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Anyone else think Arturia's products are rather lame?
Old 7th January 2019
  #31
Gear Nut
 
ianblack8's Avatar
Can someone point at what exactly is the problem with Jup8's envelope and how it compares to the original? (never used one) I've seen this mentioned a few times in this thread, but couldn't find what is the problem in particular, so I would really appreciate if anyone explains the issue.
As for the subject, have to disagree. But I will point out that if you judge these plugins by included presets, you're doing them quite a disservice, some of those can be misleading and not very good, quite frankly. (it is most rewarding if you learn how these instruments work and come up with your own ideas for sounds, of course). Also, the real advantage of modeled instruments is tweakablity (especially on organs, pianos) which you obviously can't get from samples. You can do some esoteric stuff with "under-the-hood" parameters which will sound unique and haven't yet been on any record. (as opposed to popular sample libraries)
Old 7th January 2019
  #32
Gear Maniac
I have a Keystep and a Beatstep Pro. I like them both quite a bit!
Old 7th January 2019
  #33
Lives for gear
 

Internet forums in a nutshell:

It's great!
It's sucks!
Lets fight!

rinse and repeat
Old 7th January 2019
  #34
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianblack8 View Post
Can someone point at what exactly is the problem with Jup8's envelope and how it compares to the original?
I'm comparing with Jupiter Cloud (I think that I will never have access to the original, but Roland Cloud seems to be close enough).

At least in solo mode, the Env1 should be mono retrigger.

Someone who had access to a real Jupiter pointed it on Arturia Forums on 2016.

Jupiter 8v3 Domo Arigato Where is Legato?

I attached a simple legato melody, using the patch 15 Cars Sync on both synths, first Arturia, and after that, Jupiter 8 Cloud.
Attached Files

envelopes jup.wav (3.23 MB, 659 views)

Old 7th January 2019
  #35
Gear Maniac
Another example, comparing the patch 23 - Echo Piano.

First is Arturia, second is Roland Jupiter plugin.

You can compare these audios with the audio from synthmania too

http://www.synthmania.com/Roland%20J...HO%20PIANO.mp3

BTW, I recreated the factory patches from Synthmania scans.

Notice that in Arturia there's a little bump on the atack of each note.
Attached Files

envelopes jup-echo-piano.wav (2.42 MB, 663 views)

Old 8th January 2019
  #36
Lives for gear
 
ToneKontrol's Avatar
 

Yes.

All lame.

Includes all their hardware.
Old 8th January 2019
  #37
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ToneKontrol View Post
Yes.

All lame.

Includes all their hardware.
The hardware is horrible. The Beatstep Pro has the worst timing of any sequencer I've used. Who would even think to make a hardware sequencer that has sloppy timing?
Old 8th January 2019
  #38
Gear Addict
 

I've been getting some big sounds out of the Microbrute. The onboard sequencer is a bit naff, borderline unusable, but happily it has CV and gate inputs and works real well hooked up to a Korg SQ1.
Also includes a comprehensive printed manual, which is quite rare these days
Old 8th January 2019
  #39
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by ToneKontrol View Post
Yes.

All lame.

Includes all their hardware.
- Lame compared to what?

- Name a MIDI/CV controller on the market right now with the build quality and I/O options as the Keylab MK II 49/61 keyboards.

- You obviously haven't heard the Matrixbrute.



Ahhh you were being sarcastic!
Old 8th January 2019
  #40
Gear Nut
 
ianblack8's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by waltercruz View Post
Another example, comparing the patch 23 - Echo Piano.

First is Arturia, second is Roland Jupiter plugin.

You can compare these audios with the audio from synthmania too

http://www.synthmania.com/Roland%20J...HO%20PIANO.mp3

BTW, I recreated the factory patches from Synthmania scans.

Notice that in Arturia there's a little bump on the atack of each note.
Wow, thank you very much for the provided audio comparisons! Yea, that seems pretty bad, I'd be disappointed if I used original hardware before, seems like a big omission in both cases. Will try to submit ticket to them just in case, although probably a lot of people did over the years.
Old 8th January 2019
  #41
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianblack8 View Post
Wow, thank you very much for the provided audio comparisons! Yea, that seems pretty bad, I'd be disappointed if I used original hardware before, seems like a big omission in both cases. Will try to submit ticket to them just in case, although probably a lot of people did over the years.
Yeah, bad. I don't have access to a Jupiter-8, but I spent more than a week comparing Jup 8-V with Roland cloud plugin, listened a lot of youtube videos and the synthmania patches... My initial purpose was to recreate the synth of "I Want to Break Free" on Jup-8V, but it seems that it's not possible with the current status of the plugin.

After that, I went on recreating the factory patches from Synthmania scans. I got most of it from someone on kvr, improved some things comparing with Jupiter-8 cloud and added the missing parts. For some patches, it can get close, and for others, is very different.

With all of this said, I use some Arturia plugins. It seems that their modeling improved a lot since Jup-8 days (it's from 2007). Solina is very good, Farfisa seems good too (I use it 'through' Analog Lab), and their Wurli is quickly becoming my default. SEM V seems good, but I don't have means to compare it to the real thing.
Old 8th January 2019
  #42
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TRSC View Post
Cheaply made? Compared to what man? Please point me to a controller with the build quality and one that that has as many connection options at the price point Arturia offers for their newest Keylab MK II 49/61 controllers.

Let's go, cmon.
Where you going? Why would you assume I would want to tag along?
Old 8th January 2019
  #43
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by jammiedodger666 View Post
Where you going? Why would you assume I would want to tag along?
Completely lame response to avoid the questions...pathetic. You said the controllers are cheaply made and I simply pointed out the Keylab MK II series (proving you totally wrong) and you went running with your tail between your legs because you knew you'd put your foot in your mouth- which is probably something you've done countless times judging by your ignorant claim.

By the way, your name fits, since you dodge questions very well.
Old 8th January 2019
  #44
Quote:
Originally Posted by bulls hit View Post
I've been getting some big sounds out of the Microbrute. The onboard sequencer is a bit naff, borderline unusable, but happily it has CV and gate inputs and works real well hooked up to a Korg SQ1.
Also includes a comprehensive printed manual, which is quite rare these days
Hey come on the sequencer is kinda fun hehe. Its basically just the sequencer from the SH-101 with preset storage. Good for little bass or lead lines but not much else. Never tried it with my SQ1 though.. That usually stays hooked up to the modular but that might be kinda neat now that I think about it..
Old 8th January 2019
  #45
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TRSC View Post
Completely lame response to avoid the questions...pathetic. You said the controllers are cheaply made and I simply pointed out the Keylab MK II series (proving you totally wrong) and you went running with your tail between your legs because you knew you'd put your foot in your mouth- which is probably something you've done countless times judging by your ignorant claim.

By the way, your name fits, since you dodge questions very well.
Yikes! Somebody's panties are in one serious bunch! Are you crying out for intervention, or are you merely delusional?

Here's something for you to chew on. When someone doesn't immediately respond to your vulgar demands for attention, it doesn't mean you've won. Some of us have real jobs/careers and don't spend our time pouring through the Internets in search of things to whine about.

I noticed that someone had already answered your claim that Arturia makes the best controllers ever, and didn't feel the need to elaborate. But hey. You win! You're the man! You've got all the answers!

One thing... Don't project your shortcomings onto people you don't know.

Okay... Now that is sorted. I judge a keyboard controller on the action, durability and not much else. Bells and whistles don't interest me. With that being said. The best 88 note keyboard controller I've ever played was a Prophet T8. The same keyboard was used in the Synclavier II.

Since they are so rare and expensive these days, I settled on a Yamaha CP-33 for my 88 note controller, mainly because it works very well with Synthogy Ivory. I also have an old 76 note Yamaha SY99 that still plays better than 99 percent of the controllers out there today. I like having the extra wheel. And the after touch is quite good.

I realize you'll probably tell me that they aren't real controllers, but for play-ability, they leave your shoddily built Arturias in the dust.

Finally, I have an AKAI MPK249 that I really like, although it took a while to get the velocity response to where I wanted it. I think that also blows away the Arturia.

So stew a while. Get good and triggered and tell me how lame I am, but understand that if I don't get back to you right away, it has nothing to do with your "winning" arguments.
Old 8th January 2019
  #46
Lives for gear
 
junior's Avatar
 

This thread is funny, LOL.

I'm in the NOT lame category. I think the value of Analog Lab and Spark LE are really underrated. No-brainer purchases, IMO.

YMMV
Old 10th January 2019
  #47
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by bulls hit View Post
I've been getting some big sounds out of the Microbrute. The onboard sequencer is a bit naff, borderline unusable, but happily it has CV and gate inputs and works real well hooked up to a Korg SQ1.
Also includes a comprehensive printed manual, which is quite rare these days
I actually like the sequencer it’s based on a classic implementation from the SH-101. It’s designed to be super quick and simple to use.

Last edited by miscend; 10th January 2019 at 10:41 AM..
Old 10th January 2019
  #48
Lives for gear
It’s a little more complicated than “all Arturia plugins just suck”. Their newer stuff is good, their older stuff is now quite dated.

The older stuff like the Moog and the Jupiter etc etc were coded by the guy that went on to create Xils lab. The newer stuff was coded by a highly respected academic who has published highly regarded papers on DSP signal processing. He’s linked to some University. He’s the guy behind the Arturia preamps, the DX7, Pigment and the CMI V.

Their DX7 is regarded as the most authentic emulation on the market. Closer to the original than Dexed or FM8. The Arturia CMI V is also the best plugin of its kind. The Arturia modelled piano is actually pretty good, the only better modelled piano is Pianoteq but that’s been developed over many years.
Old 11th January 2019
  #49
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by miscend View Post
I actually like the sequencer it’s based on a classic implementation from the SH-101. It’s designed to be super quick and simple to use.
Yeah sorry I'm a newbie to HW synths so no idea of all the classic flavors and capabilities. The sequencer just seemed so primitive compared to what I can do with the SQ1.
Love the sounds I'm getting out of it though
Old 14th January 2019
  #50
Gear Head
Quote:
Originally Posted by jammiedodger666 View Post
Oh... I'm so terribly sorry that I offended you. They got paid (at least by me), for "the hard work" they've done. Why does Arturia get a free pass on any criticism of their products.

I've always found something better to handle a part and haven't upgraded since they started coming out really awful piano and organs. And I won't even go into the JP8 or the "CS80."

I would rather they spend more time tweaking the synths that I originally bought into their software for. I was wondering if anyone else felt that way. Obviously, Arturia has plenty of fans out there. I didn't realize that it was against the rules of decorum to say anything but glowing things about software developers.

Apologizes again. I don't mind the SEM though.

A thousand Pardons. But then again... you can always take your own advice.

If you don't like the things I write, don't bother to read them.
Agree wholeheartedly. They sound plastic to my ears. Always have. The new synclavier and fairlight are an improvement. Uhe etc are brilliant.
Very hard on processor but a good emulation normally is.
Old 14th January 2019
  #51
Gear Head
 

I'm going to hop in and defend the thread for a moment.

At one point in time, I worked for a software company. Not a tiny one, and not a huge one; we had an niche product that was excellent in a growing market. We were VC-funded; sales grew in the double-digits every year for many years. Not making "Internet Billionaires," but a good, solid company with real people working there for close to a decade.

Please bear with me - I promise this is relevant.

The company had got their start by buying the core program. It was a little raw, but the ideology behind was outstanding. The people who developed it, though, were the ones who sold it and ...

... you see where this is headed.

Even though our management were truly great people - really. Even though our lead developers were thoughtful and excellent. Even though the company was very successful and built to grow wisely and rationally.

Eventually, the lead developer lost the ability to 'hear' feedback. And fairly soon, the product was no longer competitive.

Sometimes, "crapping all over someone else's hard work" can have a useful purpose, even if the impulse isn't kind.
Old 15th January 2019
  #52
Lives for gear
 

So, arturia code is slowly being overhauled by guy #2 and everything new and old will sound pretty cool in 2023?
Old 4th February 2019
  #53
Lives for gear
Are you kidding, The Arturia DX7 is sweet sweet sweet. Using it now for a couple of stems I am real happy with it. I like the sonics over FM8 and you can import regular DX7 patches just like FM8. I don't get why people trashtalk Arturia products, I like them and they work well. You get a load of instruments to fit your needs.

U-he is still the KING of softsynths. I would say U-he and Arturia suite and you are 100% covered, if you cant produce music with either suite then you need a new job.
Old 4th February 2019
  #54
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianblack8 View Post
Can someone point at what exactly is the problem with Jup8's envelope and how it compares to the original? (never used one) I've seen this mentioned a few times in this thread, but couldn't find what is the problem in particular, so I would really appreciate if anyone explains the issue.
As for the subject, have to disagree. But I will point out that if you judge these plugins by included presets, you're doing them quite a disservice, some of those can be misleading and not very good, quite frankly. (it is most rewarding if you learn how these instruments work and come up with your own ideas for sounds, of course). Also, the real advantage of modeled instruments is tweakablity (especially on organs, pianos) which you obviously can't get from samples. You can do some esoteric stuff with "under-the-hood" parameters which will sound unique and haven't yet been on any record. (as opposed to popular sample libraries)
The question you need to ask yourself is can you produce musical output with the product, forget about it sounding exactly like instrument X Y X. The question is does it sound good, does it inspire and does it work. BTW: I Like Arturias Jup8 sounds.
Old 4th February 2019
  #55
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by jammiedodger666 View Post
When Arturia first came out I was really wowed by them. But they seem to fail miserably the moment you compare them to other company's offerings. I stopped using the Arturia mini moog soon after getting the IK Minimonsta, which is far superior. The modular pales in comparison with something like Admiral Quality's Poly-ana. I stopped using their Oberheim models in favor of the OP-X pro. The Roland JP8 is kinda unusable and the Prophet sucks compared to the Uhe pro one model. Nothing in their bundle is as fat as the Uhe Diva.

And the pianos and B3 emulations are just sad. I still use my old B4 (with jbridge) because it sounds so much better.

Has anyone had a better experience? I have been programming synths since the seventies and it seems the closer other manufactures get to a realistic analog sound, the further away Arturia moves.
I own OP-X and I use Both OP-X and Arturia Matrix 12. For example The Encounter Pad (Arturia) Sounds lovely. Learn to use your tools.
Old 4th February 2019
  #56
Gear Nut
 
ianblack8's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elsapo2001 View Post
The question you need to ask yourself is can you produce musical output with the product, forget about it sounding exactly like instrument X Y X. The question is does it sound good, does it inspire and does it work. BTW: I Like Arturias Jup8 sounds.
That's true! I like it, it became one of my favorites in the collection after upgrading. Was only curious what was the problem.
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