The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 All  This Thread  Reviews  Gear Database  Gear for sale     Latest  Trending
Plugins are making outboard gear unnecessary
Old 5th July 2019
  #241
Lives for gear
 
b0se's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flippy Floppy View Post
I use the Smooth and Warm the most. Depending if it’s a vocal or transient material. Fast mode, very rarely. Unless I really need to clamp something down. MIO, never. MIO reacts so differently than the other 3—I just never got into it. This compressor isn’t trying to copy anything. It’s just designed to sound great. Overall, unreal compressor!!

I never use the built in limiter. It sounds good, but I prefer waves’ L1/2. I like the auto gain when clamping down on transients.

Shout out to the Weiss DS1-MKIII. One of the best sounding compressors I’ve ever heard!!! Even compared to analog compressors.
Good to know, I never got on with MIO mode either! Cheers.

Yeah DS-1 is great :¬)


Quote:
Originally Posted by vitocorleone123 View Post
@ b0se

I suggest you also try Kush AR-1 and ValhallaDSP Delay as "hardware substitutes", and also Kush Novatron and Soundtheory Gullfoss as plugins NOT emulating anything specific.

In addition to what you listed, the above are some of the most impressive effects plugins I've ever heard/used.
Been demoing AR-1 this week, great plugin. Already own Valhalla Delay and Gullfoss - also great!
Old 6th July 2019
  #242
Gear Addict
https://images.app.goo.gl/vkKunYRb71PL3W1C7

Last edited by Lowend Bump; 6th July 2019 at 08:44 AM.. Reason: :(
Old 6th July 2019
  #243
Gear Head
 
Constant_K's Avatar
 

I've been using Gullfoss this week, picked up the PC version and I've been blown away.

A.I. is the future? No, it's already here; I mean everyone needs to try this thing or at the very least watch some youtube demos.

I'm really interested to see where plugins go next. I feel we're at a turning point now and pluginland is inching past tbh and not just in terms of price/performance but in actual performance.

Interesting times.
Old 7th July 2019
  #244
Gear Addict
Yeah fairly soon this AI will eliminate the need for skill. Everything can now get even more vanilla and lame.
Old 7th July 2019
  #245
Lives for gear
 
b0se's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lowend Bump View Post
Yeah fairly soon this AI will eliminate the need for skill. Everything can now get even more vanilla and lame.
Only for the repetitive/technical.

It will be a very long time before AI can compare with human creativity.
Old 7th July 2019
  #246
Gear Addict
The problem with all these comparisons is very few vintage pieces sound much like each other, 1176s, LA2As, 670s etc etc all vary enormously, as do individual channels on a single console until fairly recently, component manufacture in the past wasn't as consistent as it is today. A plugin 670 or LA-2A is as likely to be as different as another 670 or LA-2A.

The other thing that strikes me is who says a LA-2A or 1176 or 670 or 33609 are "the best" at that particular duty. The thing is developing hardware took a particular skill-set and a certain amount of time and resource to produce - if wouldn't surprise me if there have only ever been, say, 500 different hardware compressors ever developed in the last 70 years. With software, developing and tweaking your "circuits" is easy. Engineering and production were almost handed-down studio traditions:- "you always use that mic on that - or that compressor on that" - producers and engineers tend to stick to known formulas - these are not necessarily the best way of achieving something - nor are they the worse - they are often the safest - least risk approach. And that's another thing we have today - the ability to experiment without watching the clock or having a record label exec peering over our shoulder. Of course the ease of access to music production has also led to lots of bland "me too" muzak.

So if a plugin I use doesn't sound exactly like a LA-2A (assuming we can even define that) - Who cares as long as it sounds good?
Old 7th July 2019
  #247
Lives for gear
 
KevWind's Avatar
As I pondered the relationship of cheese to plugins and to the title I came to the striking realization that the title is bass ackwards

It should read " Plugins: making Hardware all the more necessary "
Old 7th July 2019
  #248
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lowend Bump View Post
Yeah fairly soon this AI will eliminate the need for skill. Everything can now get even more vanilla and lame.
U87ai?
Chris
Old 8th July 2019
  #249
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by b0se View Post

It will be a very long time before AI can compare with human creativity.
Have you heard what these kids are listening to these days?
I hear it every day with three teenage boys and let me tell ya there is a ton of homogenized stuff out there.
I know it’s not all doom and gloom but seems to me the good stuff is becoming more of a rarity.

Anyways back to your regularly scheduled
match H vs. P.
Old 8th July 2019
  #250
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by chessparov2.0 View Post
U87ai?
Chris
Lol
Old 8th July 2019
  #251
Gear Head
 
Constant_K's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lowend Bump View Post
Yeah fairly soon this AI will eliminate the need for skill. Everything can now get even more vanilla and lame.
Yeash. The Monkees, The Bay City Rollers, ****ing James Taylor: music made with the best analogue outboard. Thank God vanilla and lame was only invented with digital recording.

The point is if you can achieve something in 5 moves instead of 100 moves that is a good thing. Taste has absolutely nothing to do with it.

Bad music is still going to be made and bad taste will still be a thing as it ever was.

What people don't like is the democratization of previously esoteric technologies. The "Laptop Producer". If anything there is more great music around than ever before. If you can't find it then that's on you.
Old 8th July 2019
  #252
Lives for gear
 
s.d.finley's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Constant_K View Post
Yeash. The Monkees, The Bay City Rollers, ****ing James Taylor: music made with the best analogue outboard. Thank God vanilla and lame was only invented with digital recording.

The point is if you can achieve something in 5 moves instead of 100 moves that is a good thing. Taste has absolutely nothing to do with it.

Bad music is still going to be made and bad taste will still be a thing as it ever was.

What people don't like is the democratization of previously esoteric technologies. The "Laptop Producer". If anything there is more great music around than ever before. If you can't find it then that's on you.
I would also say there is much more horrible music available now as anybody with a laptop, some hacks and a crappy usb mic thinks they are an artist.
Old 8th July 2019
  #253
Lives for gear
 
biksonije's Avatar
 

More and more we're witnessing usage of SW vs. HW. For many applications plugins are getting there. No questions asked. But still, with all these smart algos and a.i. and all that crap human being is still number one. Of course it is nice living in these exciting times watching live take over.

Krešo
Old 9th July 2019
  #254
Lives for gear
I think the Bombfactory plugins are the pinnacle of digital plugins and destroy all hardware!!!
Old 11th July 2019
  #255
Lives for gear
 
RedBaaron's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flippy Floppy View Post
I think the Bombfactory plugins are the pinnacle of digital plugins and destroy all hardware!!!
Really? Which ones do you find to be the "bomb " (Muahaha hah....uh errmm...hah!)?
Old 11th July 2019
  #256
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedBaaron View Post
Really? Which ones do you find to be the "bomb " (Muahaha hah....uh errmm...hah!)?
Well, funny enough, as I joke about Bombfactory, I find myself using the SansAmp plugin all the time. It’s an amazing plugin!!
Old 11th July 2019
  #257
Gear Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by Constant_K View Post
Yeash. The Monkees, The Bay City Rollers, ****ing James Taylor: music made with the best analogue outboard. Thank God vanilla and lame was only invented with digital recording.

The point is if you can achieve something in 5 moves instead of 100 moves that is a good thing. Taste has absolutely nothing to do with it.

Bad music is still going to be made and bad taste will still be a thing as it ever was.

What people don't like is the democratization of previously esoteric technologies. The "Laptop Producer". If anything there is more great music around than ever before. If you can't find it then that's on you.
I don’t know what your talking about James Taylor rules!
Old 11th July 2019
  #258
Lives for gear
 

And The Monkees! Chris
Old 11th July 2019
  #259
Gear Guru
None of them hold a candle to the Banana Splits.....
Old 11th July 2019
  #260
For me the relationship to outboard and it's uses went from the classic channel to channel process to really now basically using it as sweetening and vibe on buses and or master bus usage. For instance running my drums and bass into 2 channels of analog compression into my Tonelux mixer and summing and back into my DAW adds a certain color and vibe I still can't quite get with plugs, and I'm also not spending 2-3 hours recalling mixes. Sometimes lifting a broad top and bottom end frequency through an analog bus eq gets me half way there before even touching any eq on individual tracks. And everyone once and a while I get curious, and I bypass the whole analog chain, and 9.9x out of 10 I'm back to running through the analog bus chain. In this equation It just does something that the plugs don't do as well "for me." But dare I eq an individual element with my analog eq again, it's been years since I've done that...my plugin eq's do just fine, often even better, usually because of automation. YMMV
Old 15th July 2019
  #261
Lives for gear
 
Lorenzop's Avatar
 

so can we start a list of all the music made recently 100% (at least up until mastering) ITB that won awards & the like?
Am curious what it sounds like..... basically anything on the billboards nowadays, yes?
Old 15th July 2019
  #262
Lives for gear
I can say for certain that includes anything Andrew Scheps mixed in the last few years. He's been 100% ITB for a few years now. And there are lots of other successful mix engineers doing the same. I think you would have a much harder time finding mixes done analog these days. There are some still doing hybrid.

Some here think analog sounds better. That's fine, they can think whatever they like. But the consumers have spoken, and whatever differences analog offers are not important to them. As for me, I've heard too many blind tests comparing analog to digital, and seen too many fail them, to give the analog arguments much credence.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorenzop View Post
so can we start a list of all the music made recently 100% (at least up until mastering) ITB that won awards & the like?
Am curious what it sounds like..... basically anything on the billboards nowadays, yes?
Old 15th July 2019
  #263
Gear Guru
 
drBill's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by drichard View Post
But the consumers have spoken, and whatever differences analog offers are not important to them.
When I mix, I'm mixing to please myself first (unless the client directs otherwise), the client second, and the consumer third. That makes an analog workflow extremely important to me - at least for the first two. I won't compromise my mixes because it's not important to consumers. Consumers were the same 30 years ago when everything was analog. It didn't stop people from buying top end analog instead of cheap analog. We do it for the art of it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by drichard View Post
As for me, I've heard too many blind tests comparing analog to digital, and seen too many fail them, to give the analog arguments much credence.
Without the gear and/or plugins underhand and in your own studio at your own disposal - being able to use whatever suits the sonics - I don't believe you can't fully embrace the difference between the two. When that happens, if you're like me, the difference is palpable, and quite obvious. I can choose any of my hundreds of plugins, or my hardware. There is no agenda to use one or the other - just to make the mix as good as possible. Plugins do get used here, but not usually comps or EQ's. There the hardware rules the roost.

Internet comparisons? I don't even bother. Too many variables and people with agenda's. If you really want to know if there's a difference, you've got to experience it first hand. Not via second hand opinion. Best of luck!
Old 15th July 2019
  #264
Lives for gear
If you feel better mixing analog, and you think your mixes sound better, it is definitely the right way for you. In addition to the sonic differences, some people simply prefer a more tactile experience, and work better that way.

But I tend to fall into the same camp as Andrew Scheps. He has offered his opinion several times. (Paraphrasing) he says, yes, there are differences in sound. But he found that in many cases, for whatever reason, both he and his clients preferred the ITB mixes - straight up. So for him, the choice was easy. Add in the convenience and the ability to recall mixes. and it's a no-brainer.

Just as a point of reference, I grew up in the analog world. My recording experience goes back nearly 50 years, with analog tape and gear. I didn't have a lot of high end gear, but what I had I knew intimately. But I also spent a number of years as a software engineer, so I'm very comfortable with a computer and in the digital world. I know that's not true of everyone.


Quote:
Originally Posted by drBill View Post
When I mix, I'm mixing to please myself first (unless the client directs otherwise), the client second, and the consumer third. That makes an analog workflow extremely important to me - at least for the first two. I won't compromise my mixes because it's not important to consumers. Consumers were the same 30 years ago when everything was analog. It didn't stop people from buying top end analog instead of cheap analog. We do it for the art of it.



Without the gear and/or plugins underhand and in your own studio at your own disposal - being able to use whatever suits the sonics - I don't believe you can't fully embrace the difference between the two. When that happens, if you're like me, the difference is palpable, and quite obvious. I can choose any of my hundreds of plugins, or my hardware. There is no agenda to use one or the other - just to make the mix as good as possible. Plugins do get used here, but not usually comps or EQ's. There the hardware rules the roost.

Internet comparisons? I don't even bother. Too many variables and people with agenda's. If you really want to know if there's a difference, you've got to experience it first hand. Not via second hand opinion. Best of luck!
Old 15th July 2019
  #265
Lives for gear
 

It's not the gear

It's the ear of the engineer
Old 15th July 2019
  #266
Lives for gear
 
Synth Buddha's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by A Tan View Post
It's not the gear

It's the ear of the engineer
Dear Wiseman, is there a remote possibility that for optimal results both may play a role?
Old 15th July 2019
  #267
Gear Guru
rigid thinking doesn't work in music. I don't make music for consumers I make it for me. Anyone I know who is making their music for consumers has lost their soul somewhere and their music reflects it. Pop music is littered with examples......
Old 15th July 2019
  #268
Lives for gear
 
Lorenzop's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by drBill View Post
When I mix, I'm mixing to please myself first (unless the client directs otherwise), the client second, and the consumer third. That makes an analog workflow extremely important to me - at least for the first two. I won't compromise my mixes because it's not important to consumers. Consumers were the same 30 years ago when everything was analog. It didn't stop people from buying top end analog instead of cheap analog. We do it for the art of it.



Without the gear and/or plugins underhand and in your own studio at your own disposal - being able to use whatever suits the sonics - I don't believe you can't fully embrace the difference between the two. When that happens, if you're like me, the difference is palpable, and quite obvious. I can choose any of my hundreds of plugins, or my hardware. There is no agenda to use one or the other - just to make the mix as good as possible. Plugins do get used here, but not usually comps or EQ's. There the hardware rules the roost.

Internet comparisons? I don't even bother. Too many variables and people with agenda's. If you really want to know if there's a difference, you've got to experience it first hand. Not via second hand opinion. Best of luck!
hey dr. bill....just curious how you handle recalls? Don´t your film/tv clients ask for revisions, alt takes etc. and what about all the cue changes that need to be re-arranged musically and then remixed?? Or do you mix analog YOUR projects and digital film/tv work?
Or are you oh so very old skool and have an actual pen and paper recall sheet?!
Old 15th July 2019
  #269
mp3
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ardis View Post
rigid thinking doesn't work in music. I don't make music for consumers I make it for me.
That itself is a rigid thought.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ardis View Post
Anyone I know who is making their music for consumers has lost their soul somewhere and their music reflects it. Pop music is littered with examples......
The body cannot subsist on lofty principles, so if you let those principles take food out of your mouth, they may well free your soul... I see nothing wrong with making music for consumption. I also don't derive the majority of my income from making or performing music, so grain of salt applies I suppose.

I'd love to support my family on music alone, and if I could I'd have no qualms with making some music for 'me' or for the sake of art or for whatever noble purpose, and some other music for 'them'.
Old 15th July 2019
  #270
Gear Guru
Quote:
Originally Posted by mp3 View Post
That itself is a rigid thought.



The body cannot subsist on lofty principles, so if you let those principles take food out of your mouth, they may well free your soul... I see nothing wrong with making music for consumption. I also don't derive the majority of my income from making or performing music, so grain of salt applies I suppose.

I'd love to support my family on music alone, and if I could I'd have no qualms with making some music for 'me' or for the sake of art or for whatever noble purpose, and some other music for 'them'.
Oh I do make my living selling products and entertainment, through art. I also take great pride in some of it (where the client has let it survive their legal department!).

I don't compare that with what I do for myself however, and should I find fans for that, hope I'm never making something derivative because something else was a "hit" that's all.... nothing lofty in it just sanity....
Topic:
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Forum Jump
Forum Jump