck, regardless of who builds them. I use B4 or Vintage Organs for Hammond, Scarbee for electric pianos and clavinet and Ivory for real pianos. I find it shameful that Arturia charges so much for these horrid "emulations" if you buy them separately.

If I want to use a Fairlight or Synclavier sample, I have Best Service Cult Sampler, which provides the original sample banks for those and just about every other sampler from that heyday.


So... I guess it wouldn't be fair to call Arturia the Behringer of virtual instruments...
Old 31st December 2018
  #17
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by Musician View Post
Their Jupiter plugin is terrible. I dont get how they handle the release time but it never resets properly so the envelope is all over the place. Sometimes it doesnt hold the sound correctly and given that the sweetspots are small that was the last straw for me. Buying a S8.
Nice you're talking about this.

I spent a week working on recreating the Jupiter-8 Factory patches on Arturia Jup-8 (I got a patch bank from someone that did the same on kvr and I'm improving his patches), and what you said about envelops is so right. There's something wrong about Jup-8 envelopes. Comparing with Roland Cloud, it seems that at least ENV1 should be mono retrigger. AND LFO Range on Arturia is wrong 0-20hz, when it should be 0-40hz). This is very important for patches that use PWM (mainly string patches), and as you said, it's very hard to find the sweetspots.
Old 31st December 2018
  #18
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iLex's Avatar
Now where is that popcorn emoticon...




Ah, there it is!
Old 2nd January 2019
  #19
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Musician's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by waltercruz View Post
Nice you're talking about this.

I spent a week working on recreating the Jupiter-8 Factory patches on Arturia Jup-8 (I got a patch bank from someone that did the same on kvr and I'm improving his patches), and what you said about envelops is so right. There's something wrong about Jup-8 envelopes. Comparing with Roland Cloud, it seems that at least ENV1 should be mono retrigger. AND LFO Range on Arturia is wrong 0-20hz, when it should be 0-40hz). This is very important for patches that use PWM (mainly string patches), and as you said, it's very hard to find the sweetspots.
Arturia, I'm sorry to say even with their latest version, has failed to make the plugin useable in any way due to above issue. The UI is much better than before but the sound lacks seriously as are the envelopes are f*cked up.
Whenever I hit replay the hanging of notes and sound changing is unacceptable. I'm done with it for good.

What I read about the Roland JX3P and Juno emulations is that they sound really authentic and thus Roland should rewrite the Jupiter 8 plugout to make it comparable to the others in sound. But will that happen, I doubt it.

I'm waiting for THAT Jupiter 8 plugin or Behringer hardware reissue (with patch memory) that both nails the sound and is a joy to program.
The great thing is that the JP8 has LOTS of tiny sweetspots and that renders LOTS of timbres for sound design.
Old 2nd January 2019
  #20
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DrSax's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by jammiedodger666 View Post
When Arturia first came out I was really wowed by them. But they seem to fail miserably the moment you compare them to other company's offerings. I stopped using the Arturia mini moog soon after getting the IK Minimonsta, which is far superior. The modular pales in comparison with something like Admiral Quality's Poly-ana. I stopped using their Oberheim models in favor of the OP-X pro. The Roland JP8 is kinda unusable and the Prophet sucks compared to the Uhe pro one model. Nothing in their bundle is as fat as the Uhe Diva.

And the pianos and B3 emulations are just sad. I still use my old B4 (with jbridge) because it sounds so much better.

Has anyone had a better experience? I have been programming synths since the seventies and it seems the closer other manufactures get to a realistic analog sound, the further away Arturia moves.
Nope... I don’t think they’re lame. If you’re gonna make a post dissing a product or in this case every product a company makes, I believe GS has a forum for that... “The Moan Zone”. For reals, this post belongs there. Moderators, please move this to the moan zone. This crap is getting old and cluttering up our forum.
Old 2nd January 2019
  #21
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrSax View Post
Nope... I don’t think they’re lame. If you’re gonna make a post dissing a product or in this case every product a company makes, I believe GS has a forum for that... “The Moan Zone”. For reals, this post belongs there. Moderators, please move this to the moan zone. This crap is getting old and cluttering up our forum.
A simpler solution would be for them to make a better product.
Old 2nd January 2019
  #22
Lives for gear
The Keylab MK II 49/61 are some of the best keyboard controllers ever made. Their TAE software tech has won awards hasn't it? The OP is on crack
Old 2nd January 2019
  #23
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TRSC View Post
The Keylab MK II 49/61 are some of the best keyboard controllers ever made. Their TAE software tech has won awards hasn't it? The OP is on crack
Right. I'm sure you are familiar with the effects of crack.

I tried one of the Arturia controllers and if you think they are some of the best, you live a sheltered life. The keys are cheaply made. I bet they last almost as long as early M-Audio keyboards. I'll stick with my old Yamaha CP31 and Akai MPK.

Your methods of evaluation leave a lot to be desired.
Old 2nd January 2019
  #24
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by jammiedodger666 View Post
Right. I'm sure you are familiar with the effects of crack.

I tried one of the Arturia controllers and if you think they are some of the best, you live a sheltered life. The keys are cheaply made. I bet they last almost as long as early M-Audio keyboards. I'll stick with my old Yamaha CP31 and Akai MPK.

Your methods of evaluation leave a lot to be desired.
Cheaply made? Compared to what man? Please point me to a controller with the build quality and one that that has as many connection options at the price point Arturia offers for their newest Keylab MK II 49/61 controllers.

Let's go, cmon.
Old 2nd January 2019
  #25
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octatonic's Avatar
My Matrix Brute takes a pounding live.
Old 2nd January 2019
  #26
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greggybud's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by jammiedodger666 View Post
A simpler solution would be for them to make a better product.
When a developer comes along, and makes better emulations, and is price competitive, I'm sure that will happen. It's supply and demand driving capitalism in a free market. Until then I guess it's just small developers offering single solutions such as the OPX or ME80. Speaking of small developers, a couple weeks ago I got an offer to upgrade Aly James V-Prom (Linn Drum LM-1) for a very small amount because he says recent warez hurt his ability to continue development. My point is that it's a relatively small market demand. If Arturia could benefit by improving, I think they would. But I guess they believe they are "close enough" for their desired market.

NI dumped the Pro-53 years ago instead of upgrading it. I guess they felt the resources need to improve their emulation over the Arturia version wasn't worth it? Today, they have practically turned their backs on synth emulations opting more for sample packs and stuff for a broader market. That should give you an idea of where the money is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TRSC View Post
The Keylab MK II 49/61 are some of the best keyboard controllers ever made. Their TAE software tech has won awards hasn't it? The OP is on crack


I'll assure you that Keylab are not some of the "best keyboard controllers ever made."

It's subjective but IMO, that would be Oberheim MC3000 long out of production, or currently, Physis K4/5
Physis Piano K4 / K5 Controllers - Save w/ Bundles! | KraftMusic.com

Compared to these, Keylabs are a toy. For feel I would even choose either of these over NI's line.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TRSC View Post
Cheaply made? Compared to what man? Please point me to a controller with the build quality and one that that has as many connection options at the price point Arturia offers for their newest Keylab MK II 49/61 controllers.

Let's go, cmon.
Maybe adding the phrase "price point in your initial post wold have been more accurate?."

Regardless, I think the OP was addressing software only.
Old 3rd January 2019
  #27
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I use and buy what I like and don't use or buy what I don't like. News at 11.
Old 3rd January 2019
  #28
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chrischoir's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jammiedodger666 View Post
When Arturia first came out I was really wowed by them. But they seem to fail miserably the moment you compare them to other company's offerings. I stopped using the Arturia mini moog soon after getting the IK Minimonsta, which is far superior. The modular pales in comparison with something like Admiral Quality's Poly-ana. I stopped using their Oberheim models in favor of the OP-X pro. The Roland JP8 is kinda unusable and the Prophet sucks compared to the Uhe pro one model. Nothing in their bundle is as fat as the Uhe Diva.

And the pianos and B3 emulations are just sad. I still use my old B4 (with jbridge) because it sounds so much better.

Has anyone had a better experience? I have been programming synths since the seventies and it seems the closer other manufactures get to a realistic analog sound, the further away Arturia moves.
These sound great. Loopback through a nice mic pre or a burl and you will be fine
Old 7th January 2019
  #29
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totty's Avatar
No I really like Arturia. I’ve just taken delivery of a Keystep and it’s a wonderful compact controller. In my setup I like having a small keyboard underneath my laptop and it does the job very well. Haven’t touched the sequencer yet as it’s mainly for DAW use but compared with my JD-Xi I was using beforehand the keybed is night and day better. Wish it was 37 keys instead of 32 but can’t have it all.

I tried the Jup 8 emu a while back and preferred Roland Cloud version although I did think the filter was quite nice.
Old 7th January 2019
  #30
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alndln View Post
I use and buy what I like and don't use or buy what I don't like. News at 11.
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