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More info about Audient iD22 vs iD44 DACs? Audio Interfaces
Old 1st December 2018
  #1
Gear Head
 

More info about Audient iD22 vs iD44 DACs?

I decided to get the iD44. But there are only a few comparisons between this one and the 22. How do the Cirrus Logic converters sound? I‘ve seen people giving the 44 back for the Burr Brown sound, whereas others are blown away by the better sound of it.

The info I could get so far about the 44 (vs the 22):
Less detail on the highs
But overall more dynamic and wider sounding
For ones astonishingly more clarity in overall detail
For others the 22 sounds more pleasing
Some don‘t notice a huge difference

I guess it depends on the monitors and the room if you hear huge differences. Brown is a renowned name. That concerns me, but the 44 has got much more dynamic range, not only on the headphone output, but also on the monitor DAC. I believe the iD22 has been released as a very expensive unit about $ 800, so it must be better than I expect for today‘s €370 price.

I want to get one of these next week, so I‘d be really thankful for comparisons!
Old 5th December 2018
  #2
Gear Nut
 

Evaluating AD/DA loops by means of Audio Diffmaker

The only id44 result shows worse numbers than the id22 in those particular tests. How that translates to what is heard can be debated.
Old 5th December 2018
  #3
Lives for gear
It's hard to know what your getting in terms of converters these days but Burr Brown was sold to Texas Instruments in the year 2000 or if it's been redesigned by newer engineers or what. There was a thread here months ago about the Tascam UH-7000 which was advertised as having Burr Brown converter chips but those who had bought theirs recently noticed they had different chips upon opening the unit. I get the feeling those old chips are not being made anymore and audio interface companies are switching to other choices. Unless you open the unit and see for yourself you can't be sure what chip it has as in the case with Tascam.
Old 5th December 2018
  #4
HSi
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HSi's Avatar
 

I remember looking into burr brown converters before and there were quite a few different price points.

It's not just down to the chips its down to implementation too. I had an id4, that wasn't even burr brown but it still sounded excellent and easily a good enough unit to power dt770's, 250ohms. Even the cheapest NI interface has Cirrus logic converters, and while the audio2dj, or whatever its called now, sounded good enough, it was hardly amazing.

There's more to the sound than just a dac.
Old 5th December 2018
  #5
Gear Head
 

Ofc, I know the implementation and the other components are important, too. I should have chosen another question. I have seen these numbers. Unfortunately I‘m not versed in understanding them. On the homepage I‘ve seen the drastically higher dynamic range. The comparison chart of Audient didn‘t look too promising, but they have tested a bunch of different chips and implementations. Audient claims this interface to be the best sounding and most clinical unit – and it was tested in various listening environments.

I still haven‘t got an interface, because I can‘t decide. Well, the guys on Korean Instagram are highly pleased by the 44. They are even disassembling them. I trust the Asians.

I got a bit into this correlation depth test. It is very interesting and will make me doing some research now.

– The decision was easy. I used the iD14 and I loved the sound. I see, that the Diffmaker results are much worse compared to the 44, so I can‘t do anything wrong and I‘ll get more dynamic range unlike the 22.
Old 7th December 2018
  #6
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Horizon7777 View Post
Ofc, I know the implementation and the other components are important, too. I should have chosen another question. I have seen these numbers. Unfortunately I‘m not versed in understanding them. On the homepage I‘ve seen the drastically higher dynamic range. The comparison chart of Audient didn‘t look too promising, but they have tested a bunch of different chips and implementations. Audient claims this interface to be the best sounding and most clinical unit – and it was tested in various listening environments.

I still haven‘t got an interface, because I can‘t decide. Well, the guys on Korean Instagram are highly pleased by the 44. They are even disassembling them. I trust the Asians.

I got a bit into this correlation depth test. It is very interesting and will make me doing some research now.

– The decision was easy. I used the iD14 and I loved the sound. I see, that the Diffmaker results are much worse compared to the 44, so I can‘t do anything wrong and I‘ll get more dynamic range unlike the 22.
The id44 does have better numbers on the comparison chart in some areas. The higher dynamic range is in the digital to analog conversion, rather than the analog to digital conversion.

What's interesting is that the loopback tests still show a cleaner signal in the id22...so despite the better raw numbers, there is "something" in the id44 that is introducing noise or degradation that is being perceived by that test as worse than the id22. I've seen several people say they preferred the id22 over the id44, but I don't think I've seen the reverse. All said, I'm sure the id44 is still a great interface, it's just interesting the id22 seems to have some "magic" over it despite what the numbers on a chart show.
Old 7th December 2018
  #7
Lives for gear
 
stinkyfingers's Avatar
 

The converter loop back test / thread measures frequency/phase response, and that’s about it.
High and low pass filters cause most (if not all) the measured difference.
Old 7th December 2018
  #8
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by stinkyfingers View Post
High and low pass filters cause most (if not all) the measured difference.
This sounds logical. But since both the 22 and the 44 are a big upgrade, I don‘t care too much about the last percent of better sound. I know how the 14 sounds. I‘ve owned it. I enjoyed it a lot. Should the 44 not please me as much as the characteristics of the Burr Brown converters, I can still give it back and get the 22. But the vast increasement of the DA dynamic range is a huge deal.

What I read everywhere however, the headphone output of the 44 is the best sounding one. My HPH-MT8s will be happy. Still waiting for my payout to get this interface. I want to share my thoughts finally.
Old 9th January 2019
  #9
Here for the gear
 
Jack of Hearts's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Horizon7777 View Post
This sounds logical. But since both the 22 and the 44 are a big upgrade, I don‘t care too much about the last percent of better sound. I know how the 14 sounds. I‘ve owned it. I enjoyed it a lot. Should the 44 not please me as much as the characteristics of the Burr Brown converters, I can still give it back and get the 22. But the vast increasement of the DA dynamic range is a huge deal.

What I read everywhere however, the headphone output of the 44 is the best sounding one. My HPH-MT8s will be happy. Still waiting for my payout to get this interface. I want to share my thoughts finally.


How are you liking the 44? I just ordered a 22 to find out there is the 44! Trying to decide whether I should return the 22 or wait and get the ASP880. I like the 44 setup better than the 22, but how are the converters (not burr brown)?
Old 16th January 2019
  #10
Gear Addict
 
Farm sounds's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Horizon7777 View Post
This sounds logical. But since both the 22 and the 44 are a big upgrade, I don‘t care too much about the last percent of better sound. I know how the 14 sounds. I‘ve owned it. I enjoyed it a lot. Should the 44 not please me as much as the characteristics of the Burr Brown converters, I can still give it back and get the 22. But the vast increasement of the DA dynamic range is a huge deal.

What I read everywhere however, the headphone output of the 44 is the best sounding one. My HPH-MT8s will be happy. Still waiting for my payout to get this interface. I want to share my thoughts finally.

Bump...Yes, please give us a update!
Old 25th January 2019
  #11
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Farm sounds View Post
Bump...Yes, please give us a update!
I still wasn‘t able to buy it due to personal problems, unfortunately. In addition to that my vehicle had to get broken. It was a quite expensive and unfafourable situation.

I finally hope February 4th – 8th is the time. I haven‘t forgotten to update you. Please be patient.
Old 25th January 2019
  #12
Gear Guru
 
monkeyxx's Avatar
I would be inclined to purchase based on I/O needs. I also recently saw the iD22 for $360 on ebay that's a pretty killer deal for that interface. So maybe price is a factor also.

I've heard the iD22 but I haven't heard the iD44, but it's on my radar. It would make a great mobile rig I think.
Old 25th January 2019
  #13
Gear Addict
 
Farm sounds's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Horizon7777 View Post
I still wasn‘t able to buy it due to personal problems, unfortunately. In addition to that my vehicle had to get broken. It was a quite expensive and unfafourable situation.

I finally hope February 4th – 8th is the time. I haven‘t forgotten to update you. Please be patient.
No Problem! Ah yes vehicles have a way of putting a damper on new gear purchases for sure...always right on time!

I have decided on getting a ID22 myself due to it’s ability to bypass the pre’s with outboard pre’s if i want and the insert points etc...also want the burr brown’s as well....audient said the id14 has burrs too but the pre’s cant be bypassed in that one so ill need the 22....

Now i just need to find a used one within my crappy budget:(
Old 28th January 2019
  #14
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Farm sounds View Post
I have decided on getting a ID22 myself due to it’s ability to bypass the pre’s with outboard pre’s if i want and the insert points etc...also want the burr brown’s as well....audient said the id14 has burrs too but the pre’s cant be bypassed in that one so ill need the 22....

Now i just need to find a used one within my crappy budget:(
I had to fight with budget myself, too.

Don‘t get the 14. It is considered entry level. The 22 is a huge step up from what I‘ve read everywhere. I owned the 14 and I was pretty impressed at the beginning, but it gets a little boring after time.

There‘s no problem in getting a used one! It is actually the cheaper solution. Maybe you can find one with remaining warranty. I wished I had got a used one as well, because I‘d have saved almost € 80. Or do a mini job for one month and you‘ll be able to buy the 44.

But the 22 is a solid choice I think!

By the way I have found a very interesting review about the iD44. I was looking for such a post like crazy. This has totally convinced me: Audient iD 44

I just can‘t wait until the two weeks.
Old 28th January 2019
  #15
Gear Addict
 
Farm sounds's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Horizon7777 View Post
I had to fight with budget myself, too.

Don‘t get the 14. It is considered entry level. The 22 is a huge step up from what I‘ve read everywhere. I owned the 14 and I was pretty impressed at the beginning, but it gets a little boring after time.

There‘s no problem in getting a used one! It is actually the cheaper solution. Maybe you can find one with remaining warranty. I wished I had got a used one as well, because I‘d have saved almost € 80. Or do a mini job for one month and you‘ll be able to buy the 44.

But the 22 is a solid choice I think!

By the way I have found a very interesting review about the iD44. I was looking for such a post like crazy. This has totally convinced me: Audient iD 44

I just can‘t wait until the two weeks.
Update Well last night i had a answer to prayer on Ebay....a motivated seller gave me a unbelievable deal on a basically brand new id22 that was purchased for a studio that was never finished...i’m excited to try it out! I have outboard preamps and a SSL clone compressor so the id22 insert points were a huge bonus for me..
Old 28th January 2019
  #16
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Farm sounds View Post
Update Well last night i had a answer to prayer on Ebay....a motivated seller gave me a unbelievable deal on a basically brand new id22 that was purchased for a studio that was never finished...i’m excited to try it out! I have outboard preamps and a SSL clone compressor so the id22 insert points were a huge bonus for me..
Congratulations! I‘m sure you will be very impressed. The 14 was already amazing. Let us know what you think of it when you receive it.
Old 28th January 2019
  #17
Gear Addict
 
Farm sounds's Avatar
 

Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by Horizon7777 View Post
Congratulations! I‘m sure you will be very impressed. The 14 was already amazing. Let us know what you think of it when you receive it.
I will...i am curious how the onboard Preamps compare to my chandler germanium pre

From what i read they are clean so that is gonna work for me because most of my outnoard is colorful

Always good to have options..
Old 7th February 2019
  #18
Gear Head
 

I am listening to the iD44. I will tell you my experience later. It sounds totally different than the 14, but much much better.
Old 7th February 2019
  #19
Gear Head
 

Okay…

I will compare it with the iD14, as I owned it.

The first thing that I immediately notice, is, that the iD44 sound different. The whole character is different from the Burr Brown converters in the iD14. The new unit contains Cirrus Logic converters. It sounds 10–20 % warmer, which is much more pleasuring to listen to. But this warmth may come from the dynamic representing of each single tone coming out from my Yamaha HS8. I feel the sound like it is much more realistic being in my room. The reverb sounds 50 % better now, because the sound stage is so much better. It is just perfect and 100 % alive. The iD14 did a rather disappointing job, when I listen to the new one now.

Also, the higher dynamic range causes to make me able to hear all the tracks easily. You cannot mishear anything anymore. The level of detail is like a 50 % boost, too. It totally pro. I‘ve read how people have mentioned the higher interfaces than iD14 are not much better and the DACs very hard to distinguish. But this is bull****. Once you get used to the new interface, you will never look back. I have listened to some older tracks and also to albums from a home composer who doesn‘t own studio monitors. I have noticed embarrassing stuff going on: Weird, way too quiet drums, loud hiss (which iD14 represented so quiet, that it didn‘t seem to be a mistake), a tremendous lack of reverb. It‘s super revealing – but good productions sound like ****ing good productions.

Now the headphones: Everything is the same case here. The reverb is finally realistic and you can notice each tracks with ease.

It is a completely different sound, so the experience is different. To be honest, the character is hard to describe. Dynamic is the best word.

I have thought about the people saying they prefer the iD22 for the Burr Brown character, but Cirrus Logic is the perfect combination of warmth, detail, clarity, and DYNAMIC. Best buy of my life. I am stunned by how far you can push the Yamaha HS8 and HPH-MT8. I think you shouldn‘t look to much at the numbers of Audio Diffmaker. I see, that the Apogee Symphony MK Ⅰ has got higher numbers, but the newer model is still one of the best units. I mean, iD44 scores much better than the iD14 and thats enough.

It‘s console quality sound.

I notice, that the iD14 is way too cold for my taste (boring).

I find the bass to be a smart thing. Unlike the iD14, the 44 reveals weak mid-bass. Now I notice that a lot of songs need tweaks here and there, because in the early 2000s you weren‘t able to hear the subtle details as well as today with this monster. It‘s nothing but revealing after doing further listening tests. I concentrated on how real it will be reproduced and not on how nice. The realism is superior, when the production is right.

I would never want to own the iD14 device again, because it has got the problem with piercing the treble in my ears to pain, in both the mid-bass (that‘s why the bass punched so „nice“ (too much)) and especially the high-end. It‘s finally gone and not fatiguing anymore.
Old 6th March 2019
  #20
Gear Nut
 
SPiTFiREgr's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Horizon7777 View Post
Okay…

I will compare it with the iD14, as I owned it.

The first thing that I immediately notice, is, that the iD44 sound different. The whole character is different from the Burr Brown converters in the iD14. The new unit contains Cirrus Logic converters. It sounds 10–20 % warmer, which is much more pleasuring to listen to. But this warmth may come from the dynamic representing of each single tone coming out from my Yamaha HS8. I feel the sound like it is much more realistic being in my room. The reverb sounds 50 % better now, because the sound stage is so much better. It is just perfect and 100 % alive. The iD14 did a rather disappointing job, when I listen to the new one now.

Also, the higher dynamic range causes to make me able to hear all the tracks easily. You cannot mishear anything anymore. The level of detail is like a 50 % boost, too. It totally pro. I‘ve read how people have mentioned the higher interfaces than iD14 are not much better and the DACs very hard to distinguish. But this is bull****. Once you get used to the new interface, you will never look back. I have listened to some older tracks and also to albums from a home composer who doesn‘t own studio monitors. I have noticed embarrassing stuff going on: Weird, way too quiet drums, loud hiss (which iD14 represented so quiet, that it didn‘t seem to be a mistake), a tremendous lack of reverb. It‘s super revealing – but good productions sound like ****ing good productions.

Now the headphones: Everything is the same case here. The reverb is finally realistic and you can notice each tracks with ease.

It is a completely different sound, so the experience is different. To be honest, the character is hard to describe. Dynamic is the best word.

I have thought about the people saying they prefer the iD22 for the Burr Brown character, but Cirrus Logic is the perfect combination of warmth, detail, clarity, and DYNAMIC. Best buy of my life. I am stunned by how far you can push the Yamaha HS8 and HPH-MT8. I think you shouldn‘t look to much at the numbers of Audio Diffmaker. I see, that the Apogee Symphony MK Ⅰ has got higher numbers, but the newer model is still one of the best units. I mean, iD44 scores much better than the iD14 and thats enough.

It‘s console quality sound.

I notice, that the iD14 is way too cold for my taste (boring).

I find the bass to be a smart thing. Unlike the iD14, the 44 reveals weak mid-bass. Now I notice that a lot of songs need tweaks here and there, because in the early 2000s you weren‘t able to hear the subtle details as well as today with this monster. It‘s nothing but revealing after doing further listening tests. I concentrated on how real it will be reproduced and not on how nice. The realism is superior, when the production is right.

I would never want to own the iD14 device again, because it has got the problem with piercing the treble in my ears to pain, in both the mid-bass (that‘s why the bass punched so „nice“ (too much)) and especially the high-end. It‘s finally gone and not fatiguing anymore.
This post is why audio companies will continue to milk our dollars for at least 100 more years

"It sounds 10–20 % warmer" instant classic
Old 7th March 2019
  #21
Gear Guru
I think getting hung up on chips is misleading. They are only part of the picture and the overall sound of an interface has more to do with how the components are integrated......I have a MixPre and could care less about the actual chip it uses. Unless you are an EE talking about chips is really focusing in on a very small part of the puzzle.....
Old 10th March 2019
  #22
Gear Head
 

Yes, sorry. I‘m not an expert by any means. I just explained my impression with noob knowledge. I realise that the chip is only a small part and the circuit implementation etc. is a huge part, too. So, let‘s say that the entire architecture is better to my ears than the architecture of the iD14. Hmm, it really sounds more fluid to me, what I mean by „warmer“. iD14 was really cold compared to now. I don‘t know what it is, but I really like it. Maybe I get fooled by the better sound-staging or dynamics, which let the instruments let sound fuller and the detail is more present etc.

Please don‘t take is as a professional review. I‘m just the bedroom studio guy.
Old 11th March 2019
  #23
Gear Guru
Quote:
Originally Posted by Horizon7777 View Post
Yes, sorry. I‘m not an expert by any means. I just explained my impression with noob knowledge. I realise that the chip is only a small part and the circuit implementation etc. is a huge part, too. So, let‘s say that the entire architecture is better to my ears than the architecture of the iD14. Hmm, it really sounds more fluid to me, what I mean by „warmer“. iD14 was really cold compared to now. I don‘t know what it is, but I really like it. Maybe I get fooled by the better sound-staging or dynamics, which let the instruments let sound fuller and the detail is more present etc.

Please don‘t take is as a professional review. I‘m just the bedroom studio guy.
Me too and no apologies needed! Discussions on here get a bit convoluted and I do feel plugins have given "the new generation", serious ADD about gear. I've seen a bunch of threads where people have really good mics and pres chasing a sound and wanting to buy something else. I think some fall easily into the trap of slapping another emulation on something to correct it and start looking at gear the same way.

Conversion is tough because everything goes thru it. However it is a small piece of the soundscape in relation to what actually impacts sound. Converters have gotten so much better.

Obviously you want to find something that you can set and forget. My advice to anyone would be that a lot of great music was produced with gear that is pretty primitive by today's standards. I would really concentrate on learning what you have. When you feel a frustration that you're not getting there it will be based on a very real understanding of whats lacking.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #24
Gear Head
Great discussion. Honestly, either way, I think that the recording quality will be MORE than good enough (iD22 user here).

I was really on the fence about upgrading to the iD44, but it comes down to my needing a few more mic pres, so it looks like I'm going to give the Audient iD44 a try afterall!

But first I need to sell my iD22! So if anyone is interested in an absolutely pristine Audient iD22, check it out on eBay, item # 143216638621 .
Old 4 weeks ago
  #25
Gear Guru
FWIW some of the best converters on the planet use a variety of chips. I wouldn't get too hung up on one manufacturer. All about design.......
Old 4 weeks ago
  #26
Lives for gear
 
bowzin's Avatar
My good friend bought an ID22 off me, and then sold it to his brother and bought himself an ID44. His main reason to get the ID44 was the extra preamp inputs, and the extra ADAT in/out (2 sets of adat in/out vs. 1 set of in/out on the ID22). He also liked having more than one headphone output, he now has one headphone output for himself and another headphone output hooked up to a 4-way headphone amp for other musicians.

I've heard his ID44, but not in my own space back-to-back with the ID22. I certainly cannot tell any difference. He says having them in his own space back to back, he says they're very, very similar. He slightly preferred the ID44, he liked the DA a tiny bit better but said it was pretty much insignificant. Neither of us can really tell a difference on the AD side (that's harder for me to judge, and takes longer). To us, they are more similar than not, especially having the same preamps. I would base any decisions on simply track count and features. In that area, the ID44 pretty much rocks in my opinion. My friend has a helluva functional setup now. When I go to his place, I bring 8 preamps and an 8 channel converter and plug in to his ID44 via ADAT. That gives us 12 preamps/AD inputs. He is only one Audient ASP800 or something away from making it 20 inputs, which would be heaven.

More and more I am lusting after bigger track counts so I can keep more key hardware permanently installed in the patchbay. Currently I have to choose whether I'm "tracking" and my converters are tied up with preamps, or whether I'm "mixing" and the converters are tied into the patchbay. I have a Babyface Pro now and I would kill for one more set of ADAT in/out like the ID44.
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