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Metric Halo 3D Is Here
Old 3 weeks ago
  #1951
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brucerothwell's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Way View Post
What's the trick to add a stereo input strip? I'm not finding it.

Thanks,
WW
when you add a strip, and you then assign your input, there is a setting in the upper right that can be changed to stereo.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #1952
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brucerothwell View Post
Can someone explain the difference between a ULN-8 and an LIO-8 with preamps added?
In 2d, the ULN-8 included +DSP, and it was optional for the LIO-8. So in 2d, the ULN-8 was the same as a LIO-8/8p +DSP.

In 3d, +DSP is included for all devices, so ULN-8 = LIO-8/8p.

The one other difference is that a unit that was shipped as a ULN-8 has a ULN-8 dome tag on the front panel. A unit that was shipped as a LIO-8 has a LIO-8 dome tag on the front panel.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #1953
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brucerothwell View Post
I understand what you be sayin' but what if I am already using the Line In's because I am using external preamps?
If you are using external preamps, you don't need to have a send/return; you just patch your processing between the external preamp and the line in.

The point of the send/return is to be able to patch analog processing between the preamp in the ULN-8 and the ADC in the ULN-8.

The send is active in any case, so you can still use the send as an active analog split. But the return is intended to come in via the line inputs.

Also - if the unit is a LIO-8, while the send is still active, there is no place to return (unless you use a different line in for this scenario). But again, if the signal is already line-level, you don't need to use the send/return to do analog processing before the ADC.

Quote:
Originally Posted by brucerothwell View Post
Is there a way to pad down the mic pre inputs to accept a line-level signal?
Yes. Just turn the gain down. The Mic Pres handle input signals up to +20 dBu (if my memory is correct).
Old 3 weeks ago
  #1954
Gear Addict
 
jayfield's Avatar
 

External hardware insert procedure for 3d

I've posted a thread about using external hardware in Logic
with the ULN8, a Portico II channel strip and Mamba patchbay
No problem recording into the Portico then into Uln8 and into Logic.
Its the bounced software instrument audio files that are in Logic and I want to get them through the Portico

Can't seem to get it happening. Help appreciated

ULN8 patching external hardware (Portico II) with Logic and Mamba Patchbay

Ordered my 3d upgrade last week.

Is the routing for external hardware the same in 3D as 2D?

Thanks
Old 2 weeks ago
  #1955
Gear Addict
 
rrraaalllfff's Avatar
Is anybody else getting erratic behavior from the volume rotary encoder? over here, moving it normally is useless cause it does what it wants (either goes up or down by a small yet random amount regardless of direction of movement). Moving it click by click real slow (around 1.5Hz) kinda allows you to inch toward a desired level. But boy is it difficult to keep at peace while doing it.

edit. sometimes the problem is more severe than other times. I have not been able to narrow down why.

Last edited by rrraaalllfff; 2 weeks ago at 07:48 PM.. Reason: fuller picture
Old 2 weeks ago
  #1956
Quote:
Originally Posted by rrraaalllfff View Post
Is anybody else getting erratic behavior from the volume rotary encoder? over here, moving it normally is useless cause it does what it wants (either goes up or down by a small yet random amount regardless of direction of movement). Moving it click by click real slow (around 1.5Hz) kinda allows you to inch toward a desired level. But boy is it difficult to keep at peace while doing it.

edit. sometimes the problem is more severe than other times. I have not been able to narrow down why.
Are you talking about input or monitor/headphone encoders?
Old 2 weeks ago
  #1957
Gear Addict
 
rrraaalllfff's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by edwinhurwitz View Post
Are you talking about input or monitor/headphone encoders?
Apologies for lack of clarity. I meant monitor/headphone encoder
Old 2 weeks ago
  #1958
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rrraaalllfff View Post
Apologies for lack of clarity. I meant monitor/headphone encoder
Does it happen if the box is not attached to the computer?
Old 2 weeks ago
  #1959
Quote:
Originally Posted by rrraaalllfff View Post
Apologies for lack of clarity. I meant monitor/headphone encoder
This kind of thing was an issue where the encoder would get out of sync with the monitor control level, but I thought it was fixed. Are you running the latest beta software and firmware?
Old 2 weeks ago
  #1960
Gear Addict
 
rrraaalllfff's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by edwinhurwitz View Post
This kind of thing was an issue where the encoder would get out of sync with the monitor control level, but I thought it was fixed. Are you running the latest beta software and firmware?
I was running the latest console software but not the latest driver or firmware
Somehow I missed that if the version numbers are yellow/orange color, I have to click on them an it will install the needed code. Before this I just clicked on "check updates" and the dialog box said I'm all good. So, yeah, my mistake. Thank you for the help. It seems to be working properly now.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #1961
Gear Addict
 
rrraaalllfff's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by mh_bj View Post
Does it happen if the box is not attached to the computer?
Thanks BJ, problem solved. User error. Apologies.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #1962
Gear Maniac
Does anyone know if the ULN-8 USB port is able to receive audio signal from other USB audio interfaces like Roland boutique series that has USB audio output?
Old 2 weeks ago
  #1963
Quote:
Originally Posted by esencia View Post
Does anyone know if the ULN-8 USB port is able to receive audio signal from other USB audio interfaces like Roland boutique series that has USB audio output?
Highly unlikely. Those units effectively work as audio interfaces in their own right. The ULN-8 can't run the software (e.g. Roland driver etc) like the computer can.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #1964
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brucerothwell's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by thermal View Post
Highly unlikely. Those units effectively work as audio interfaces in their own right. The ULN-8 can't run the software (e.g. Roland driver etc) like the computer can.
Ummm.... I thought that the purpose of the new USB port feature -- "SCP" -- was that if you were NOT using the USB port as your MH audio interface port, than you could use it to integrate _another_ USB audio device into MIO Console.

Quote:
Satellite Computer Port (SCP) Support (added in pb7)

SCP Routing Selector
MIOConsole3d now supports explicit routing to and from the USB connector on any unit in the MHLink chain. When used in this way the USB ports are referred to as Satellite Computer Ports.

This new feature allows you to integrate audio from multiple devices without having to purchase additional interfaces. It automatically keeps your devices synchronized with your system and provides device to device routing as well as integrated mixing and processing.

You can connect a sampler running on a another computer and directly mix its outputs with the rest of your sources. You route directly between computers/devices or mult signals to multiple computers/devices - so you can set up a computer or an iPad as an effects rack or backup recorder.

Since iOS devices provide native support for UAC2 (USB audio), you can integrate the output of multiple iOS instruments into your MHLink Mixer via the direct digital link, and you can record real-time performances by routing them to your main recording computer.

You can use the SCP functionality to integrate multiple computers (or iOS devices) into your MHLink mixing engine. Each USB port is available for connection with a USB audio host. The SCP USB source and destination categories in the routing selector popups allow you to select explicit USB channels to route to and from.

To use a USB port as an SCP port, simply connect the device to one of the USB ports on one of the units in your MHLink chain. Then on the device, select the USB interface of the connected 3d unit as the audio interface for the device, signal processing software or DAW.

NOTE: As with all things MHLink, there can only be one copy of MIOConsole3d running on all the computers connected to the boxes, and if multiple boxes will be in the MHLink chain, the computer running MIOConsole3d must be connected via MHLink in order to control the multi-box chain. See below for new functionality that enables the simultaneous connection of MHLink and USB on one computer.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #1965
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brucerothwell View Post
Ummm.... I thought that the purpose of the new USB port feature -- "SCP" -- was that if you were NOT using the USB port as your MH audio interface port, than you could use it to integrate _another_ USB audio device into MIO Console.
Another USB *Host* device. So you can connect an iPhone or an Android phone, a Mac or Win10 computer or a Linux host.

But the 3d does not act as a USB Host, so you cannot connect a USB audio device to it.
Old 1 week ago
  #1966
Here for the gear
 

How warm is too warm for ULN-8s to run? I've got two that I'd like to keep in consecutive rack slots due to space constraints... but they do get quite warm when running. Worth worrying about, or no? There IS a good amount of air around the pair of them (above, below, and to the sides) when they are together.

Could run two slightly spaced over three slots, but would rather save the extra slot.
Old 1 week ago
  #1967
Quote:
Originally Posted by milton View Post
How warm is too warm for ULN-8s to run? I've got two that I'd like to keep in consecutive rack slots due to space constraints... but they do get quite warm when running. Worth worrying about, or no? There IS a good amount of air around the pair of them (above, below, and to the sides) when they are together.

Could run two slightly spaced over three slots, but would rather save the extra slot.
They get quite warm which never a good thing for electronics. I have three in a rack and got a rack mount fan from, of all places, rackfans.com, and have it on the back of the rack blowing directly on them which works great and is virtually silent.
Old 1 week ago
  #1968
Here for the gear
 

Is a Dante Edge card something that's on the cards?
It would be great way to integrate 3d with other systems.
Old 1 week ago
  #1969
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Quote:
Originally Posted by antcarrier View Post
Is a Dante Edge card something that's on the cards?
It would be great way to integrate 3d with other systems.
It is definitely something we plan to do, and the EdgeCard design took the elements required to implement Dante into account. That said, I cannot predict when a Dante EdgeCard may become available.
Old 1 week ago
  #1970
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Metric Halo and Catalina (10.15)

As you may well know, with the imminent release of macOS Catalina (10.15), Apple has removed support for 32-bit apps (e.g. Apps that were built against the Carbon API), and required applications, plugins and drivers to be Notarized for distribution outside of the macOS AppStore. This has implications on your ability to run MH (and other manufacturers) Software on macOS Catalina.

Mobile I/O

MIOConsole3d is a 64-bit app, and both MIOConsole3d and the MHLinkDriver have been tested with the Catalina betas. Everything works properly and we expect the 3d software to be fully compatible with Catalina when the public release of Catalina ships.

If you intend to upgrade to Catalina and beyond, and you have not yet upgraded your MIOs to 3d we strongly recommend that you upgrade your Metric Halo devices to 3d now, while you can still take advantage of Early Access pricing and Early Adopter Status.

MIO Console v5.x (for Firewire based units) is a Carbon (32-bit) app.

We do not plan to port it to Cocoa (which is required to make it run on 10.15+).

Apple deprecated FireWire back in the 10.12 timeframe; they won't fix bugs we report against FireWire and they won't provide help with Firewire if a new OS release breaks some functionality (we've been down that road a few times over the last couple of years). It's simply not tenable for us to keep supporting the Firewire-based products on 10.15+.

If you plan on staying with 2d/Firewire - DO NOT UPDATE TO CATALINA - you will not be able to launch MIO Console v.5 to control your MIOs.


MH Production Bundle

The MH Production Bundle has been 64-bit since it originally shipped. We have been tracking the Catalina Developer Betas and the MH Production Bundle is compatible with Catalina.

That being said, due to the new Notarization & Hardened Runtime security requirements that Apple has added for Applications, it is *very* likely that users will encounter the following issues on upgrading to Catalina:

1) Some audio hosts may not be ready on the initial release of Catalina. So please check with the developers who make your DAW and other plugin hosting products to verify that the products you use are ready and tested on Catalina

2) There are new complexities associated with interaction of Catalina’s application security model and hosting plugins. It is very likely that even when using hosts and plugins that have been tested for Catalina that some combinations may not work as expected during the initial days of the new OS/App/Plugin releases.

Our recommendation would be that if you rely on non-MH applications and plugins:

(a) Check with the manufacturers of all the products you rely on before updating; this update is more likely to require effort on the part of developers than past updates have been.
(b) Do not update while you are in the middle of something - you may have to spend time getting everything working again
(c) Do make a full backup of your system before updating, in case you need to roll back
(e) Perhaps wait longer to update than you would normally - just to give things some more time to settle down


SpectraFoo

I am sorry to report that for the first time in the entire history of macOS X, it is not looking like we will be able have a compatible update release of SpectraFoo available on day 1 of the next macOS X release. We have prioritized finishing up our 3d Software.

SpectraFoo is not compatible with macOS Catalina and we will not have a new version completed before the GM of Catalina is released in October.

We will have a SpectraFoo release that is compatible with Catalina in the not too distant future, and one of the byproducts of that work is that we should be able to offer SpectraFoo on Windows as well as macOS.

If you have a reliance on SpectraFoo, PLEASE HOLD OFF UPDATING TO CATALINA as you will not be able to run SpectraFoo if you update.

Best regards,

B.J. Buchalter
Metric Halo
http://www.mhlabs.com
Old 6 days ago
  #1971
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microwave's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by swafford View Post
For me it was getting rid of Firewire. I fried 3 phi (sp?) boards in the MH units over the course of 12 years, the first occurrence took out the logic board of a laptop.

The rest - improved sound, easy aggregation, edge card expansion, etc. has been gravy.
To be honest I thought that reports of improved sound with 3D hardware should be taken with a pinch of salt until I recently upgraded my ULN-8. It does sound (even) better. A bit of extra depth, tighter bass and improved stereo image. Outstanding.
Old 6 days ago
  #1972
Quote:
Originally Posted by microwave View Post
To be honest I thought that reports of improved sound with 3D hardware should be taken with a pinch of salt until I recently upgraded my ULN-8. It does sound (even) better. A bit of extra depth, tighter bass and improved stereo image. Outstanding.
I do mostly location recording and I have to attribute a lot of my reputation on providing good clean tracks to Metric Halo, especially now with 3d.
Old 6 days ago
  #1973
Gear Addict
 
flextone's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mh_bj View Post
Does it happen if the box is not attached to the computer?

Happens here actually, LIO8. Also when not connected to the mac. Encoder moves one db every ~5-10 notches. Hardware issue?

Cheers
R
Old 6 days ago
  #1974
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Sanchez's Avatar
Hi all,

I've ordered a 3D card for my LIO8 (+4) to use with my 2012 Mac Mini. My needs are very simple, usually 1-3 mics max and 1 pair of monitors and cans...can anyone give me a 2-line roundup on current 3D connection thoughts? Going forward, USB connection was a big sell for me but I'm seeing mention of ethernet - not that I can't deal with it but I'd like to get ahead of things if I need to get any adapters etc rather than troubleshooting/downtime.

Many thanks
Old 6 days ago
  #1975
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanchez View Post
Hi all,

I've ordered a 3D card for my LIO8 (+4) to use with my 2012 Mac Mini. My needs are very simple, usually 1-3 mics max and 1 pair of monitors and cans...can anyone give me a 2-line roundup on current 3D connection thoughts? Going forward, USB connection was a big sell for me but I'm seeing mention of ethernet - not that I can't deal with it but I'd like to get ahead of things if I need to get any adapters etc rather than troubleshooting/downtime.

Many thanks

USB will work, but ethernet is more flexible and efficient. Plus, if you set up via ethernet, you can use the USB port for another computer, iPad, etc., to access the audio for all kinds of other purposes, from recording to metering, etc.

So, I would suggest ethernet. USB will probably catch up soon.
Old 6 days ago
  #1976
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by flextone View Post
Happens here actually, LIO8. Also when not connected to the mac. Encoder moves one db every ~5-10 notches. Hardware issue?
It could be. Probably best to open a support ticket so we can gather more information.

https://mhsecure.com/support
Old 6 days ago
  #1977
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Sanchez's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by edwinhurwitz View Post
USB will work, but ethernet is more flexible and efficient. Plus, if you set up via ethernet, you can use the USB port for another computer, iPad, etc., to access the audio for all kinds of other purposes, from recording to metering, etc.

So, I would suggest ethernet. USB will probably catch up soon.
Thanks Edwin, I actually have a Belkin hub connected to the Mac Mini by lightning cable and I still have free USB and an ethernet port on there. Presuming I would be better connecting the LIO to the ethernet on the Mini and using the one on the hub for actual internet. Also, as you mentioned the USB port on the 3D card, I'm not exactly clear what functionality this might have - for an iPad would it be charging only or actual audio functionality? Again I'm presuming any connected 2nd computer wouldn't have access to the LIO as a regular interface in tandem with the Mac Mini.
Old 5 days ago
  #1978
Gear Maniac
This thread grew so long, can anyone maybe tell me about the 3D DSP performance, can you easily put a channel strip + compressor + gate on 16+ channels with then new hardware?
Old 5 days ago
  #1979
Lives for gear
 
b0se's Avatar
Thinking back to this email...

Quote:
Originally Posted by swafford View Post
This came via email today:

Frequently Asked Questions:

What is this audio glory you speak of?

In order to match the features and quality of the TEC Nominated ULN-8 3d, you would literally have to spend:
$5k on a comparable monitor controller
$5k on a comparable 8 channel remote controlled mic-pre
$5k on a comparable A/D converter
$5k on a comparable D/A converter
plus another $3-4k on DSP processing, mixing, interfacing and heavy copper cabling.
That’s $23k+. As an Early Adopter you can can own the ULN-8 for $1995. It’s no contest. And no - neither Apollo nor Antelope is comparable. That said, you will find that many fine analog processor emulations (like UA, Slate, etc.) do benefit remarkably when used with a 3d system.
Big claims :¬)

What's the comparable AD/DA and preamp hardware?
Old 5 days ago
  #1980
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanchez View Post
Thanks Edwin, I actually have a Belkin hub connected to the Mac Mini by lightning cable and I still have free USB and an ethernet port on there. Presuming I would be better connecting the LIO to the ethernet on the Mini and using the one on the hub for actual internet. Also, as you mentioned the USB port on the 3D card, I'm not exactly clear what functionality this might have - for an iPad would it be charging only or actual audio functionality? Again I'm presuming any connected 2nd computer wouldn't have access to the LIO as a regular interface in tandem with the Mac Mini.
From Ed Abbott:

On an MHLinked 3d box, the USB port on the back panel can stream audio to and from external devices, slaved to the MHLink Domain, fully routable in both directions from the Console3d Mixer. This feature is called the MHLink “Satellite Computer Port” (or “SCP”). Computers which support the UAC2 specification for audio transport (pretty much any USB-2 compliant host device - Mac, PC or Linux) can be connected directly via USB without the need of a driver or special adapter cable.

You can also connect the USB port of a Mac running it’s own Console3d Domain to the USB port of a 3d MIO on another Macs Domain. To avoid conflicts between the two instances of Console3d trying to control the same 3d box, you must set the “Slave” Mac Console to ignore the USB port by setting Preferences: Discovery: “MIOConsole3d Ignores USB:” to “Always”
If you don’t, you’ll lock up the 3d box and crash one or both Consoles
<3d_Prefs_Discovery_SCP_slave_mode.png>


You can configure the USB port of any connected 3d box by “right-clicking” or “control-clicking” its “Unit Status Display” box in the Status Pane,

<3d_Status_Pane_Set_USB_Channels.png>

and selecting “Set Number of Channels for USB…”. This will open the “USB I/O Configuration” window:

The box model and serial number are displayed in the header at the top. Below the header are pull-down menus from which to independently set the number of Input and Output channels available at that USB port. This allows you to trade off USB channel count for higher sample rates. “Maximum USB S/R:” will reflect the highest supported sample rate based on your channel count selections:

• 8-12 channels works up to 4x rates (44.1k - 192k)
• 8-24 channels works up to 2x rates (44.1k - 96k)
• 8-48 channels works only for 1x sample rates (44.1k - 48k)

<3d_Status_Pane_USB_IO_Configs.png>
USB I/O port channel configurations remain persistent to that unit when powered down and when removed from the Domain. This lets you pre-configure a 3d box for use on a PC or Linux box without the Console3d application. In the current iteration of the software, this is both very cool, and potentially very crazy-making.

The trick here is, you have to be aware that the available sample rates to the new computer will be limited by the number of USB I/O port channels you set. So if you set the box up with more than 24 channels either in or out, the new USB host PC (or Mac, or whatever) will only be able to set it to 44.1 or 48kHz.

(This is what I thought may have happened to Jason, cuz it happened to me recently - I had forgotten I had a box set up with 32 in & 32 out, so it would only let me set the sample rate to 44.1 and 48k.)


In all cases, the MIOConsole3d application maintains total control over all 3d units which appear in the Status Pane. Domain sample rate and I/O channel count, and the USB I/O channel for each box are exclusively controlled from the Console3d System Status Pane. Changing USB I/O channel allocations and Domain sample rate settings will trigger a reset of the USB port, and may (probably) require resetting your audio driver connection on the external “Satellite Computer Port” device.

Connecting an Apple tablet or smartphone to 3d USB requires a ‘Lightning to USB Camera Adapter’ or it's equivalent. Android users would need a “USB On-The-Go”-compatible cable or adapter. Both of these solutions enable ‘USB Embedded Host Mode’ in your phone or tablet, which is necessary to communicate with the 3d USB port. These adapters are commonly used to connect digital cameras, USB flash drives, mice and key- boards to your Android or Apple portable device.

3d USB ports aren’t USB hosts, so you can’t just hook up a USB DAC or mic - only smart-devices that support ‘USB Embedded Host Mode’ will work.

A lot of this is untried ground. I’ve gotten audio out of Macs as old as a Superdrive G4-733 running Tiger, but it was all glitchy. I think a lot of it has to do with the age of the computer and the OS. Even my iPhone 6s can be a bit quirky - once it works it’s fine all day, but sometimes it takes a couple of USB or audio device resets at the phone to get it stable.
The good news is it’s been perfectly stable with 2011-2012 Mac Mini i5s and i7s - probably anything later than 2010 and running Mountain Lion should be fine.
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