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Any other reverb plugin sound like UAD Ocean Way for drums?
Old 4th October 2018
  #1
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Any other reverb plugin sound like UAD Ocean Way for drums?

I am really impressed with the drum demos of the Ocean Way reverb plugin. I would buy it for $200 if I didn't have to buy one of their $700 boxes to run it. Has anyone found drums room that work as well in other reverbs ? I have some good one in Slate verbsuite and maybe could match the Ocean Way sounds if I try more sounds.

The unique thing for me is the the Ocean Way reverb really sounds like drum room mics,not just a reverb stuck on dry drums.
Old 5th October 2018
  #2
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Just to clarify, you don't necessarily have to buy a "$700 box." PCIe accelerators can be purchased. I saw an Octo on Ebay for $700. A quad for $400.

I haven't heard anything very close to UAD ocean way. I love the mic positions, just wish there was more mics to choose from. Now I'm sure several will suggest alternatives. The issue is usually how close is close enough.
Old 5th October 2018
  #3
There’s no alternatives. Not a single reverb with room algo can sound like Ocean Way plugin.

I just captured as many IR as I like. Made “preset” IR kind of. Because overall it just room mics. And it will always sound like room mic no matter how har you would tweak it.

So after sellind UAD, I’m happy to use my Ocean Way IR with Reverberate IR loader (If I need this sound)
Old 5th October 2018
  #4
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I've been looking for this as well. I've demoed a lot of VSTs in this search, and I've really settled down to two VSTs that I'm trying to decide between:

- Parallax-Audio Virtual Sound Stage 2
- Eventide TVerb

Each have their strengths and weaknesses. VSS2 has very good directional control; placing individual tracks in the stereo field. It also has more selections in terms of microphones. It can sound a bit over the top, although that is controllable with the "Early Reflections" slider. TVerb generally sounds more natural, but does not do anything as far as room placement. Also, the reverb sounds for TVerb sound artificial at longer delays (bigger rooms). VSS2, doesn't really do reverb, it is just for the early reflections of the rooms. My only comment regarding that is I'd like a few more rooms with maybe a little longer early reflections.

That's my uninformed subjective assessment. I'd love to hear other more informed opinions regarding VSS2 and/or TVerb, as well as any other near alternatives.
Old 5th October 2018
  #5
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I agree that VSS is similar in concept, and has a very nice workflow to it. I'd almost say that it has some advantages over OW in the way you can position instruments around the stage as well as lower or raise the height of mics. It is a fun and flexible plugin to use. Highly underrated.

It can be difficult to tweak, you have to listen carefully for comb filtering and the odd phase shift. Several times, I have had to just turn it off because I couldn't get it to enhance certain instruments. It, to me is also dependent on the type of music. I can use OW on a drum buss, but I would never try that with VSS.
Old 5th October 2018
  #6
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I agree that VSS is similar in concept, and has a very nice workflow to it. I'd almost say that it has some advantages over OW in the way you can position instruments around the stage as well as lower or raise the height of mics. It is a fun and flexible plugin to use. Highly underrated.

It can be difficult to tweak, you have to listen carefully for comb filtering and the odd phase shift. Several times, I have had to just turn it off because I couldn't get it to enhance certain instruments. It, to me is also dependent on the type of music. I can use OW on a drum buss, but I would never try that with VSS.
Old 6th October 2018
  #7
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Thanks,I will have to try out the virtual sound stage. I havent been able to find a cheap enough UAD box used yet to justify the Ocean Way plugin.
Old 6th October 2018
  #8
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Before buying Ocean Way, I tried everything I could get my hands on. None did that "room mic" thing anywhere near as well. IMO, everything else is just "reverb".
Old 6th October 2018
  #9
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I takes up quite a bit of DSP. I have a quad and one time I tried to use 4 instances and it looked like I had some room, but it started acting up when I bounced it. I had to replace some busses quickly with Vahalla LOL
Old 6th October 2018
  #10
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@ smoke That's really good - important - feedback. I've been reluctant to go down the UAD path for a number of reasons. And one of them was just that aspect. With typical plugins, and a high capability computer, I never really even need to think about whether I can do "n" instances of the plugin. If Ocean Way is as good as everybody says, I would want to run several instances of it. But my computer, while very capable, is a laptop with only two USB ports currently used for RME Babyface Pro and an SSD. So my options with USB are limited. Not to mention I see the UAD HW as effectively a HW Dongle with all the downsides that brings (e.g., iLok).

I caveat my next paragraph by making it clear that I have never listened to or demoed Ocean Way Studios, other than listening to the online before/after MP3s. And realizing, just sitting there playing with the controls and hearing the changes of any plugin can make a huge difference... And with that caveat said...

@ joeq I'm curious if you've given TVerb a trial? Based on your post, I fiddled around for about 15 minutes using the Ocean Way dry drums example MP3 and TVerb and was able to come up with a reasonable and very musical approximation of the Ocean Way Wet Drums examples. Was it exact? No. But it was close, even though the base rooms are different rooms. And it was close enough that I think most folks would struggle in a blind comparison to identify the TVerb version versus the Ocean Way version. FWIW, I DON'T think that would be a good test for VSS2, as there is limited tweakability of the rooms themselves. In VSS2, you have several rooms to choose from, but other than mic choice, mic position, and source position, you don't have much control of the room sound itself. VSS2's strengths are in moving your individual sources around in the given spaces, not control of the sound of those spaces.

FWIW, I'm torn between VSS2 and TVerb. Maybe I need both! Is that a tell-tale sign of a severe case of GAS?

Honestly, though, TVerb is I think pretty good at adding musical room sounds. It's very natural sounding, although larger delay times are not good in TVerb and better left to a dedicated reverb. VSS2 is very powerful at placement of multiple sources at various places/distances in a room. It can be a little bit tougher to get natural room sounds versus TVerb, but it can be done. VSS2 could use better (i.e, some!) controls of the room (IR length, equalization), as well as a greater variety of rooms with a greater variety of early reflections (longer delays, density of reflections, etc). And FWIW, VSS2 does not do reverb; only early reflections. So you have to follow VSS2 with a dedicated reverb.
Old 6th October 2018
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tleetabor View Post
[MENTION=36290]
@ joeq I'm curious if you've given TVerb a trial?
No, I missed that one. I tried tons of stuff, but not that.

Quote:
Based on your post, I fiddled around for about 15 minutes using the Ocean Way dry drums example MP3 and TVerb and was able to come up with a reasonable and very musical approximation of the Ocean Way Wet Drums examples. Was it exact? No. But it was close, even though the base rooms are different rooms. And it was close enough that I think most folks would struggle in a blind comparison to identify the TVerb version versus the Ocean Way version.
I was not so much impressed in the 'mic positioning' aspect of the program, mostly it's about the way it handles the 'ballistics' of the room sound. There is a certain way the drums "bloom" in Ocean Way that reminds me of something I notice as a drummer in certain spaces. In the past, I was almost never able to pull off adding much small room on the kick drum - it usually sounded fake and 'added on' to me. Or it muddied up the mix. With OW, I feel like I am getting away with murder.

I looked up the Eventide page and I will give the TVerb demo a shot when I get a chance, but I have to say I am very satisfied with OW. It really filled a missing link for me.
Old 6th October 2018
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joeq View Post
No, I missed that one. I tried tons of stuff, but not that.



I was not so much impressed in the 'mic positioning' aspect of the program, mostly it's about the way it handles the 'ballistics' of the room sound. There is a certain way the drums "bloom" in Ocean Way that reminds me of something I notice as a drummer in certain spaces. In the past, I was almost never able to pull off adding much small room on the kick drum - it usually sounded fake and 'added on' to me. Or it muddied up the mix. With OW, I feel like I am getting away with murder.

I looked up the Eventide page and I will give the TVerb demo a shot when I get a chance, but I have to say I am very satisfied with OW. It really filled a missing link for me.
That is what I noticed too in the demos. It sounded like you could add a close room sound that didn't sound like reverb added to drums,and also get the nice big room sound. My drum room is very dead and this might be perfect for it.
I will check out Tverb as well because buying the UAD box is a lot of extra expense.
Old 6th October 2018
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joeq View Post
I looked up the Eventide page and I will give the TVerb demo a shot when I get a chance, but I have to say I am very satisfied with OW. It really filled a missing link for me.
My little experience with TVerb (for room sound) and VSS2 (for room sound with source placement) have convinced me that the missing link you mentioned is real and "needs" to be filled. Certainly, my mixes with TVerb or VSS2 really "come alive" compared to the originals. To the point that I know I need something like this.

But, I would very much love to hear your opinion of OW vs TVerb comparison. Without UAD HW, I am in the unfortunate position that I can't even demo OW other than the before/after MP3s. And even that is limited due to the compression artifacts in MP3s.

In any case, finding acceptable alternatives that don't require UAD is my first preference as my UAD HW options are somewhat limited and expensive. Further, I'm hesitant to start down that path for reasons stated earlier in the thread - at least without compelling reasons to go there.

Still on the fence, and open minded... but right now leaning toward both VSS2 and TVerb, when Eventide has a good sale...
Old 6th October 2018
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tleetabor View Post
In any case, finding acceptable alternatives that don't require UAD is my first preference as my UAD HW options are somewhat limited and expensive. Further, I'm hesitant to start down that path for reasons stated earlier in the thread - at least without compelling reasons to go there.
Even before I got Ocean Way, I can say I was quite satisfied being in the UAD "ecosystem". I needed a new interface anyway, and when I used the EMT plate reverb plug-in that came with the Apollo at another studio, I said: "it comes with this? Sign me up."

If you are already set for your i/o and need to buy into it just as an accelerator, that may be a different story.

On the plus side, IMO UAD has a number of "clear winners". The Neve unison stuff, their Pultec, the aforementioned plate reverb all beat the native alternatives in my book. Pricey for sure, and admittedly kind of stingy on instances, but great sounding stuff. Maybe not the most frugal approach, but in the end, it was almost an emotional decision for me.

I don't know how "compelling" you may find it, but maybe you can book an hour or two at a studio that has UAD stuff and try it out for yourself.
Old 7th October 2018
  #15
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I may look into that. Or even the local Music "Super Store" might have a setup I could play with. Maybe a Sunday "pop-in" is in the cards...
Old 7th October 2018
  #16
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i actually did not invest in the full VSS, I got the cheap one which offers a limited set of stages. I would start there if you were interested. and Practice see how you get on.
Old 7th October 2018
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvgenyStudio View Post
There’s no alternatives. Not a single reverb with room algo can sound like Ocean Way plugin.

I just captured as many IR as I like. Made “preset” IR kind of. Because overall it just room mics. And it will always sound like room mic no matter how har you would tweak it.

So after sellind UAD, I’m happy to use my Ocean Way IR with Reverberate IR loader (If I need this sound)
Did you make IR's of close and far room mics? Do they sound the same as using the plugin? I love the far rooms but am really impressed with how real the closer mics sound.
Old 11th January 2019
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvgenyStudio View Post
There’s no alternatives. Not a single reverb with room algo can sound like Ocean Way plugin.

I just captured as many IR as I like. Made “preset” IR kind of. Because overall it just room mics. And it will always sound like room mic no matter how har you would tweak it.

So after sellind UAD, I’m happy to use my Ocean Way IR with Reverberate IR loader (If I need this sound)
Can I get some of your UAD ocean way IR? please

[mod delete]

Last edited by Bender412; 17th January 2019 at 01:08 AM.. Reason: Please use the signature function for website promo. Thanks.
Old 20th March 2019
  #19
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Number one on my wishlist for native plugins is one that does what this does. With all of the thousand plugins coming out each year I’m surprised no one has done this yet, especially given how highly coveted this one is. Someone please get on this!

In fact I think it’s number one, two, three, four and five on my wishlist.
Old 5th June 2019
  #20
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With so many reverb plugins coming out all of the time I'm still shocked that there isn't real competition in the native world for Ocean Way. Why is it that I can now get a ton of different EMT 140 emulations or spring emulations, yet the sound of a speaker in a great room being recorded by a microphone can only be found with UAD? I know Eventide's Tverb kind of does a similar thing (and is on sale right now), but I don't think it sounds nearly as good.

Please please please plugin developers of the world consider this for your next project!
Old 16th July 2019
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dublave View Post
With so many reverb plugins coming out all of the time I'm still shocked that there isn't real competition in the native world for Ocean Way. Why is it that I can now get a ton of different EMT 140 emulations or spring emulations, yet the sound of a speaker in a great room being recorded by a microphone can only be found with UAD?
My wife's family business is a major recording facility in London and we had a meeting with UAD Europe about potentially working on a project together. I mentioned doing something like OW in our biggest room (famous for its drum sounds) and, long story short, the amount of work involved is preclusive. It was a work of passion and obsession by the guy who owned OW at the time; took a very long time, etc. So, the takeaway was that even UA wouldn't be able to do it again. That said, if it was their biggest seller perhaps the grind would be justifiable...

Meanwhile, I've just discovered Upmix and it seems to do a great job at diffusion (and therefore placement), which most of the time is what I'm looking for in a realistic room.

Last edited by noisyneil; 16th July 2019 at 02:17 PM..
Old 16th July 2019
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noisyneil View Post
My wife's family business is a major recording facility in London and we had a meeting with UAD Europe about potentially working on a project together. I mentioned doing something like OW in our biggest room (famous for its drum sounds) and, long story short, the amount of work involved is preclusive. It was a work of passion and obsession by the guy who owned OW at the time; took a very long time, etc. So, the takeaway was that even UA wouldn't be able to do it again. That said, if it was their biggest seller perhaps the grind would be justifiable...

Meanwhile, I've just discovered Upmix and it seems to do a great job at diffusion (and therefore placement), which most of the time is what I'm looking for in a realistic room.
Thanks for the insight! I'll have to look into the Upmix.
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