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Keyscape pianos sound terrible
Old 18th April 2018
  #1
Here for the gear
 

Keyscape pianos sound terrible

Does anyone else agree that the pianos on keyscape are terrible? I was expecting to be blown away like I was with Omnisphere and Trillian, but honestly keyscape has been one of the worst software instruments that i've purchased. I haven't thoroughly tested the keyboards, but the pianos, even their main C7 grand piano sound fake OOTB.

Unless I do heavy EQ'ing, effects, mixing on my end, the pianos are completely unusable. Has anybody else noticed this?
Old 18th April 2018
  #2
Gear Maniac
 
keepitsimple's Avatar
 

I would suggest adjusting the velocity curve for your keyboard controller, it makes a drastic difference in both the sound and response. Their C7 piano is very nice, has a lot of body and warmth IMO.

As for their keyboards, i think they're the best in software. I don't use anything else anymore.
Old 18th April 2018
  #3
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I don't think they are the best but there is a great variety there. I wouldn't venture to say which ones are "best" per se, but it depends what you are going for. There are better Rhodes to my ear and better grands overall but I find plenty of uses for keyscape and the keyscape creative pack regardless.
Old 23rd April 2018
  #4
Here for the gear
 

You're right. I wanted that C7 to blow my socks off, but it's just mediocre. I've yet to find anything better than the Ravenscroft 275. But even that needs some layering with other samples that bring out the low end and enhance the mids ...for my taste, anyway.
Old 23rd April 2018
  #5
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The C7 sounds a little suspect by itself in comparison to some of the great solo pianos ( like the Ravenscroft) but try it in a track and you'll see the value. It's made to live in that space.
The other standout use is the David Foster piano/Rhodes layer.

And I couldn't disagree more strongly with the comment on the Rhodes. I dragged my full Dyno-My-Piano modded beast around the country for years and it lives quietly in my studio now. Keyscape gives me the only other color I ever gave a crap about - the Eddy Reynolds modded piano that was on everything that came out of LA, including the perfect effects (if you wish). And it'll do a glitter top MK1. Hard to ask for more.

I agree about the velocity scaling. Take a few minutes to match your setup and touch properly. It may make a real difference in your opinion.
Old 23rd April 2018
  #6
Keyscape is sonicaly beaten by numerous developers, Acousticsamples, Synthogy, Ravenscroft. Keyscape is very useful for effects, primary in movies. But as standalone instruments (piano, e-piano) is pretty useless.
Old 12th June 2019
  #7
I 100 percent disagree. I think it's one of the best sounding libraries available.
Old 12th June 2019
  #8
Here for the gear
Man I have to strongly disagree!! The C7 is the best sampled grand I’ve ever heard. There isn’t a mediocre sound on there to my ears ... Not hard to hear the time and effort that went into making this library ... I think it’s stellar!
Old 12th June 2019
  #9
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I only use it for Rhodes, Wurly and the other off the wall keys - not for pianos. I also have other Rhodes/Wurly VIs, but Keyscape is so very, very good. I use Ravenscroft 275 with a Kawai VPC1 controller for piano and that does it for me, and I have to say that for my tastes Keyscape pianos don't compete, but are worth having. Just my 2P.
Old 12th June 2019
  #10
Gear Head
 
Jim Vee's Avatar
 

I was disappointed as well, but I’ve never been totally satisfied with any fake instruments. Always seems to be something missing.
But since I use Custom built PCs live I’ve got plenty of IPC so I started stacking Keyscape with PianoTeq.
I’ve even got 3 way Clavinets by adding Zebra2 BPF tones to PTeq and Omni.

I couldn’t be happier.
My bassist has an SVT Stack, Mesa Boogie Tube Stack on Guitar, and loud ass drums and vocals.
Needed a bigger sound so layering works really well for me.

On PianoTeq it has a great meaty sound, but the attacks are PhysMod and mushy. Sampled Keyscape sounds have the attack portions lacking on PTeq.
Try it out.

At least I can hit 50% on my CPU in Task Manager now.

The EPianos in Keyscape are fantastic layered with Canterbury Rhodes, Or Pianoteq.
Since I started using them I retired my FS1r which is the deadliest FM Piano module available.
Old 12th June 2019
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Vee View Post
I was disappointed as well, but I’ve never been totally satisfied with any fake instruments. Always seems to be something missing.
But since I use Custom built PCs live I’ve got plenty of IPC so I started stacking Keyscape with PianoTeq.
I’ve even got 3 way Clavinets by adding Zebra2 BPF tones to PTeq and Omni.

I couldn’t be happier.
My bassist has an SVT Stack, Mesa Boogie Tube Stack on Guitar, and loud ass drums and vocals.
Needed a bigger sound so layering works really well for me.

On PianoTeq it has a great meaty sound, but the attacks are PhysMod and mushy. Sampled Keyscape sounds have the attack portions lacking on PTeq.
Try it out.

At least I can hit 50% on my CPU in Task Manager now.

The EPianos in Keyscape are fantastic layered with Canterbury Rhodes, Or Pianoteq.
Since I started using them I retired my FS1r which is the deadliest FM Piano module available.
I used to stack Pianoteq and sampled pianos and they certainly worked for me too
Old 12th June 2019
  #12
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zephonic's Avatar
I see both sides.

First of all, Keyscape’s playability was terrible in v1, both in responsiveness and velocity sensitivity. That has improved a lot in subsequent versions, and now it’s just fine.

As a player, I prefer the Ravenscroft, but it’s not necessarily about the sound quality; it’s how it feels and plays, I can do what I do on an acoustic and it’s gonna come out pretty much the same.

Keyscape doesn’t feel quite as natural for involved passages, but it has certain presets that sound beyond great and are production-ready. For me, Keyscape is the first I’d grab for a beautiful pop ballad (think David Foster etc.), a very rich sound with a lot of depth, and no need to tweak a lot.

If I need to play a jazz solo or something like that, I may grab the VILabs stuff first, as it is more of a player thing.

So, as a producer, I’d pick Keyscape, as a player, I’d pick Ravenscroft.

Just my $0.02, YMMV etc.
Old 13th June 2019
  #13
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by djx611 View Post
Does anyone else agree that the pianos on keyscape are terrible? I was expecting to be blown away like I was with Omnisphere and Trillian, but honestly keyscape has been one of the worst software instruments that i've purchased. I haven't thoroughly tested the keyboards, but the pianos, even their main C7 grand piano sound fake OOTB.

Unless I do heavy EQ'ing, effects, mixing on my end, the pianos are completely unusable. Has anybody else noticed this?
I disagree 100% If you've heard better sounds than that Id like for you to tell me what those are.

And its even better if you have the Keyscape Creative library, nothing sounds better!
Old 13th June 2019
  #14
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ionian's Avatar
The C7 is definitely sub par. There's some really bad and obvious resonances in the bass area, that once you hear them, you'll never not hear them and they'll make the piano unusable.

I reached out to them on another forum and provided audio examples of the resonances and how loud they were and obtrusive. I was hoping it was something they could fix. I got a somewhat nasty reply where I was pretty much told that the C7 in Keyscape is in a famous studio used by rock stars. If it's good enough for them, then it's good enough for keyscape.

So what? So you guys can't hear sh!tty resonances. Not my problem.

I lost all interest in the library after that. It's one thing that their ears are shot, it's another when they absolutely refuse to acknowledge it. I don't need to pay for their bad decisions. There's plenty of developers out there who actually can hear, and make a quality product.

For pianos, Garritan CFX is probably one of the most amazing I've heard and the only sampled piano or piano VST I've ever heard that has dimensionality. Art Vista Supergrand is another amazing one. Noire from Native Instruments sounds pretty good as well.
Old 13th June 2019
  #15
Keyscape is great for everything it contains EXCEPT the grand piano. Though the piano is pretty stable in live situations, that's one good thing about it.
Old 13th June 2019
  #16
The thing is all the other libraries are just acoustic pianos whereas keyscape has incredible sounding libraries of all sorts. I have played many many vst pianos and eps, Rhodes, etc
I think the quality is top notch
No weird resonances and if I didn't like the way something sounded I would just eq it. Simple.
The only gripes have with keyscape are there wah pedals and effects. They aren't great.... Also I think they should update the library at least give us some killer organ sounds.
Old 13th June 2019
  #17
Gear Maniac
 
keepitsimple's Avatar
 

I know this thread is about Keyscape but i have to say this: What's good or bad is subjective to everyone when it comes to piano libraries and it gets even worse than "subjective" when you start expecting perfection in both playability AND production. Very few pianos can fill both gaps. Actually for me, as of now, there's only one piano that fills both gaps (You will find out which one from the lists below).

I'm not going to list how many piano libraries i have because i have a LOT. But what i'll do is make lists that describe how i label my piano libraries and how i use them.

List 1: The playability workhorses. The stunt actors that do all the real hard work. These feel the most responsive under my fingers. They also don't stand in the way of my technique (without sounding too freakin elitist). Just like a real acoustic grand, what your fingers give them they will return to you in spades. Of course, what you're using as a controller plays a major role in this as well, but that's a different subject.

List 2: The front shelf to show to the rest of the world. The actors who get paid the big bucks. Those are the ones i would use in a recording which i'm planning to release to the public. They sound the most realistic to my ears when put to test on every imaginable playback source (iphone, laptop speakers, car audio, earphones, headphones, PA system etc..).

List 3: I call this the "there's something special about this piano" list. Those are the pianos that hit a certain "chord" with me when i play them and thus inspire me. Some of them might be "limited" in certain playability areas OR might leave something to be desired when exposed in a solo context OR might have some problem areas in certain registers of the keyboard. At the end of the day, I DON'T CARE because i simply enjoy playing them.

Now please note that what i'm going to include in those lists is the result of major liquidation/personal shootouts. In other words, i'm only listing my cream of the crop in every list.

So here it goes.

List 1: VSL CFX, Ravenscroft, Garritan CFX, Pianoteq.

List 2: VSL CFX, Keyscape, Ivory ACD, Art Vista Virtual Grand 3.

List 3: Ravenscroft, Keyscape.


At the end of the day, i'm going to state the obvious here: This is only based on my subjective opinion and experience!

Last edited by keepitsimple; 13th June 2019 at 09:31 AM.. Reason: Forgot to add a piano to list 2
Old 13th June 2019
  #18
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zephonic's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ionian View Post
The C7 is definitely sub par. There's some really bad and obvious resonances in the bass area, that once you hear them, you'll never not hear them and they'll make the piano unusable.

I don’t know about that, Frank. You need to go through the presets. There’s a lot of good piano stuff in there. Just not the raw, pure thing. It’s not for that. But a lot of the “produced” stuff is ready-made and classy sounding. However, if it’s too slick and commercial for you, I get that. It’s definitely very “LA”!
Old 13th June 2019
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dallon426 View Post
give us some killer organ sounds.
This would be sooo good - I still don't have a VI that I'd be as happy with as my old Nord Stage 2 88.
Old 13th June 2019
  #20
Gear Maniac
 
Progger's Avatar
@ keepitsimple -- that is an extremely useful and well-thought-out post. Thank you!

I've been curious about this thread because I'm definitely in the "Keyscape pianos do NOT sound terrible" camp, and in fact I love them. I've been using Keyscape pianos/EPs/Roland-esque digital EPs as well as the hybrid Keyscape/Omnisphere patches for the last few film and television projects I've done, as well as writing for my own group, and I've been very happy with everything. I do use some EQ, compression, and sometimes light saturation in the mix, but that's to be expected.

As with everything, though, it's all quite subjective, and what works for my ears will not work for someone else's, inevitably. If I get bored with Keyscape's pianos I'll likely try the Ravenscroft, it looks great.
Old 13th June 2019
  #21
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by keepitsimple View Post
I'm not going to list how many piano libraries i have because i have a LOT. But what i'll do is make lists that describe how i label my piano libraries and how i use them.
Thanks for this post. What kind of music are you typically playing in list 1?

Are there any major piano libraries you haven't tried but would like to?
Quote:
Originally Posted by keepitsimple View Post
Of course, what you're using as a controller plays a major role in this as well, but that's a different subject.
Any favourite controllers?
Old 13th June 2019
  #22
Gear Maniac
 
keepitsimple's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by vanallen View Post
Thanks for this post. What kind of music are you typically playing in list 1?

Are there any major piano libraries you haven't tried but would like to?

Any favourite controllers?
- I compose my own music. I'm going to have to pm you an example because that's the only way to describe it. I would say it's a mixture of Chick Corea and Aziza Mustafa Zadeh (if you don't know who she is, do yourself a favor and find her on Youtube, you won't regret it).

- The one major library that i haven't tried yet is the VSL Steinway. It will have to hold for now because i'm shopping for a new stage piano!

- Honestly, i'm not too picky about controllers hence i was trained classically on acoustics and i feel i can adjust to anything, as long as it's fully weighted and has good enough sensors. I like the Roland PHA-50 action (FP-90, RD-2000), the new Casio action on the new Casio Privia PXS series and the RHIII action on the older kawai digital pianos (ES8, MP7SE). I also liked the newer Fatar action used on the Dexibell S9 when i tried it.
Old 13th June 2019
  #23
Controllers I am fond of are the new studiologic so 88 controllers. They are fantastic and fantastically priced. They nailed it with that.
Old 13th June 2019
  #24
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by keepitsimple View Post
- I compose my own music. I'm going to have to pm you an example because that's the only way to describe it. I would say it's a mixture of Chick Corea and Aziza Mustafa Zadeh
Thanks @ keepitsimple . I instantly recognized your playing as I had watched a few of your videos recently, somehow.

Fantastic playing as we see here.



Old 13th June 2019
  #25
Gear Maniac
 
keepitsimple's Avatar
 

Thanks Vanallen
Old 14th June 2019
  #26
Tui
Gear Guru
 
Tui's Avatar


KEYSCAPE: Otmaro Ruiz - Arabesque

FEATURED PATCH: LA Custom C7 Grand "Classical"
Old 14th June 2019
  #27
Gear Maniac
 
Progger's Avatar
MAN, Otmaro Ruiz is one of the baddest dudes alive, I swear. This is a great video, thanks for sharing it, I didn't know it existed! His playing on the John McLaughlin album "Heart of Things: Live in Paris" still blows my mind. Jim Beard is on the studio version of that album, similarly awesome, but Otmaro crushes it on the live one. Pretty sure that was all on '90s Yamaha boards, though... WAY before Keyscape... Persing was probably still at Roland then, I guess.
Old 15th June 2019
  #28
Gear Addict
 
Jay Asher's Avatar
 

For whatever value you place on this or do not (and I don't own Keyscape, so I have no dog in the hunt), one of my Logic clients is Steve Porcaro of Toto and he is using the Keyscape C7 a lot.
Old 15th June 2019
  #29
Gear Head
 
Jim Vee's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Asher View Post
For whatever value you place on this or do not (and I don't own Keyscape, so I have no dog in the hunt), one of my Logic clients is Steve Porcaro of Toto and he is using the Keyscape C7 a lot.
Who Dis?
Old 15th June 2019
  #30
Tui
Gear Guru
 
Tui's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Asher View Post
... one of my Logic clients is Steve Porcaro ...
Lucky you. He's rock royalty.
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