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Madi vs Dante in studio aplication Digital Converters
Old 4 days ago
  #1
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Thread Starter
Madi vs Dante in studio aplication

After getting advices from the forums I finally choose to purchase the SPL Madison 16X16 ADA converter with this RME MADI card.

From what I understand MADI will foster I/O with very low latency and with the Madison good tone I will be good. I am buying it because Apogee Symphony MKII doesn't support good connectivity with PC on windows. However, they said that DANTE is coming.

Could someone explain what is the difference between MADI and DANTE? As Apogee is implementaing DANTE can we conclude that DANTE is better than MADI? For a 16 to 32 channel studio on PC/Window?

Thank you all,

Dan
Old 3 days ago
  #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanTheMan06 View Post
... However, they said that DANTE is coming.

Could someone explain what is the difference between MADI and DANTE? As Apogee is implementaing DANTE can we conclude that DANTE is better than MADI? For a 16 to 32 channel studio on PC/Window?
...
I'm surprised that I'm the first one here. Okay, here we go:

MADI is a point-to-point, unidirectional protocol that carries a clock and time 'buckets' that contain the channel information all on one coax or fiber optic link. MADI has been done by some vendors on twisted pair cable; I just repaired a cable for a Soundcraft MADI digital snake. The key concept is that MADI is time-division multiplexing based on carrying the clock and data/music (and MIDI) in specific time intervals created by the clock; and the link protocol is not Ethernet of any sort. (I just mention this because sometimes people see Cat5E or Cat6 cable and instantly assume it's Ethernet.)

DANTE is a networked protocol that works over standard Ethernet LAN switches. It is flexible in the topologies that can be created, inherently bi-directional, and because it's standard, will work over normal twisted pair and fiber optic Ethenet network links. It does not transport MIDI. Clock information is distributed from an 'elected' clock within the Dante subnet, and all data/music packets maintain synchronization at their destination via the time stamped packets.

MADI is going in/out of your computer via a PCIe or USB adapter. Dante is going in/out of your computer via PCIe, USB, or a Dante Virtual Soundcard using your standard Ethernet adapter, or on Dante Via which 'tunnels' a regular ASIO USB/Firewire interface onto the Ethernet adapter of the computer.

MADI topology with multiple source rooms, or multiple destination rooms are created with MADI Router boxes, or splitter/merge function boxes. Dante topology with multiple rooms is created with normal Ethernet cables/switches and the source/destination matrix defined/managed in the free Dante Controller software.

The Dante Virtual Soundcard software is 64in/64out. The Dante PCIe card is 128in/128out. There are Dante boxes of all sorts with channel counts of 2, 4, 8, 32, bi-directional, in-only, out-only, etc.

I'll stop here. I hope that give you enough information to explore the differences in more detail. As more people arrive at this thread you'll get more aspects of the two technologies presented to you.

By the way, thank you for not using the word "best" in the title of the thread.
Old 21 hours ago
  #3
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Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by MediaGary View Post
I'm surprised that I'm the first one here.

I hope that give you enough information to explore the differences in more detail. As more people arrive at this thread you'll get more aspects of the two technologies presented to you.
Thank you very much for all the information. It is helpful and interesting. I am surpsie that you are the only one who answered. Are these protocols so exotic?

If you have two set-up, same PC computer on Window10, same DAW, same A/D/A etc. but one with MADI on PCI and the other with DANTE on PCI which one will allow for more hi-frequency channels? The fastest with lowest latency?

Thank

Dan

Last edited by DanTheMan06; 21 hours ago at 03:25 PM.. Reason: add info-question
Old 21 hours ago
  #4
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octatonic's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanTheMan06 View Post
Thank you very much for all the information. It is helpful and interesting. I am surpsie that you are the only one who answered. Are these protocols so exotic?

If you have two set-up, same PC computer on Window10, same DAW, same A/D/A etc. but one with MADI on PCI and the other with DANTE on PCI which one will allow for more hi-frequency channels? The fastest with lowest latency?

Thank

Dan
MediaGary has nailed it.

Dante comes with an administrative overhead than many musician/engineers will grate at having to manage.
I have a Dante network but I have a previous background in IT networking so it works for me.

You can't compare protocols in the way you are suggesting.
Some implementations of the same protocol will be better than other implementations of the other protocol. It is just a protocol, how out is implemented can yield very difficult results.

Dante is more 'now' though and companies that were fully invested in MADI are now shifting to (or at least investing in) Dante (SSL, RME and others).

You could probably save a bundle by buying used and going for MADI as people dump MADI for Dante.
Also there are MADI to Dante converters, such as Focusrite RedNet D64R.
Old 19 hours ago
  #5
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...what previous posters mentioned.

i got a madi setup here - which was very expensive back in the day! it still works, there is a lot of choice of equipment now and some used but excellent gear can be found for ridiculous prices these days. it's still pretty much standard in broadcast although it slowly (but surely?) gets replaced by network protocols - not necessarily dante though!

when doing live work, i still prefer madi over dante, especially in hectic situations: madi either works or it doesn't. if not, it's due to a piece of gear or the cable while with dante... - possibly no problem for an it tech yet i've come across far too many situation where multiple experienced engineers couldn't get that damn network going after replacing (or expanding on) gear...

have a look at the latest rme interfaces: they got both madi and dante in one box!
Old 18 hours ago
  #6
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Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by deedeeyeah View Post
...what previous posters mentioned.

have a look at the latest rme interfaces: they got both madi and dante in one box!
I will check the latest RME interfaces although they were not my first choice. As MADI and DANTE are protocols and are, to some extent, hardware independant it shouldn't be too difficult/expensive to offer both on a single A\D\A. Too bad it is not more frequent.

One thing I like about MADI is that it carry MIDI and DANTE doesn't. I like to have my MIDI equipment on my current interface all the time it is very useful.

Dan
Old 17 hours ago
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanTheMan06 View Post
I will check the latest RME interfaces although they were not my first choice. As MADI and DANTE are protocols and are, to some extent, hardware independant it shouldn't be too difficult/expensive to offer both on a single A\D\A. Too bad it is not more frequent.

One thing I like about MADI is that it carry MIDI and DANTE doesn't. I like to have my MIDI equipment on my current interface all the time it is very useful.

Dan
i was mentioning rme cause their latest interfaces could save you from buying a dedicated converter, but they don't have adda converters which can be driven off both madi and dante. there are some products which have multiple slots for differnent cards: studer, stagetec, lawo, merging, possibly dad, maybe grace? and yes, midi over madi (over large distances) is quite useful! i'm using some rme gear to enable this...
Old 17 hours ago
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanTheMan06 View Post
... One thing I like about MADI is that it carry MIDI and DANTE doesn't. I like to have my MIDI equipment on my current interface all the time it is very useful.
....
While MIDI over MADI is desirable, it only makes sense to do that when the source/destination is physically far enough to demand a MADI link between. I'm just cautioning against having the 'tail wag the dog'.

For example, in my studio, the MIDI in/out the DAW computer is on a Roland UM-3G 3-port MIDI device, while the audio is transported on the Dante Virtual Soundcard. One of the DAW MIDI destinations is the Midas M32 mixer for Mackie Control emulation. Whereas the USB port of the M32 was able to do MIDI and audio concurrently, going to Dante demanded a different physical transport for MIDI.

Since the distances involved were all under 15 feet, no special considerations beyond normal MIDI cables were required. If this is a live event with a stagebox 'way over there, and you need to get MIDI to/from where your recording/control equipment is, then MADI is handy for that.

I'm glad some other people showed up here.
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