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Keyscape pianos sound terrible
Old 15th June 2019
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Vee View Post
Who Dis?
Africa, Roseanna, Hold The Line
Old 15th June 2019
  #32
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Originally Posted by Tui View Post
Lucky you. He's rock royalty.
He is also a good guy.
Old 15th June 2019
  #33
Tui
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Asher View Post
He is also a good guy.
He must be... He wrote "Human Nature".
Old 17th June 2019
  #34
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I read in Sound on Sound that they used a Keyscape piano in Lewis Capaldi’s ‘Someone You Loved’ record. Sounded pretty good to me!

All up to taste and context though.
Old 17th June 2019
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Asher View Post
Africa, Roseanna, Hold The Line
No I meant, Jay Asher.
Old 17th June 2019
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ionian View Post
The C7 is definitely sub par. There's some really bad and obvious resonances in the bass area, that once you hear them, you'll never not hear them and they'll make the piano unusable.

I reached out to them on another forum and provided audio examples of the resonances and how loud they were and obtrusive. I was hoping it was something they could fix. I got a somewhat nasty reply where I was pretty much told that the C7 in Keyscape is in a famous studio used by rock stars. If it's good enough for them, then it's good enough for keyscape.

So what? So you guys can't hear sh!tty resonances. Not my problem.

I lost all interest in the library after that. It's one thing that their ears are shot, it's another when they absolutely refuse to acknowledge it. I don't need to pay for their bad decisions. There's plenty of developers out there who actually can hear, and make a quality product.

For pianos, Garritan CFX is probably one of the most amazing I've heard and the only sampled piano or piano VST I've ever heard that has dimensionality. Art Vista Supergrand is another amazing one. Noire from Native Instruments sounds pretty good as well.
Real pianos, and all real instruments have resonances. Try less EQ and more IQ.
Old 17th June 2019
  #37
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Old 17th June 2019
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Vee View Post
No I meant, Jay Asher.
Oh

www.jayasher.com
Old 17th June 2019
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rasmus Faber View Post
Keyscape is great for everything it contains EXCEPT the grand piano. Though the piano is pretty stable in live situations, that's one good thing about it.
Completely agree with this. I really like all of the EPs and hybrid keyboards in Keyscape but the C7 sounds like garbage. I've tried it for live use but the sound is just clunky and harsh to my ears. Stable, yeah I guess so but not worth it in my opinion.
Old 18th June 2019
  #40
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If I may say so, as a talentless armchair critic, IMHO Aziza's no Hiromi.

I listened to a bunch of clips from the early '90s through 'til 3 years ago, and I kept hearing the same muscle-memory-driven right-hand action over and over again ad nauseam, 'til I couldn't take it anymore. OTOH, if you wanna hear more-or-less-unfettered / unshackled dexterity and imagination, my gal Hiromi's tough-to-beat. Just sayin'.

EDIT: To be fair 'though, Aziza's a musical gal, and I really appreciate your sharing her with us, keepitsimple.

I ordered Keyscape last year but won't be able to hear it "in-person" for many months yet, unfortunately. I've listened to plenty of demos 'though and my impression is that across-the-board (bad pun, I know), it's impressive.

Yes, the C7 sounds perfect for sitting in mixes and I imagine a bunch of presets tailored for various styles would be on offer. The electrics, to my ears, sound freakin'-sublime. I don't anticipate a future need to buy into any other EP libraries.
Old 18th June 2019
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkey Man View Post
If I may say so, as a talentless armchair critic, IMHO Aziza's no Hiromi.

I listened to a bunch of clips from the early '90s through 'til 3 years ago, and I kept hearing the same muscle-memory-driven right-hand action over and over again ad nauseam, 'til I couldn't take it anymore. OTOH, if you wanna hear more-or-less-unfettered / unshackled dexterity and imagination, my gal Hiromi's tough-to-beat. Just sayin'.

EDIT: To be fair 'though, Aziza's a musical gal, and I really appreciate your sharing her with us, keepitsimple.
Blasphemy, how dare you speak about my queen like that? (joking).

While Aziza was playing with Dave Weckl and John Patitucci, Heromi was still a preteen. From what i remember, Hiromi went to Berklee the year i left (2001). I also wouldn't be surprised if Hiromi grew up looking up to Aziza (just a guess).

But nevermind, i'm biased to say the least!


With Dave Weckl and John Patitucci:




Solo:
Old 18th June 2019
  #42
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I like the acoustic pianos.... but I looooovvveeee the electric pianos.

I'm commenting as a non-pianist who produces hiphop that uses a lot of instruments you'd find in an orchestra.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keepitsimple View Post
Blasphemy, how dare you speak about my queen like that? (joking)...
But nevermind, i'm biased to say the least!
LOL Same here, KIS. Hiromi can do no wrong in my eyes.

I'd heard the other clip but I must say that the one with Dave and John was more like it. Good call, mate.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #44
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I have Eastwest pianos and the mini grand by Air instruments and True Pianos. Don't need anymore, it would be over kill.

I seen the shootouts and pro players were shocked. One guy (joking) said he could put real piano on ebay lol

But l know Eric Persing makes quality stuff.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #45
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanielNMusic View Post
I read in Sound on Sound that they used a Keyscape piano in Lewis Capaldi’s ‘Someone You Loved’ record. Sounded pretty good to me!

All up to taste and context though.
Man that's really good to know, that's one of the songs I have on my recent list of truly heart wrenching songs, with tons of emotion.

That piano sounds absolutely wonderful to me, and so real. And the song is awesome. If that is keyscape, and I do not doubt it - cos it does have the Keyscape signature sound on the recording - not too percussive....unlike VSL CFX which is on the other extreme - very percussive and very little feeling of the soft tones - in most of the demos I've heard. The VSL Synchron pianos sound selected for their beautiful distinct clarity across all notes - which is a good thing for certain kinds of music.

On another note, over a long period, I have come to realise that each piano has its own signature, even pianos from the same model and factory, will sound different, for very good reasons, the million minor variations in their components and their tuning/preparation accumulate to a slightly different result.

Also as someone else has mentioned - the velocity response of the controller (and may I add the default velocity response of the sampled instrument) combines to create something which may need alteration to swing it in the direction you prefer for a specific song - more percussive, less percussive. Like salt add to taste...

We can never have all the pianos we want, so probably best to really get to know he pianos we own, very very well, and learn how to tweak them more in the direction of the sound we want them to deliver in a specific context, if the default sound is not exactly what we want. Each sampled piano will retain a lot of its original tone, no matter how much we tweak it(unless we are doing something pretty extreme to modify it), and if we have the choice, selecting the piano tone that comes closest to our intention is a good 1st step. Nevetherless some tweaks can bring things closer to our intention if we do not have the time, to rifle through a huge piano collection, or have limited choice in our collection of sampled/modelled pianos.

Key methods that have worked for me :

1. Playing/Recording the piano using a patch/tone with less reverb (as MIDI and/or Audio) and then tweaking the patch or audio with more reverb after the fact. Simulating the listening experience of a pianist and an engineer more authentically. A piano player does not hear the room reverb in the same way as the audience/or recording engineer, so trying to play the piano with the final reverb (on it) I discovered does not work so well... (too much air can be distracting when recording).

In this video - you can hear a little about this phenomenon when Stefan is given an extremely reverberated version and he says - he is not used to playing the piano with its sound coming from a distance...

I cannot stress enough the need for the right reverb.

I find that many keyboard players who do their own production tend to mix with a close miked end result which sounds extremely jarring, cos no one listens to piano recordings from that distance, close miking sound is good for the player when recording, so you are not confused when playing, but after recording the player perspective, the piano needs some air - in my opinion that is such an intrinsic part of a pianos sound - the room, and getting it right takes things to another level, I have a plugin chain which I use "live" real time as an aux via sends, to audition many of the sampled/modelled piano demos on Youtube, which are mostly close or mid miked, turns them from somewhat artificial and spiky, to very real believable recorded live instruments.




2. Adjusting velocity response - definitely major. For Windows, there's a fantastic MIDI velocity plugin - VST plugin, by platinumears, no longer available on his website, but you can find the archive here. It was a 32 bit freeware and still is - very remarkable.

Described here

https://web.archive.org/web/20180228...tycurvesm.html

Download from here

https://app.box.com/s/c3iruns5ij

Superb plugin that is pretty flexible, and rather than learning or needing to tweak velocity in different ways in different piano plugins, as well as in your controller (i.e a compound approach), one can simply place this Velocity Curve plugin in front of the specific VSTi piano to achieve a very unique setting for that patch/sound, which is also saved with the project, and this way, you tweak MIDI velocity curves in only one place.

It also comes with some excellent presets. Infinitely modifiable.





3. After the fact, I've also had some success with using transient processors, on the audio to modify the attack and release, to soften or harden the tone, of the attack to taste.

4. Of course EQ...and compression.., and its cousins - saturation and distortion as appropriate.

Last edited by kodebode; 4 weeks ago at 11:37 AM..
Old 4 weeks ago
  #46
Quote:
Originally Posted by keepitsimple View Post
Blasphemy, how dare you speak about my queen like that? (joking).

While Aziza was playing with Dave Weckl and John Patitucci, Heromi was still a preteen. From what i remember, Hiromi went to Berklee the year i left (2001). I also wouldn't be surprised if Hiromi grew up looking up to Aziza (just a guess).

But nevermind, i'm biased to say the least!


With Dave Weckl and John Patitucci:




Solo:
Never heard of Aziza until this thread. As one who loves Hiromi's abilitiies and compositions/collaborations dearly, I also love Aziza - she's a gem from what I have just heard.

I think each one of us infuses our DNA to music, our temperament, likes/dislikes and we are so blessed to live in a world with such varied talent - all of extremely high standards, so no need to compare. Apples and Oranges - all excellent fruits.

Aziza and Hiromi each bring something special to enhance our experience of life and all the others too - Chick, Herbie. and I'm sure so do you. I love your music. - intricate. heartfelt
Old 4 weeks ago
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kodebode View Post
Never heard of Aziza until this thread. As one who loves Hiromi's abilitiies and compositions/collaborations dearly, I also love Aziza - she's a gem from what I have just heard.

I think each one of us infuses our DNA to music, our temperament, likes/dislikes and we are so blessed to live in a world with such varied talent - all of extremely high standards, so no need to compare. Apples and Oranges - all excellent fruits.

Aziza and Hiromi each bring something special to enhance our experience of life and all the others too - Chick, Herbie. and I'm sure so do you. I love your music. - intricate. heartfelt
Glad you like Aziza. I agree with everything you said, we're lucky to have such various "sources" of inspiration, regardless of what the purpose of that inspiration is for.

Aziza, Hiromi, Chick, Herbie all great. I would suggest starting with her album "Always" (with Weckl and Patitucci) and "Dance of Fire" (Omar Hakim, Al Di Meola). Those were what got me personally hooked to her music in the first place.

And i truly appreciate the compliment!
Old 4 weeks ago
  #48
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Never played Keyscape. But I'm more than happy with Ivory. I have the Italian and Studio Grands and they handle just about anything I can throw at them. They play very well, especially since I upgraded my old P-90 to a CP-33 which does half pedaling. I've got tons of great grand pianos at work (24 Steinway (from model A - D) and a C7). Ivory more than holds its own against them.

For other keys (Rhodes, Wurlie and Clav) I still use the venerable Scarbee sample set. They sound and play more realistic than any other offering out there. IMO
Old 4 weeks ago
  #49
Scarbaree is lacking depth and breath, I think. I also much prefer keyscape. I haven't played acoustic samples yet and I would love to demo them. However, they don't offer any demos :/
Old 3 weeks ago
  #50
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I like keyscape C7 sound.My favourite virtual piano is Native Instruments' The Grandeur.I like it's low resonance.
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