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Any Waves plugins worth buying?
Old 11th September 2020
  #601
Gear Guru
 
monkeyxx's Avatar
The dongusus get even bigger every time this line of talk continues, pretty soon they will be towering over the sky, raining hell upon all of the world.
Old 12th September 2020
  #602
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Only plugin worth buying of waves is the one that uninstalls them all from your hard drive except omnichannel.
Old 12th September 2020
  #603
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Quote:
Originally Posted by claudedefaren View Post
Both of your egos want to be viewed by everyone here as the one that is "right" ...

But nobody here cares, so please stop
Sorry, but right is right and wrong is wrong, no ego about it. If someone tells you and others on a math forum that 2 plus 2 equals 5, that needs to be pointed out as wrong because of what that forum is.
People come to GS to learn. The original poster of the sentence clarified and that was good enough, but if someone reads the post again and tries to say something that points out they didn't really understand the meaning then there is nothing wrong with explaining it.

So you saying it has anything to do with ego implies there is no right or wrong and there simply is a right and wrong. The same tactic has been attempted several times now. They simply try to say that if the mixer thinks of not using the plug FOR SOME OTHER REASON than that it is popular alone, that this covers the only avoiding it ONLY BECAUSE IT IS POPULAR. There is simply never a case where you bring your project DOWNHILL, MAKE IT WORSE, because what you truly feel makes it better is popular. That would never be correct and there is no ego about it.
Old 12th September 2020
  #604
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by trevon View Post
Only plugin worth buying of waves is the one that uninstalls them all from your hard drive except omnichannel.
Except Pie comp
Redd desk,
TG 12345
Rcomp
Rbass
Vocal rider
Bass rider
Dbx160
AR Chambers
AR plates
H verb
J37
Manny M verb
AR saturation
L2
Guitar pedals

Yeah, except those and several more I could think of.
Old 12th September 2020
  #605
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffguitar View Post
Except Pie comp
Redd desk,
TG 12345
Rcomp
Rbass
Vocal rider
Bass rider
Dbx160
AR Chambers
AR plates
H verb
J37
Manny M verb
AR saturation
L2
Guitar pedals

Yeah, except those and several more I could think of.
How strongly you defend the waves software !!!!, ... Not only in this thread, but also in the thread "The Ultimate Plugin Analysis Thread", anyone would say that you receive commission from waves.
We already know that you love waves software, you have shown it in all the posts you have put, but let there be users who say the opposite too, do not monopolize every non-favorable answer to waves, to say the opposite, your attitude It is the typical one of a troll, they have already told you in another thread.
Old 12th September 2020
  #606
Gear Addict
 
Durk Diggler's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcanicos View Post
anyone would say that you receive commission from waves.
Anyone can say and assume anything but that does not mean they know what they are saying. Right?
Old 12th September 2020
  #607
Quote:
Originally Posted by Durk Diggler View Post
Anyone can say and assume anything but that does not mean they know what they are saying. Right?
That's right, but please don't be offended, it's just a sarcastic way of speaking, it's not a statement.
Old 12th September 2020
  #608
Gear Addict
 
Durk Diggler's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcanicos View Post
That's right, but please don't be offended, it's just a sarcastic way of speaking, it's not a statement.
I have already called the police and told them about you. Sorry.
Old 12th September 2020
  #609
Quote:
Originally Posted by Durk Diggler View Post
I have already called the police and told them about you. Sorry.
LOL
Old 12th September 2020
  #610
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffguitar View Post
The sentence is SPECIFICALLY SAYING, he would choose not to use a plug because and ONLY BECAUSE of its popularity. You are adding that he may have other favorites. Once he has ANOTHER REASON for looking for or choosing another tool, THAT THEN IS LEGIT. His sentence, ALLOWS for him to HURT HIS PROJECT BY CHOOSING NOT TO USE THE TOOL HE THINKS SOUNDS BEST ONLY, ONLY ONLY ONLY BECAUSE IT IS POPULAR.

THERE IS NO escaping what the sentence ALLOWS FOR, and not using what you know sounds best to you only because it happens to be popular is NEVER CORRECT. You have added reasons, the sentence ALLOWS FOR A CHOICE WITH NO REASONS OTHER THAN POPULARITY EVEN IF THE MIXER THINKS NOTHING ELSE SOUNDS BETTER, NOTHING, NOT EVEN EQUAL.. SO THERE IS ZERO way to avoid this in the sentence, ZERO..
Some of us are actually interested in the topic of the thread. Can you guys take this offline?
Old 12th September 2020
  #611
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pamplemousse View Post
Some of us are actually interested in the topic of the thread. Can you guys take this offline?
Come now, no one mentioned anything in the last few posts, and before that couple it had been a week or more. You bringing it up seems like an attempt to keep it going. So we'll see. The debate has been settled, no need to mention it any further.
Old 12th September 2020
  #612
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcanicos View Post
How strongly you defend the waves software !!!!, ... Not only in this thread, but also in the thread "The Ultimate Plugin Analysis Thread", anyone would say that you receive commission from waves.
We already know that you love waves software, you have shown it in all the posts you have put, but let there be users who say the opposite too, do not monopolize every non-favorable answer to waves, to say the opposite, your attitude It is the typical one of a troll, they have already told you in another thread.
In the other thread you mention I talk about SPL Iron more than any plug. In the post I responded to the statement was giving as fact. I'll check back to the post, but I believe the post said the only good plug Waves had was getting them off the computer. It was clearly meant as not a reasonable opinion but as a silly slam at Waves paired as FACT instead of opinion. It was the post I responded to that was totally trollish.
Old 12th September 2020
  #613
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffguitar View Post
In the other thread you mention I talk about SPL Iron more than any plug. In the post I responded to the statement was giving as fact. I'll check back to the post, but I believe the post said the only good plug Waves had was getting them off the computer. It was clearly meant as not a reasonable opinion but as a silly slam at Waves paired as FACT instead of opinion. It was the post I responded to that was totally trollish.
Here is the post I responded to.

"Only plugin worth buying of waves is the one that uninstalls them all from your hard drive except Omnichannel."

Now tell me which, this or my response looks more trollish?. I think it is obviously the one quoted.

I can show you MANY reasonable, non-trollish responses in this thread where people who don't feel Waves plugs are for them. I'll give you an example in general of a non-trollish response against Waves that NO ONE would see as trollish or in need of a response to call out the troll.

"I used to use a few Waves plugs but I didn't like the WUP situation. There are many decent Waves plugs but I found alternatives in other companies offerings and brought my purchasing from Waves to and end."

You see, there are many many reasonable responses like that one in this thread that no one felt a need to respond to because they are not trollish.

CLEARLY the post I responded to was a trollish post and actually ridiculous. Waves clearly has many good plugs that are DEMONSTRABLY as good as anything out their to any reasonable person with a set of good ears.

Anyone who claims that say, the Redd plugs are somehow world's away from other emulations is just being ridiculous and this is obvious. You may not prefer that kind of sound, but many others do. Go look at Clay Blair at Boulevard sound on YT and listen to his Beatles tracks and tell me that the Redd plug is somehow far below the standard of other pre emulations.

Go listen to H verb, Abbey Road Chambers and plates and tell me they are not some of the best verbs you can get in the box. They are cpu hoggs but their awesome sound is why they are.

So nope, the post I responded to was the troll post, not my response.
Old 12th September 2020
  #614
Gear Guru
I know plenty of pros that use Waves because they are legacy plug ins across different rooms in many projects.

Snotty attitudes aside. They work.
Old 12th September 2020
  #615
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffguitar View Post
Except Pie comp
Redd desk,
TG 12345
Rcomp
Rbass
Vocal rider
Bass rider
Dbx160
AR Chambers
AR plates
H verb
J37
Manny M verb
AR saturation
L2
Guitar pedals

Yeah, except those and several more I could think of.

Yeah, except these too
F6
Metafilter
Brauer Motion
SSL Bus Comp
CLA76
L3LL
Q10
Codex
Flow Motion
Audio Track
PRS V9
Puigchild 670
NS1

and a bunch more I thought of...

Last edited by jzero; 12th September 2020 at 05:24 PM.. Reason: English is hard
Old 12th September 2020
  #616
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jzero View Post
Yeah, except these too
F6
Metafilter
Brauer Motion
SSL Bus Comp
CLA76
L3LL
Q10
Codex
Flow Motion
Audio Track
PRS V9
Puigchild 670
NS1

and a bunch more I thought of...
Yep, plenty of fine Waves plugs, and many good ones I have never tried yet I'm sure.

I have plenty of good plugs from PA and others like Overloud but I believe no company has as many good plugs as Waves. I'm not saying Waves has a higher percentage of good plugs, it's just that they make so many that there are bound to be quite a few good ones.
Old 13th September 2020
  #617
From a value perspective.

1. The Waves Gold Bundle, is a good way to get into what I would call the classics. All the basics, eq, compression, reverb, chorus, flanger, and all kinds of modulation, etc, with a few Renaissance plugins included..I think the latest version of the Gold bundle comes with some of the more recent dynamics plugins.

Probably the best features are their stability and documentation. Lots of information in their docs, and all accessible in a consistent manner from every plugin, via a simple click which opens up the relevant doc in .pdf format.

And typically the Waves plugins will get you to a decent result.

What I consider is that there's a 100% probability that every major track you listen to that is a commercial hit, has at least one waves plugin used somewhere. Replicating that commercial pop sound, if that's what you are going for, just get Waves Gold or one of the larger bundles and you have a decent foundation. I bought my Waves Gold several years ago for about $200 IIRC, and thought it was a bargain, cos I remember when the same collection of plugins cost well over $1,100, and for me it was such a joy to finally own legitimately plugins that I had always dreamed of having.

Within the Waves Gold bundle is a staple - L1 Limiter, which has a few variants as separate plugins. This was once upon a time, the defacto limiter for many pop anthems. Everyone used it back in the day, when limiting transitioned from analog limiters to digital limiters, as befits a digital format for audio.

When you want that traditional pop sound. Just slap this on.

Same with the reverbs, a lot of that signature sound we hear on records, was done with the waves reverbs. May not sound like a Lexicon hardware reverb, but its decent enough.

2. The Shepps Omni Channel is also excellent value. Probably the best channel oriented plugin with a great selection of the kinds of processors you'd find on a top quality hardware console mixer, pretty much everything you need to point a track in the direction you need, without having to break out the process into multiple plugins. So you get a lot on one screen. I own this, but I hardly use it cos, I end up going back to tweak things using individual plugins that give me a lot more choice and control. We are human, never satisfied. But if I was in a hurry to mix a few tracks really quickly, this is the one I would use.

Strangely as I was writing this, I loaded the Omni Channel, and my DAW Reaper crashed. Very very rarely does such happen, i.e loading a Waves plugin and my DAW crashes. But once I loaded the project again and loaded Omni Channel, it was all fine - My Reaper instance had been running for probably several days or weeks, so I do not think its a Waves issue, most likely some conflict in Windows, especially as I had the PC almost maxed out on RAM.

But this really is a tool for serious mix engineers who mix with their ears, cos alot of the fancy analyzer displays in standalone plugins is not to be found here. e.g Normally my default Gate plugin has graphs that allow me to set the threshold with my eyes rather than just listening alone, kinda quicker to do this, but with Omni Channel, best to use ears, and listen.

Waves put in a lot of their algorithms into this one plugin., CPU utilisation is not excessive and especially if you are working quickly this will get you and acceptable mix. It even has a Limiter, so you can use just one plugin on all channels including your master, and within a few minutes have a finished rough mix. Then when you have time, you can go back to each track and replace with a more detailed or esoteric chain of plugins, if you have the time to do this.

3. Waves Rhapsody Piano, - is my #1 software piano. use this for all my composing, cos keyboards are my only instrument (and the voice). superb value, took a few years for them to sort out some of its challenges, but after I complained vehemently, by version 11, it was ok. When bought at less than $30, which is possible during Waves promotions, outstanding value, not just because it is cheap, compared to any sampled piano at any price it sounds great. It does have a unique sound which like wine can be an acquired taste, but the illusion that the piano is right in front of you is 100% true, you have to learn this piano, like you would a real piano, where each one and every key has its own character. The sampling has retained enough of the quirks and tuning of this piano to keep it realistic. This is not your perfectly tuned workstation piano, No this is like sitting down at an intimate grand piano. You forget about the sampling and concentrate on the emotion in your music. Very responsive, pretty dynamic in volume as well as , like a real instrument.

A piano you can play for hours and it never gets artificial, never gets to the point of repetitiveness that says "Sample". Never, pretty realistic.

But to achieve this - turn off all of the effects, and maybe avoid using compression , and use an external reverb plugin, of your own choosing for the room sound, or mix in one of the room microphones. It comes with 8 microphone positions and you can have any three triggered simultaneously and adjust their levels and delay each of these individually.

What you end up with is a very powerful authentic sound, that is extremely dynamic. Needing some work after the recording, to fit into the mix, but is just like recording a real piano, without any processing in the chain... Kinda forces you to play the piano properly without the safety net of a processing chain that forgives your playing inconsistencies.

I do not own an acoustic piano, but this has absolved me of the ambition to own one.

You also need a good way of adjusting the MIDI velocities from your keyboard. Google

There's an amazing plugin - MidiCurve included in the bundle of goodies available here :

https://code.google.com/archive/p/pizmidi/downloads

So much better than the velocity adjustment tool in Waves Rhapsody (which I do not use). and its freeware/Open source.

I literally have this piano turned on for days, weeks and even months without restarting the session, as my practice piano, super stable like a real piano, without the need for retuning. I think its my most valuable plugin, once I got the hang of it. This would have cost a few hundred quid, about a decade ago. Awesome sound, almost too clean, needing to dirty it up during mixing, to sound more like what you hear on pop tracks. If your playing style is heavily polyphonic, this is the piano for you, cos it was so well recorded, it does not get muddy, no matter how many notes you play. Actually encourages you to become a better keyboard player and play more polyphonically and develop more harmonically rich music. I have my Sustain Resonance set to 34 - this is about the only control in the plugin which I use to process the sound. Superb highly useful tool, and enough options to tweak in the plugin, if this is your desire.

I found that this is one piano I can record with and really do not need to EQ, simply by playing it like I want it to sound, I can get a result I need. Choose the right octaves, to deepen or brighten the sound, rather than rely on EQ.

And when tracking or composing or practicing, I do not use amy compression, so I can hear the piano as is.

Some will complain that it does not have release samples. Which I think is true, but nothing that a bit of reverb will not fix. If you play this completely dry, then you notice the lack of release samples, otherwise, not an issue once you add a bit of reverb - you can play staccato with no loss of realism

Sadly it took me a few years to really appreciate this piano, and only after the changes outlined above did its potential come forth. But this is one of the worlds best sampled pianos, when setup properly.

It's not just about a sampled piano, but you get the essence of the specific piano that was sampled, and no other piano, sound like this one. Authentically captured. Your very own Fazioli...
Old 14th September 2020
  #618
The whole Abbey Road bundle is on sale at 197$, I might use a couple of those verbs but overall I think I'm set with "broad vintage eq" and mastering "chains".
Old 15th September 2020
  #619
Quote:
Originally Posted by Usgggg View Post
I don't know if it's been mentioned but Waves Cobalt Saphira is a great saturation tool.

It can be used for a lot of different purposes and it's really flexible if you dig deeper into its functionality.

There's a few plugins like that that I feel people are sleeping on because I seldom see them mentioned.
I got this one a while back, but ended up using it not too often. I bought it for the purpose of using it on a bus, but ended up using it more as a creative/color tool on some channels.
Old 16th September 2020
  #620
Lives for gear
 
GRiFF's Avatar
Waves plugins, if bought at the right time, are so cheap at some point you are bound to be tempted, over the years I've been tempted lots of times and have amassed quite a number. I like having them around, but there are a few things I don't like:

1. Some are particularly DSP heavy - so heavy in fact that I simply cannot run them - Abbey Road Plates & Chambers throws my machine into a tail spin, I have a professional setup more than capable of handling them, but if my session starts glitching, I remove Waves plugins first and its usually the culprit.

2. I'm less than pleased with updates running out and essentially having to pay for them all again 2 years later. Aside from additions to packs, I've yet to see what the benefit of any update is.

3. Sound Quality - they have a sound of their own and I get why some people love them, its just not a sound I look for, they are thinner to my ear and perhaps harsher, but...in a musical way I think.

OK to Good WAVES plugins:

API2500, SSL and V-Comp - I think these are pretty good, but the UAD versions are quite another level.

OmniChannel - I still use because its really convenient, I really like the desser.

HDelay was my goto delay for the last 3 years, although Valhalla Delay has probably put pay to that.

VinylCutter EMU is fun.

F6 EQ is a really decent alternative to Fabfilter PRO Q if cost is an issue.

For me though - I've become more committed to UAD, their plugins are just more alive and responsive to me and puts Waves in the shade.

I think as well, recent releases are just not especially interesting.
Old 16th September 2020
  #621
Lives for gear
 
alibling's Avatar
 

Just recently I got H Delay and I really like it. It's very easy to dial in.

I have the sound toys bundle and echoboy and eboy Jr are great. primal tap is great for special delays, crazy ping pong or special fx vocal delays. Repeater have some nice sounds too, but h delay is somehow faster for me, to dial sth usable in
Old 17th September 2020
  #622
Lives for gear
 
razorboy's Avatar
 

I found the Wikipedia entry for 'Waves Audio' to be an interesting read.
Old 19th September 2020
  #623
Lives for gear
 
GRiFF's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by OK1 View Post
From a value perspective.

1. The Waves Gold Bundle, is a good way to get into what I would call the classics. All the basics, eq, compression, reverb, chorus, flanger, and all kinds of modulation, etc, with a few Renaissance plugins included..I think the latest version of the Gold bundle comes with some of the more recent dynamics plugins.

Probably the best features are their stability and documentation. Lots of information in their docs, and all accessible in a consistent manner from every plugin, via a simple click which opens up the relevant doc in .pdf format.

And typically the Waves plugins will get you to a decent result.

What I consider is that there's a 100% probability that every major track you listen to that is a commercial hit, has at least one waves plugin used somewhere. Replicating that commercial pop sound, if that's what you are going for, just get Waves Gold or one of the larger bundles and you have a decent foundation. I bought my Waves Gold several years ago for about $200 IIRC, and thought it was a bargain, cos I remember when the same collection of plugins cost well over $1,100, and for me it was such a joy to finally own legitimately plugins that I had always dreamed of having.

Within the Waves Gold bundle is a staple - L1 Limiter, which has a few variants as separate plugins. This was once upon a time, the defacto limiter for many pop anthems. Everyone used it back in the day, when limiting transitioned from analog limiters to digital limiters, as befits a digital format for audio.

When you want that traditional pop sound. Just slap this on.

Same with the reverbs, a lot of that signature sound we hear on records, was done with the waves reverbs. May not sound like a Lexicon hardware reverb, but its decent enough.

2. The Shepps Omni Channel is also excellent value. Probably the best channel oriented plugin with a great selection of the kinds of processors you'd find on a top quality hardware console mixer, pretty much everything you need to point a track in the direction you need, without having to break out the process into multiple plugins. So you get a lot on one screen. I own this, but I hardly use it cos, I end up going back to tweak things using individual plugins that give me a lot more choice and control. We are human, never satisfied. But if I was in a hurry to mix a few tracks really quickly, this is the one I would use.

Strangely as I was writing this, I loaded the Omni Channel, and my DAW Reaper crashed. Very very rarely does such happen, i.e loading a Waves plugin and my DAW crashes. But once I loaded the project again and loaded Omni Channel, it was all fine - My Reaper instance had been running for probably several days or weeks, so I do not think its a Waves issue, most likely some conflict in Windows, especially as I had the PC almost maxed out on RAM.

But this really is a tool for serious mix engineers who mix with their ears, cos alot of the fancy analyzer displays in standalone plugins is not to be found here. e.g Normally my default Gate plugin has graphs that allow me to set the threshold with my eyes rather than just listening alone, kinda quicker to do this, but with Omni Channel, best to use ears, and listen.

Waves put in a lot of their algorithms into this one plugin., CPU utilisation is not excessive and especially if you are working quickly this will get you and acceptable mix. It even has a Limiter, so you can use just one plugin on all channels including your master, and within a few minutes have a finished rough mix. Then when you have time, you can go back to each track and replace with a more detailed or esoteric chain of plugins, if you have the time to do this.

3. Waves Rhapsody Piano, - is my #1 software piano. use this for all my composing, cos keyboards are my only instrument (and the voice). superb value, took a few years for them to sort out some of its challenges, but after I complained vehemently, by version 11, it was ok. When bought at less than $30, which is possible during Waves promotions, outstanding value, not just because it is cheap, compared to any sampled piano at any price it sounds great. It does have a unique sound which like wine can be an acquired taste, but the illusion that the piano is right in front of you is 100% true, you have to learn this piano, like you would a real piano, where each one and every key has its own character. The sampling has retained enough of the quirks and tuning of this piano to keep it realistic. This is not your perfectly tuned workstation piano, No this is like sitting down at an intimate grand piano. You forget about the sampling and concentrate on the emotion in your music. Very responsive, pretty dynamic in volume as well as , like a real instrument.

A piano you can play for hours and it never gets artificial, never gets to the point of repetitiveness that says "Sample". Never, pretty realistic.

But to achieve this - turn off all of the effects, and maybe avoid using compression , and use an external reverb plugin, of your own choosing for the room sound, or mix in one of the room microphones. It comes with 8 microphone positions and you can have any three triggered simultaneously and adjust their levels and delay each of these individually.

What you end up with is a very powerful authentic sound, that is extremely dynamic. Needing some work after the recording, to fit into the mix, but is just like recording a real piano, without any processing in the chain... Kinda forces you to play the piano properly without the safety net of a processing chain that forgives your playing inconsistencies.

I do not own an acoustic piano, but this has absolved me of the ambition to own one.

You also need a good way of adjusting the MIDI velocities from your keyboard. Google

There's an amazing plugin - MidiCurve included in the bundle of goodies available here :

https://code.google.com/archive/p/pizmidi/downloads

So much better than the velocity adjustment tool in Waves Rhapsody (which I do not use). and its freeware/Open source.

I literally have this piano turned on for days, weeks and even months without restarting the session, as my practice piano, super stable like a real piano, without the need for retuning. I think its my most valuable plugin, once I got the hang of it. This would have cost a few hundred quid, about a decade ago. Awesome sound, almost too clean, needing to dirty it up during mixing, to sound more like what you hear on pop tracks. If your playing style is heavily polyphonic, this is the piano for you, cos it was so well recorded, it does not get muddy, no matter how many notes you play. Actually encourages you to become a better keyboard player and play more polyphonically and develop more harmonically rich music. I have my Sustain Resonance set to 34 - this is about the only control in the plugin which I use to process the sound. Superb highly useful tool, and enough options to tweak in the plugin, if this is your desire.

I found that this is one piano I can record with and really do not need to EQ, simply by playing it like I want it to sound, I can get a result I need. Choose the right octaves, to deepen or brighten the sound, rather than rely on EQ.

And when tracking or composing or practicing, I do not use amy compression, so I can hear the piano as is.

Some will complain that it does not have release samples. Which I think is true, but nothing that a bit of reverb will not fix. If you play this completely dry, then you notice the lack of release samples, otherwise, not an issue once you add a bit of reverb - you can play staccato with no loss of realism

Sadly it took me a few years to really appreciate this piano, and only after the changes outlined above did its potential come forth. But this is one of the worlds best sampled pianos, when setup properly.

It's not just about a sampled piano, but you get the essence of the specific piano that was sampled, and no other piano, sound like this one. Authentically captured. Your very own Fazioli...
I completely respect your views but there are some observations I don't agree with, perhaps its a rare experience for other users, but I think that waves code is not as efficient as we have come to expect, on my system I simply cannot run Abbey Chambers or plates, the TG mastering plug was really interesting but its glitchy on my rig. Similarly if you are really connected to your piano choice then ignore me but I tried it and didn't like it at all. Have you ever tried the Fazioli on True Keys I bought this recently after alot of piano auditioning and its lovely. Actually I bought the piano pack which includes a Steinway and a Bechstien, If your curious check it out, If you are a Faz fan you'll certainly appreciate it even if the waves remains your weapon of choice.
Old 20th September 2020
  #624
Gear Maniac
Tbh I didn't read through the whole 20-something pages of this thread, so perhaps this has already been covered, but...

I have bought a handful of Waves plugs on sale for $30 or less and they're good. They work well, they're stable, they're CPU efficient, and they sound good.

But...

I didn't understand how WUP works when I bought them, so I thought they actually only cost the $30 (ok, $29).

Then I got a new Mac laptop with Catalina pre-installed and realized I'd need to pay the WUP to get a version current enough to use on that system. The WUP is more than the original cost of the plugins.

So... I still have them installed on my main studio computer, but I've stopped using them because I need to be able to move sessions between it and my laptop and I'm not willing to buy plugins from Waves that I already bought in order to install them on one of my computers. They're good, but they're not so special that I can't easily get by without them.

TL;DR:
There are many good waves plugins, but if you're going to buy them you should know that it's not actually a purchase like you would make from other developers. It's essentially a subscription, and the subscription fee is not disclosed up front and is entirely up to them to set at the time you have to renew the subscription. That may be a price worth paying if there's a plugin of theirs you particularly want, but it's not worth it to me.
Old 21st September 2020
  #625
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Fleer's Avatar
Well said. As long as Waves play this WUP game I’ll refrain from getting more of their plugins.
Old 21st September 2020
  #626
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greggybud's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by NarxistDan View Post
It's essentially a subscription, and the subscription fee is not disclosed up front
WUP is disclosed. If you mean some type of red letter warning when you are about to purchase a Waves plus such as "Warning: Your $29 purchase you are about to make includes WUP for 1 (one) year." No, there is no such warning. However contrary to what you are writing, it's all available at Waves if you simply look.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NarxistDan View Post
and is entirely up to them to set at the time you have to renew the subscription.
You don't HAVE to renew anything. After WUP expires which is 1 year, your plugs still work. However you won't be eligible for updates or get technical support. Amazing huh? I had some very old Waves plugs running on Windows 10 until I caved because I needed some technical support. It sounds like you have to renew because you have owned them longer than a year and expect them to work on newer OSs?

When I called Waves, and sales knowing what licenses I have, I was given a lot of options. First I could WUP each plug for much less than $29 each so I'm not sure why you are saying WUP costs more than the original plug. However there are instances, especially Black Friday, where the bundle costs considerably less than if you were to WUP the bundle. However call Waves first, because they often have deals to avoid that.

Another option is to take all your plugs and see how many of them are included in a bundle. Wait until the bundle is on sale. Better yet, wait for Black Friday.

Also, unless they have recently changed, if you pay WUP for some individual plugs, that cost will be deducted from the cost of buying a bundle up to iirc, half of that bundle cost.

Bottom line, it's always best to contact Waves and see what they can do.
Old 21st September 2020
  #627
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by greggybud View Post
WUP is disclosed. If you mean some type of red letter warning when you are about to purchase a Waves plus such as "Warning: Your $29 purchase you are about to make includes WUP for 1 (one) year." No, there is no such warning. However contrary to what you are writing, it's all available at Waves if you simply look.
No, I meant exactly what I wrote. The fee is not disclosed. Maybe I'm wrong and there is a page that prospective buyers can see prior to buying a plugin that lists what the WUP cost will be in the future? Perhaps you can link to that page, since it sounds like you're fairly certain it exists?

And I don't think it's at all unreasonable to expect them to make it very clear somewhere in the purchase process that they will not provide support beyond a year and that they will not do basic compatibility upgrades beyond that either, especially given that they're in a market where none of their competitors take this approach. The fact that a company's sh**ty policies are disclosed in their legal terms of service doesn't make those policies any less sh**ty or let them off the hook for informing their customers in a less obtuse way.

Having said that, you're right, I misremembered - the WUP for the $29 plugins is not literally more than the original cost. It's $22.41. Plugins I bought 2 years ago don't work on the current version of Mac OS and I would need to spend more than 2/3 the original purchase price to get a version that does. No other plugin developer is doing that nonsense.

They're welcome to their business model and I'm sure they won't miss my future cheapskate business. It was definitely on me for buying their plugins without fully researching how WUP worked. Perhaps my post here will help someone else make a more informed choice.
Old 21st September 2020
  #628
Gear Maniac
 
hollohe's Avatar
 

Abbey Road Saturator hit 30 today. Picked it up. Knew at some point it was going to go for that price so I waited.
Old 21st September 2020
  #629
Lives for gear
 
64gtoboy's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by hollohe View Post
Abbey Road Saturator hit 30 today. Picked it up. Knew at some point it was going to go for that price so I waited.
I think I got it for that when it debuted
Old 22nd September 2020
  #630
Quote:
Originally Posted by NarxistDan View Post
No, I meant exactly what I wrote. The fee is not disclosed. Maybe I'm wrong and there is a page that prospective buyers can see prior to buying a plugin that lists what the WUP cost will be in the future? Perhaps you can link to that page, since it sounds like you're fairly certain it exists?

And I don't think it's at all unreasonable to expect them to make it very clear somewhere in the purchase process that they will not provide support beyond a year and that they will not do basic compatibility upgrades beyond that either, especially given that they're in a market where none of their competitors take this approach. The fact that a company's sh**ty policies are disclosed in their legal terms of service doesn't make those policies any less sh**ty or let them off the hook for informing their customers in a less obtuse way.

Having said that, you're right, I misremembered - the WUP for the $29 plugins is not literally more than the original cost. It's $22.41. Plugins I bought 2 years ago don't work on the current version of Mac OS and I would need to spend more than 2/3 the original purchase price to get a version that does. No other plugin developer is doing that nonsense.

They're welcome to their business model and I'm sure they won't miss my future cheapskate business. It was definitely on me for buying their plugins without fully researching how WUP worked. Perhaps my post here will help someone else make a more informed choice.
Generally, unless there have been major changes in operating systems, such as the transition from 32 bit to 64 bit CPU's, and related CPU instruction sets, or changes like Apple's where they deprecated 32 bit executables in Catalina, or future anticipated changes such as the transition to Apple Silicon CPU's, most stable Waves plugins, will not need any WUP, for at least 5 years. In many cases, I think one could go 10 years with no need to WUP any plugins, subject to the aforementioned exceptions.

So you may only need to WUP your acquisitions once every 5 to 10 years, I bought Waves Gold bundle at version 9, in 2015 (almost 5 years ago) and I have had no need to WUP, because I am on Windows and have run these plugins on Windows 7, 8, 8.1 and 10, with no issues, once I install them properly. In my case I do not expect to WUP for another 5 years, unless Microsoft does something unanticipated.

I must add though, there was a bug in two virtual instruments which I also acquired in Version 9, in 2017 IIRC, and it took at least 2 years for Waves to sort out these bugs and pretty annoyingly, the only reason I did a WUP for these two virtual sampled pianos, in 2019, was to benefit from these bug fixes, and at least I was able to install the demo's 1st, to check that the bugs had been fixed, before I did the WUP.

If you look at the discounted price of the plugins - about $30 each, the WUP price of about $10 for each of these two plugins may appear steep, but if you look at the full whack price of about $60 for each of these plugins, then the WUP price is not so bad.

It was not a pleasant experience to have to pay up for the WUP, on grounds of principle, but eventually I had to, rather than lose my initial investment in the plugins, and I absolutely love them cos they sound great, especially for the price. Once upon a time, plugins like these cost over $200 each.

So as much as yes we wish Waves would avoid the WUP completely and provide free upgrades, their business model is not as draconian as some of the subscriptions models, which seem to be the only way to use certain plugins like those from Slate Digital - a practice which becomes expensive in the long run, far more expensive than if one buys the plugins outright, like with Waves.

That being said Waves and Slate Digital, and Plugin Alliance all now have both outright buy as well as the option of a subscription model for acquiring the licence to use their plugins.

If you like the plugins you bought, I'd encourage you to take the WUP on the chin and pay up just once, and you may not have to do this again for another 5 years.
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