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Metric Halo 3D Is Here
Old 4 weeks ago
  #2131
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Sanchez's Avatar
In 3D console the LIO8 physical monitor knob and the GI representation move in sync whichever you adjust. The Control Room Headphone doesn't sync (for me anyway) and this makes me veeeeery wary when using headphones. Is there any way to lock the soft/hardware headphone levels to each other so I can see actual headphone level on-screen?

edit:realised that the LIO8 headfone leds follow Console GUI changes but not vice versa. Bug? Feature? Request?


Also is there any way to disable MIO Console 3D from responding to OS system volume adjust inputment ie from my computer keyboard as it makes dramatic jumps and a wrong-pushed computer button when nothing is playing can make for a nasty surprise when you hit play.

Thanks

Last edited by Sanchez; 4 weeks ago at 01:58 PM..
Old 4 weeks ago
  #2132
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Musician View Post
@bj:

If I connect my uln8 2d preconfigured with a mio bootstate to have all inputs go out the stereo outs, into my uln2 3d... does that mean A/D uln8 input, D/A uln8 output and again A/D uln2 input?
If you go out analog from the ULN-8 and in Analog on the ULN-2, then yes - that would be A/D -> Mix -> D/A -> A/D.

If you get a 3d card for the ULN-8 then you can use them together without having to do multiple conversions.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #2133
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanchez View Post
In 3D console the LIO8 physical monitor knob and the GI representation move in sync whichever you adjust. The Control Room Headphone doesn't sync (for me anyway) and this makes me veeeeery wary when using headphones. Is there any way to lock the soft/hardware headphone levels to each other so I can see actual headphone level on-screen?

edit:realised that the LIO8 headfone leds follow Console GUI changes but not vice versa. Bug? Feature? Request?
Half a bug, Half a feature request. We are aware of the fact that the Cue gain does not track the headphone gain control from the front panel. Its a bit complicated as the Cue is not a headphone control (even though it is used that way). So the logic to determine which FP control should be linked back is complex. But it is something we plan on addressing.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanchez View Post
Also is there any way to disable MIO Console 3D from responding to OS system volume adjust inputment ie from my computer keyboard as it makes dramatic jumps and a wrong-pushed computer button when nothing is playing can make for a nasty surprise when you hit play.
Not presently. File a feature request.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #2134
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Musician's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by mh_bj View Post
If you go out analog from the ULN-8 and in Analog on the ULN-2, then yes - that would be A/D -> Mix -> D/A -> A/D.

If you get a 3d card for the ULN-8 then you can use them together without having to do multiple conversions.
Thanks! Thats what I needed to know. Now I HOPE you guys still grant me that Early Adopter discount now also on my ULN8 as the deadline was actually yesterday!
Old 4 weeks ago
  #2135
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Musician View Post
Thanks! Thats what I needed to know. Now I HOPE you guys still grant me that Early Adopter discount now also on my ULN8 as the deadline was actually yesterday!
We've extended it - so no problem.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #2136
Here for the gear
Does it make sense to invest in an Avid Artist system in order to have real tactile control over 3d? Or is there ANY hardware or even touchscreen solution that lets me use the 3d mixer like an actual mixer?
I mean, after years of using 2d and Logic with Mackie /Logic Control, missing too much tactile control for my physical inputs, I have switched over to a vintage audio workstation here, just because i have direct access to all input channels, outboard FX sends and returns, AND built-in eq and dynamics for my inputs, I can store different settings and even ride automation on it easily. I still have the Metric Halo 2882 (now 3d, hence no integration with Logic anymore) in my system but I use it "only" for the good clocking and as an additional I/O box and some routing jobs. So I am working inside of one system with only one dedicated mixer for all inputs, returns, outputs, and busses.

If I would switch back to the Logic/Metric Halo system, I'd have to deal with two more or less closed systems, the I/O system (my 2882 with software) and the DAW. If I'd use a controller like Mackie Control which I still have, some important things would be missing that should be right at hand all the time - i.e. the wonderful 3d dynamics and EQ! Especially for setting an EQ, I need tactile control, be it by knobs or faders. Anyway, I'd have to switch between I/O system and DAW all the time - the DAW having its own mixer anyway, with a superb automation, so I would never ever use another software mixer surface for mixing my DAW tracks, except for summing or mastering purposes.

So my question is just regarding the physical inputs of my system: Can I build a classic standard mixer with 3d that's nearly fully controllable by any hardware controller? I mean, not only mixing levels, sends, headamp gain and that kind of stuff? Does anybody understand what I am talking about or do I just miss something, as a guy who loves using his hands and ears for music production, and not so much his eyes? Honestly. Maybe, I am just too oldschool.

Thank you for your comments, and don't think I don't hear the quality of my MH system but it confuses me.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #2137
Lives for gear
 
drockfresh's Avatar
How’s everybody liking the 3D converters, and what have you compared them to?
Old 4 weeks ago
  #2138
Quote:
Originally Posted by drockfresh View Post
How’s everybody liking the 3D converters, and what have you compared them to?
This is an awfully long thread, but a brief survey wouldn't take long to gain a sense of the consensus about the improvement brought by 3d. I believe there are some comparisons.

To save you some time, we love them!
Old 4 weeks ago
  #2139
Gear Guru
 
henryrobinett's Avatar
What Edwin said.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #2140
At least twice a day I get this issue appearing on my uln8 3d with shuttle pro2 connected.

It will jump to full volume on the monitor out volume. Sometimes with Dim enabled and sometimes not!

Is anyone else getting this behavior?

I have tried connecting the shuttle to a hub first as well as direct.

When the shuttle is assigned to other programs there is no weird behaviour.

Running pb9 with high sierra. Happened on pb7 and 8 aswell.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #2141
Lives for gear
 
b0se's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by drockfresh View Post
How’s everybody liking the 3D converters, and what have you compared them to?
Love my LIO-8, came from Prism Lyra.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #2142
Lives for gear
 
microwave's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by bcslaam View Post
At least twice a day I get this issue appearing on my uln8 3d with shuttle pro2 connected.

It will jump to full volume on the monitor out volume. Sometimes with Dim enabled and sometimes not!

Is anyone else getting this behavior?

I have tried connecting the shuttle to a hub first as well as direct.

When the shuttle is assigned to other programs there is no weird behaviour.

Running pb9 with high sierra. Happened on pb7 and 8 aswell.
I’m using the Shuttle Xpress and it works perfectly here with Mojave. No issues at all. Did you install the latest driver, and did you try to delete your Shuttle preferences and start over with configuring it?
Old 4 weeks ago
  #2143
Gear Head
Quote:
Originally Posted by bcslaam View Post
At least twice a day I get this issue appearing on my uln8 3d with shuttle pro2 connected.

It will jump to full volume on the monitor out volume. Sometimes with Dim enabled and sometimes not!

Is anyone else getting this behavior?

I have tried connecting the shuttle to a hub first as well as direct.

When the shuttle is assigned to other programs there is no weird behaviour.

Running pb9 with high sierra. Happened on pb7 and 8 aswell.
I have some front panel monitoring issue, but not the same thing you get: I don't have any shuttle. And it happend mostly when MIOConsole is minimized. I have that since pb7, working with pb6 now.
It seems nobody got that....:(
Old 4 weeks ago
  #2144
Quote:
Originally Posted by microwave View Post
I’m using the Shuttle Xpress and it works perfectly here with Mojave. No issues at all. Did you install the latest driver, and did you try to delete your Shuttle preferences and start over with configuring it?
Yes I am. The last driver for OSX 10.8 to 10.13.x was v3.0.0.39 made in 2016
There is a newer driver (2018) for Majave v3.2.0 but I cant run that on my MBP, which is running High Sierra.

I have tried that 3rd party patch to use Mojave, but updating is problematic and one hosed my OS so I stopped using Mojave.

I guess I could try the Shuttle driver meant for Mojave on High Sierra.

I havent tried deleting preferences. Will try that first.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #2145
Gear Head
Hi

My MacBook Pro 2012 mid works very well with my LIO-8 and 2882 3d system. But now I have a plan to buy a big orchestra library, which minimi needs quad core and i7.
So I have a thought to buy a new machine.

Question 1.
MacMini 2018 it has options to choice:
1.
Gigabit Ethernet (10/100/1000BASE-T Gigabit Ethernet using RJ-45 connectors
or
2. 100$ extra price 10 Gigabit Ethernet (Nbase-T Ethernet with support for 1Gb, 2,5Gb and 10Gb Ethernet using RJ-45 connectors

Can I manage my MH links with the option one?

Question 2.
What about those Macs, which have only Thunderbolt conncetions? Is there an adapter for my MH link? Is it as easy as with my old mac (which has an ethernet connection)?
Old 4 weeks ago
  #2146
Lives for gear
 
Musician's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by mh_bj View Post
We've extended it - so no problem.
Just read the email! Just brilliant, you guys rule!
I ve converted a friend producer who was an advocate for Apogee- He was blown away by the tight honest sound out of his just received LIO8 3d.
So another happy customer for life.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #2147
Lives for gear
 
Musician's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johannes w1 View Post
Hi

My MacBook Pro 2012 mid works very well with my LIO-8 and 2882 3d system. But now I have a plan to buy a big orchestra library, which minimi needs quad core and i7.
So I have a thought to buy a new machine.

Question 1.
MacMini 2018 it has options to choice:
1.
Gigabit Ethernet (10/100/1000BASE-T Gigabit Ethernet using RJ-45 connectors
or
2. 100$ extra price 10 Gigabit Ethernet (Nbase-T Ethernet with support for 1Gb, 2,5Gb and 10Gb Ethernet using RJ-45 connectors

Can I manage my MH links with the option one?

Question 2.
What about those Macs, which have only Thunderbolt conncetions? Is there an adapter for my MH link? Is it as easy as with my old mac (which has an ethernet connection)?
Answer to Q1: yes because I use it successfully 1 GBit thru a switch driving a ULN2 3d and soon a ULN8 3d.
To Q2: yes, it works also with a TB adapter BUT you need 2 adapters in a row and each conversion slows the data connection. Wouldnt do it especially if you plan using multiple boxes linked go with Ethernet.

Go with Ethernet connection, its stable and fast. And with a switch you can still other devices.
Just dont use an older switch that doesnt offer Gigabit speeds.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #2148
Lives for gear
 
drockfresh's Avatar
How about an Edge Card with two more heaphone outs

Love the LIO 3D system - but the one headphone out is kind of a bummer
Old 4 weeks ago
  #2149
Lives for gear
 
drockfresh's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by b0se View Post
Love my LIO-8, came from Prism Lyra.
Wow, that's a big vote for MH conversion

The Prism is a top shelf unit
Old 4 weeks ago
  #2150
Lives for gear
 
swafford's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by drockfresh View Post
How about an Edge Card with two more heaphone outs

Love the LIO 3D system - but the one headphone out is kind of a bummer
Yeah, an edge card with 4 analog I/O (or 8 In or 8 Out) would be great and has been a frequent suggestion.

Of course you can also use the Analog sends on the LIO to drive cans. I usually set mine up with mono sends.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #2151
Here for the gear
 
darkDNA's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by drockfresh View Post
How’s everybody liking the 3D converters, and what have you compared them to?
I’m interested in this as well, anyone done any direct comparisons with any other high end converters, Burl etc ?
Old 4 weeks ago
  #2152
Lives for gear
 
drockfresh's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by darkDNA View Post
I’m interested in this as well, anyone done any direct comparisons with any other high end converters, Burl etc ?
I've asked that a few times, not sure many have them next to each other.

I purchased a second MH unit at the early price on a whim to daisy-chain.

Arrived yesterday.

But now I have opportunity to get a Mothership chassis with 4 inputs.

So I can send the MH back (but it was 50% off MSRP and is awesome!)

Or go Burl

I'm trying to find out on *conversion only* how the MH stacks up

The Burl has an analog stage and transformer that adds some mojo

But I don't need that ... only CONVERSION

I have no idea if it's worth the huge upgrade and space cost

Stuck here on the fence...
Old 4 weeks ago
  #2153
Gear Nut
Where can I download the latest firmware for the lio8 3d? Have the latest console release, but there was no firmware included in the download.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #2154
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by 10pints View Post
Where can I download the latest firmware for the lio8 3d? Have the latest console release, but there was no firmware included in the download.
The firmware is included in the MIOConsole3d. If you have a box that has older firmware than the included firmware, the firmware version listed for the box in the system status pane will be shown in orange. If you click the orange firmware label, the software will offer to update the firmware for you.

You should read through the release notes for pb7; it covers this in detail:

https://mhsecure.com/3d_Early_Access...es/pb7.html#s9

The link above takes you right to the "Embedded Firmware and Driver" section.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #2155
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by drockfresh View Post
I've asked that a few times, not sure many have them next to each other.

I purchased a second MH unit at the early price on a whim to daisy-chain.

Arrived yesterday.

But now I have opportunity to get a Mothership chassis with 4 inputs.

So I can send the MH back (but it was 50% off MSRP and is awesome!)

Or go Burl

I'm trying to find out on *conversion only* how the MH stacks up

The Burl has an analog stage and transformer that adds some mojo

But I don't need that ... only CONVERSION

I have no idea if it's worth the huge upgrade and space cost

Stuck here on the fence...
I think there's no such thing as "conversion only". The line ins of MH also have an analog gain stage that you can't bypass. The Burl analog section is class A, which is the more high end thing. But it also costs quite some more.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #2156
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by shahstlz View Post
I think there's no such thing as "conversion only". The line ins of MH also have an analog gain stage that you can't bypass. The Burl analog section is class A, which is the more high end thing. But it also costs quite some more.
Well, the question is - what are you looking for? Converters that represent the input signal as accurately as possible? Or something that imparts a character?

The LIO-8 and ULN-8 are designed to be as transparent as possible (and the gain is designed as "wire with gain").

Class-A has a character - it is shooting for the linear portion of the Class-A curve - but it is not going to be linear through the entire signal range, unless the rails are enormous. Transformers have a character. Again, high-quality, expensive transformers are trying to be linear through the entire signal range, but even the really really great ones have frequency dependent nonlinearities.

Now - you might like that character; it might make everything sound "good". And if that's what you are going for, then having a converter with those signal processing elements as a fixed feature of the converter may be what you want.

I would say that this approach is more valid capture A/D and processing D/A to that you use for driving an analog processing loop. IMNSHO, it is NOT what you want for a studio monitoring D/A - because then you are listening to your media through processing that is not part of your delivery chain.

As far as the character goes, that's why we have Character, and it is instantiable for our converters. It is certainly a valid choice have some tasty nonlinearities on the way in - but it doesn't have to be part of the analog stage of your converter. If it is, then you are always stuck with it - even if it is not appropriate. Same thing on the way out.

In our experience, making the converter and the front end as linear as possible enables this sort of processing to really shine. Distorting distortion is never great - ideally you want as clean a signal as possible to apply the distortion that you want to achieve the effect you are looking for.

Anyway - that's my two cents. If you are looking for a converter and are not concerned (or don't want) an added layer of fixed signal processing - well - that's what we design and tune for.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #2157
Lives for gear
 
drockfresh's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by mh_bj View Post
Well, the question is - what are you looking for? Converters that represent the input signal as accurately as possible? Or something that imparts a character?

The LIO-8 and ULN-8 are designed to be as transparent as possible (and the gain is designed as "wire with gain").

Class-A has a character - it is shooting for the linear portion of the Class-A curve - but it is not going to be linear through the entire signal range, unless the rails are enormous. Transformers have a character. Again, high-quality, expensive transformers are trying to be linear through the entire signal range, but even the really really great ones have frequency dependent nonlinearities.

Now - you might like that character; it might make everything sound "good". And if that's what you are going for, then having a converter with those signal processing elements as a fixed feature of the converter may be what you want.

I would say that this approach is more valid capture A/D and processing D/A to that you use for driving an analog processing loop. IMNSHO, it is NOT what you want for a studio monitoring D/A - because then you are listening to your media through processing that is not part of your delivery chain.

As far as the character goes, that's why we have Character, and it is instantiable for our converters. It is certainly a valid choice have some tasty nonlinearities on the way in - but it doesn't have to be part of the analog stage of your converter. If it is, then you are always stuck with it - even if it is not appropriate. Same thing on the way out.

In our experience, making the converter and the front end as linear as possible enables this sort of processing to really shine. Distorting distortion is never great - ideally you want as clean a signal as possible to apply the distortion that you want to achieve the effect you are looking for.

Anyway - that's my two cents. If you are looking for a converter and are not concerned (or don't want) an added layer of fixed signal processing - well - that's what we design and tune for.
Great description. I’ve got tubes and transformers before I hit converters. I like to control the amount of Character/Mojo that gets printed. Just want to make sure the MEtric Halo A to D is accurate in the most hifi pleasing way - not adding *digititus* or harsh high end, using using the most modern internal components you can get, compared to others.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #2158
Gear Guru
 
henryrobinett's Avatar
I'm of the train of thought clean and transparent. I have a bank of Millennia for instance. I haven't used them in a few years. I like to apply color after the recording process. Character and other UAD/other compressors, EQs. That's me.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #2159
Here for the gear
 
darkDNA's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by drockfresh View Post
I've asked that a few times, not sure many have them next to each other.

I purchased a second MH unit at the early price on a whim to daisy-chain.

Arrived yesterday.

But now I have opportunity to get a Mothership chassis with 4 inputs.

So I can send the MH back (but it was 50% off MSRP and is awesome!)

Or go Burl

I'm trying to find out on *conversion only* how the MH stacks up

The Burl has an analog stage and transformer that adds some mojo

But I don't need that ... only CONVERSION

I have no idea if it's worth the huge upgrade and space cost

Stuck here on the fence...
I was in a similar boat and also decided to go with an additional MH box, couldn’t resist the 50% off MRSP for such a superb product. Just ordered it a couple days ago. Anyways it was the right decision for my set up but am always curious to hear direct comparison experiences with other quality converters.

D.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #2160
Lives for gear
 
drockfresh's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by darkDNA View Post
I was in a similar boat and also decided to go with an additional MH box, couldn’t resist the 50% off MRSP for such a superb product. Just ordered it a couple days ago. Anyways it was the right decision for my set up but am always curious to hear direct comparison experiences with other quality converters.

D.
Thanks bud. Makes me feel better
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